Telling you right now...you start F-ing with business travelers...it is over

[titaniumsalute]

I traveled by air (and a lot of rental cars) for 16 years. nearly every week I was on the road and probably flew about 30 weeks per year. Business travelers overall are NOT tolerant of additional, needless headaches. Dealing with crowded flights, weather and mechanical delays, and overall stress of whatever they are traveling for business it is a fickle group of people. You start slowing down TSA checks, delayed flights due to long lines, missed connections, etc. they will be very angry and very vocal.

[Achilleaze]

1. republicans are pissing on America

and the russians are laughing their asses off as Comrade Dirty Donny leads the way to a weaker America.


* aka republican Draft-Dodger-in-Chief

[ashling]

33. At what point do we officially become

a FAILED STATE

[workinclasszero]

42. The day Putin and the GOP

installed MF45 into the white house.

[TwistOneUp]

45. But dat's just what rethuglicans do... nt

[NanceGreggs]

82. More notable at this point ...

... is how much they're pissing-off America.

You gotta know that the Republicans up for re-election in 2020, as well as those planning to run for office that year, are shitting themselves right now.

The numbers are in. The majority of the country blames Trump/GOP for the shutdown - and the longer it drags on, the worse it's going to get for them.

The anger is palpable now - it will be one loud, unending scream if the shutdown lasts for another two weeks, a month - or longer. And that growing anger is going to be directed at the GOP.

[HipChick]

2. Agree with OP..did that lifestyle for about 15yrs myself...

No TSA Pre-check due to lack of TSA personnel? Unforgivable

[MissB]

4. Really? They are closing a precheck line

because of lack of personnel? Oooh. That’ll suck. (Can you link me? Thanks!)

[fescuerescue]

72. I just used it 2 days ago.

[bullwinkle428]

3. If the air traffic controllers walked out en masse, this thing would be over in hours.

[Merlot]

12. trumpft would fire them, just like ronnie did.

[OMGWTF]

37. But, who will replace them if there's no pay? It takes years to train.

[uponit7771]

52. How did RayGun do it?

[IronLionZion]

60. Raygun's people planned for it way in advance

secretly training up replacements and utilizing military ATCs

[uponit7771]

61. ah

[TexasBushwhacker]

62. But you have to PAY the replacements n/t

[IronLionZion]

64. Trump likes to fire people

he'll let someone else worry about paying the replacements

[sarisataka]

15. Been there, done that

Backfired

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

27. Did you forget about the PATCO strike?

[bullwinkle428]

44. With the PATCO strike, they actually paid the newly-hired controllers. This

time around, they'll have to tell the prospective candidates that they're working for jack squat.

[uponit7771]

53. +1

[Fresh_Start]

29. air traffic controllers shouldn't walk out...they should slow down

corporate and private flights...giving priority to commercial flights

[calimary]

40. Now there's an idea!

Hey, we need to be mindful of the air traffic controllers! It’s an utterly maddening job! One of the deejays I worked with, back in the day, was an ex-Marine who’d worked as a military controller. He said it was horrifically hard. I think in a job as essential to safety and life support as involving the protection of all those souls in those narrow metal tubes, thousands of feet up off the ground, moving at hundreds of miles per hour - MAN, that would send me crawling toward the ol’ Maalox bottle pretty doggone quickly!

[titaniumsalute]

66. That sounds good on paper but you can't really do that

[beachbum bob]

5. screwing with farmers, manufacturers doen't help either. Trump doesn;t care and GOP to scared at

this moment of taking ANY action


gotta say, I rather enjoy watching the meltdown myself. I feel for all those having to survive the tyrant's tantrums but there will be an end to it all

[pangaia]

19. "I rather enjoy watching the meltdown myself."

Really?

Well, I must say, you might not feel that way when it hits you..

[OMGWTF]

39. I am NOT enjoying what Traitor Tot is doing to my USCG son's family.

They're having a garage sale to raise money for gas to get to a job that doesn't pay. So sad for and ashamed of my country.

[TwistOneUp]

48. Yes, there will be an "end to it all", but not one you'd want

Bankruptcy. Loss of one's home. No dough to rent. Life on the streets. Many are one step away from this.

*Eight Hundred Thousand People. Think about that number.

Then think about that somewhat recent statistic of "the average American" having $400 in the bank. Yeah. NOT good, no bueno.

Rethugs have no heart. Holding 800k Americans hostage for a stinking wall that won't do shit is PROOF that they are unfit for office.

[beachbum bob]

70. lenders work with people I saw when caterpiller was on strike, so its not all dire crapa being

echoed

[Haggis for Breakfast]

79. Excuse me . . .

But people who are NOT affected by the Trump shutdown and have NO idea of what government employees are up against right now, really should STFU.

If you are getting a paycheck, making the mortgage or the rent, paying the utilities, able to buy groceries and basic necessities, put decent food on the table, feed your children (including infants and babies), buy diapers, baby formula/food, put gas in your car, go to the MD, then you need to STFU, because you DO NOT understand what it means to go without a paycheck for OVER THREE WEEKS, with no end in sight. Many people were able to float for the first two weeks, but savings are now being rapidly depleted.

I don't want to hear about effing Caterpillar. Their situation was entirely different.

Your comments are not constructive and reveal a depraved complete lack of comprehension.

[beachbum bob]

84. I know govt workers who are laid off, did you know Caterpillar strikers who

WENT A f*ckiong year without a paycheck?

The situation is no different. NO INCOME IS NO INCOME


grow up

[Haggis for Breakfast]

92. Caterpillar is a private industry, traded on the NYSE.

Explain to us, please, how it is the same.

