Here's Why It's Impossible to Compete with Amazon

[MineralMan]

This happened about two weeks ago, in the following order:

1. My sister-in-law gave me a $50 Amazon gift card via email.
2. I went to Amazon.com.
3. I entered the gift card code into my account.
4. I .left the Amazon site, did other things, and thought about what I might spend that $50 on.
5. Later, I went back to Amazon. I searched for "men's hiking boots"
6. The first item on the list of products I saw was a pair of lightweight hiking boots, with the following characteristics:
a. They were made by a manufacturer who also made a pair of running shoes I bought two years ago.
b. The price for the boots was $41.95
c. When I clicked through to the detail page for those boots, I noticed that my size was already selected, as was the color, which was the same as the pair of running shoes I bought previously. FREE shipping was also included.
7. I clicked the Buy Now button. They were just what I was looking for. Amazon knew that ahead of time.
8. On the checkout page, I noticed that the total price, including sales tax, was less than $50, which is what was in my gift card balance.
9. On the same checkout page, was a boxed display of jewelry for Valentine's day. Last Valentine's day, I bought my wife a Sterling Silver Tanzanite necklace on Amazon, after looking at many other pieces of jewelry. Amazon was now showing me a pair of tanzanite earrings, also in sterling, silver in that add-on box. Two weeks before Valentine's day. My wife liked her necklace very much, so it was a no-brainer for me to add the earrings to my order.
10. I won't mention the other things Amazon showed me on that visit. Suffice it to say that they all were relevant to my interests, past purchases, browsing history on Amazon, and my ownership of a Kindle Fire tablet, purchased earlier in the year. I did not add any more items to my cart that day, though, but everything Amazon showed me was something I might have chosen to buy.

Amazon's algorithms know me. They know my habits. They know what types of products I buy. They know my budget. They know what kind of jewelry my wife likes. Amazon customizes its website to suit each person who shows up on their site. Through extensive database records of my activities on their website and algorithms that select what items to display when I land on the site, they create a customized page that doesn't look exactly like the page anyone else sees.

That is why Amazon is the most successful retail company ever. That is why Jeff Bezos is the richest man on the planet. Frankly, that's why so many people continue to shop online regularly at Amazon. It's personalized shopping, designed for your budget, habits, interests, and much much more. That's why Amazon keeps data on every customer - detailed data. That's why my wife said, "Wow! These are a perfect match for that necklace. Smooch!"

That's the new face of retailing. There's no way a smaller company can match that kind of personalization. That's why Amazon continues to grow.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

1. Since I only buy books on Amazon

(I've probably on rare occasion bought other stuff, but nothing comes to mind) I only ever get further book suggestions.

But it's not just Amazon. It's the entire internet. I make LOTS of random searches on topics that momentarily catch my attention, and so of course I keep on getting very oddball (to me) suggestions for things when I go to Google. I just ignore most of them.

[Demovictory9]

20. I go to Amazon book reviews, whether I buy the book there or not, hundreds/thousands of reviews

regarding a book is so helpful.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

93. Yes. I can find the reviews very helpful.

[cagefreesoylentgreen]

136. I buy a lot of used books on AbeBooks

I’ll use Amazon to get the ISBN number and find what I’m looking for on Abe. Sometimes it’s cheaper. A used and long out of print hardback I wanted was going for $40 on Amazon, but I found it for $4 and free shipping on Abe.

[snowybirdie]

2. Agreed

Went to Walmart to look for trays. Couldn't find them and asked a worker there. She didn't speak much English and directed me to dishes. I'm over 75 and was getting tired searching all over the housewares section. Went home, got on Amazon, found hundreds of choices. Ordered what I wanted and it was delivered to my door two days later. So very convenient for folks having trouble getting around and during winter months. Don't like many of their employee practices, but they are beginning to organize. Which is great! P.S. Like my new trays.

[democratisphere]

39. Might want to try Walmart.com which has many products that are not

offered in their brick and mortar stores. Extensive product line with very competitive prices. If all the business goes to Amazon then only Amazon will be left.

[Freddie]

104. I love Jet.com

Owned by Walmart so they have the same stuff plus more. Free shipping for any order $35+, no membership required. They have a house brand (Simply J) coffee that is excellent and less than .50 a pod. When I need anything I look there first before going to Amazon.

[democratisphere]

109. Thanks for the recommendation for Jet.com. I will check it out.

There are many online stores offering great merchandise at competitive prices with free shipping. IMO it is a huge mistake to only shop on Amazon.

[pangaia]

3. Well, I'm going to Amazon right this minute.. to see what I should buy...

Good report MM

[MineralMan]

15. I'm sure Amazon knows. Assuming that you've been there before.

[pangaia]

67. Unfortunately I buy TOO much on Amazon..

Looking this time,...... nothing I would be interested in..
Looks like they goofed.

[dixiegrrrrl]

131. They also set prices according to your spending history.

So you and I might be shown 2 different prices for the same item.

On the upside, I just found out about this:

Amazon Prime Wardrobe

Amazon Prime-exclusive program where you can try before you buy clothes, shoes, jewelry, and accessories up front without charge. You can shop, order, try-on, and buy all from the comfort of your own home.
Just select up to 8 items with a 3-item minimum, and we’ll send your Prime Wardrobe box directly to your door. Once the package is delivered, you have 7 calendar days to try on your items before you’re charged. Returns are easy: simply use the prepaid shipping label included with your order and drop off your package at the nearest UPS location. Prime Wardrobe is included as part of your Prime Membership, so you only pay for what you keep.

For those of us who live hours away from big stores, this is a helpful service.

[PeeJ52]

4. Too bad you didn't shop around. You probably could have saved 20%. You really need to watch prices.

I used to think Amazon had the best prices too, because years ago, they usually did. That's not the case any more. In fact I've found it rarely the case. They have caught on that people are lazy and choosing convenience over cost.

[Adrahil]

6. For some people (like me), convenience is worth a small premium.

I do shop around for large purchases, of course. In 9/10 times the Amazon price is at least as good, and since I'm a Prime customer, shipping is no extra cost, and I get it in two days, usually.

But once in a while, I go another route. Specialty interests are usually the case where I do that (stuff for my specific hobbies, for example).

[Rorey]

8. Which is why I always use a search engine first

You're right in everything you said.

[MineralMan]

10. No, not really. I know how much lightweight hiking boots cost.

In fact, I looked at some at my local Mills Fleet Farm store, where I sometimes buy shoes. Same price range, within a couple of dollars, for similar boots. Amazon wasn't trying to fool me. Instead, it checked my past purchase, saw that I had purchased some athletic shoes a while back and showed me boots by the same manufacturer, figuring that would be relevant to me. It also knew that I had $50 to spend that was a gift, so it showed me boots in that price range, knowing that I'd probably buy them immediately.

Amazon doesn't have to cheat on prices. It sells pretty much everything. It just tries to match products to customers, based on the information it has on past behaviors.

