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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAnother woman comes forward re: Fairfax
This is no doubt the end of Fairfax, yet the Republicans put another rapist on the US Supreme Court.
Link to tweet
/photo/1
More:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/second-woman-accuses-va-lt-gov-justin-fairfax-of-sexual-assault/2019/02/08/19e6bb6c-2bdf-11e9-b011-d8500644dc98_story.html?utm_term=.60b3acc30577
https://wtkr.com/2019/02/08/second-woman-accuses-lt-gov-fairfax-of-sexual-assault-calls-for-his-resignation/
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riverwalker
(8,694 posts)He’s done
temporary311
(955 posts)There's never just one.
theboss
(10,491 posts)Who is Meredith Watson and what is Evergreen Partners?
Is this a Jacob Wolh style hail mary that just muddies the waters? Or are these real people? That press release is STRONG for this kind of situation.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)theboss
(10,491 posts)The CEO apparently worked for Florio in NJ at one time - though I don't know that if hurts or helps her credibility.
This doesn't seem fly by night. But that press release....wow.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Florio#Post_governorship
Florio served on the board of directors of Trump Entertainment Resorts until he and other board members were forced to resign following the company's entry into its third bankruptcy. He also serves on the board of Plymouth Financial Company, Inc. He is a founding partner and of counsel to the law firm of Florio, Perrucci, Steinhardt & Fade
HipChick
(25,485 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)They were referred to Ailes by Donald Trump.
No shit.
These are, literally, Trump's people.
theboss
(10,491 posts)Fairfax hired Kavanaugh's attorneys. You hire the best.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)And she needed to "hire" these people.... why? And for how much?
These people specialize in handling "bad news" against their clients.
This is the opposite of that.
Just because X hired Y, does not mean that A hired B for the same reason.
This is not a law firm. It is a right wing smear firm.
theboss
(10,491 posts)Do they only work for right-wingers?
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)You were calling them "the experts" just minutes ago, and now you don't know who they are?
theboss
(10,491 posts)I assume Roger Ailes only hired the most expensive representation.
Let me put it this way. If I met an attorney and he said, I'm Roger Ailes' attorney, I would think "Well, this dude's legit."
(Oddly, I assume everyone who works for Trump is a Cohen-level shyster).
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)And Roger Ailes attorney would not give you the time of day without a $50,000 retainer.
You got that?
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)
mahatmakanejeeves
(57,489 posts)"They" = Evergreen Partners.
I'm about to go home. I won't be online for awhile.
theboss
(10,491 posts)Which is why I'm confused by the whole thing.
The Washington Post story does make this coherent though.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)
DFW
(54,405 posts)"Evergreen Partners is the region’s leading public relations firm specializing in crisis communications, reputation management, litigation support and issues management consulting.
"If you are a high profile public figure, a leading not-for-profit or business entity, a dynamic corporate litigator, a professional athlete or a prominent educational or religious institution, you may be here because your peers have relied on Evergreen services — and they’ve told you we consistently exceed expectations.
"Whether you are facing a media scrutiny or public outcry over a personal, legal or corporate situation, or you seek greater public awareness and visibility for your brand, Evergreen is committed to representing your interests and relentless in pursuing your goals."
Not exactly the discreet soft sell, but from the wording, that's not what they are trying to convey, either.
Also, it is unclear what's up with their Facebook claims. This incident happened, says the offended party, in the year 2000 and was commented upon immediately. Facebook is mentioned as one outlet where it was posted. Only: Facebook was launched in February, 2004.
If things went down as the accuser claims, some very expensive hired guns have shown up to back those claims up, and very quickly. SOMEone wants Fairfax outta there, and preferably yesterday. What's the rush? Due process too slow for somebody?
