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CanonRay

(14,105 posts)
Mon Aug 20, 2012, 04:52 PM Aug 2012

A Visit From My Libertarian Brother-in-Law

I know everybody has one of these in their family, but I have to rant.

So my wife’s sister and her husband, my dear brother-in-law, came to visit us this week. Now there’s a mixed blessing.

Rob is a one of those guys who always voted Republican, and now considers himself to be a libertarian. He's been slowly going off into the deep end of the pool over the last few years. Here’s a guy who probably hasn’t paid Federal income tax (he lives in a no income tax state, of course) in at least thirty years, and yet bitches incessantly about taxation. He pays property tax, and when he has to, sales tax. Period. If he could figure out how to get out of those, he would. Taxes are for suckers, according to Rob.

I generally tune him out, or try to. I don’t watch MSNBC, let alone Current TV, when he’s around. I basically de-news the house, so I won’t have to listen to his comments/rants.

This time I actually tried to figure out what he was thinking and tried to listen to what he was trying to say. It boils down to this:

He wants no government. Not limited government, NO government. He claims we don’t need it. We could police ourselves, put out our own fires, teach our own kids, and generally get by just fine, thank you, without any form of government at all. According to Rob, all governments, everywhere, throughout history were corrupt, thieving and unnecessary.

He says he just wants to be left alone. He completely and utterly rejects the Social Contract. He just simply doesn't give a crap about anyone or anything but himself. He is the epitomy of "I've got mine".

This is a guy who is so angry at everyone and everything, it comes down to that he entirely rejects society, and thinks that this “idea” would work out just fine.

Oh, his kids went to public school, and were eligible for two years free tuition at college. He drives on public roads. The cops and firemen protect his business and equipment and his home, but he doesn’t want to pay for any of this. When wildfires threatened his house earlier this year, and the BLM and Forest Service put the fires out, he didn’t pay a dime. Not one dime. His drinking water is clean, and he breaths clean air, because the guy who owns the land behind his house cannot open a smelter, because the EPA won’t let him Rob didn’t pay for that, either. In fact, he wants the EPA (and every other state and Federal agency) to go away.

Somehow, and he never says just how, he could take care of everything quite well on his own, if "they" would just leave him alone.

So when you get to the bottom of Rob, the real nitty-gritty core, what you’ve got is an angry, greedy, white guy who has ideas so cynical, irrational, impractical and juvenile as to defy imagination.

Now that I fully understand what he’s getting at, I will be able to tune him out just fine.

39 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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A Visit From My Libertarian Brother-in-Law (Original Post) CanonRay Aug 2012 OP
I think you should mess with him... CaliforniaPeggy Aug 2012 #1
Actually, I did. CanonRay Aug 2012 #4
"Never been tried"? Ha! Tell him he sounds lke a college communist! JHB Aug 2012 #19
Oh, I told his response would have been ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2012 #26
I know people just like him Blecht Aug 2012 #2
what you’ve got is an angry, greedy, white guy who has ideas so cynical, irrational, impractical and FLyellowdog Aug 2012 #3
So he's really an anarchist then? The Velveteen Ocelot Aug 2012 #5
You beat me to the punch. Blanks Aug 2012 #12
This is the basic flaw of communism Turbineguy Aug 2012 #6
Some people never get over parent/child conflicts; he is one of them Tom Ripley Aug 2012 #7
Dude, you are so right! BlueNinja Aug 2012 #10
Antarctica has no government...no taxes. Tikki Aug 2012 #8
Just leave him alone lsewpershad Aug 2012 #11
It's all white, too. lob1 Aug 2012 #34
There are no laws against being a hermit. GeorgeGist Aug 2012 #9
But psychopaths can never maintain a hermit-like existence because they NEED people... Tom Ripley Aug 2012 #38
No government? Great, that makes a socialist revolution so much easier. white_wolf Aug 2012 #13
How does he not pay Federal Income Tax? maxsolomon Aug 2012 #14
I think it means no state income tax. RebelOne Aug 2012 #17
Yup is got to be state income tax. florida doesnt have any either darkangel218 Aug 2012 #32
He runs his own "oil" business CanonRay Aug 2012 #35
Hahahahahaha!! darkangel218 Aug 2012 #37
Take him camping. Blanks Aug 2012 #15
Help him move to a remote part of the country. JoePhilly Aug 2012 #16
Wait!! Where is a no income tax state?? And his kids are eligible for 2 years free Autumn Aug 2012 #18
As ohters have said, your brother in law is an anarchist nadinbrzezinski Aug 2012 #20
You should buy him a ticket to Somalia. Vinca Aug 2012 #21
I have met several men and women like Smilo Aug 2012 #22
That's bad anarchism! Taverner Aug 2012 #23
I can take care of myself and I am always right locks Aug 2012 #24
The people I know who talk like that about "corrupt, thieving" government are also very patrice Aug 2012 #25
They don't think it through and idolize a romanticized past time treestar Aug 2012 #27
Did he travel all the way on private roads? rug Aug 2012 #28
I wouldn't let a crazy fucker like that in my house. mysuzuki2 Aug 2012 #29
If he wants nothing to do with the government, hope he doesn't vote! n2doc Aug 2012 #30
This message was self-deleted by its author darkangel218 Aug 2012 #31
She's a former Independent, turned Progressive CanonRay Aug 2012 #33
Yup, love can be blind. darkangel218 Aug 2012 #36
He's a psychopath who manipulates her Tom Ripley Aug 2012 #39

