The best thing about these big companies doing "woke" ads...

[ehrnst]

[bearsfootball516]

1. Yep. Gillette is a massive company and wouldn't have done this without exhausting market research.

They knew whatever boycott happens with right wing nuts will be significantly offset by revenue gained by people who are happy with them.

Same thing with Nike's Colin Kaepernick stuff. They didn't even feel the tiny bit of loss they got from Trump supporters not buying Nike anymore because their worldwide sales skyrocketed.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

8. Neck-beards don't use razors.

[cannabis_flower]

47. Excuse me

I haven't seen the ad. Can someone provide a link please?

[area51]

51. Here you go.

[Flaleftist]

55. That's what has the right so pissed off?

An ad that basically are just says don't be an asshole? Wow!

[ehrnst]

72. Not just the "right" as this thread shows... (nt)

[uriel1972]

79. Apparently we are a big tent without a purity litmus test... nt

[justhanginon]

2. I've always used Schick razors but will now give Gillette a try.

I personally like the ad i've seen and think it is a welcome message. There are still way to many knuckle draggers out there.

[ZX86]

3. Disagree.

That commercial has all the charm of a pro-life "Don't kill your baby!" ad. Youtube dislikes is reaching nearly 1 million, almost double the likes. I seriously doubt Gillette thinks more than half their customers are worth dumping.

Beyond that the commercial is wrong on so many levels. Bad behavior is not exclusive men. Yet the commercial wallows in disgusting male stereotypes that if directed at any other race or gender would be legitimately called bigotry. How many stories have there been about mean girls harassing some girl to suicide? Or two girls attempting to murder a classmate over Slender man by stabbing her 19 times? Or how about the woman who sticks her roommate's toothbrush in her butt? Or how about all the women who can't let Black people BBQ in the park?

If Gillette came out with a commercial named "Women can do better" and showed a bunch of scenarios of women gossiping, backstabbing, and leaving their kids parked in hot cars I'd feel the same way.

[LanternWaste]

4. You can provide us with the objective numbers

"I seriously doubt Gillette thinks more than half their customers are worth dumping..."

You can provide us with the objective numbers of their customer base divided into the relevant demographics then to support your allegation, yes?

[ZX86]

11. Beyond Youtube Like/Dislike?

No. But it's really on the OP to provide empirical evidence that people disliking the ad campaign are incels and MRA's and are worth dumping.

The commercial is offensive because it asserts that men by default have the morals and ethics of Donald Trump. I don't know anyone (man or woman) that believes that harassing and molesting people is socially acceptable.

[ZX86]

48. Getting stabbed 19 times or being driven to suicide is not being catty.

Minimizing the effects of harassment by women as "catty" is just as bad as, "boys will be boys".

[ehrnst]

67. Dismissing toxic masculinity as "made up" is just as bad as saying

"Racial profiling" is something that was made up a few years ago to mimimize the rampant violence and disrespect for police that black people have. Unless you can prove all police officers as a class are trying to kill black people, there is no problem with racism in police culture."

[ZX86]

69. Toxicity is not exclusive to males.

It's a made up word to promote a political agenda.

[ehrnst]

71. And racism isn't exclusive to police officers.

So does that make racial profiling non-existent and "made up?"

That is how a caucasian Trumper react to reports of racial profiling by police officers....

Or an MRA to someone using the word "misogyny."

[ZX86]

80. If you really want to debate a right winger I suggest you find one.

Your straw man arguments have nothing to do with what I have stated. I'm Black. I have sat on more curbs than I can count as my car was searched because some cop smelled something. I don't need lessons from anyone on police harassment. It's not an intellectual exercise for me. i live in the same zip code as the Rodney King beating.

[uriel1972]

75. First of all...

All words were made up at some point.

And the company is advertising a product targeted at males.

[MLAA]

49. On your last sentence about harassing people....have you watched the trump rallies?

[ZX86]

53. Not really.

Trump rallies aren't my thing. Am I missing anything?