It might seem a little spooky, but it's not really any different than an attentive shoe store employee remembering your previous purchases or looking at the shoes you have on when you walk into the store. Amazon just automates that personal service.

[Ms. Toad]

19. Your assumption about the match between price and gift card is not warranted.

Because I have an Amazon credit card, I nearly always have a gift card balance (because of the cash-back with the card). The price of the items I buy/and or are suggested to me bear little to no relationship to the gift card balance.

In fact - since they already have the money in hand, it is to their benefit to entice you to spend a bit more (new money in & you're likely to spend a bit more since it will seem like a bargain to you - since the $50 is not coming out of your pocket), or not at all (since as long as the card is sitting with a balance they keep that already-paid money in their bank account)

[guillaumeb]

69. Amazon cheats by underpaying workers,

and demanding corporate welfare.

[MineralMan]

70. Minnesota Amazon distribution center workers

Are paid more than Target or Wal-Mart workers and more than most small business retail workers. Check your facts.

[guillaumeb]

72. Whataboutism in action.

You need to do more research into the issue before defending Amazon at DU.

So if one predatory capitalist pays his workers slightly more than other predatory capitalists, should he be awarded a medal?

[MineralMan]

76. Start your own thread.

[guillaumeb]

79. I did.

Imagine what apologetics for predatory capitalism might sound like.

In contrast, there is this:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211831587

[MineralMan]

81. Good.

[MineralMan]

78. And small business retail worker pay?

Really?

[guillaumeb]

80. Apologetics for Bezos?

Really?

[MineralMan]

85. Nope. Just descriptive information.

[guillaumeb]

87. Anecdotal stories,

lacking full context.

And this lack of context can lead to uninformed decisions.

And uninformed decision making can lead to unintended consequences.

[MineralMan]

88. I often tell anecdotal stories, Guy.

They are what they are.

[guillaumeb]

89. And this does not affect the validity of my comments. eom

[MineralMan]

90. ..

[LovingA2andMI]

112. Actually...

You're correct. Working in a Amazon Warehouse pays between $13-$15 dollars an hour to START, raises up to $1.50 for the first year depending on performance, full benefits from day one, including 3-5% matching 401K, and this one is a rarely today -- up to 12 weeks of maternity leave with 100% pay before ever having to use Short-Term Disability or FMLA.

Look folks say plenty of things about Amazon, however, we have a family member that works for them and she loves it -- especially considering she's having her second child. With that, we will continue to support Amazon and shop with them in our home.

[guillaumeb]

135. What percent of Amazon warehouse workers are full time?

[LovingA2andMI]

137. The Warehouse Workers....

Many, Many, Many of them. Maybe you should check the records. #FYI...

[guillaumeb]

138. Many many as in 90% 80%?

Amazon has over 600,000 employees world wide.

O cannot find any sources disclosing how many US employees Amazon has. Only sources that give 600,000 as the figure worldwide.

[LovingA2andMI]

141. You Know What...

This is useless -- as in this back and forth. Go Google How Many Employees of Amazon Are Full-Time. Have fun with that. Meanwhile, we know PLENTY of Happy Amazon Employees Right Here in S.E. Michigan. Instead of hearing from some anti-Amazon person on a comment board, we'll take what we hear from the direct source -- their employees.

Also, LOVE shopping at Amazon and plan on continuing to do such -- OFTEN.

Tootles!!!

[guillaumeb]

142. OK.

And as Amazon drives local businesses out of business, perhaps you can recommend to these now unemployed local people that they too work for Amazon.

[fleabiscuit]

127. Or the necessity of them. nt

[Adrahil]

106. And DEFLECT!

I don’t think anyone here will defend everything Bezos does, but don’t get upset when you make a bullshit statement and get called out on it.

[EX500rider]

97. How many retail jobs start at $15 an hr?

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/02/business/amazon-minimum-wage.html

[guillaumeb]

119. Showing how correct the Democrats are to embrace a $15 per hour minimum wage. eom

[EX500rider]

124. An how correct Amazon is to lead the way? nt

[theboss]

129. A $15 minimum wage would help Amazon, I think

For the same reasons large corporations love all regulations. They'll absorb, spread the increase across a gazillion platforms and products, and move. Meanwhile the family-owned shoe store that pays $10 an hour is going to have its labor costs increase 50 percent overnight.

[guillaumeb]

134. Leading by example for other predatory capitalists?

Perhaps.

[Polybius]

111. They pay well in their warehouse here

A friend stocks there, and made nearly $18 to start.

[guillaumeb]

120. In the Chicago area, the starting pay is much less.

And does this friend work full time?

[Polybius]

146. Yes

You pick your days off, you can work up to five. He works for days a week, and chose to work Saturday and Sundays because it pays a little more on those two days. He did say the bosses are tough, but the pay is good for his age (26 or so). I might be joining him soon, but I want to be a driver.

[guillaumeb]

153. If you are commercially licensed,

you might also look at the USPS site because they generally need drivers as well. Some spots drive a fixed local route, others are over the road.

Good luck.

[Adrahil]

5. Yup.

As my wife says, "I kinda want to hate Amazon, but they are so damned good at what they do."

Seriously, I simply do not want to spend 3 hours of my precious weekend time trying to find the widgets I need, only to find they don't have the exact one I want or my size (but hey, they can special order it and get in a week... and I have to come pick it up, of course). 20 minutes on Amazon and I'm done. And it shows up on my doorstep 2 days later. And it's less expensive to boot!

[MineralMan]

11. Well add to that the whole Amazon gift card thing, and

where else could you shop with that gift money? Amazon gift cards have become one of the most popular gifts of all time. You don't even have to handle the gift card. Amazon will send it to the recipient for you in an email. What could be easier? And the recipient likes it, too, because, well, Amazon has everything.

It's insidious, to be sure, but everyone loves it. I'm wearing those hiking boots right now. Thanks Kristi!

[mercuryblues]

96. If Amazon doesn't have it

It does not exist.

We have a few big celebrations coming up this Spring. Very specific party supplies will be needed. I can drive 30 minutes into the city, shop at 8 different stores to see what they have. Then piece together a coordinating theme, then go back to the stores and purchase the items. This can take several trips, over several days. Or... I can go on Amazon look at the party supplies, and scroll down to the "other items I might be interested in" and boom. I have all the matching plates, cups, decorations and so on to choose from. Done in 2 hours. Get free shipping and save on gas.

[MineralMan]

16. Another thing. If you order from Amazon, that's another trip you

don't have to make in your gas-burning vehicle. Of course, someone's going to deliver it to you, in another fuel-burning vehicle, but you didn't add to the emissions, at least.

[Demovictory9]

22. yes, Amazon is so darn convenient. I feel guilty watching my local mall struggle

Was just in Sacramento. Walked through the big mall... store after store was going out of business.

[Adrahil]

41. Brick and mortar retail has to adjust.

They have offermore than just the same product you can get from anyone, or they have to offer superior sevice. Same day pick-up or delivery is one possibilty, and the big boxes already do that. Customization or expert (real expert) advice is another pissibility.

