General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe Atlantic: IMPEACH DONALD TRUMP
Starting the process will rein in a president who is undermining American idealsand bring the debate about his fitness for office into Congress, where it belongs.On january 20, 2017, Donald Trump stood on the steps of the Capitol, raised his right hand, and solemnly swore to faithfully execute the office of president of the United States and, to the best of his ability, to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States. He has not kept that promise.
Instead, he has mounted a concerted challenge to the separation of powers, to the rule of law, and to the civil liberties enshrined in our founding documents. He has purposefully inflamed Americas divisions. He has set himself against the American idea, the principle that all of usof every race, gender, and creedare created equal.
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The oath of office is a presidents promise to subordinate his private desires to the public interest, to serve the nation as a whole rather than any faction within it. Trump displays no evidence that he understands these obligations. To the contrary, he has routinely privileged his self-interest above the responsibilities of the presidency. He has failed to disclose or divest himself from his extensive financial interests, instead using the platform of the presidency to promote them. This has encouraged a wide array of actors, domestic and foreign, to seek to influence his decisions by funneling cash to properties such as Mar-a-Lago (the Winter White House, as Trump has branded it) and his hotel on Pennsylvania Avenue. Courts are now considering whether some of those payments violate the Constitution.
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Trumps bipartisan critics are not merely arguing that he has dishonored the presidency. The most serious charge is that he is attacking the bedrock of American democracy.
........... By delaying the start of the process, in the hope that even clearer evidence will be produced by Mueller or some other source, lawmakers are delaying its eventual conclusion. Better to forge ahead, weighing what is already known and incorporating additional material as it becomes available.
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........The process of impeachment itself is likely to shift public opinion, both by highlighting whats already known and by bringing new evidence to light. If Trumps support among Republican voters erodes, his support in the Senate may do the same. One lesson of Richard Nixons impeachment is that when legislators conclude a presidency is doomed, they can switch allegiances in the blink of an eye.
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With a newly seated Democratic majority, the House of Representatives can no longer dodge its constitutional duty. It must immediately open a formal impeachment inquiry into President Trump, and bring the debate out of the court of public opinion and into Congress, where it belongs.
MORE:
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/03/impeachment-trump/580468/
malaise
(269,063 posts)ITTMF!
Achilleaze
(15,543 posts)Hermit-The-Prog
(33,356 posts)Seen in today's 'toons:
SoFlaDem
(98 posts)calimary
(81,323 posts)Hi Mitch! Hows life in the oligarchs back pocket? Hows the view?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/mavenroundtable.io/theintellectualist/api/amp/theintellectualist/news/mcconnell-received-3-5m-in-campaign-donations-from-russian-oligarch-linked-firm-93UjehU6aUCtejJRBFezCw/
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,356 posts)The gutless GOP (a.k.a., Russiapublicans) could bypass Mitch today, but they are terrified of what Putin got on them from that hack of the RNC.
calimary
(81,323 posts)Remember there indeed were reports that the Russians also hacked the RNC, but didnt do anything with whatever it was that they got.
At least not yet.
MAN, can you say kompromat? Holy cannoli...
SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)rpannier
(24,330 posts)Pence's policies are not better than douche's
But, he's less likely to be finding new and different ways to screw people while personally profiting from his ineptitude
This disaster shutdown would not have happened under Pence. He'd have signed that bill to keep the government open
And he doesn't engender the weird cultist support that douche gets
Get rid of trump and worry about pence later
And Pence will be neutered by association
Volaris
(10,272 posts)the more likely scenario (I suspect) is that pence is also in this up to his eyeballs, and the will both get impeached at the same time.
calimary
(81,323 posts)Just keep that in mind. Pence probably isnt bothering his little white head about that, though. I suspect he thinks its different where hes concerned, and besides, God will provide.
We can talk about the politics, the calculations, the machinery, the Senate, but ultimately we will face the judgment of history: Why didnt you do something?
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,011 posts)Even when tRump goes, it will still be the Trump-Republicon Party.