If Fairfax is guilty as charged, there should be a full investigation and trial, and I, for one, would like to see if the funding (and enthusiasm) for this whole campaign is as fully charged in six months as it is now. If his accusers have waited fifteen years to call him out, they can wait another few months to see justice served. "Now or never" shouts mean there was entirely another agenda at work. Looks like some extremely high-powered pressure is being brought here. Pro bono? If not, who's paying the bills? And I do NOT mean, "whose name is on the check?" but rather in whose account was this money sitting three weeks ago?
theboss
(10,491 posts)Okey dokey.
DFW
(54,405 posts)If not, what's the connection (besides okey dokey)?
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)She seems an unlikely Republican plant:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211794910
DFW
(54,405 posts)This Evergreen firm was hired by someone else, unless the article was completely misleading.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)DFW
(54,405 posts)What I seem to have missed is where Tyson has anything to do with Evergreen.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)DFW
(54,405 posts)Which is why I didn't get this response, when I hadn't made any reference to Tyson whatsoever:
39. So we're back to Dr. Tyson is a right wing stooge territory
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)DFW
(54,405 posts)But don't worry about it. I had to get up at 4:30 for work this (now yesterday) morning, and I have to get up at 5:30 tomorrow (just past midnight here) for work again, and a few hours of sleep is more important to me than rehashing this subject until sun-up.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)I'm afraid we will learn Alleged Victim #2 is a Democrat also.
DFW
(54,405 posts)If anyone has claimed solid evidence to the contrary, it has escaped me, but if so, that's for tomorrow morning. I have teeth that need brushing.
theboss
(10,491 posts)I read your post as suggesting that we investigate the finances of both accusers.
DFW
(54,405 posts)I never mentioned Tyson at all. It is the firm of Evergreen that intrigues me. The second accuser, Watson, is now tied to them, although that does not necessarily mean she is like them. All it means is that she was steered in their direction. They do not appear to be a charitable organization, and their website touts what seems to be an aggressive nature. The fees for their services are therefore being picked up by someone whose identity I would find it helpful to know, in order to get a better handle on the whole picture. Bits and pieces leave holes, which is why I have preferred to stay out of the whole mess for the most part.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/kateaurthur/roger-ailes-documentary-fox-news
Bloom did, however, find firsthand witnesses to Ailes’ final days at Fox News, Karen Kessler and Warren Cooper, from the crisis PR firm Evergreen Partners — and the story they tell is the stuff of both comedy and drama.
Kessler and Cooper had been referred to Ailes through Trump, and when they arrived at the Ailes home in Cold Spring, New York, it was utter chaos. In a living room with a “chintz” design aesthetic, Beth Ailes, Roger’s loyal wife and protector, and Irena Briganti, Fox News’ fearsome head of public relations (still!), were rushing around talking on the phone.
theboss
(10,491 posts)The CEO once worked for Jim Florio apparently.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Because, yep, Trump knows expertise when he sees it.
Florio - also a Trump stooge:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Florio#Post_governorship
Florio served on the board of directors of Trump Entertainment Resorts until he and other board members were forced to resign following the company's entry into its third bankruptcy. He also serves on the board of Plymouth Financial Company, Inc. He is a founding partner and of counsel to the law firm of Florio, Perrucci, Steinhardt & Fade
Response to theboss (Reply #10)
pnwmom This message was self-deleted by its author.
melman
(7,681 posts)Say what? Since when is Kavanaugh a Democrat?
sprinkleeninow
(20,251 posts)Mb Northam?
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)sprinkleeninow
(20,251 posts)
SoCalDem
(103,856 posts)
SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)
brooklynite
(94,598 posts)book_worm
(15,951 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)You have confidence in Roger Ailes' PR firm that was referred by Trump, and which also did work for a former director of Trump Resorts?
Really?
theboss
(10,491 posts)The caution thing goes in both directions.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)This is Rathod simply reposting someone else's press release.
Are you suggesting he is vouching for the facts?
theboss
(10,491 posts)I don't know any of these people.
I know everyone involved in Dr. Tyson's story. I'm flying blind here.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Do you believe that saying that makes your opinion the final word on the topic?
