Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

kpete

(71,997 posts)
Thu Jan 17, 2019, 08:39 AM Jan 2019

The Atlantic: IMPEACH DONALD TRUMP

Starting the process will rein in a president who is undermining American ideals—and bring the debate about his fitness for office into Congress, where it belongs.




On january 20, 2017, Donald Trump stood on the steps of the Capitol, raised his right hand, and solemnly swore to faithfully execute the office of president of the United States and, to the best of his ability, to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States. He has not kept that promise.

Instead, he has mounted a concerted challenge to the separation of powers, to the rule of law, and to the civil liberties enshrined in our founding documents. He has purposefully inflamed America’s divisions. He has set himself against the American idea, the principle that all of us—of every race, gender, and creed—are created equal.

...................

The oath of office is a president’s promise to subordinate his private desires to the public interest, to serve the nation as a whole rather than any faction within it. Trump displays no evidence that he understands these obligations. To the contrary, he has routinely privileged his self-interest above the responsibilities of the presidency. He has failed to disclose or divest himself from his extensive financial interests, instead using the platform of the presidency to promote them. This has encouraged a wide array of actors, domestic and foreign, to seek to influence his decisions by funneling cash to properties such as Mar-a-Lago (the “Winter White House,” as Trump has branded it) and his hotel on Pennsylvania Avenue. Courts are now considering whether some of those payments violate the Constitution.

..........

Trump’s bipartisan critics are not merely arguing that he has dishonored the presidency. The most serious charge is that he is attacking the bedrock of American democracy.


........... By delaying the start of the process, in the hope that even clearer evidence will be produced by Mueller or some other source, lawmakers are delaying its eventual conclusion. Better to forge ahead, weighing what is already known and incorporating additional material as it becomes available.

...........

........The process of impeachment itself is likely to shift public opinion, both by highlighting what’s already known and by bringing new evidence to light. If Trump’s support among Republican voters erodes, his support in the Senate may do the same. One lesson of Richard Nixon’s impeachment is that when legislators conclude a presidency is doomed, they can switch allegiances in the blink of an eye.

.........

With a newly seated Democratic majority, the House of Representatives can no longer dodge its constitutional duty. It must immediately open a formal impeachment inquiry into President Trump, and bring the debate out of the court of public opinion and into Congress, where it belongs.



