Michael Cohen postpones his Feb. 7 House testimony after threats to his family--from President Trump

[brooklynite]

Um, what?

Link to tweet

[spanone]

1. Isn't that the ULTIMATE OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE????

Last edited Wed Jan 23, 2019, 03:47 PM - Edit history (1)

Mob Justice

Witness tampering is the act of attempting to alter or prevent the testimony of witnesses within criminal or civil proceedings. Laws regarding witness

tampering also apply to proceedings before the U.S. Congress, executive departments, and administrative agencies. To be charged with witness tampering in

the United States, the attempt to alter or prevent testimony is sufficient. There is no requirement that the intended obstruction of justice be completed.[1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witness_tampering

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

2. Sure looks like it to me.

[DemocracyMouse]

61. What looks like it?

Could somebody please post Trump’s threat here?

[tblue37]

64. Trump has twice tweeted about looking into Cohen's father-in-law's business, and has done

so in tweets complaining about Cohen testifying against Trump.

[whathehell]

92. He suggested that Cohen's father in law be investigated..

It's messed up, but I don't understand how it actually qualifies as a "threat".

[Baitball Blogger]

23. ding, ding, ding.

[defacto7]

79. Folks, we have a dictator!

.. in waiting. All he needs to compete his goal is use force against lawful practice or persons.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

42. Yes, sickening...one of the top ten

[onit2day]

43. MAGA hats are symbols of intimidation, the modern KKK hoods, the brownshirts

Trump's latest attack on America dares our democracy to stand up and physically remove this terrorist from office as he threatens his accusers, puts children in cages, and terrorizes the families of gov employees and disrupts our national security. We must demand his removal. He has no right to shutdown our government.

[Saviolo]

66. It's the modern American Fascist movement

Cody Johnston breaks it down really well here:

and here:

and I highly recommend this podcast about the roots of American fascism:

The Birth of American Fascism part 1:
https://www.behindthebastards.com/podcasts/part-one-the-birth-of-american-fascism.htm

The Birth of American Fascism part 2:
https://www.behindthebastards.com/podcasts/part-two-the-birth-of-american-fascism.htm

[onetexan]

45. Good God, i'm offline for 3 hours and another explosive situation - another obstruction in broad

daylight. Where are our leaders? Have this criminal arrested and lock him up!!

[lunatica]

52. Did Lanny Davis just checkmate Trump?

I’m keeping my fingers crossed!

[Duppers]

54. +1000 !!

[Grasswire2]

3. the "threats" must be the comments about father in law? nt

[jberryhill]

6. Yes

I don't know why there's any confusion about it.

The threat was POSTED ON TWITTER BY THE PRESIDENT.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

26. which cops can arrest Agent Orange for the threats?

I'm well aware that impeachment is the method of removal from office, but arresting is not taking his office.

Even if it fails, I'd love to see D.C. cops, SS, U.S. Marshals Service, or FBI arrest that ignorant bully.

[Achilleaze]

37. The republican Senate could take a stand for law and order

But that's never going to happen. republicans stand for shit when it comes to controlling their own.

[suffragette]

38. Strange days: "The threat was POSTED ON TWITTER BY THE PRESIDENT."

Sums up how bizarre current times are.

[bdamomma]

40. oh yes it was

we have a mafia thug, that is all he is. Hate him. He won't win, he won't.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

44. Gotta get a movement revived to get him kicked

Off Twitter for breaking rules... inciting violence/harm to individuals. People say they won't kick him off but if it's an organized effort and the rules are clear it could be possible.

[tblue37]

65. Twice. Sorry--first threat was in a FOX interview, not a tweet:

In a Fox News interview this month, Trump also suggested he had damaging information on Cohen's father-in-law. "That's the one that people want to look at," Trump said in the interview.

The tweet with the other threat:

Link to tweet

?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1086277705916502017&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rawstory.com%2F2019%2F01%2Fwitness-intimidation-internet-gasps-trump-threatens-michael-cohens-father-law-angry-tweet%2F

[jberryhill]

4. Trump threatened his father-in-law on Twitter

I'm not sure what you mean by "what?" given that the threat was communicated by the president on Twitter.