ProfessorGAC
(65,076 posts)It's pretty boring!
Learn a second song!
ChubbyStar
(3,191 posts)I do love you
brush
(53,788 posts)No Franken 2.0.
Fairness for all parties.
sprinkleeninow
(20,251 posts)Demsrule86
(68,586 posts)this year. The Lieutenant governor work to push legislation through...think about that when the GOP is a couple of seats away from losing the legislature.
theboss
(10,491 posts)brooklynite
(94,598 posts)octoberlib
(14,971 posts)Last edited Fri Feb 8, 2019, 06:19 PM - Edit history (1)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/second-woman-accuses-va-lt-gov-justin-fairfax-of-sexual-assault/2019/02/08/19e6bb6c-2bdf-11e9-b011-d8500644dc98_story.htmlA woman said Friday she was raped by Virginia Lt. Gov. Justin Fairfax (D) in a “premeditated and aggressive” assault in 2000, while they both were undergraduate students at Duke University.
Through her attorney, Meredith Watson said she shared her account of sexual assault immediately after it happened with several classmates, who have provided statements. Her lawyer also said she shared her account with friends in a string of emails and Facebook messages.
Kaneedreck Adams, 40, an attorney who attended Duke with Watson and said in the spring of 2000, when they lived across from each other in on-campus apartments, Watson came to her crying.
brush
(53,788 posts)says someone raped his client without using qualifying words like "alleged"?
The long knives are certainly out for Fairfax.
dalton99a
(81,516 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)“She was upset,” Adams said. “She told me she had been raped and she named Justin.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/second-woman-accuses-va-lt-gov-justin-fairfax-of-sexual-assault/2019/02/08/19e6bb6c-2bdf-11e9-b011-d8500644dc98_story.html?utm_term=.b9d20ea587dc
And I presume the facebook references are to now and not then.
Drunken Irishman
(34,857 posts)It's saying she told friends days later and then, through Facebook, maybe the last few months/years, mentioned it to other friends.
Either way, this is another credible source - it's snowballing.
theboss
(10,491 posts)But we're apparently all in on circling the wagons for a politician most of us vaguely were aware of at best.
Ms. Toad
(34,075 posts)The assertion is that she told people immediately - and that she also (time unspecified) told people via email and Facebook.
As for attorneys not using the word alleged - I would not, in representing a rape survivor, even dream of using the word alleged - it would undercut my client's case. It is media that use the word alleged, not advocates for survivors.
theboss
(10,491 posts)No one would say, "I was allegedly raped."
Fresh_Start
(11,330 posts)it says she shared with friends in 2000 and she also shared on facebook
two different sharings
Captain Stern
(2,201 posts)....like "alleged"?
Is this a joke? If it is, it's a sad one.
The answer is: Every single lawyer that's worth a damn, and pretty much all of the ones that aren't.
I can see it now....."You're honor..I submit that the defendant allegedly raped my client".
Bradshaw3
(7,522 posts)Just said it was shared on FB.
Before it was one accuser who people tried to discredit because she talked about trying to suppress the memory of it and now people are using which PR firm she hired in an attempt to discredit the second accuser? Would people be going to great lengths to defend Fairfax if he were a white repub?
brush
(53,788 posts)Fairness for all involved. If he did it let it be found out for sure and punishment meted out.
You can't put it past people to get rid of Dems through accusations only (see Al Franken).
Bradshaw3
(7,522 posts)Advising people to be cautious is fine but saying "FB wasn't around in 2000" as a way of proving the story wrong was inaccurate, since it didn't say the FB posts were in 2000.
Also, to try and claim that two credible claimants could be part of some wild conspiracy just seems like a reach- trying, like I wrote, to defend someone in ways that we wouldn't do for a repub.
brush
(53,788 posts)Find out the truth. Accusations should be investigated.
The first accuser said she just wanted to go back to her life and the second seems to not want it to go further either.