MORE:
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/03/impeachment-trump/580468/
78 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
The Atlantic: IMPEACH DONALD TRUMP (Original Post) kpete Jan 2019 OP
Get thee to the greatest page malaise Jan 2019 #1
republicans must choose: America or Comrade Dirty Donny* Achilleaze Jan 2019 #2
they chose yesterday, may choose differently after it starts Hermit-The-Prog Jan 2019 #49
This should be a headlines, not in the cartoons. SoFlaDem Jan 2019 #50
Yet another scathingly brilliant cartoon! calimary Jan 2019 #70
we need Moscow Mitch gone Hermit-The-Prog Jan 2019 #72
Uh yeeeeeaaaah, there IS that. Indeed. calimary Jan 2019 #75
Just Do It! ITMF! SammyWinstonJack Jan 2019 #3
I've dropped out of the 'If You Impeach douche You Get Pence Club.' rpannier Jan 2019 #4
Agreed UpInArms Jan 2019 #6
AT BEST. Volaris Jan 2019 #64
Gerald Ford committed political suicide when he pardoned Nixon. calimary Jan 2019 #76
Ditto crazytown Jan 2019 #9
Pence won't be able to get anything past Pelosi's House. And even when tRump goes Bernardo de La Paz Jan 2019 #14
It's fine to impeach, but where are we getting the 20 Republican senators to convict? bearsfootball516 Jan 2019 #15
Yeah, not there yet. Get ONLY ONE GO at Impeachment, so it has to wait till sure it will work. . .nt Bernardo de La Paz Jan 2019 #16
I dont recall a limit to the number of impeachments but of cstanleytech Jan 2019 #19
There is no legal limit on impeachments, but as a practical matter there is. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Jan 2019 #21
If Mueller has the evidence that Eyeball_Kid Jan 2019 #51
Yep mountain grammy Jan 2019 #23
Pence is Not Likeable Enough to Win an Election McKim Jan 2019 #24
+1000 smirkymonkey Jan 2019 #60
From what I've seen of Pence... zanana1 Jan 2019 #28
And people don't like him. The kleig lights would go off like *that*. nolabear Jan 2019 #32
Frankly, Pence* is probably in as much Mueller trouble as tRump*... Raster Jan 2019 #33
Pence has zero political capital. MontanaMama Jan 2019 #34
The Cult of Trump... SergeStorms Jan 2019 #68
Pence is FILTHY. He'll go down too. OMGWTF Jan 2019 #55
Even if the office fell to Pence, Haggis for Breakfast Jan 2019 #67
Exactly. Pence's policies are as bad as Trump's. musicblind Jan 2019 #77
IMPEACH TRUMP! Equinox Moon Jan 2019 #5
Wait for Mueller Martin Eden Jan 2019 #7
We've been wating for over a year now. Butterflylady Jan 2019 #12
Will IMPEACHMENT succeed or fail? Martin Eden Jan 2019 #30
If something else happens bdamomma Jan 2019 #31
Must have hard evidence of CRIMES. Not enough to take down Trump alone. Get all the comrades too. Auggie Jan 2019 #42
Na, waiting for Mueller is not the ticket. Equinox Moon Jan 2019 #25
Release it now, Bob Capperdan Jan 2019 #40
Agree! And the process will force low-info voters Laura PourMeADrink Jan 2019 #8
Not only is he enriching himself off the his office, he is breaking millions of Americans farmers, notdarkyet Jan 2019 #10
BTW: the cover has 'president' in lower case. crazytown Jan 2019 #11
That's Associated Press Style jayschool2013 Jan 2019 #27
Got it crazytown Jan 2019 #36
Let it begin, before it's too late Hermit-The-Prog Jan 2019 #13
"Let it begin, before it's too late" kpete Jan 2019 #47
the genius of cartoonists has come out Hermit-The-Prog Jan 2019 #48
Amen Scruffy1 Jan 2019 #17
I am wondering if Pelosi is simply waiting until the election season kicks into full gear in 2019 to cstanleytech Jan 2019 #18
I think she wants a conviction. athena Jan 2019 #53
The article also has links to Danascot Jan 2019 #20
+1 Little Star Jan 2019 #37
Trump is our version of Mussolini/Hitler. honest.abe Jan 2019 #22
k&r n/t lordsummerisle Jan 2019 #26
We are talking about our bdamomma Jan 2019 #29
Even if it fails the need does not go away. gordianot Jan 2019 #35
co-signed Blue_Tires Jan 2019 #38
Even the article is historic. If he had any shame he should be withering. nolabear Jan 2019 #39
Impeach the Motherfucker. dalton99a Jan 2019 #41
Impeach NOW chia Jan 2019 #43
Impeach AND indict... B Stieg Jan 2019 #44
Multiple indictments are sealed and waiting Eyeball_Kid Jan 2019 #52
Wow! I'm with them. We cannot wait any longer. llmart Jan 2019 #45
Well written essay of grave importance. Saved. northoftheborder Jan 2019 #46
Use this link red dog 1 Jan 2019 #54
K&R Scurrilous Jan 2019 #56
K&R LW1977 Jan 2019 #57
I wish I could rec this a thousand times nt raccoon Jan 2019 #58
We still need at least 17 GOP senators to flip Wednesdays Jan 2019 #59
It's a foregone conclusion at this time. Republicans are in for a pound, in for a dollar on TRE45ON ffr Jan 2019 #61
Impeach now! It shouldn't be too hard to build the case that impeachment is warranted and that it Poiuyt Jan 2019 #62
KICK KICK KICK! orangecrush Jan 2019 #63
Until the Republican-controlled Senate feels the pain, impeachment is a fool's errand. Nitram Jan 2019 #65
Nixon wasn't impeached FakeNoose Jan 2019 #66
You're right, Nixon was not impeached. He resigned to avoid certain impeachment. Nitram Jan 2019 #74
Very well written, compelling argument based on history. MarvinGardens Jan 2019 #69
Question: what took them so long?!? Joe941 Jan 2019 #71
Where do I sign? kentuck Jan 2019 #73
kick, because this is even more appropriate Hermit-The-Prog Jan 2019 #78

Achilleaze

(15,543 posts)
2. republicans must choose: America or Comrade Dirty Donny*
Thu Jan 17, 2019, 09:03 AM
Jan 2019
* aka KGOP republican Casino Hustler & Draft-Dodger-in-Chief