[DemocracyMouse]

60. Could somebody please post Trump's threat here?

[tblue37]

69. See my post #65 (just a couple above yours). nt

[jberryhill]

76. .

It's up above, but attracted quite a bit of press attention at the time:

Link to tweet

[uponit7771]

5. Good move Cohen

[msongs]

8. just puts it off. might as well say he is never going to appear. nt

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

7. God dammit.

Don't tell me....he'll reschedule for July? Fucker should be in jail. Safe and sound. He helped create all this. The case for treason doesn't rely on one man. Or obstruction. GET CRACKING MUELLER. Congress etc can't do all your work for you. Prove me wrong. PLEASE.

[bearsfootball516]

11. Start preparing for how you'll help the Democratic nominee win in 2020.

Take matters into your own hands to get Trump out instead of expecting Mueller to do it for you.

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

17. I just helped w the Blue Wave. Can we get anything for that before you lecture me about the NEXT

campaign winners that won't mean shit? Life isn't a perpetual campaign.

[2naSalit]

33. +1

[orangecrush]

70. +2

[pangaia]

48. IF..IF there is an election in 2020, much less a fair one.

[triron]

14. If Trump is not removed very soon, we will soon live in a tyrannical dictatorship.

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

19. "President for life...We should try that."

[PJMcK]

18. Really? You think Mueller hasn't been doing his job?

Can you share what you know about Mr. Mueller’s investigation? It seems that you think he’s wasting time and money.

Frankly, I’ll let the career professional run the show rather than an internet chat-board.

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

20. Can you show me different? Presidents still in the WH.

[PJMcK]

25. Sure

Mr. Mueller’s mandate is not to remove the president. It’s really that simple.

Meanwhile, he’s scored dozens of indictments, pleas and convictions and continues his investigation under the terms set by Rod Rosenstein.

Don’t get me wrong- I want to see Trump ousted, too. But that is Congress’s job, not the Special Counsel’s.

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

31. It's everybody's job.

When it's too late...it's too late. I'm not glib about letting a county I love just fade away wo even a comment I guess.

[manor321]

22. I'm disappointed, too, but it probably wasn't going to be all that important

It would have made for great TV, but he wasn't going to answer any questions relating to ongoing investigations.

And, remember, Republicans would have also asked questions to attack his character.

Also, Cohen is a dumbass. He may very well just have come across as a dumbass loser.

It might be better this way.

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

27. But we've wasted another week. I agree. It probably was going to be shuttered at the last

minute...
This is how he got over two years in, arbitrary dates to talk to Congress. Scheduling things months out. On and on. The American People are always the last group to be taken into account it seems. Tell it to the 1 million people working wo pay mike, poor you. He said he was sorry for what he's done...show us. Thats why he should've come to Congress wn 48 hours.

[jberryhill]

28. You fail to appreciate the significance of this

Witness intimidation is a substantial charge for the impeachment committee to consider.

[2naSalit]

35. +1

With Cohen declining to testify for that very reason makes the charge of obstruction solid. Witness refuses to testify due to threats from cheatolini, cheatolini is guilty of obstruction in the first degree, period.

Thank you, Michael Cohen.

[tblue37]

73. Cohen probably isn't even that scared about what Trump has said, but his lawyers,

who are way better than Giuliani, undoubtedly advised him to postpone his testimony, citing fear for his family and thus cornering Trump in an obvious felony: obstruction, witness intimidation, witness tampering.

[jberryhill]

77. Also correct

It may have some of the "soccer penalty" theatrics to it.

[tblue37]

82. But just as it's hard to prove deliberate obstruction because it's hard to

prove corrupt intent, I imagine it's even harder to prove that a witness isn't really scared, especially when a person in a powerful office, someone everyone knows has ties to both the Russian mob and the Mafia, repeatedly hints that a member of the witness's family might have some trouble coming his way.

It sounds like he's saying, "Nice father-in-law ya got there. Be a shame if anything happened to him."

[jberryhill]

87. In context that is perceived as a threat

Coming from someone other than the President of the United States, it might have less of an objective impact.

It's enough to go to a jury.

The standard is, as you put it, the intent of the tamperer and not whether the witness is actually intimidated. However, if the witness is intimidated in fact, then that certainly doesn't hurt. Also, the "threat" must be understood in the context of the relationship between Trump and Cohen, and what Cohen would have to say about "how Trump makes threats".