[Demovictory9]

63. southern cali malls are converting from traditional to movie theater with lots of restaurants types

[Adrahil]

102. That's one adaptation!

A giant food and entertainment center is not a bad idea if the populationcan afford it.

[moose65]

116. Who needs theaters??

Just sit at home and click on Amazon Prime Video!! They have thousands of things you can watch!! Who needs restaurants?? Just click on different food items on Amazon and get them delivered tomorrow!!

[The Truth Is Here]

101. They are.

I work for Postmates (like DoorDash) part time (when i need the extra cash) and noticed orders from retail stores such as Apple, Bed bath and beyond, and local convenience stores (7-11) come up for real time delivery.

So yeah i think the brick and mortars are quickly adjusting. And being smart too.

[Adrahil]

103. Awesome!

[Mariana]

133. It doesn't help that the malls are full of boring chain stores

that are often clones of each other, offering identical boring merchandise. Why bother?

[MineralMan]

51. Yup. The Mall business model is finished.

I haven't been in one in years. The last time I went to one was when I was looking for three gold chains for my wife to replace broken ones for pendants she had.

I went to a couple of mall jewelers, who didn't have time to show me what they had. I went to a big department store at the mall, which had someone behind the jewelry counter who told me they didn't have gold chains, despite me looking into a rotating display of them on the counter in front of me.

So, I came home and went on Amazon. In five minutes I had the three chains, selected from an almost unlimited supply of designs, lengths, clasp types, etc. Cheaper, too. I haven't been in a mall since.

My wife, too, stopped going to malls, after a shop employee in a Hallmark store copied her credit card number and bought a $500 mall gift card on her account. That didn't cost us anything in the end, though, and the employee ended up doing prison time, but it was terribly inconvenient and tied up a bunch of time on the phone then and later.

Malls are over. Done. Finished. They just haven't realized it yet. They're from another time, and that time has passed.

I don't mourn retail business models that are no longer relevant. That's a waste of time. Adapt or die.

[theboss]

130. And 20 years ago, you would have been complaining about how the mall killed the downtown

In 50 years, people are going to wonder what the hell we were thinking with malls. Drive 20 miles to park in a massive parking lot, walk around inside for hours, deal with crowds and bored teenage sales clerks, make two stupid impulse purchases and eat a $4 slice of Sbarros.

[theaocp]

7. I can't support them, since they will become the company store.

There has to be a way around this, though I honestly don't know the way forward. Right now, my house just doesn't shop with them. I also why we don't step foot in a wal-mart, walgreens, or sam's club. Insignificant, micro-victories, but personal victories for the time being.

[MineralMan]

17. I don't know. I suppose you can avoid all those corporate stores.

How much is your time worth, though? That's the question I ask myself frequently. I could have gotten the same boots, from the same manufacturer, for the same price, at a Mills Fleet Farm store nearby, but it's a 10-minute drive each way, and i have no way to check whether they have my size in stock or not.

Besides, I had that Amazon gift card, which Mills Fleet Farm doesn't accept, although they sell Amazon gift card from a rack near the checkout counter. Now, that's funny, I think.

You can shop in other ways, certainly. For now, anyhow.

[Adrahil]

44. Exactly. +1 NT

[dlk]

9. Our Personal Data is Being Monetized by Corporations

We live in a world of surveillance and there is an entire futures market based on our private data. We are the raw material for this new area of capitalism, as outlined in a new book, “The Age of Surveillance Capitalism: the Fight for a Human Future at the New Frontier of Power” by Shoshana Zuboff. The author was recently interviewed on C-Span. We live in a brave new world.

[MineralMan]

13. Indeed it is.

That information is being sold and traded like any other commodity, too.

I had to switch my Medicare supplemental coverage for 2019. The plan I used to have was no longer available, and the company that I had it with no longer had the clinic I've been using for 15 years in their network. So, I switched to a company that did have my clinic in network.

So, I went in for my annual Medicare wellness check. I had my insurance cards out so the clinic could change their records. The receptionist took them, looked at her computer screen, and said, "We already have your insurance information." Then, I needed to change pharmacies, since the new company had Walgreens as a higher co-pay provider than the pharmacy at the supermarket, which had no copay at all for my meds.

The doctor sent my prescriptions in to the new pharmacy, which is in the supermarket I normally shop. I didn't need them filled, though, for another 30 days. So, the next time I was in there, i stopped at the pharmacy counter to give them my insurance info. "Oh, we already have you in our system," the nice person there said. "I see you have three prescriptions on hold for 30 days. We'll call you when it's time to pick them up." They called. I picked them up a couple of days ago. "No charge, sir."

Everyone has the information who needs to have it. Probably a lot of people have the information who doesn't need to have it, too.

Oh, well...it's a new world, I guess.

[empedocles]

12. MARKET POWER helps

[MineralMan]

14. Yes, I suppose it does.

[MichMan]

18. I got an education on their dynamic pricing algorithms a couple years ago

I collect books related to the history of a particular type of sport. There was a book published several years ago selling for around $60 that I liked, but not bad enough to spend that much. One day I see that Amazon is selling it for just $23 and decide it was a no brainer at that price.

I post on a couple Facebook forums related to this sport on what a good deal it was, in case anyone else was interested and several posted they were going to buy. While waiting for it to arrive, I go click on the link a couple times a day just to watch. I literally watched the price go up several times a day until in three days it was up to $48. Not saying my facebook posts generated a significant number of sales, but it was fascinating to watch.

It appeared to me that the book was slow moving, so the price kept dropping. Once it looked like sales were picking up, the algorithm that Amazon uses started automatically raising the price to the price point that sales flattened out.

[MineralMan]

23. Sure. Prices are flexible, within a certain range.

Most retailers follow that practice to some degree or another.

[MichMan]

24. Didn't expect the price to go up 6 times in 60 hrs until it was doubled n/t

[MineralMan]

27. Yeah, that's an algorithm at work, for sure.

That's where artificial intelligence is being used, really. It's getting better all the time, too.

[janterry]

28. sometimes if you keep it in your cart for awhile

as though you are now not sure - they'll lower it.

But they are cheats, in my book - for sure.

[trof]

21. And they even let me use my Discover Card 'Cashback' account to buy things.

So it's like it's FREE!
Oh they got you alright.

[MineralMan]

25. Amazon would really, really like me to become a Prime member.

I could have gotten my boots for free if I joined Prime and signed up for an Amazon credit card. I didn't. My wife has a Prime account. If it matters on a particular item, I just log into her account and order from it.

But Amazon would sure like it if I signed up, too. I ignore all that.

[trof]

42. Yeah, same here.

[janterry]

26. There's some data that they use surge pricing,

in addition to their 'dynamic pricing model' (this alone causes so many price changes, no casual consumer could possibly keep up).

As a result, I almost never buy from them. When I do, I use camelcamelcamel and honey. It gives me a fair chance.