Hermit-The-Prog

(33,356 posts)
72. we need Moscow Mitch gone
Fri Jan 18, 2019, 09:30 AM
Jan 2019

The gutless GOP (a.k.a., Russiapublicans) could bypass Mitch today, but they are terrified of what Putin got on them from that hack of the RNC.

calimary

(81,323 posts)
75. Uh yeeeeeaaaah, there IS that. Indeed.
Fri Jan 18, 2019, 04:39 PM
Jan 2019

Remember there indeed were reports that the Russians also hacked the RNC, but didn’t do anything with whatever it was that they got.

At least not yet.

MAN, can you say “kompromat”? Holy cannoli...

rpannier

(24,330 posts)
4. I've dropped out of the 'If You Impeach douche You Get Pence Club.'
Thu Jan 17, 2019, 09:10 AM
Jan 2019

Pence's policies are not better than douche's
But, he's less likely to be finding new and different ways to screw people while personally profiting from his ineptitude
This disaster shutdown would not have happened under Pence. He'd have signed that bill to keep the government open
And he doesn't engender the weird cultist support that douche gets

Get rid of trump and worry about pence later

Volaris

(10,272 posts)
64. AT BEST.
Thu Jan 17, 2019, 10:54 PM
Jan 2019

the more likely scenario (I suspect) is that pence is also in this up to his eyeballs, and the will both get impeached at the same time.

calimary

(81,323 posts)
76. Gerald Ford committed political suicide when he pardoned Nixon.
Fri Jan 18, 2019, 04:44 PM
Jan 2019

Just keep that in mind. Pence probably isn’t bothering his little white head about that, though. I suspect he thinks it’s different where he’s concerned, and besides, God will provide.

crazytown

(7,277 posts)
9. Ditto
Thu Jan 17, 2019, 09:25 AM
Jan 2019

We can talk about the politics, the calculations, the machinery, the Senate, but ultimately we will face the judgment of history: ‘Why didn’t you do something?’

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,011 posts)
14. Pence won't be able to get anything past Pelosi's House. And even when tRump goes
Thu Jan 17, 2019, 09:40 AM
Jan 2019

Even when tRump goes, it will still be the Trump-Republicon Party.

They made him, chose him, colluded w Russia for him, enable him and protect him.

Eyeball_Kid

(7,432 posts)
51. If Mueller has the evidence that
Thu Jan 17, 2019, 02:18 PM
Jan 2019

Trumpy is a Russian Agent, GOPers will have to sink or swim. GOPers cannot openly support a Russian Coup.

McKim

(2,412 posts)
24. Pence is Not Likeable Enough to Win an Election
Thu Jan 17, 2019, 10:06 AM
Jan 2019

Pence is a wooden personality who could not win an election. Were he to serve as president he does not have the winning ways and the public could endlessly be reminded that Manafort chose him. This argument about Pence holding off impeachment does not hold water.

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
60. +1000
Thu Jan 17, 2019, 08:12 PM
Jan 2019

Totally agree with this. Pence is the least of our worries. He's was about to lose in effing INDIANA before he was tapped for the VP slot. There is no way he is going to be any kind of threat if he replaces Trump. Nobody in Congress or out of it will get behind him.

zanana1

(6,122 posts)
28. From what I've seen of Pence...
Thu Jan 17, 2019, 10:33 AM
Jan 2019

We have to worry about him now! He has extremist views on women's choice, the environment, our relations with other countries, working with congress, etc.

nolabear

(41,987 posts)
32. And people don't like him. The kleig lights would go off like *that*.
Thu Jan 17, 2019, 10:44 AM
Jan 2019

I am pretty certain half of Spanky’s success with the base is pure meanness. They live for the putdowns and vileness. Pence just ain’t any fun!

Raster

(20,998 posts)
33. Frankly, Pence* is probably in as much Mueller trouble as tRump*...
Thu Jan 17, 2019, 10:44 AM
Jan 2019

...maybe even more. Remember, Paul Manafart* brought Pious Pence* to the tRump* party.