[ehrnst]

63. The anger and defensiveness at men being told that there is toxic masculinity in our culture

Last edited Fri Jan 18, 2019, 02:38 PM - Edit history (1)

sounds very much like people at a Trump rally.

You're welcome.

[uriel1972]

76. Incel much?

[MrsCoffee]

77. OMG are you now going into INCEL territory?

[ehrnst]

81. Well now, there we have it.

men so poor and socially awkward they have to live in their mother's basement and never get laid?

Male entitlement.

Incels (a portmanteau of involuntary celibates) are members of an online subculture who define themselves as unable to find a romantic or sexual partner despite desiring one, a state they describe as inceldom.

[ehrnst]

5. So you're saying that this ad "discriminates against men?"

As in "reverse sexism?"


Seriously?

You whipped out that list of misogynist tropes pretty fast...

[ZX86]

12. Straw man.

If you want to debate an MRA I suggest you find one.

[ehrnst]

14. Your post certainly sounded like it. That list of tropes was pretty well thought out. (nt)

[ZX86]

22. If you really are concerned with harassment

you concerned with all harassment. You don't pick and choose which harassment is problematic.

[ehrnst]

24. You mean like "All Lives Matter?"

Do you stand around at a Run for the Cure with a sign that says "MEN's Cancer is Important TOO!!!"

And yell "You don't PICK AND CHOOSE what cancer to raise awareness about and fundraise for!!!"

[ZX86]

50. If you believe all men as a class harass women you might have a point.

As a Black man I have a problem with White women calling the police on me for existing in public. Yet I would still reject an ad campaign called, "White women could do better".

[ehrnst]

54. Strawman... Also known as "Not all men."

That ad really gets under your skin doesn't it? If you're not a part of that problem, then why are you so defensive towards it?

And no, to say that toxic masculinity is a problem does not = saying "all men as a class have toxic masculinity"

That's also known as a "false dillema."

[ZX86]

68. My post really gets under your skin doesn't?

A "Don't kill your baby!" ad campaign would get the same reaction from me.

Someone saying, "Please don't kill your baby or leave them in a hot car. Now I'm not saying all women leave new born babies in trash cans, young children in hot cars, or drive their kids into lake because they got a new boyfriend. And if this doesn't apply to you, you shouldn't take offense." I would find offensive.

[ehrnst]

78. The very concept of "Toxic Masculinity" sets you off, doesn't it?

Your false equivalence using language you think will "trigger" feminists shows some real resentment towards women.

Does this ad make you feel emasculated? Did a woman make you feel emasculated - and you are mad because you don't think women get equal time being being called out for what one did to you?

You clearly want a fight about this - you are alone in your idea on this thread. It looks like a wish to take all that anger about feeling emasculated out on women and men who aren't as mad at women.

[obamanut2012]

23. Then why the listing of MRA tropes and whataboutism?

You hit all the bingo squares there.

[ZX86]

58. I don't know what the MRA tropes are.

I don't run in those circles.

I reject whataboutism as something to be avoided. Growing up in the civil rights movement I was all about whataboutism. What about the White drinking fountain? What about the front of the bus?

[ehrnst]

61. They're the very ones you listed.

You're welcome.

[ismnotwasm]

65. Are you an MRA?

Just yes or no.

[MrsCoffee]

70. If you don't want to be considered an MRA, don't throw all their talking points around.

You seem to be offended at that label but have no problem repeating their dangerous bullshit.

[obamanut2012]

21. yes, they are saying that -- it is whataboutism

about toxic masculinity and violence against women and children.

textbook

[ismnotwasm]

7. Are you an MRA?

Because that sounds like a MRA rant. Or a MGTOW rant.

[ZX86]

13. Why? Because I don't like seeing Black men told they can do better

from some White dominated corporation.

[ehrnst]

16. So you're comparing this ad with black people being whitesplained by a corporation?

like "racism?"