Nah, there has to be an investigation.
Bradshaw3
(7,522 posts)After you address the points I made and the question I asked, which was "Would you or others on here be going to all these lengths to question the motives or claims of the accusers if they were accusing a white repub?
brush
(53,788 posts)because accusers came forward.
Hope that explains why people want an investigation. The accusers could very well be telling the truth so let's find out for sure.
Bradshaw3
(7,522 posts)Or answer the question. No explanation was needed about an investigation, though it did give more insight into why you won't answer the question.
brush
(53,788 posts)It didn't say when on Facebook, so excuse me for knowing Facebook didn't exist in 2000.
Is that what you're talking about?
Now are you for an investigation or not
SoCalDem
(103,856 posts)I do believe that young men can be aggressive and impulsive and may cross many lines, but I also believe that transgressions that only come out decades later are practically impossible to "prove", and the mere accusation can derail a career permanently...
We all know how sneaky and vile republicans are, so is it entirely impossible that young women are being searched for...and may be offered financial assistance to "help" out????
theboss
(10,491 posts)Dr. Tyson is a respected professor.
standingtall
(2,785 posts)Then they should have the courage to follow through with cooperating with an investigation to get to the bottom of what happened.
This statement makes her credibility suspect.
“At this time, Ms. Watson is reluctantly coming forward out of a strong sense of civic duty and her belief that those seeking or serving in public office should be of the highest character,” Smith said in the statement . “She has no interest in becoming a media personality or reliving the trauma that has greatly affected her life. Similarly, she is not seeking any financial damages.”
Watson wants Fairfax to resign from office, Smith said.
Ms. Toad
(34,075 posts)Imposing artificial constrictions on how victims must behave is part and parcel of victim blaming. Fairfax took control over her body from her when he raped her. She has every right to control when and how she discloses and prosecutes (or doesn't) Fairfax - and what she needs to survive with her emotional integrity intact. She believes her story is important to assist Virginians in deciding whether keep Fairfax - so she is sharing it. She has no obligation to subject herself to the criminal justice system, which is notorious for chewing up and spitting out survivors.
standingtall
(2,785 posts)needs to be evidence of it presented period.There is no other crime that someone would agree that a simple accusation is all that was needed to find the accused to guilty.
Ms. Toad
(34,075 posts)That is a legal conclusion following a court trial, which the two women who have come forward have expressly stated they are not interested in pursuing.
Second, a simple assertion that one has been the victim of a crime is all that is necessary to establish a presumption that a crime has occurred - unless the crime is rape. Which is largely the point rape survivors have been making for years.
No one suggests that when a man takes an expensive brooch freom a woman that she was not robbed because she was advertising she had an expensive brooch. Read through the threads here and see how many suggest the acknowledged sexual encounter wasn't rape because she went to his hotel room.
As far as evidence - you have both parties' acknowledgement that oral sex occurred, and you have her statement (evidence) that it was non-consensual. That's all you need. She is not obligated to participate in litigation to assert the truth that she was forced to engage in sex (which he acknowledges occured) without her consent (which - frankly - on which she is the only voice of authority)
standingtall
(2,785 posts)he is either guilty or he isn't and if he did it and is found guilty he should've been in jail and should still go to jail.
Ms. Toad
(34,075 posts)Whether he should go to jail is a completely separate question of whehter the women who survived his attacks are obligated to satisfy some desire on your part to punish him. Participating in the legal system in the aftermath of a rape is extremely traumatic - and many women choose their own mental helath over bringing the perpetrator to justice. That is their right.