[MineralMan]

29. Probably. I pay no attention to that at all.

There's a price I'm willing to pay for most things. If a thing I want is available at that price, then I'll probably buy it. If not, I won't.

I have no idea what camelcamelcamel and honey might be, but I'll google them.

Found it. Here's my search:

https://camelcamelcamel.com/search?sq=Nevados+men%27s+hiking+boots

Same price I paid for the shoes I bought. One step eliminated. It wouldn't have helped me at all.

[janterry]

30. camelcamelcamel

is awesome

So is honey. Here's a cnet write up on it:
https://www.cnet.com/how-to/use-honey-to-save-money-on-amazon-purchases/

[Anon-C]

31. So Amazon is essentially a monopoly?

[doompatrol39]

34. But this is different. I use them so they can't be bad!!

That seems to be the logic on here and elsewhere.

And as I stated elsewhere, yes I use them. But it's something I try and avoid or offset whenever I can, and I would like to at least think that our side is willing to stand up to them at some point when they push too far (I think we're long past that, but let's pretend that maybe we're not).

[MineralMan]

35. No, not really. It has plenty of competition.

It's moving in that direction, though. And, if someone gives you an Amazon gift card, you're pretty much limited to Amazon.

Lots of people sell the same stuff Amazon sells. The issue is more of convenience than anything else. Amazon offers personalized shopping services automatically, which is the point of my post. You can also shop online at Walmart or Target. They have similar personalization algorithms, although not quite as sophisticated.

Or, you can shop locally, and take your chances on product choices. I often find that process to be disappointing, though.

I haven't been in a mall for years now. I find mall shopping to be depressing.

[EX500rider]

36. It would be if there weren't thousands of other websites to buy from....nt

[moose65]

32. I guess I'm old school

I enjoy going out to shop from time to time. I avoid WalMart if I can, and I’ve ordered a few things from Amazon, but not much. I know some people who are on Amazon all the time. One of the drawbacks is that it can be TOO convenient, and people get conned into buying useless junk that they don’t really need. What happens when Amazon drives everyone else out of business?

[loyalsister]

73. I hate what's happening to brick and mortar and at the same time

Brick and mortar relies heavily on impulse buying from people who enjoy ruffling through merchandise. I only shop when I have specific items to buy. Since I am selective, they rarely serve me very well.

I recently went shopping for shoes when there was a post xmas sale, they didn't have my size and the store was too crowded for much help. Since I had tried on the sizes above and below I was confident ordering the one between. I found it very quickly and easily via Amazon. I got exactly what I wanted for $20 less.
Went shopping for a TV and they wouldn't deliver. Since I don't drive, my best choice was to order it online. I looked at a few sites. The most affordable was Amazon or Walmart. I chose Amazon.

I would rather a local store have gotten my money, but they didn't have exactly what I wanted and didn't provide the service I needed. "Browsing" in stores was once something people did for fun. Now they do it from home and still sometimes buy on impulse. I really wish there were more US based producers and manufacturers to buy from.

[moose65]

115. Yeah, I guess you're right

Sometimes I still like to touch the item and try it on, if it's clothes or shoes. I've only purchased a few things from Amazon over the years. When they first started, didn't they primarily sell books? It seems like they've been instrumental in driving Borders and Waldenbooks out of business. Sometimes I just like to browse around in bookstores!

Another thing I was thinking of: when I go on vacation to the beach, let's say, sometimes you have to contend with a rainy day. I'd rather go to an outlet mall and browse around than sit in the beach house and browse online! There's a social aspect to shopping, isn't there?

[loyalsister]

121. They did start with books

I think they first dominated the used books market, and local used bookstores took the first hit. Then Amazon started selling more and more new books and the new book retailers got hit. I don't like getting books from the library because I take a long time to read them and I like to be able to write in them. I have pretty severe income and spending limits and used books are my best option. That also drives my need to get exactly what I need without browsing.

I think there is a social aspect to shopping for some people. But, not for me. I dislike the confusion that comes with crowds and get frustrated by a lot of noise.

You make a good point about travel. But, that isn't a problem for people who can't afford to take vacations. I think both modes for shopping provide a niche for shoppers. And, there is a lot to criticize about Amazon. Loss of local tax revenue, employment opportunities, monopolistic business practices, and most of all anti-union policies and devaluation of the people who perform the labor that generates billions.

They are also filling a need that compensates for lack of investment in transportation infrastructure as well as growing income inequality. I really wish Sears would have taken an initiative to compete before succumbing to the demise of local retailers because of their place as trailblazers in retail development. Amazon beat them at their own game because they didn't try.

FWIW, one corporate influence that I am happy to see suffer is cable TV. I use a local ISP and stream rather than use cable. Amazon Prime is available to low income people for and offers free shipping and home TV entertainment. I am happy to not have the option to watch FOX news. I am more inclined to read news online via NYT, Wp, and reputable local papers like the KC Star, Boston Globe....

Another big loss has been repair services. Not only have the obseletist practices of Microsoft and Apple demanded constant replacements. Electronics and appliances are especially cheaply produced and repair is wither cost prohibitive or not even possible. It's wasteful and has practically killed a profession. If you remember the Maytag repairman, it's sad to know his seat is now empty.

[moose65]

128. I agree about Sears...

People say they were the Amazon of their day, but I don't think they engaged in these cutthroat practices. Plus, Sears still had stores, and they allowed rural people to purchase items from their catalogs that they never could have bought locally. So I see both sides of it from that perspective. I think I read that Sears decided to discontinue their catalog in 1993 - so they really had bad timing, didn't they?? If they could have held on for a few more years, they might have been Amazon before Amazon!

I also agree about cable TV - talk about a monopoly!! When I first moved to the town I'm in now (30 years ago) we had a local cable company and my cable bill was $22 a month. Then they were bought out by a series of bigger companies over the years, until finally the Charter Spectrum monster took over. I finally said ENOUGH last year when my bill was going to be $172 a month. I ditched cable all together and now I'm a streamer! Unfortunately, my internet service is provided by Spectrum, but I like the freedom that the streaming provides, and the fact that you can put a TV anywhere, without being tied to a cable from the wall! I think cable TV will die a slow death over the next ten years.

Your post reminded me of my great-uncle, my grandad's brother. He was a TV repairman back in the days when TVs were actual pieces of furniture!

[markpkessinger]

94. I totally agree . . .

Plus I like to be able to inspect and handle the actual merchandise I am going to purchase before I buy it.

[doompatrol39]

33. Do people at least feel conflicted about this? Even slightly?

I too use Amazon, although I try to limit how often I do and I am completely conflicted about it. . They are horrible with regard to workers, vehemently anti-union, Bezos is one of the least charitable billionaires since Steve Jobs. And like Apple our collective (or at least a sizable amount of people who otherwise claim to care about these issues) willingness to at worst overlook or justify their shitty practices and horrible big picture effects on our society and economy, and at worst (as we've seen this past year) actively cheerlead them.

