Paper Ballots Anyone?

[2naSalit]

We need to demand to our states, all of them and any place in the Us and Territories where elections take place should be by paper ballot. If we demand it now, there can be no excuses about not enough time or any other reason. 20 months should be sufficient to convert, the nation depends on this transition back to paper ballots and all the protections we should have can be facilitated with a paper ballot system. It worked before computers, it can still work now.

Let's do this, it's a no-brainer and the time is now.

[Onyrleft]

1. It's a must,

we have to do this.

[fierywoman]

2. We have them in WA state and all mail-in, so everyone can easily vote.

[MurrayDelph]

10. Oregon has them, too

Our Senator Ron Wyden wants to make the Oregon/Washington model the law of the land.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

3. no electronic voting of any kind

Smart phone, online, voting machine -- they all share the same shortfalls. People cannot see what happens in the machine. When you 'click', you cannot confirm the device, machine, or "app" did what you intended. The only thing you can verify is that it changed something. The public cannot verify that you participated in a valid election process.

With paper ballots:
1. The voter can confirm the ballot reflects the choices of the voter.
2. The voter can confirm the ballot was placed in the proper receptacle for all ballots.
3. The public can verify that the voter placed 1 ballot in the proper receptacle.
4. The public can verify that the receptacle is not tampered with.
5. The public can verify the count of the ballots.

Electronic means of voting eliminate all of the above, for the sake of reporting a fast number that cannot be verified to be associated with actual votes.

[2naSalit]

16. Indeed...nt

[pansypoo53219]

4. paper here in milw.

[2naSalit]

17. Which one?

The one in Wisconsin or the one in Oregon?

[pansypoo53219]

37. WI. and i voed early.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

5. Paper ballots in Santa Fe.

Also, during the lengthy advance voting time, and now on election day itself, you can go to any polling station anywhere in the county and they print up the precise ballot you need on the spot. What should happen everywhere.

[akraven]

6. Been doing that since 1980.

AND keeping a copy!

[2naSalit]

18. Best Idea, I do that too.

Never got to vote by mail until I moved to Montana but I don't recall ever using a machine or computer to vote, even when I lived in southern California some time ago we were using paper punch cards.

[2naSalit]

7. It's great to hear of all these places that have paper ballots...

We need to help everyone else get them. there are still too many places where the electronics are "the thing" so we should try to help those voters get paper ballots.

[Greywing]

8. Colorado was using vote by mail as an option for a few years

and as of a couple of election cycles ago we all receive our "paper" ballots in the mail. You can mail them back, take them to a polling place and fill out the ballot there or return to a secured collection box. You can also track when your ballot was sent to you and when it was accepted. I think it works great!

[2naSalit]

9. We do that in Montana. I vote by mail

but it's called absentee. We can deliver it however as long as they get it by election day. I like that process. Regardless of whether it's mail in or at the polls, votes should be cast on paper, period.

In the states where paper is not the means by which to cast a vote, we have to demand it of the secretaries of state in those states.

[UCmeNdc]

11. Agree

[alfredo]

12. The Precincts, and counties should hand delivered ballots to the state.

Big states like Texas and Alaska might have trouble getting the results in a timely manner, but what's the hurry. There should always be at least two persons representing both parties in possession of the ballots at all times. Chain of custody is a top priority. If they are electronically transferred to DC, the encryption better be the strongest they can make.

[2naSalit]

13. Remember when they used telephones?

I do. I think that you are correct about chain of command and what's the hurry elements. I know we can do it and with the integrity required.

Two things made me get all fired up about this yesterday.

1. The reports of the latest hacking events.
2. Talking with a psychotherapist who claimed that the majority of the people and clients they know have no faith in government, no faith in elections, the justice system (all of it), the legislature. They lamented a sense of giving up among them, they are tired of all this shit while starving in the streets. I agree, I was living on the street for ten months recently, the primary objective of every day is survival at the most elementary levels. This needs to change.

People are down, what happens in the immediate and near future is crucial. Faith in government needs some restoration. The Blue Wave election was a nice flicker of light at the end of the sewer pipe, there's still a ways to go... just how far it is to the end of the pipe is up to us at the state level as much as the federal.

A simple place to start is ensuring free and fair elections and that can only be accomplished by physical ballots that can be recounted with confidence of result. And that is at the state level. IIRC, results were actually phoned to the central counting place, as long as there are physical ballots to back it up, what's the problem?

And it could help create jobs with Public Trust requirements, no volunteers for jobs with responsibility.