As I noted, neither of the women who have come forward are interested in pressing charges - they are sharing information they believe voters of Virginia should know in deciding whether to retain Fairfax as Lt. Gov. Making that information public does not obligate them to criminally prosecute Fairfax.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)Ms. Toad
(34,075 posts)and frankly shocked at the number of people who seem stuck in the late 1800s when women (especially black women) were told to sit down and shut up because it might jeopardize black men obtaining the right to vote.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)-if a woman went up to a man's hotel room she asked for it
- if a woman didn't get beat up in protecting her honor she's likely prevaricating
- if a woman is compelled to perform oral sex she should bite off her assailant's penis
- if a woman lodges a complaint she might be a woman scorned
SIGH
Demit
(11,238 posts)I've been following these threads and I recall no such claim. Or any of the others, actually, excepting the last one about a woman's possible motivation which, newsflash, is not an unknown phenomenon.
LexVegas
(6,067 posts)
Demit
(11,238 posts)LexVegas
(6,067 posts) Demit
(11,238 posts)You just don't want to present what people actually said. It might undermine your mischaracterizations of what was said. Things aren't true just because you said so. It's not how it works.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)theboss
(10,491 posts)Here is my favorite post:
First of all, I’m female. I worked in corporate America for decades, attending conferences, company meetings, and industry shows with many opportunities for men and women to communicate on both business and personal levels. Here’s what I have never understood. What is it you expect to happen when you go with a man you’ve recently met to his hotel room? Am I wrong in thinking that such willingness is a clear signal to a male because a public bar or restaurant is clearly the place to go if all you want is to get better acquainted? Maybe I’m just ill informed or naive. What am I missing here?
Demit
(11,238 posts)If I'm reading you right, you're saying 1) that someone's accusation that they were a victim of a crime establishes that a crime was committed and 2) that an accusation is evidence. And the kicker, that an accuser doesn't have to appear in a venue where she can take a solemn oath swearing to her veracity, or be asked questions pertaining to it. The accused must be guilty because the accuser said so.
I'm sorry, that's a tilt too far in the other direction. That's too much power to give to anyone.
Ms. Toad
(34,075 posts)Evidence is a legal term that pertains to court proceedings, and includes statements made from one's personal knowledge. So yes her accusation, if made in court, is evidence.
Guilty is also a legal term - and means that in a court he has been found, by the appropriate weight, to have committed a particular crime. There is not court proceeding - and both women have indicated they are not interested in pursuing criminal matters.
Men who rape generally do so in private, under circumstances that make it less likely they will be caught - some with very deliberate planning to tip the he-said, she-said scales in their favor.
Especially when both parties agree that sexual activity took place, the person making the accusation is the one whose perception is what distinguishes between rape and consent. That person knows whether they consented or not.
I do happen to believe both women. i have not, however, used the word guilty. I believe he acted as Dr. Tyson said he did, without her consent, and that anyone acting in that manner does not have the appropriate temperament to be governor.
Demit
(11,238 posts)Yes, "guilty" is a legal term in the context of the law—it is a VERDICT—but guilty as a concept exists in other contexts, in everyday life, as well. Which is what you and many people here are convinced Fairfax is, without trial.
I'm not going to belabor the point, but you yourself equated her statement with evidence when you wrote "you have her statement (evidence) that it was non-consensual." I think it's a bit cute to say I should research what "evidence" means in the world of law when I was referring to the word in the context that you used it in.
Ms. Toad
(34,075 posts)A statement from one's own personal experience IS evidence. It is legal nonsense to talk about whether or not Fairfax is guilty (a legal concept) while simultaeously insisting there is no evidence The accuser's statement IS evidence. Period.
You then asserted - as to me - that, "But you are insisting that he IS guilty."
I said nothing of the sort. Guilt is established by proving, with the proper evidentiary weight, that (1) he committed certain acts AND (2) that those acts satisfied every element of the crime of which he was accused. He hasn't been charged with a crime - the specific crime with which he might be charged has not been identified (and there are multiple possibilities). Were I on a jury, I would have to listen to the evidence - yes - including the survivor's statement - and determine whether the prosecutor has met evidentiary burden on each and every element.
Believing an accuser that Fairfax committed the acts she said he did is very different from insisting that he is guilty.