[Traildogbob]

56. Ditto on the God Damnit.

February 7th is my birthday and already have a rum cake ordered and was so damn happy for the gift of watching AOC et. al, grill his ass all day and eat the whole damn cake. Every day that orange ass hole pisses me off with something new. This one takes the cake, until the next time the Putin Holster is open and moving.

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

57. Well...it'll be a better birthday.

Happy RELAXED Birthday w that Rum Cake.

[Traildogbob]

59. Thank you

actually need to be happy to make another one under under the threat of the entire GOP.

[Raven]

9. I guess I'm in a letter writing mood today...I'd

write him back and ask what the Committee could do to insure his safety.

[John Fante]

10. This only bolsters an obstruction of justice charge. Good.

[triron]

15. So?

[John Fante]

24. So that's a big-time impeachable offense, a major felony.

It's more appropriate to call it witness tampering.

[thegoose]

12. Gangster

Fucking gangster!

[NightWatcher]

13. Wow, so intimidating a witness' family works???

[Mr. Ected]

16. We were going to get a watered-down version of his testimony anyway

Serious limitations would have been placed on Cohen and the public would only be privy to a handful of bombshells. I'm sure the full scale of damage that Cohen could inflict on Trump and his family would be akin to a war zone in comparison.

This underscores the witness tampering count that will surely be included in Trump's criminal indictments. Yet another felony crime perpetrated in broad daylight with 4 billion witnesses for which there can be no effective defense.

[2naSalit]

36. +1

[uponit7771]

88. RIGHT !!!

[Iliyah]

21. Soooooooooooooooo, t-rump is threatening Cohen's family via tweeter

and wrote a letter to Pelosi (t-rump did not write it) bogarting his way onto the House of Representative's building and that's ok with his Republican party?

[Dave Starsky]

32. If you or I ever threatened someone on Twitter...

We would be banned forever... probably within seconds.

That this giant orange asstrumpet has been repeatedly allowed to get away with this is just fucking unbelievable.

[uponit7771]

49. Yep, Red Don hasn't hugged a brown skinned person so the KOP is game

[cilla4progress]

29. So what's up

with the father-in-law?

[tblue37]

74. Shady taxi medallion business in New York. nt

[duforsure]

30. Cohen is helping Mueller ,

So by doing this it could be from Mueller not wanting him to do this, and Cohen from being threatened may have opened up even more to Mueller and others against trump and others involved from being threatened. They may have people looking for people for other threats linked to individual 1 or putin.

[spanone]

34. Kick

[wryter2000]

39. Okay

Obstruction of justice right there. No more proof needed.

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

47. While crickets chirp...the sun rises and sets, people work without pay, he kiboshes our allies,

the globe is WARMING, etc etc etc, Yeah, it's great news...if somebody would act on it. Therein lies the rub.

[Varaddem]

41. Is it RIKO or RICO?

[tblue37]

75. RICO. nt

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

46. He should be in jail. Not playing games w his testimony.

If you can't testify, (as per your pre-sentencing agreement/promise to cooperate) then, go to jail. Going to be hard to protect the "fam' when you're in the "slam' mike. These are YOUR people Mike. Redeem yourself. Where's that really loud big mouth who threatened everybody w legal wastelands mike? You're a coward and a crook. Feb. 7th.....Gahhh. As if he had anything to do BUT get threatened by setting the date out that far. We ALLLL just fell off the old turnip truck mike...

[pangaia]

50. It is the GOP the GOP!!

We need to keep shouting that everywhere.

The GOP is bringing down American democracy !!!!!!!

[world wide wally]

53. Just arrest the fucking clown

[AlexSFCA]

55. very convinient reason to not testify

this will set a precedent of witnesses not testifying due to threats. Makes precisely zero sense to allow this to happen. Subpoena must be complied with or extra jail time.

[turbinetree]

58. And if anyone where to threaten him or his family in the White House...............

the FBI, The Secret Service.......................would arrest the person(s) that did this....................the "guy" in the white house is not above the law, and Cohen should file charges against him ........................