[ZX86]

26. I see a White dominated coporation

putting out a commercial featuring an over abundance of Black men telling them they need to do better.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

28. An overabundance of black men? Which commercial are you watching?

Is it the one that shows MOC being half of the examples of healthy masculinity? The one that shows a MOC being one out of a dozen bad examples?

[ehrnst]

32. So you're saying that Gillette is a woman-dominated corporation?

And they are putting out ads to make men feel unnecessarily bad about themselves?

Not so much...

https://www.bloomberg.com/research/stocks/private/people.asp?privcapId=29004

You really do sound like an "All Lives Matter" apologist.

[obamanut2012]

25. lulz

[ismnotwasm]

31. Are you an MRA?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

9. LMAOOOOOOOOO.

If Gillette came out with a commercial named "Women can do better"

Right but have you ever seen a commercial.

[Aristus]

10. This sounds an awful lot like "Supporting HIV-positive patients means you hate cancer patients!"

No.

It's just a message apropos of and specific to an important cultural problem right now.

[ZX86]

15. Harassment is not gender specific.

How many young women have been driven to suicide by mean girls harassing them?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

17. The commercial wasn't about harassment. It was about toxic masculinity, which sometimes expresses

itself in sexualized harassment, and other times expresses itself through discouraging emotions, encouraging unnecessary aggression, and acceptance of gender-based roles.

[ZX86]

33. Toxic masculinity is a made up word.

I have comforted more women from the toxic behavior of mean girls than I can count. How many stories right here on DU about some White woman harassing some POC at a school library, public park, boardwalk, etc. It's posted here near daily yet I would would bristle at at ad campaign named, "White women could do better".

[ehrnst]

34. You mean like "police brutality" or "white privilege" "rape culture?"

Were they "made up" too?

And now were going into "I'm not bigoted at all! Some of my best friends...." territory.

[ismnotwasm]

37. White Women CAN do better

White people can and should do better.

Would you prefer to see black males take on toxic masculinity? Many examples are just a google search away. The commercial was not meant to be race specific, but rather gender specific.

[muriel_volestrangler]

39. It's not a word. It's two. And that's not just nitpicking; it shows why you don't understand

It's not saying that 'masculinity' is 'toxic'; it's saying there is a problem when people justify toxic behaviour as 'just an inevitable part of masculinity'.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

41. It's not, actually. It's two words put together to describe a concept we are only now beginning

to understand.

An ad campaign called "white women could do better" would be awesome, actually, because that's also true. "Calling in" can be much more effective than calling out, and this commercial is a great example of it. All of us can do better, but in different ways. A male-dominated company calling in men to do better is one of the most effective ways to effect change.

[NurseJackie]

82. Aw.

Oh brother! Cry me a river.

Toxic masculinity is a made up word.

No it's not. But, actually, I guess when one thinks about it, ALL words are "made-up"... I mean... they had to start somewhere, right? They didn't just materialize out of thin air!

In this case, this particular phrase (not word) is one that very accurately describes the problems and issues. There's no rational reason for any reasonable person to be upset with it. Anyone who chooses to deflect and distract from the issues by claiming that it's "made-up" doesn't really change anything and it indicates a position of weakness or emotional insecurity. All I'm saying is that it serves no good purpose to deny the obvious, or to not accept facts, or to try and be dismissive to people, many of whom are already victimized and marginalized.

[ehrnst]

18. This is beginning to sound very much like "Not All Men" or "All Lives Matter."

[uponit7771]

30. +1

[ZX86]

36. Not at all. It's the oppposite.

That commercial is very much like the "Don't kill your baby" type ads the pro-lifers run.

[ehrnst]

57. Not at all. It's the opposite.

It's like the Colin Kaepernick Nike ad that got so many white people angry and defensive.

Get it?

[ehrnst]

19. Toxic masculinity is indeed gender specific... and if you want to get angry at an ad that calls it

ou you aren't making yourself very credible by complaining that there also needs to be one that criticizes women, because men will get their feelings hurt

As if the 2016 POTUS election didn't do that already...