I said I believed he committed the acts described. Those acts may - or may not - align with a specific crime. Even if they do not align with a specific crime, that kind of behavior is offensive and (were I in Virginia) I would not want Fairfax in the #2 position.
(As an example, since you seem to think I'm playing games, in many states a woman cannot be raped by her husband - absent some level of force. Lack of consent is not sufficient to establish rape. If someone in the Lt. Governor's position routinely had sex with his wife without consent - even in a state in which that is not a crime - I would still want him to step down from the position because that behavior is offensive and should be criminal, even though it is not.)
Demit
(11,238 posts)I think you need to be right. That's why you keep insisting that these words only have meaning in the law and nowhere else. Most people understand how to use the words "guilty" and "evidence" in everyday life. If you avoid those words in everyday life because they only have a narrow meaning for you, fine. But you are unusual. What you are arguing here seems to me to be a distinction without a difference.
We might be talking past one another so I suggest we be done with this exchange. I know I am.
Ms. Toad
(34,075 posts)If you're talking about guilt and court matters, the survivor's statement IS evidence. I was responding to a post that insisted otherwise:
This assertion was made after the survivor provided a 1st person accounting, which means the poster does not believe a survivor's statement is evidence - a false statement that suggests that whenever the rapist is smart enough to not leave bruises or a third party witness, there can never be a conviction because the survivor's statement is not evidence.
theboss
(10,491 posts)This seems to be reaching its final stage.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)triron
(22,007 posts)al.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)... illegal wars but we should have some kind of graduated responses vs taking a sledgehammer to fruit flies.
moondust
(19,993 posts)When savage Repugs saw how easy it was to get rid of a sitting United States Senator named Al Franken they probably licked their lips and started immediately making plans and rounding up prospects. These things MUST BE INVESTIGATED!
Mr. Fairfax has categorically denied any wrongdoing.
peggysue2
(10,832 posts)I was afraid this would happen. This is the other shoe with a lead sole, weaponized and ready to go. As soon as you get multiple complaints and allegations it all goes from bad to worse. And this is a full-fledged rape accusation with corroboration from classmates at the time of the assault.
Disastrous.
This is also why Virginia's Democratic Party and membership eased off the pedal in demanding an immediate resignation from Northam. Because until this is sorted out, Northam and Herring (for better or worse) are the only guards at the gate.
brush
(53,788 posts)It seems like it was pretty common back then.
Hope the Virginia Dems are doing oppo research on him just as was done on Northam.
peggysue2
(10,832 posts)only makes sense at this point in time. What I've read being discussed is a holding pattern for now, and then a scheduled resignation demand once other Democratic candidates have been selected and are ready to occupy those leadership positions.
And yes, please: deep, deep opposition research on any candidate to eliminate shocking revelations or past misdeeds.
Of course, Fairfax deserves an opportunity to respond to this latest allegation. I may have missed it but I haven't seen anything out there yet.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)You can't just select a democratic candidate to replace the ones who resign. If all three at the top resign next in line is a republican.
brush
(53,788 posts)hense the need for oppo research.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)I don't think so.
brush
(53,788 posts)Again, hence the need for oppo research.
mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)Unless the GOPper is in legal custody at the time, he's not COMPELLED to NOT take office ... no matter what any of us think.
Fairfax and Herring, similarly, can only be disqualified by themselves (short of a recall-type situation).
The Republican WILL NOT do any such thing.
peggysue2
(10,832 posts)designate and appoint a new Lt. Governor if Justin Fairfax were to be pushed out. That replacement would be the new Governor when Northam stepped down and could then appoint his/her own Lt. Governor. If however you knock off all three top leadership positions then the President of the Senate (the Republican who won by a coin toss) would step into the Governor's Mansion.
It's a mess!
Cha
(297,318 posts)smart to stay on to ensure Virginia stays in Democratic hands?