They made him, chose him, colluded w Russia for him, enable him and protect him.
bearsfootball516
(6,377 posts)Bernardo de La Paz
(49,011 posts)cstanleytech
(26,299 posts)course it would be futile due to the Senate.
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,011 posts)Eyeball_Kid
(7,432 posts)Trumpy is a Russian Agent, GOPers will have to sink or swim. GOPers cannot openly support a Russian Coup.
mountain grammy
(26,626 posts)McKim
(2,412 posts)Pence is a wooden personality who could not win an election. Were he to serve as president he does not have the winning ways and the public could endlessly be reminded that Manafort chose him. This argument about Pence holding off impeachment does not hold water.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)Totally agree with this. Pence is the least of our worries. He's was about to lose in effing INDIANA before he was tapped for the VP slot. There is no way he is going to be any kind of threat if he replaces Trump. Nobody in Congress or out of it will get behind him.
zanana1
(6,122 posts)We have to worry about him now! He has extremist views on women's choice, the environment, our relations with other countries, working with congress, etc.
nolabear
(41,987 posts)I am pretty certain half of Spankys success with the base is pure meanness. They live for the putdowns and vileness. Pence just aint any fun!
Raster
(20,998 posts)...maybe even more. Remember, Paul Manafart* brought Pious Pence* to the tRump* party.
MontanaMama
(23,322 posts)I also believe he has zero fan base outside his home state.
SergeStorms
(19,204 posts)would not be transferable to Mike Pence. He's as dull as dishwater, doesn't berate people or get into twitter wars at the drop of a hat, and just can't spin superlatives like Trump. I suppose the evangelicals would flock to him, but he's going nowhere with only the god squad on his side. Could you imagine Karen Pence as "first" lady? What a dichotomy; Melanie Trump and Karen Pence. Talk about polar opposites!
OMGWTF
(3,959 posts)President Pelosi!
Haggis for Breakfast
(6,831 posts)He'd be a lame duck. He'd get nothing done in the two or less years he'd have. And there's NO way he'd get elected on his own. Even the GOP wouldn't support him.
musicblind
(4,484 posts)Worse, in some cases.
But he is not a nuclear holocaust threat. I know that's a low bar, but that's the bar we're at.
Equinox Moon
(6,344 posts)I don't think waiting for the Mueller report is the timeline. AG William Barr will never release the Mueller report and only give us cliff notes.
No reason to wait. Impeach Trump Now!
Martin Eden
(12,871 posts)Let's load both barrels before we hunt down this Russian bear.
Butterflylady
(3,544 posts)Mueller says he needs 6 months more. What Mueller if needs 6 more months, by that time this country will be in shreds or good chance blown up. This is a very, very unstably, mentally incompetent man and he must go.
Martin Eden
(12,871 posts)I just think there is a much better chance of succeeding in removing this menace from office with ammunition from the Mueller report.
Remember, we need 22 Senate Republicans to agree.
If Hair Twitler survives the attempt there will not be a second chance for removal before the end of his term.
bdamomma
(63,883 posts)that puts us in jeopardy and affects us all personally (which in some way everything that is happening now) we will rise.
Auggie
(31,174 posts)Equinox Moon
(6,344 posts)Trump is making sure he has an AG that will protect him.
The new AG nominee Barr, is not going to release very much of the Mueller report and he will rewrite a summary to be released to the public that protects Trump.
https://democraticunderground.com/1017528355
Capperdan
(492 posts)Save the fucking country
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)To hear truths that are NEVER mentioned on Faux News.
notdarkyet
(2,226 posts)Business people, hundreds of thousands of federal workers. How long will we let one corrupt man destroy our country and our people.? Impeach now.
crazytown
(7,277 posts)Had to correct the auto spell as well.
jayschool2013
(2,312 posts)The AP Stylebook holds that you should capitalize president only as a formal title that is before one or more names. For example, President Barack Obama. Presidents George W. Bush and Bill Clinton. Barack Obama was president for eight years.
crazytown
(7,277 posts)Thanks.