CaliforniaPeggy

(149,642 posts)
1. I think you should mess with him...
Mon Aug 20, 2012, 04:55 PM
Aug 2012

Have you ever asked him why he isn't living in Somalia? No functioning government there...

CanonRay

(14,105 posts)
4. Actually, I did.
Mon Aug 20, 2012, 04:57 PM
Aug 2012

He said his "idea" had never been tried, and I told him it's being tried right now in Somalia, and he should check it out. He had no answer. HIs philosophy isn't really a philosophy, it's anger turned outward, IMHO. I think this might cover a lot of Libertarian thinking.

JHB

(37,161 posts)
19. "Never been tried"? Ha! Tell him he sounds lke a college communist!
Mon Aug 20, 2012, 05:36 PM
Aug 2012

"True communism has never been tried" went the refrain. And in a strictly academic sense it's probably even true. But so what? In reality the gap between theory and implementation produced several mass-murdering police states.

His "idea" produces just what is seen in Somalia: a bunch of petty tyrants and their henchmen grabbing whatever they can force from people who would be happy to just be "left alone", using what they get to try to one-up each other, and anyone caught in between pays the price.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
26. Oh, I told his response would have been ...
Mon Aug 20, 2012, 06:17 PM
Aug 2012

"Too many Black people."

Because everyone knows that after centuries of pre-colonial co-existence without "governments" per se, the Black Africans, alone, spoiled the libertarian utopia.

FLyellowdog

(4,276 posts)
3. what you’ve got is an angry, greedy, white guy who has ideas so cynical, irrational, impractical and
Mon Aug 20, 2012, 04:57 PM
Aug 2012

Sounds like he's still a republican.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,749 posts)
5. So he's really an anarchist then?
Mon Aug 20, 2012, 04:58 PM
Aug 2012

How about this: tell him you've located the perfect Libertarian paradise, and that he should move there at once. This country has no functioning government, no busybody agencies like the EPA to enact annoying regulations; nobody collects taxes or enforces laws; everybody is left alone to do pretty much what they want. And everybody can have all the guns they want, too.

This would be Somalia.

You could even offer to buy him a one-way ticket to Mogadishu.

Turbineguy

(37,353 posts)
6. This is the basic flaw of communism
Mon Aug 20, 2012, 04:59 PM
Aug 2012

as well as his philosophy. It is based on the notion that you don't have to consider what motivates peoples' behavior. So in an ideal world, both systems would work. But in a real world, they don't.

 

Tom Ripley

(4,945 posts)
38. But psychopaths can never maintain a hermit-like existence because they NEED people...
Mon Aug 20, 2012, 10:52 PM
Aug 2012

to manipulate, blame, and harm.
Even Ted Kaczynski had to "reach out and touch" others

white_wolf

(6,238 posts)
13. No government? Great, that makes a socialist revolution so much easier.
Mon Aug 20, 2012, 05:24 PM
Aug 2012

Who is going to protect his precious property without the State?