I know there are some worthwhile Dems there to lead and keep it out of Fascism.
peggysue2
(10,832 posts)life is often stranger than fiction! And yes, like or not Northam's refusal to step down (and he's now said that with the Fairfax debacle he's remaining in place) might end up saving a complete election turnover to the Republicans. How well he'll be able to govern is the other question but I have no doubt it'll be better than turning the state over to the GOP.
Incredible!
Cha
(297,318 posts)over the state to trumputin doormats.
Oh did he actually say that more or less.. that he was staying in place because of the Fairfax allegations?
So right.. we are living the Twilight Zone.
Cha
(297,318 posts)snip//
Fairfax has unequivocally denied Tyson's accusation, and denied the new accusation from Watson in a statement.
"I deny this latest unsubstantiated allegation. It is demonstrably false. I have never forced myself on anyone ever," Fairfax said.
"I demand a full investigation into these unsubstantiated and false allegations," he said. "Such an investigation will confirm my account because I am telling the truth."
"I will clear my good name and I have nothing to hide. I have passed two full field background checks by the FBI and run for office in two highly contested elections with nothing like this being raised before," he said.
More..
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/08/second-woman-accuses-virginia-lt-gov-justin-fairfax-of-sexual-assault.html
So he's either a sociopathic rapist or he knows their allegations aren't true.
I don't disbelieve Dr Virginia Tyson or Meredith Watson.. just saying.. due process.
peggysue2
(10,832 posts)CatMor
(6,212 posts)when the alleged incidents happened. They do rape kits at a hospital.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Oh, never mind. What's the point? Asking that question in 2019 suggests you won't believe my answer anyway ...
CatMor
(6,212 posts)there should be no shame in it in this day and age. It is much easier to investigate when it happened. I'm for getting rapists off the street but the accused also has the right to a investigation
TCJ70
(4,387 posts)...that they’ve come forward. That’s just the right thing to do. If nothing comes of it, that’s the way it is. But everyone deserves due process.
CatMor
(6,212 posts)my question is why don't they report it when it happened. The chance of getting a rapist off the street is much greater by reporting it and doing a rape kit. If a friend or coworker came and told me they had been raped I would insist they go to the police.
moriah
(8,311 posts)Not every rape leaves evidence that could be construed as evidence of forcible compulsion or drugging, and at the same time, sometimes very enthusiastic consensual encounters (or being in a rush, but still consenting) can lead to bruising or tearing. There's a wide range of medial exam findings, and only rarely does a DNA match on a less-than-obviously beaten person alone disprove a defense claim that it was a consensual encounter.
And when one IS raped, files a report, and nothing comes of it -- well... it can feel like a second betrayal, this time by the police or prosecutors.
I do start worrying when "the pile-on" starts, because usually later accusations aren't scrutinized as thoroughly as the first to hit the news. Any accusation should be looked at individually first, and unless there *was* evidence of how she described the encounter to others prior to hearing Tyson's allegation... trying to call it a pattern too quickly is rushing to conclusions.
But I can also say after my own experience of reporting when there just wasn't enough hard evidence to *prove* he raped me... I'd be hesitant to report in the future unless it was a much worse experience, and focus on trying to heal. Since it never got to a courtroom, I don't know if my report made a bit of difference in helping anyone else -- he *was* arrested for physically assaulting another woman less than six months after the whole thing made me move to another city, but I have no idea if them previously investigating him for rape made them more or less likely to take that woman seriously. He still didn't get jail time.
CatMor
(6,212 posts)I still think assaults and rapes should be reported. At least there is a chance of the rapist being prosecuted.
moriah
(8,311 posts)To their own healing.
While I do try to encourage anyone who discloses to me to report if they can handle that additional stress, point out that for some people it really can be helpful psychologically, and I will make the report myself if the person is a child (I am a mandated reporter)...
I sincerely doubt I could handle reporting again unless, as I said, the situation was different. If there was more concrete proof, if it was the rare case of a total stranger so there would be no way for them to claim consent and it possibly be believed, if I had more physical scars instead of "just" psychological ones... etc.