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,356 posts)It's time for the House to begin the debates and investigations in national view. Impeachment is necessary. The beginning cannot be postponed for the completion of Mueller's investigation, nor can it be postponed for the Senate votes to be pre-counted in favor of conviction. The damage is ongoing and the offenses are grave.
The time that it will take to complete simply increases the urgency to begin the process now.
kpete
(71,997 posts)Hermit-The-Prog
(33,356 posts)That one seems very appropriate to me.
Let me just add something I missed when it was new:
Link to tweet
Waiting on Muellers uncertain timeline is like fiddling while Rome is burning.
cstanleytech
(26,299 posts)open up with impeachment then.
After all opening it up now gives the Repugnants alot of time to use their PR arm over at Fox to try spin it where as if it is delayed until 2019 really shortens the time that they can try and dampen it.
athena
(4,187 posts)So shes waiting for the Mueller report. Without a conviction in the Senate, a vote to impeach in the House looks weak.
Danascot
(4,690 posts)50 Moments That Define an Improbable Presidency
5. James Comey is fired
4. Putin and Trump talk without chaperones
3. The president still hasnt released his tax returns
2. Very fine people on both sides
1. Children are taken from their parents and incarcerated
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/03/impeachment-trump/580468/
honest.abe
(8,678 posts)There is no doubt he deserves to be impeached.
lordsummerisle
(4,651 posts)bdamomma
(63,883 posts)survival here and our people, our environment and the world. We need to stop this regime. Facts are facts and truth is truth.
gordianot
(15,242 posts)Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)nolabear
(41,987 posts)In his case itll just enrage him more but this isnt the Failing NY Times, its the Atlantic.
dalton99a
(81,526 posts)chia
(2,244 posts)B Stieg
(2,410 posts)It's the only way to be sure...
Eyeball_Kid
(7,432 posts)for Muellers go-ahead.
llmart
(15,540 posts)If the tables were turned, we all know that the GOP would be impeaching Hillary immediately.
I may have to buy this issue of The Atlantic because it could just be an historical memory of the beginning of the end of this national nightmare.
northoftheborder
(7,572 posts)red dog 1
(27,820 posts)Scurrilous
(38,687 posts)& bump
raccoon
(31,111 posts)Wednesdays
(17,381 posts)in order to convict.
In these days of Faux Noise and Limbaugh, that's still a really tall mountain to climb.
ffr
(22,670 posts)And the GOP is nothing less than a cult.
Poiuyt
(18,126 posts)should begin now. I have no doubt that when the facts are laid out in a reasonable and logical matter, enough Americans will be convinced that Trump is a danger to American ideals and should be impeached. Republicans will feel the heat from their constituents and act accordingly.
Mr. Applebaum's article is long, but it's important.
orangecrush
(19,573 posts)Nitram
(22,822 posts)Impeaching Trump and them having the Senate find him innocent is worse than not impeaching in the first place. Ever since Nixon was impeached and forced to resign the GOP has been looking for revenge. They impeached Clinton, but the Sense didn't find him guilty. The GOP Senate would never impeach unless the results of the Mueller investigation prove Trump conspired with the Russians to win the election.
FakeNoose
(32,645 posts)He actually resigned in order to avoid impeachment. If he had stayed any longer, he would have been impeached and convicted and removed from office. Nixon was told that by his own GOP party leaders, and that's when he knew he had to go quickly.
Impeachment means the question is called, it's equivalent to indictment or charges brought against the President. It is enacted by the House of Representatives. Then there's a trial conducted in the Senate, and all the Senators are members of the jury. They have to vote whether to convict or not. That's what you remember from Bill Clinton's impeachment trial. He was impeached but not convicted, and he remained in office for the rest of his term.
Robert Mueller is the special investigator who has broad powers, but he cannot make the decision to impeach Trump. He will write the report of his findings and the House will decide whether Trump should be impeached. The Senate decides whether he should be convicted.
Nitram
(22,822 posts)MarvinGardens
(779 posts)I tend to be in the "wait for Mueller" camp, but this article has me thinking.
Joe941
(2,848 posts)kentuck
(111,104 posts)Make the Congress earn their money.