RebelOne

(30,947 posts)
17. I think it means no state income tax.
Mon Aug 20, 2012, 05:33 PM
Aug 2012

Everyone has to pay federal income tax. Georgia, where I live has a state income tax, which I had to pay throughout the year. But I always got a refund at the end of the year.

CanonRay

(14,105 posts)
35. He runs his own "oil" business
Mon Aug 20, 2012, 06:55 PM
Aug 2012

and writes everything, and I mean everything, off. He's found less oil than leaked from my '65 Chevy.

Blanks

(4,835 posts)
15. Take him camping.
Mon Aug 20, 2012, 05:27 PM
Aug 2012

...and leave him in the woods. He might appreciate civilization a little more if he didn't have it for a couple of days.

Of course the pesky government search and rescue people would ruin everything. Damn government.

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)
16. Help him move to a remote part of the country.
Mon Aug 20, 2012, 05:27 PM
Aug 2012

Might cost you some money initially, but once he goes off the grid, it will be worth it.

Autumn

(45,109 posts)
18. Wait!! Where is a no income tax state?? And his kids are eligible for 2 years free
Mon Aug 20, 2012, 05:34 PM
Aug 2012

tuition at college?? What the fuck is the idiot pissed about?

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
20. As ohters have said, your brother in law is an anarchist
Mon Aug 20, 2012, 05:37 PM
Aug 2012

and a lot of RWers are Anarchists. He is not alone.

Smilo

(1,944 posts)
22. I have met several men and women like
Mon Aug 20, 2012, 05:48 PM
Aug 2012

him - it amounts to "oh woe is me because..." they have some slight they won't get over. They blame everyone and when the perceive that someone is getting more in handouts than they are well that is just the government running amok and giving away "their" money.

These are the type of people who would find a penny on street and complain it was not a dollar.

They will never be happy.

locks

(2,012 posts)
24. I can take care of myself and I am always right
Mon Aug 20, 2012, 06:00 PM
Aug 2012

I know someone like that. Except he is more scary because he believes he has to have guns with him at all times including in schools, hospitals, movie theaters, and friends' homes in order to protect himself from the government and his family from all the crazies who believe in the Social Contract.

patrice

(47,992 posts)
25. The people I know who talk like that about "corrupt, thieving" government are also very
Mon Aug 20, 2012, 06:11 PM
Aug 2012

likely to have never made one phone-call to an elected official about legislation, or written one letter about an issue.

Yes, I know the profound power of corporate personhood, but how did we get here?

Blanket generalizations about millions of government employees implied in "lying government", coming from people who very likely have not fulfilled their own civic responsibilities, but are quite comfortable calling people they never met and about whose government jobs they know extremely nothing really make me sad.

How are we ever going to address authentic criticism of what our government is and how it functions if too many of us continue to live in this la la land in which the expectation is that "government" should read our minds perfectly and enact perfect laws and design perfect programs, without any effort on our part other than the willingness to punish anyone and everyone else and do anything and everything to avoid the hard work of citizenship ourselves.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
27. They don't think it through and idolize a romanticized past time
Mon Aug 20, 2012, 06:20 PM
Aug 2012

Like the 19th century west. But then you had to worry about protecting yourself. From everything. He's taken it all for granted to the point where he thinks nothing bad would happen. Nobody would cheat him, steal from him, kick him from his house, etc. Because it doesn't happen now.

n2doc

(47,953 posts)
30. If he wants nothing to do with the government, hope he doesn't vote!
Mon Aug 20, 2012, 06:38 PM
Aug 2012

After all, that is just legitimizing their power!

Seriously, though, hope he doesn't vote. Its people like him who make life harder on themselves and everyone else.

Response to CanonRay (Original post)

CanonRay

(14,105 posts)
33. She's a former Independent, turned Progressive
Mon Aug 20, 2012, 06:49 PM
Aug 2012

I think she can't stand the SOB, but tolerates him for reasons beyond my understanding.

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