Otherwise I would be terrified reading the final report, where they said they believed the victim but the prosecutor didn't feel there was enough evidence to take it to trial, would set me back again.
Empowerer
(3,900 posts)But do you think that if an accuser feels strong and sure enough to make a public accusation against her alleged assailant and she can still file criminal charges under the law that she also has an obligation to press charges so that she doesn't just leave an uninvestigated and uncorroborated allegation out hanging out there?
Not wanting to go to the police is one thing. That's fine. But if she doesn't want to go to the police is right or fair that she should she be able to throw out an accusation in public without any consequences?
#MeToo fought for the right of women to safely seek and obtain justice. I don't think it was intended to allow women to accuse men of crimes from the rooftops and then just go home.
brush
(53,788 posts)so justice can be found. Fairness for all involved.
moriah
(8,311 posts)I sincerely doubt he will, but one never knows.
But he wasn't the first to be inappropriate with me. I was groomed by a person I met in the local BBS communities when I was 12, before "grooming" was a crime in and of itself. I know exactly who he is and where he lives, and mainly keep track of that information so I know if he moves back to our hometown to avoid the area of town his parents live in. While potentially there could have been charges under older Arkansas law, I stopped things before he got much further than shocking me with a kiss -- so I really don't know if there could have been charges or not.
What I did know was that even had it gotten to the point of obvious law-breaking, I was barely able to restrain my father from attempting to take matters into his own hands based on the little I *did* say to anyone.
I confided in two people in the BBS community about it -- a woman who'd "taken his side" before but had gotten a little distant from the community in general, who immediately said the reason she'd started to stay away from him was that he had raped her (he'd said before they had a consensual sexual encounter), and a System Operator of one BBS -- a guy who was in the military, and his wife, who had also met my family, and a member of the local organization of "SysOps". I'm glad I just had to say what I did and no more, and it was enough, at least to get him out of my life. He was banned from all systems in our local calling area that used aliases, and call-back identification was implemented. Nobody else ever talked to me about it, he just was gone -- though the SysOp I disclosed to did let me know that the callback ID showed several attempts to make new aliases on his system before giving up.
What would I do if, God forbid, his career path had taken him into politics vs tech?
I honestly don't know. According to the law that existed then, the only criminal thing he did wasn't to me and wasn't reported to the police, and he was obviously going to go with consent as his defense if it ever had been taken there (likely telling me, if he did do it, was part of the cover story). It's a lot more Roy Moore-esque that a grown man groomed a pre-teen for nearly a year and then tried to make advances, but at the same time, it wasn't illegal so no police report.
And while I was a kid, still, remember I discussed my father's reaction to learning he'd "made me uncomfortable" (I didn't even say "kiss", Dad *would* have had to have been restrained).
Sometimes women don't disclose because they have people who only know how to express their anger at what happened with threats of violence. It may seem supportive, but hearing all your life from the people who feel the duty to protect you that any person who harms you will come to great harm themselves ... well, it is actually counterproductive for disclosure. Which can extend even into the college timeframe. Going to the police obviously means the parents have to know the whole story.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)... more victimized by reporting sexual assault
when I was raped, it took me nearly 10 years to fully realize and accept the fact that it was rape. I said no, I yelled at him and hit him and still didn't accept that I had been raped.
The mind is powerful, especially when it tries to shield you from suffering and trauma.
This happened in the 90's, when the term "date rape" was used like it was a lesser offense than "actual" rape. That made it easier to dismiss what happened to me, like it was nothing more than a bad date and I must have "lead him on."
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)That's a vague headline.
LexVegas
(6,067 posts)dansolo
(5,376 posts)When there was just one uncorroborated accusation, I wanted to wait to see if more came out. Now that there is a second accusation, with corroberation, the situation is different.
What I find even more disturbing is that there seems to be a pattern forming, where he seems to have gone after women who were vulnerable because of previous sexual assaults. This I find disgusting.