[DemocracyMouse]

62. Could somebody please post Trump's threat here?

[tblue37]

63. Obstruction, witness tampering, witness intimidation. nt

[Calista241]

67. I kinda feel like he didn't want to testify.

There's no upside for him to do so. He's already pled guilty, and he's already going to jail. He can only put himself in more legal jeopardy by confessing to additional acts to make the President look bad. And I suspect the House Dems weren't going to offer him immunity to start talking about shit.

His tweet about Cohen's Dad wasn't all that threatening IMO.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

72. He can't be charged with any crimes arising from the same conduct

he was convicted of - that's double jeopardy. He could be charged with perjury if he lies to the committee, but he no longer has any incentive to do that. There is an upside, which is the possibility of a reduced in his sentence for further cooperation in cases where indictments haven't been issued yet.

[Calista241]

81. What's the point of bringing him in to talk about shit he's pled guilty to?

He's also already pled guilty to lying to the Congress. Everyone who cares about it can read his plea agreement and sentencing documents and learn everything they need to. Anything he says that's not true that's not covered in the agreement, he legally liable for.

Every single GOP Rep is going to be up there, "you lied to me last time you were up here, and you're going to jail for it" and that's going to reduce the effectiveness of anything he says to anyone.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

85. Any prosecutor will tell you that it takes a crook to catch a crook.

In criminal cases they often use witnesses who are other criminals to testify against a defendant. The charge is always made that since this witness is a known liar, why should we believe him now? There are a couple of answers, one of which is the possibility of another perjury charge. Cohen could be charged with lying to Congress again, if he does it, even though he was convicted of that crime before, because it wouldn't arise out of the same course of conduct (different lies). The other answer is that the testimony of such witnesses is almost always backed up with some form of corroboration, which I am sure exists as to whatever Cohen might say (note that he will not be testifying about the Russia investigation per an agreement with Mueller).

[jberryhill]

89. That's a little simplistic, though

Taking that argument of "he's a convicted liar, so what he has to say doesn't matter", you have to go back a step and consider:

And what was he convicted of lying about?

The thing that he lied about was, in fact, an attempt to conceal the fact that negotiations about Trump Tower continued well into the campaign.

So the "he's a convicted liar" argument hinges on admitting that Trump was still dealing with Moscow when the campaign was on.

The Republicans can't have it both ways.

They can't say "Cohen is a convicted liar" and "Trump wasn't negotiating with Russia during the campaign".

In order to agree that "Cohen is a liar", they have to admit that Trump was dealing with Russians.

And that bring us to the most important point about "Cohen is a liar".


Why did Cohen lie, and to whose benefit did Cohen lie?


COHEN LIED TO PROTECT TRUMP.

It's not really a problem for Cohen if he was dealing with Russians on Trump's behalf for well into the campaign. Cohen had no independent reason to lie about that subject to Congress.

The only reason for Cohen to have lied to Congress was for Trump's benefit.

Clearly, that incentive is no longer present.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

68. I wonder whether there have been other threats that were not made publicly.

"Nice little father-in-law ya got there, be a shame if anything happened to him..."

And I also wonder whether Lanny Davis is doing this in order to induce the committee to subpoena Cohen so as to mitigate the RW's inevitable claims that Cohen is a rat who's just trying to hurt Trump. While this may be true, forcing him to testify via a subpoena takes at least a little wind out of that sail.

[dameatball]

78. I think this also magnifies the threat implication that many people may have overlooked. Trump

making things worse for himself as usual by putting out that tweet.

[Ligyron]

91. Right, Cohen needs some cover to testify.

"But they made me talk Dumpy! Yes, even the parts where you begged the Russian hookers to stick those feathers up your ass and dress you in that pink peek-a-boo with the bunnies on it you always like to wear!" I can't do any more jail time, my family blah, blah, blah..."

Sumpin like that anyway.

[orangecrush]

71. This is bullshit

Reel th weasel in..

[ananda]

80. What do the leaders say ... like Schiff etc???

nt

[Onyrleft]

83. Another possible ending for the Trump Administration.

They could suddenly go to a blank screen over the song Don't Stop Believin'.

[LW1977]

84. K&R

[First Speaker]

86. We have an open gangster in the White House...

...and a third of the country, and an entire major party, are just fine with it.

[AndJusticeForSome]

90. This totally sucks

Feb 7th was already too late.

Godammit.