SergeStorms

(19,204 posts)
68. The Cult of Trump...
Fri Jan 18, 2019, 04:19 AM
Jan 2019

would not be transferable to Mike Pence. He's as dull as dishwater, doesn't berate people or get into twitter wars at the drop of a hat, and just can't spin superlatives like Trump. I suppose the evangelicals would flock to him, but he's going nowhere with only the god squad on his side. Could you imagine Karen Pence as "first" lady? What a dichotomy; Melanie Trump and Karen Pence. Talk about polar opposites!

Haggis for Breakfast

(6,831 posts)
67. Even if the office fell to Pence,
Fri Jan 18, 2019, 12:32 AM
Jan 2019

He'd be a lame duck. He'd get nothing done in the two or less years he'd have. And there's NO way he'd get elected on his own. Even the GOP wouldn't support him.

musicblind

(4,484 posts)
77. Exactly. Pence's policies are as bad as Trump's.
Fri Jan 18, 2019, 04:58 PM
Jan 2019

Worse, in some cases.

But he is not a nuclear holocaust threat. I know that's a low bar, but that's the bar we're at.

Equinox Moon

(6,344 posts)
5. IMPEACH TRUMP!
Thu Jan 17, 2019, 09:16 AM
Jan 2019

I don't think waiting for the Mueller report is the timeline. AG William Barr will never release the Mueller report and only give us cliff notes.

No reason to wait. Impeach Trump Now!

Butterflylady

(3,544 posts)
12. We've been wating for over a year now.
Thu Jan 17, 2019, 09:34 AM
Jan 2019

Mueller says he needs 6 months more. What Mueller if needs 6 more months, by that time this country will be in shreds or good chance blown up. This is a very, very unstably, mentally incompetent man and he must go.

Martin Eden

(12,871 posts)
30. Will IMPEACHMENT succeed or fail?
Thu Jan 17, 2019, 10:38 AM
Jan 2019

I just think there is a much better chance of succeeding in removing this menace from office with ammunition from the Mueller report.

Remember, we need 22 Senate Republicans to agree.

If Hair Twitler survives the attempt there will not be a second chance for removal before the end of his term.

bdamomma

(63,883 posts)
31. If something else happens
Thu Jan 17, 2019, 10:40 AM
Jan 2019

that puts us in jeopardy and affects us all personally (which in some way everything that is happening now) we will rise.

Equinox Moon

(6,344 posts)
25. Na, waiting for Mueller is not the ticket.
Thu Jan 17, 2019, 10:16 AM
Jan 2019

Trump is making sure he has an AG that will protect him.

The new AG nominee Barr, is not going to release very much of the Mueller report and he will rewrite a summary to be released to the public that protects Trump.

https://democraticunderground.com/1017528355

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
8. Agree! And the process will force low-info voters
Thu Jan 17, 2019, 09:19 AM
Jan 2019

To hear truths that are NEVER mentioned on Faux News.

notdarkyet

(2,226 posts)
10. Not only is he enriching himself off the his office, he is breaking millions of Americans farmers,
Thu Jan 17, 2019, 09:28 AM
Jan 2019

Business people, hundreds of thousands of federal workers. How long will we let one corrupt man destroy our country and our people.? Impeach now.

jayschool2013

(2,312 posts)
27. That's Associated Press Style
Thu Jan 17, 2019, 10:29 AM
Jan 2019

The AP Stylebook holds that you should capitalize president only as a formal title that is before one or more names. For example, President Barack Obama. Presidents George W. Bush and Bill Clinton. Barack Obama was president for eight years.

Hermit-The-Prog

(33,356 posts)
13. Let it begin, before it's too late
Thu Jan 17, 2019, 09:36 AM
Jan 2019

It's time for the House to begin the debates and investigations in national view. Impeachment is necessary. The beginning cannot be postponed for the completion of Mueller's investigation, nor can it be postponed for the Senate votes to be pre-counted in favor of conviction. The damage is ongoing and the offenses are grave.

The time that it will take to complete simply increases the urgency to begin the process now.

Hermit-The-Prog

(33,356 posts)
48. the genius of cartoonists has come out
Thu Jan 17, 2019, 12:44 PM
Jan 2019

That one seems very appropriate to me.