[uriel1972]

60. Oh poor little MRA Snowflakes got feefee hurt?

My heart bleeds.
Look Men do most of the physical violence around this world, we could use a little reminder now and then, that men can and must do more to stop this.

Disclaimer: I am a form of male.

ps: I am a SJW and proud of it.

[obamanut2012]

20. whataboutism about an ad that denounes bullying and violence

And the public health menace of toxic masculinity.

Your post is ridiculous.

[ZX86]

38. Hyperbole much?

Toxic masculinity is now a public health menace? It's a made up word that nobody heard of a couple years ago.

[gratuitous]

43. It's a diagnosis

Nobody had a diagnosis of TMJ until the early 1990s because the description of the cluster of symptoms hadn't been promulgated by the health care community. Nobody had a diagnosis of AIDS until the early 1980s for the same reason. That doesn't mean people didn't suffer from TMJ or AIDS before those conditions were given an official diagnosis. "Toxic masculinity" has come to be the descriptor for a cluster of symptoms and behavior that have existed for a long time.

Clearly, you're uncomfortable with practitioners of toxic masculine behavior being called out and held accountable for actions that they have gotten away with in the past. Sorry your world has taken such a hit. Maybe tomorrow will be a better day, but it sounds like you're determined to make it a bitter day.

[ismnotwasm]

46. You feel it is a made up concept, not a made up word.

Here is a Meduum essay that may help
https://medium.com/s/man-interrupted/why-we-must-stop-saying-toxic-masculinity-cfe83b9034dc

[ehrnst]

59. That's just silly. Is "systemic racism" also a "made up word" because nobody "heard it" until

recently?

Listen to yourself....

[uponit7771]

29. All lives matter ... Hunh?!!

[ZX86]

44. Straw man.

If you want to discuss that issue with someone you should engage with someone who has said it.

[ehrnst]

64. Your attitude is to this ad is like "All lives matter" is to "Black Lives Matter"

Is that clearer?

[tenderfoot]

74. You should smile more...

you'll look prettier.

[ismnotwasm]

6. K&R

[Initech]

35. If you are offended by that Gillette ad, it's because you fail to get the point of it.

[ZX86]

40. The point of the ad is obivious.

You fail to get the opposition to it.

[Initech]

42. I was referring to the people who are throwing their razors in the toilet.

Those are the ones who are missing the point entirely.

[ZX86]

45. Oh that's just silly.

I hate Exxon. But I don't drain my car of gas every time I come home.

[Initech]

52. So far Trump fans have destroyed:

- Keurigs: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/keurig-sean-hannity_us_5a092dd2e4b0e37d2f386416
- NFL merchandise: https://www.avclub.com/here-are-the-inevitable-videos-of-angry-men-burning-the-1818727065
- Nike merchandise: https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/404907-kaepernick-ad-campaign-prompts-customers-to-destroy-nike-products
- Taylor Swift merchandise: http://fortune.com/2018/10/09/taylor-swift-burn-merchandise-instagram-protests/

And now we can add Gillette razors to the list: https://www.businessinsider.com/gillette-razor-protest-after-controversial-ad-2019-1

There's also a gigantic list of things they have boycotted since the election: https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-boycott-retailers-sell-trump-products-2017-1

Psychopaths!

[ehrnst]

56. Opposition to an ad that points out toxic masculinity is

feeling threatened by the idea that it's being pointed out.

Men who are confident in their masculinity, and acknowledge that toxic masculinity is a problem and don't take it as a personal affront/

Just like white people who acknowledge police brutality, don't take "BLM" as a personal affront. Racist white people don't acknowlege that there is racism, so any mention of it feels like an "attack" on white people as a class.

[uriel1972]

62. They don't acknowledge...

but they know, deep in their withered, ashen hearts they know.
That's why they get so touchy when it's shown up for what it is.

[uriel1972]

66. I don't know Shannon Campbell from a bar of soap...

but I think we might get along...
The second tweet is priceless