[alfredo]

19. We have 260 precincts in our county, they better have a lot of phones.

We would hand carry our results to the county clerk.

[2naSalit]

20. Whatever safe and secure way that it can be done, has to be done.

I can't figure out a 50 logistical plan in less than a month but I know that each state has the capacity to do this and do it properly and they can figure out the logistics. They have over 18 months to get their shit together, less for primaries of course, but they still have time to make the shift if they get strong notice from their constituents now, not 6 months from now.

Legislatures are going back into session, as in my state, they meet for several months every year and set a two year budget. They are not in session all that long so it is imperative to get their attention now.

[alfredo]

41. They need the will to do it.

So far the security of the vote in our county has been very good, and the chain of custody is strong. The main tabulator is isolated from the internet. I worked the polls for 14 years and have faith in the ethics of those that run the show.

We will have paper back up by 2020.

[lunatica]

14. In New Mexico I voted on a paper ballot

It was run through a scanner when I was finished. Having used the scanner for years at the University of California I think they’re safe.

It can’t be hard to convert every state to paper ballots.

[2naSalit]

15. Well, I certainly agree and there's plenty of time if they start changing now.

This has to be done.

[lunatica]

35. New Mexico also has a couple of other nice voting features

Early voting and you aren’t confined to any precinct so if you’re driving past polling location you can just stop there to vote. Since NM has Real ID now, which is just as good as a passport for ID, they just find you in their system and hand you the paper ballot. It’s easy peazy though getting the Real ID has really strict steps. But when you get the Real ID you can register to vote at the same time.

[brooklynite]

21. People also stole elections with paper ballots...

There is no safe solution to voting.

[2naSalit]

22. There are ways to secure them

and how about a copy of the ballot for each voter so that verification can be done through producing the ballot copies which can be stamped or something? Like I said, I can't assess all the logistics but I know it's possible and needs to happen.

[brooklynite]

24. What are you comparing your ballot copy with?

All you'll know is the aggregate total.

[2naSalit]

27. Like I said, I don't have all the answers...

There are public servants who would be able to create a system, perhaps like it used to be done prior to computerized voting, to function in their states in such a way as to do their best to verify votes by a secondary physical proof system.

Please, I said I don't have all the answers.

This is a participatory system of government, why should I come up with all the ideas and correct answers for millions and millions of voters? Everybody needs to participate and I am trying to remind everyone that we have an immediate problem that needs to be addressed with expediency and since it affects me, even though I vote by mail, I am calling attention to the issue with a suggestion or two.

Jeezus, I need another cup of coffee.

[lunatica]

34. Nothing like running into a wall

is there?

[2naSalit]

36. That was just strange.

[MineralMan]

23. We have them in Minnesota.

If your state doesn't, it's time to get to work there. Contact your state legislators and tell them what you want.

[2naSalit]

25. Thank you!

[samnsara]

26. washington and oregon already have 100% paper ballots..no election day..no polls..

..wash even pre stamps our return envelope. I think Oregon has a QR code or some verification so you can track that your ballot has been received and counted.

[MontanaMama]

28. 100% on board with paper ballots

and if takes longer to count them then so what, it is worth it. I always vote absentee in MT and take a copy or a photo of my ballot before I walk it into an elections office and put it in the black box myself. Paper ballots are the way to go.

[2naSalit]

29. That's exactly what I do, in Montana!

[MontanaMama]

32. You gotta walk your ballot in

to the elections office so you can get the little “I voted” sticker!

[2naSalit]

33. That's right! And I have abunch of 'em...nt

[IADEMO2004]

30. Paper Ballots EVERYONE and radom hand counts to audit for accuracy.

Iowa just started in 2018 at last.

Still have GOP fuckery to deal with of what is a postmark to verify dates of early voting.

[montanacowboy]

31. Washington Has Had Paper Ballots

for a long time

We all vote by mail!
Time the rest of the country got on board and threw those crooked piece of shit voting machines on the ash heap of history

[TrogL]

38. We have them in Canada with no problems

[LongtimeAZDem]

39. XKCD on Paper Ballots

There are lots of very smart people doing fascinating work on cryptographic voting protocols. We should be funding and encouraging them, and doing all our elections with paper ballots until everyone currently working in that field has retired.

https://m.xkcd.com/2030/?fbclid=IwAR0flFzgfBnPfAMuJqqSgT3vqLZf6oU0joApAyKNjFt1PHHUffdgYvugI18

[2naSalit]

40. At the evry least.

Good toon!