Let me just add something I missed when it was new:



cstanleytech

(26,299 posts)
18. I am wondering if Pelosi is simply waiting until the election season kicks into full gear in 2019 to
Thu Jan 17, 2019, 09:47 AM
Jan 2019

open up with impeachment then.
After all opening it up now gives the Repugnants alot of time to use their PR arm over at Fox to try spin it where as if it is delayed until 2019 really shortens the time that they can try and dampen it.

athena

(4,187 posts)
53. I think she wants a conviction.
Thu Jan 17, 2019, 02:25 PM
Jan 2019

So she’s waiting for the Mueller report. Without a conviction in the Senate, a vote to impeach in the House looks weak.

Danascot

(4,690 posts)
20. The article also has links to
Thu Jan 17, 2019, 09:56 AM
Jan 2019

50 Moments That Define an Improbable Presidency

5. James Comey is fired

4. Putin and Trump talk without chaperones

3. The president still hasn’t released his tax returns

2. “Very fine people on both sides”

1. Children are taken from their parents and incarcerated

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/03/impeachment-trump/580468/

bdamomma

(63,883 posts)
29. We are talking about our
Thu Jan 17, 2019, 10:36 AM
Jan 2019

survival here and our people, our environment and the world. We need to stop this regime. Facts are facts and truth is truth.

nolabear

(41,987 posts)
39. Even the article is historic. If he had any shame he should be withering.
Thu Jan 17, 2019, 11:10 AM
Jan 2019

In his case it’ll just enrage him more but this isn’t the “Failing NY Times,” it’s the Atlantic.

llmart

(15,540 posts)
45. Wow! I'm with them. We cannot wait any longer.
Thu Jan 17, 2019, 11:54 AM
Jan 2019

If the tables were turned, we all know that the GOP would be impeaching Hillary immediately.

I may have to buy this issue of The Atlantic because it could just be an historical memory of the beginning of the end of this national nightmare.

Wednesdays

(17,381 posts)
59. We still need at least 17 GOP senators to flip
Thu Jan 17, 2019, 07:54 PM
Jan 2019

in order to convict.
In these days of Faux Noise and Limbaugh, that's still a really tall mountain to climb.

ffr

(22,670 posts)
61. It's a foregone conclusion at this time. Republicans are in for a pound, in for a dollar on TRE45ON
Thu Jan 17, 2019, 08:24 PM
Jan 2019

And the GOP is nothing less than a cult.

Poiuyt

(18,126 posts)
62. Impeach now! It shouldn't be too hard to build the case that impeachment is warranted and that it
Thu Jan 17, 2019, 08:43 PM
Jan 2019

should begin now. I have no doubt that when the facts are laid out in a reasonable and logical matter, enough Americans will be convinced that Trump is a danger to American ideals and should be impeached. Republicans will feel the heat from their constituents and act accordingly.

Mr. Applebaum's article is long, but it's important.

Nitram

(22,822 posts)
65. Until the Republican-controlled Senate feels the pain, impeachment is a fool's errand.
Thu Jan 17, 2019, 11:35 PM
Jan 2019

Impeaching Trump and them having the Senate find him innocent is worse than not impeaching in the first place. Ever since Nixon was impeached and forced to resign the GOP has been looking for revenge. They impeached Clinton, but the Sense didn't find him guilty. The GOP Senate would never impeach unless the results of the Mueller investigation prove Trump conspired with the Russians to win the election.

FakeNoose

(32,645 posts)
66. Nixon wasn't impeached
Thu Jan 17, 2019, 11:59 PM
Jan 2019

He actually resigned in order to avoid impeachment. If he had stayed any longer, he would have been impeached and convicted and removed from office. Nixon was told that by his own GOP party leaders, and that's when he knew he had to go quickly.

Impeachment means the question is called, it's equivalent to indictment or charges brought against the President. It is enacted by the House of Representatives. Then there's a trial conducted in the Senate, and all the Senators are members of the jury. They have to vote whether to convict or not. That's what you remember from Bill Clinton's impeachment trial. He was impeached but not convicted, and he remained in office for the rest of his term.

Robert Mueller is the special investigator who has broad powers, but he cannot make the decision to impeach Trump. He will write the report of his findings and the House will decide whether Trump should be impeached. The Senate decides whether he should be convicted.

MarvinGardens

(779 posts)
69. Very well written, compelling argument based on history.
Fri Jan 18, 2019, 07:23 AM
Jan 2019

I tend to be in the "wait for Mueller" camp, but this article has me thinking.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»The Atlantic: IMPEACH DON...