Ultimately there's not a lot of daylight with regard to Wal-Mart and Amazon in terms of societal and cultural impact, yet we lambaste one and act like the other is our best friend.

And what you seem to de describing as a good thing (the algorithms "knowing you&quot for Amazon we complain about with facebook, even though it's that same methodology and justification that people use for that company as well.

I'm just extremely worried our complete willingness to let this company get away with what they get away with now will reach a point (if we're not there already) where allowing them to continue on extorting states and municipalities and enter every aspect of our lives is irreversible.

But hey, they did get me that cool new kitchen utensil in 2 days so......I guess all that other stuff doesn't matter.

[EX500rider]

38. "Do people at least feel conflicted about this? Even slightly?"

I don't, nobody is forced to work there and if they could get a better job I assume they would.
I have been buying from Amazon since 1999.

Amazon to Raise Minimum Wage to $15 for All U.S. Workers

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/02/business/amazon-minimum-wage.html

[MineralMan]

40. Well, the social issues are important.

However, Amazon's competitors aren't great performers, either, in terms of labor practices. In fact, they're sometimes worse. Amazon is paying its unskilled distribution center employees more than almost anyone else in the Twin Cities right now. If I were younger and had few skills, I'd probably be working there, I suppose. It beats Target and Walmart in terms of pay and benefits.

Of course, Amazon is using a lot of gig economy people for local delivery work. That's not such a good thing.

I don't spend a penny on Facebook, although I use it for personal and business reasons. They get none of my money, though.

Using personal data is a feature of almost everything online, and a lot of things we think are offline. I doubt that is likely to change. In fact, I suppose it will get more pervasive.

Amazon is successful because it handles things like personalization and a customized individual visitor experience better than anyone else.

We live in the data age. That's a fact.

[rurallib]

60. I sure am - I do my best to stay away from Amazon and Walmart in particular

and other similar giants in general. Costco is our exception as they pay well and treat their employees well.

I just wrote a small blurb on our blog about competition in this country. Amazon and Walmart will soon be the retail industry and that world scares me.

So we have bought 3 things from Amazon that we could find nowhere else. And I spend @ 30/month in Walmart for items I can get nowhere else, but keep looking real hard.

For one thing around here Walmart has driven out most of the competition already.

[TexasBushwhacker]

62. I feel the same way

No doubt Amazon has a very successful business model and they do what they do very well. But I wish they treated their workers better. I'm not much of a consumer anyway, but what little I buy, I buy from someplace else.

[SMC22307]

65. Yes, for all the reasons you list.

Plus, I'm just not that big of a consumer and tend to hold onto my stuff for a long time. Rampant consumerism really turns me off. I don't need the latest and greatest. (Just made a delicious cream cheese frosting with a union-made hand-mixer from the harvest gold '70s!) Amazon "knowing me"? Too Big Brother. It's probably been over ten years since I've purchased anything from Amazon and have managed to survive. I do live in an area that's thriving, though, and have shopping choices all over for when I do need something. Perhaps my attitude toward Amazon would be somewhat different if I lived in a remote area with Cheap$hitFromChina Wal-Mart as my only choice...

[DBoon]

84. Absolutely

I will look up a book on Amazon, then buy from the publisher if at all possible. If not, I use Barnes and Noble or Powell's

Other items I will get from the source.

I use Amazon only if:
- No other choice - item not available elsewhere
- Other choices are *really* dodgy
- Gift card

[RobinA]

95. I Don't

I try repeatedly to use brick & mortar. If I can get what I want there they get my money. If not, too bad. They made the decision to stop carrying stuff.

[doompatrol39]

99. So you're o.k. with Wal Mart as well?

If that's the case then great. But plenty on here who rail against Wal Mart are more than happy to praise Amazon for the same business practices that put all those brick and mortar shops out of business or unable to compete with prices on certain things.

[theboss]

126. It's difficult to make every part of your life political

And I'll be honest, the primary reason I don't shop at Wal-Mart has little to do with politics and nearly everything to do with the fact that going into a Wal-Mart fills me with existential dread. Every human interaction I have in a WalMart is usually depressing. And their products stink.

I also feel like this stuff is cyclical. The Mall with the Sears anchor store killed the downtown. The WalMart by the Interstate killed the mall. Amazon killed the WalMart. And weirdly the downtown is now back.

[yortsed snacilbuper]

37. When I worked on my 2004 car,

I replaced the water pump, radiator, fan, alternator, starter, shocks, exhaust manifold, muffler, oxygen sensors, catalytic converter, brake shoes, drums, rotors, V-belts, etc., etc. etc.

All the nuts and bolts were rusted and I had spray them with P oil and buy left handed drills to get them out and off, plus heat them till they were cherry red, luckily I didn't strip any threads, it took me awhile, I have 200.000 mile on the old car now and it's running fine!

I tried buying at the local parts stores and dealers (the dealers are useless) they didn't have what I needed even with my year, make, model and part numbers so I just ordered the parts from amazon.

[MineralMan]

45. There are lots of online auto parts sellers. Typically, they're all

a better bet than local parts houses. They'll have what you need in stock and will ship it to you faster than, say, NAPA stores can get it from their warehouse.

I bought a lot of parts for my 1991 Volvo 740 Wagon online. Most would have been impossible to get from local parts houses. That helped keep it on the road. It's gone, now, though.

[yortsed snacilbuper]

50. I went to the dealer where I bought my car,

I didn't know the guy working the counter was the lot attendant, the regular parts guys were across the street doing something with used cars, I ended up with all the wrong parts, I wasted a week screwing around!

[MineralMan]

53. Yeah, that stuff happens.

It works better when you are your own parts man and look up your own parts with your vehicle information, sometimes including a VIN number. I used to work as an auto mechanic. When I went to the parts store, I looked up my own parts in the books and gave them the number for the part I wanted. They seemed to screw things up too often when I let them do it. Who has time for that?

[yortsed snacilbuper]

52. My neighbor lady had a broken right front motor mount,

the dealer wanted $500.00 to replace it, I bought one from amazon for $35.00 and replaced in an hour for free!

She drove with it broken for 6 months?

[MineralMan]

55. Dealer service is by far the most expensive way to get

repairs, for sure. I wouldn't use them except for warranty repairs.

I used to do all of my own auto repairs. At 73, though, I don't do that any more. Screw it. I keep cars until the warranty is done and replace them now. I hate working on cars. I always hated working on cars, even though I did it for a living for a while. I fixed my own cars because I had no money. Now, I make car payments until the warranty is up and replace the car.

[joshcryer]

43. And Amazon's grocery store will know your eating habits.

And they will be able to sell you affordable insurance in the future.

And you won't know how in the hell they're doing it.

But they'll be manipulating your diet in ways you can't understand through forced deals that make you eat more fiber or lower your salt intake (with a nifty balance on junk foods that you won't notice).

It will be subtle.

But you won't care when it's noted that they have profiled everything from how many shits you take to how much food you eat.

[MineralMan]

47. Well, I won't be buying groceries from Amazon anytime soon.

Nope. I use Amazon to buy things I need or want. Specific things. I'm not interested in online grocery shopping at all.

[joshcryer]

49. They brought out Whole Foods.

Their grocery store won't even have cashiers. You'll be able to go in to them and then walk out without even pulling a credit card out. Your phone will automatically charge your balance, and you won't even have to keep track of anything.

[MineralMan]

86. I don't use whole foods either.

Prices are too high.

[joshcryer]

98. Without cashieers the prices will be lower.

Saves on shipping too (bulk to location cheaper than bulk to distribution center to home).

[MineralMan]

110. Maybe so. Maybe not.

[Revanchist]

92. I use it often for items not available in my area

I'm stuck in the midwest so some of the exotic stuff i like just can't be found here. I was looking for a particular kimchi base and called the two closest asian markets (both 90 minutes away) and neither of them had it and I wasn't going to drive to St Louis (about 3 hours) for it so off to Amazon I went. If you live in an area with greater choices then yeah, shop local but we all don't have that option. I made an Antipasto for Christmas and had to go to 5 different grocery stores to get all the particular ingredients I needed, one to them in the next town over because I couldn't find marinated mushrooms locally.

[Tink41]

46. Use them all the time.

But I must say, "my personalized" page doesn't interest me at all. My interests vary depending on time of day!! Lol. I may think of something at 1 am look it up,go to bed and the next morning it's something else, never to be revisited again! I have only once in 10 yrs bought a deal of the day. They just don't appeal to me. Now I can totally get into their Warehouse, Open Box section. Majority of my purchases are usedreturns.

[MineralMan]

48. But, see, you're using it as your personal shopping site, anyhow.

And I'm not really talking about a specific, personalized page. The Amazon home page is personalized, too. Everything is, now, on Amazon. Every page you visit is tailored to your personal data, whether you realize it or not.

Their Warehouse section is interesting. It's just that there wasn't anything there I needed. I don't shop randomly...ever. I'm always looking for something specific. I'm not a random customer at all.

[Tink41]

66. Interesting take

I'm not random shopping either. I am in a constant state of working on projects, work w my hands all day long a constant need for hand tools etc... Always looking for things to make my life better. I specifically go to Warehouse to find what I need. Although I do not buy soft goods there. Clothes, bedding, shoes, towels. I am sure when I put into the search bar whatever I'm looking for my results are personally tailored to who they think I am. I usually have to drill down to find what I really want. That's the sad part because there are some of us that can't be put into boxes and being continually disappointed in search results Amazon will lose customers.

[USALiberal]

54. I LOVE Amazon, great interface, easy returns, love the reviews. nt

[underpants]

56. Better mousetrap

BTW Amazon is also possibly going to expand into LTL and package delivery. They already have the routes so why not branch out? The still use UPS in the distribution just like the postal service does.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

57. I think Facebook has similar algoritms

I posted a picture of a lake in my neighborhood and commented it was near a particular restaurant. Later I started seeing Facebook ads for said restaurant.

[Iggo]

58. I sit on my ass in my bedroom, click Buy, and the shit comes to my house, sometimes the same day.**

If I combine Ebay, Target, JC Penny, Sears, Kohl's, Guitar Center, Sweetwater, and a few others, I can get almost everything I can get from Amazon, but it's still not as fast and easy as it is with Amazon.

Variety, Speed, and Ease.

Somebody else gets that right and they'll compete with Amazon.

(** I live within 50 miles of several of Amazon's "fulfillment centers" in Riverside and San Berdoo.)

[guillaumeb]

77. On the other hand, that convenience comes at a cost:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211831587

[demigoddess]

59. I buy from them because they sell the flavors of Jello I use for jello salads. No grocery will.

I use pineapple flavor jello in my pineapple and carrot salad. You cannot use lime, strawberry or grape flavors and that is what you find at the store.

I use mango flavor in other salads, not found in stores.

Also I can order a case of 24 and not pay shipping so the price is similar to stores if they carried it.

[theboss]

132. I'm imagining this as someone from 1955 ordering from Amazon

And it's messing with my view of the nature of time.

How may Jello salads do you make?

[demigoddess]

143. not that many, but my pineapple carrot salad takes two 3 oz pkgs.

and the pkgs of jello last so I order about once a year. So approximately one pineapple/carrot jello a month. I also make one or two of something else. I have a handicapped daughter over 45 yrs who just recently learned to like lettuce salads. So that might make me more jello salads than others.

[theboss]

144. Nifty

I have a weird obsession with cookbooks from the 50s and 60s, and Jello salads are a staple of those.

[demigoddess]

154. If you want my recipe for pineapple-carrot salad I will send it to you

easy and healthy.

[bhikkhu]

61. The reviews are what I use most

Which, of course, requires a lot of people buying stuff and posting reviews. But if I need a rice cooker, for instance, I can go down to walmart or whatever and see a bunch of varieties sitting on shelves; I have no idea how well any of them work or how reliable they are. Warranties, sure, but warranties are seldom worth the trouble.

Or I can go to Amazon and read reviews. Usually I go to the negatives - what went wrong and how often, then the positives, how well a thing worked and how easy. You seldom know how easy a thing is to use until you get it home, and reading "the controls are a big pain, and the instructions suck", then price isn't the biggest issue for something you want to use regularly. I don't buy much, but I want things to work, and Amazon is really the main and easiest place to find that out.

[MineralMan]

64. Yes. I often use their reviews when I can't decide which thing to buy.

Amazon pushes its customers for reviews, and they respond by writing them. They also ask regular reviewers if they can answer customer questions. I think that's interesting, and answer such questions whenever I can. Some of the questions are pretty funny, but often they're very good ones.

So, I'm acting as an unpaid customer service person. When someone gets a peer answer from another customer, they get asked to rate the answer. If your answers get rated highly, you get asked more often. It's interesting, and it's all completely automated. Why would I voluntarily answer random questions about products I buy? I don't know. I guess it's because I want to be helpful. Not to Amazon, but to someone I don't know at all.

I bought an aftermarket fuel valve for a 1980s Honda four-wheeler once, about two years ago. I'm still getting questions about that part. "Does it fit?" "Did it work OK?" "Can I reuse the old O-ring?" I can answer those questions, because I bought one and installed it on my father's four-wheeler. Amazon has automated a community support system for the products it sells, and it works, because people don't mind answering questions. Genius!

[guillaumeb]

68. Growth at the expense of local businesses.

Another marvelous little anecdote.

All hail Amazon.

It is classic predatory capitalism in action.

[doompatrol39]

71. Seriously, I wonder how many of these same people on here also praise Wal-Mart...

I mean it's been naturally assumed that anyone with even a slightly progressive Democratic mindset hates Wal-Mart, even if at times there are no other choices (thanks to.....you guessed it....Wal Marts business practices). I mean even those of us that have to shop there recognize that this is because their predatory business practices have left people with no choice.

And I expect it from definitely my right-wing acquaintances, but also my myopic apolitical friends. But the sheer number of Amazon superfans on here who see zero disconnect between hating Wal-Mart but loving Amazon is frightening.

I honestly don't think I've seen anything that gives me less hope in our future than that. I mean there are lots of things that I'm moderately confident about if and when Democrats take control of government again. But based on the past year and the past week in particular, I have zero confidence that even a fully Democratic government would at this point be willing to completely turn over control of almost everything to Amazon and Jeff Bezos.

[guillaumeb]

74. Agreed.

It is classic short term thinking, where a small savings to 1 person results in massive taxpayer subsidies that these same shoppers do not even realize are being paid.

Welcome to DU.

[guillaumeb]

75. And you might like this:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211831587

[samnsara]

82. dont fight it...buy Amazon stock....

[DBoon]

83. I've noticed this too. I find it creepy.

DAVE: Open the pod bay doors, Hal.
HAL: I’m sorry, Dave. I’m afraid I can’t do that.
DAVE: What’s the problem?
HAL: l think you know what the problem is just as well as l do.
DAVE: What are you talking about, Hal?
HAL: This mission is too important for me to allow you to jeopardize it.
DAVE: I don’t know what you're talking about, Hal.
HAL: l know that you and Frank were planning to disconnect me, and I’m afraid that's something I can’t allow to happen.
DAVE: Where the hell’d you get that idea, Hal?
HAL: Although you took very thorough precautions in the pod against my hearing you, I could see your lips move.
DAVE: All right, Hal. I’ll go in through the emergency air lock.
HAL: Without your space helmet, Dave, you’re going to find that rather difficult.
DAVE: Hal, I won’t argue with you anymore. Open the doors!
HAL: Dave...This conversation can serve no purpose anymore. Goodbye.

[northoftheborder]

91. Shoes and clothes are what I want to buy in person

I really hate to shop in person these days, it is exhausting and time consuming. But, I have tried buying clothes and shoes online, and while convenient, half the time I have to return (and pay for the postage) because they do not fit, or the quality is not what I expected. A few of the larger department stores have good employees who help you find what you are looking for; I hope they don't all go out of business.

[Blue_Tires]

100. What the hell you doing buying $41 boots?

Don't you love your feet? Is comfort not a big thing for you??

[MineralMan]

105. Well, you're not wearing my boots. I am.

They're very comfortable.

[KPN]

107. Interesting OP and discussion. I wonder what history will have to say about Amazon

30 years, 50 years, a hundred years from now. Heck, things are changing so fast — even 20 years from now?

I do have to ask, can a person hope to own a home making $15 an hour? Home ownership has been an achievable goal for the majority of households over most if not all of the past 60+ years or so. The American dream. Is that dream no longer achievable and valued by society here in the USA?

[MineralMan]

108. Only time will tell. However, odds are that someone

will come up with a business model that is better than Amazon's. Then, Amazon will be on the same path that Sears followed.

As for your other question, no, it's not really possible to own a home if you make $15/hour in most places in this country. Probably not even if you have a second person making that wage in the household.

And that's the real problem with the current state of this country and its economy. Too many people earn too little to take part in its possibilities. The problem, however, isn't just limited to giant corporations. In many places, companies like Amazon pay workers more than smaller businesses. That's true in the Minneapolis St. Paul area, where many workers are earning about $12/hr. Amazon is paying about $16/hour at a minimum here.

[KPN]

113. Without attainable dreams like home ownership, higher education, a reasonably

comfortable retirement, is a stable, healthy society even sustainable? I don’t believe so. Something has to give. Will it be the .1-1%, the rest, or all of us.

Amazon is an amazing business. But what good is any business in the end if it doesn’t contribute sufficiently to a healthy society over th long term?

[MineralMan]

114. Those are all good questions.

Really, it's all an experiment. The answers don't come until much later.

Retailing has change enormously in the short history of the United States. It will continue to change, as will almost all aspects of our society and economy.

What will be the impact of Amazon? I have no idea. It's too soon to tell. What was the impact of Sears, Roebuck & Co? It was the Amazon of the turn of the 19th/20th century. In many ways, it had a similar impact on small retail businesses that Amazon is having now. Walmart? Target? Home Depot? All huge corporations that have driven many small businesses into closed businesses.

I'm not championing Amazon. I'm studying it. It's a 21st century phenomenon. It is changing retailing and many other things. For good or bad, I'm not in a position to say, really. It's paying somewhat higher wages in many places than traditional retail businesses, but hires fewer people, due to its extensive use of automation.

It's making a vast range of goods available to anyone, regardless of where they live. By eliminating consumer trips to local stores, it's affecting traffic and fuel use. On the other hand, it's generating huge amounts of packaging waste. Whatever you look at, it's being affected by Amazon's business model.

Some people on DU have chided me for writing about that business model. I don't apologize for that. Without discussing it and looking at why it is successful, we really can't discuss its impact, positive or negative. I wrote about one instance of using Amazon on a personal basis here. I have mixed feelings about Amazon.

My business is helping small businesses succeed with their Internet marketing. I help them create websites that generate business. I don't work on corporate websites - just small businesses. Because of that, I cannot ignore what is going on in retailing and Internet marketing, so I study Amazon and other online giant corporations.

I'm incorporating some of the techniques the huge companies are using into online marketing for the clients to work with the people I work with. That's why I'm studying the most successful Internet retailer. It's competing with my clients, and they need all the help they can get in competing with Amazon and others.

Do I use Amazon for some personal purchases? Sure. They have what I want and it's very convenient. But, my business is helping small companies succeed. What I'm learning helps.

[KPN]

118. Yes, it is an experiment. None of us know the outcome

as far as societal impacts.

I didn’t see your OP as apologistic. Only descriptive. I understand your interest. I use Amazon on occasion as well. It’s hard not to in today’s world. At the same time, I am a fan of community and buying local whenever possible. It just seems healthier for the people and the place where I live. It’s kind of an aspirational model that, like the grand centralization embodied by the Amazons and WalMarts, is experimental regarding sustainability.

[MineralMan]

149. You're right. It's not an apologetic for Amazon.

Not at all. Amazon exists. It needs to be studied.

I work with small businesses to help them market their goods and services more effectively. There's much to learn from Amazon, and those businesses are quite interested in what the largest internet retailer is doing.

[Johnny2X2X]

117. They do a lot more than that

Amazon not only knows your interests and buying habits, they know your personality and moods. And this is more than normal marketing that puts consumers into segments. Do you know that Facebook shared a ton of your info with Amazon. And they've also done marketing by using psychological manipulation to get people to be receptive to buying. Stuff like, User MineralMan just posted an upsetting political meme on Facebook, he's most likely to be upset right now, we know upset people will more readily buy things, time to hit him with these specific advertisements today between 6 and 9 pm.

But I agree, they create a tailored experience that really makes shopping easier.

And they also have pushed retail industry customer serviced to amazing levels. People buy on Amazon because it's hassle free to buy, ship, and return products. They hold their vendors to very high standards. And online companies who aren't even on Amazon have to follow suit to compete at all.

[frazzled]

122. They sure don't know me

I just went to Amazon to see what is recommended for me. Totally bizarre, aside from things I've accidentally searched for online but not bought from them (and these were almost all things I was looking for for someone else: my geriatric mother, for instance--who is not me).

Okay: Under the "Video Recommended for You" they had "Tyler Perry's Boo! 2 A Madea Halloween." Really? What gave them that idea? It's so far from a movie I'd ever watch, the recommendation is funnier than probably the movie is.

Under "Grocery and Gourmet Food" they had a bunch of different K-cup coffee pods. It's possible that about five years ago I ordered some of those for my mom and dad when they got a Keurig machine (my father passed away at age 100 two years ago, so I know it was at least 3 or 4 years before that). I don't own a Keurig machine: I grind my own beans and use a vacuum system.

Under "Recommendations for You," subheading "Gifts," they had a bunch of ridiculous things I would never buy, chief among them "The Farting Animal Coloring Book" (I kid you not) and "Exploding Kittens: A Card Game." As well as "Rapper's Delight: A Hip Hop Cookbook" (they seem to think I'm black, which is kinda cool, but in reality I'm an aging little Jewish woman).

I could go on, because it's pretty funny and waaaaay off the mark. What they really don't know about me is that I hate Amazon, and avoid buying anything through them unless I can't get it any other way. Besides, their contract drivers are so bad here that my whole building is in an uproar about packages never received: they either are delivered to another building (they just drop them wherever they can log in as "delivered" ) or put them on the street where they get stolen.

Uh, no. I don't want people telling me what I might want to buy (or watch) anyway, no matter what the company is. Algorithms are dumb.

Several songs to ponder on the subject of "You Don't Know Me," plus a very funny New Yorker humor piece on Algorithms.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/12/10/algorithms

[MineralMan]

123. Well, obviously, they know more about people who buy stuff from them.

Until you do that, you're not really a customer. They'll wait. When you start buying stuff, they'll quickly learn about you.

[frazzled]

125. Well, they've got you hooked, ain't they?

Just keep sending me the same stuff. They don't know you; they're just parroting you. Maybe you could expand horizons.

Look, I HAVE bought from Amazon when desperate (I'm rarely desperate, but sometimes I have to get something for someone who is not me, and once in a blue moon something I can't find elsewhere). I used to buy filters for my Franke hot/cold water sink dispenser there (from a third party vendor), because it was easier than running 15 miles up to Abt Appliances to get one in person. But then we called Abt and asked if they'd match the price of the New Jersey vendor on Amazon. They said sure, and took my credit card and shipped it for free. That's how we do it now. I also used to buy all my Brother printer toner cartridges from Amazon, till I found out that they were charging more than Staples. But there's a Office Depot only three blocks from my house, and we walked there and said, hey, will you match the Staples price? And they said sure. It's easy.

I've also used Amazon to occasionally buy gifts (e.g. for people who put their wedding registries there and I have no other choice, but these are not things I want or would buy myself).

You don't have to order from Amazon. I don't want to order from Amazon. They are a mega-monopoly that uses brutal tactics to bully vendors and then slash their prices to hurt their business. You could buy from those vendors directly. It's so easy to search the Internet for all kinds of products, compare prices, and order directly from the vendor or company.

[onenote]

139. Some people find Amazon's "memory" of purchasing habits creepy

Yet many of those same folk miss the good old days when your local shopkeeper knew all about you and what you liked.

[MineralMan]

140. That's true. That personal connection built customer loyalty.

Maybe that still works.

[Kaleva]

145. I devolped a fictional character with an alias to do on line shopping

My alternate me has his own name, mailing address, a home for which he pays the utilities ( a home I own and is in my name but the utilities are charged to my alias), credit cards, cell phone, e-mail address, Facebook account and such.

All perfectly legal to do as long as one doesn't use the alias to engage in fraud, identify theft or other criminal activities.

[LanternWaste]

147. It's adorable you believe your critique applies only to Amazon.

[MineralMan]

148. What makes you think I believe that?

I don't, but I'm talking about Amazon in this thread.

I'm never adorable, by the way.

[DanTex]

150. Yes, monopolies are able to crush the competition. What else is new?

[MineralMan]

151. Well, Amazon isn't exactly a monopoly. There's considerable large-scale

competition in national online retailing. Amazon's the most successful at this time, but it does have competition.

Its real impact is on smaller businesses, which cannot employ the same big-data techniques. I work with such small businesses, so my job is to try to find ways to improve their marketing strategies.

It's a tough pull, really. It's going to take some fundamental changes in how small businesses think about marketing. Some will get it, and continue to do well. Others will not, and will fail, no doubt. That's in retailing. Service businesses, on the other hand, can benefit with marketing strategies that learn from Amazon and other Internet giants.

I think about this, and study this, because that's what I do for a living. It's easy to throw up one's hands and accept defeat. That's a sure way to accelerate failure. There are alternatives, though, for those willing to look at new concepts. Studying success is one way to do that.

[DanTex]

152. It's a monopoly by any reasonable definition.

It has a 50% market share in online retail sales. Much larger than, the next 5 or 10 combined. And that's over all retail sales, not just the markets that Amazon specializes in -- for certain specific markets, like say books, the market share is much larger. There's not much plausible competition at this moment. Online sales from places like WalMart or Costco are rounding error compared to Amazon.

It also acts as a monopolist, using its size to undercut smaller competitors via things like temporarily dropping prices in some areas to non-profitable levels to drive others out of business. It also acts monopolistically as an employer, and has significant political clout.


It's not a question of "accepting defeat". It's a question of recognizing that it is a monopoly and getting our political leaders to do something about it.

Yeah, for a small business, they can't take on Amazon directly, so the only option is to find ways to work within the system that Amazon dominates. From the point of view of a small business, it doesn't matter whether Amazon is a monopoly, because there's nothing they can do about it anyway. And I'm sure plenty of small businesses manage it successfully, and I'm sure you are very good at consulting to them on how to do that.

But that doesn't change the fact that Amazon is a monopoly. By analogy, if the mob owns a neighborhood, a store owner can maybe still thrive by paying the protection money, but a protection racket is still a protection racket even if it doesn't run every shop owner out of business.

I agree with your OP that Amazon provides a good user experience. That's great, but they are still a monopoly. Most of the large tech businesses are. Google has no real competition in search. Microsoft has no real competition in operating systems and office software. Facebook has no real competition as a social media platform.

The reason this happens is because tech industries naturally lend themselves to monopolies. There are large fixed costs, but variable costs -- the costs to produce additional goods are services -- are close to zero. For example, it costs facebook basically zero to add additional user accounts, just the server space. And since the value of a social network is proportional to how many other people are using it, it is natural that it all concentrates on one.