Right now, 42,000 members of the United States Coast Guard are not getting a paycheck. Caterpillar has never patrolled our shores or protected our coast lines or fought in military action around the globe. Caterpillar is not a part of our national security.

Right now, the Secret Service is not getting a paycheck, Caterpillar has never been in charge of protecting the president or ensuring that U S currency is not counterfeit.

Right now, the FBI is not getting a paycheck. Caterpillar is not a law enforcement agency in charge of safe guarding the nation.

I can go on, if you'd like.

YOU GROW UP.

[TheCowsCameHome]

6. TSA workers should hit the bricks

Tie air travel up in knots and see what happens to Trump's great idea.

[DENVERPOPS]

65. I keep saying

I have been preaching since Dec 23rd, that the TSA & ATC workers should have all walked out that day. Trust me, this whole mess would have been over by Midnight on the 23rd. We need some real scrappers in the Dems, not a bunch of pussy pacifists......
Bring back Franken, Dean, etc IMMEDIATELY. We need street fighters at this point in U.S. history........

[TheCowsCameHome]

68. Agree 100% - no pay, no work.

Why is TSA continuing to stay on the job? Is there a union there?

This whole mess created by Trump could have been ended early-on.

[yardwork]

7. Many business travelers are Republican. They're Trump's real base.

[titaniumsalute]

10. Very true

I mean I know over the years in casual chats with people on planes, bars, etc. that the majority seemed like older white Republicans. Just my observation. But yes these are the ones who live in suburbs top 10% income earners, etc. Now they could just blame Dems but at the end of the day he owned it. They may blame him as well.

[yardwork]

11. I agree with you that they're going to be very annoyed.

The top executives fly in private jets, but they too may begin to be inconvenienced if the air traffic controllers start to sick-out or strike.

[customerserviceguy]

75. I disagree

The business types were more along the lines of never-Trump. It was the people who don't have business deals who voted to bring the whole thing down by nominating and electing (at least through the EC, anyway) Trump.

They're pleased at the havoc they have wrought.

[Baitball Blogger]

8. Right now, I'm just praying that everyone gets home safe.

[ffr]

9. Was out on U.S. forestry land and my RW buddy couldn't get into a locked bathroom

He was pissed. "What are my tax dollars going towards," he said. I didn't realize it was the case, but I suspected it was due to the government shutdown. It was.

I loved the irony. The guy who was cheering the gov't shutdown as a good little Fox watching parrot was pissed the shutdown was effecting him unfairly.

[corbettkroehler]

13. Atlanta Hartsfield Telling Everyone To Plan For 3 Hours To Clear Security (Superbowl Next?)

http://al.com/news/2019/01/traveling-to-atlanta-airport-plan-for-3-hour-wait-on-security-screenings.html

Business travelers who fly commercial largely are Trump's base (other than yours truly). I agree that this will become a growing source of pressure on McConnell to allow a vote.

Remember FAA Austerity under Paul Ryan? Reduced staffing in Air Traffic Control towers and traffic centers led to many delays. It lasted 3 weeks before Ryan got the word and caved.

I expect we're close to that point now.

[Autumn]

14. I always thought if he fucked with farmers it would be over.

But no.

[cab67]

20. There are many more business travelers than farmers.

Not sure it'll make a difference, but it might.

[gopiscrap]

16. exactly.

[pangaia]

25. Can you explain what you mean by ". ATC and TSA should strike on general aviation airports."

and why that might have a different result than "striking at Class B and Class C airports.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

30. Business jets usually fly into major airports, not a little grass strip in Bumfuck Junction, Kansas.

If you're a super-important rich fuck with your own Learjet you don't go to a GA airport, most of which don't have runways long enough for any kind of jet, let alone the amenities Learjet-owning rich fucks are used to. Some large cities have airports besides their main one that can accommodate jets, but those are in Class B airspace anyhow. Also, ATC can't strike. Just ask old PATCO members how their 1981 strike turned out.

[oldsoftie]

80. Actually we get a lot of those Lear types at the airport near me. Avoids ATL; about 70 air miles out

But if youre talking about flying in and STAYING thats another story. These guys are using it to refuel

[IronLionZion]

18. I bet a lot of Republican business travelers are rethinking their support

As dipshit has failed on most of his promises. I recently had a discussion with some fellow who thought Trump build the Keystone XL pipeline and lowered gas prices. Dude had no idea that it hasn't been built and was only used as a campaign issue.

[Act_of_Reparation]

21. Disagree.

Fucking with businessmen hasn't hurt him. Fucking with farmers hasn't hurt him. Fucking with the manufacturing industry hasn't hurt him.

My evidence? The government is still shut down, and he's still in office. If the GOP faced serious electoral consequences, they'd beat Schmuck L'Orange over the head with an override.

[Ohiogal]

28. How in the world

with all this fuckery going on, is his approval rating still at 40%? It’s mind boggling.

[Act_of_Reparation]

31. A frothy mix of denialism and tribalism

Most die-hard Trumpists don't seem committed to any sort of policy. They're committed to Trump, or rather, their idea of Trump. They will continue to support him no matter what. They believe he's going to make America great again, and no amount of bad press will convince them otherwise. It's way easier to say the news is fake than it is to realize your savior is a fucking fraud.

[aggiesal]

34. It's called Faux News, Lumbutt ...

You think they tell their viewers/listeners what they need to hear?

[Act_of_Reparation]

56. Chicken or the egg.

What came first? The "news" networks that only confirm people's preexisting beliefs, or the preexisting beliefs the "news" networks confirm?

It's a conundrum.

[aggiesal]

57. Either way, ...

it wouldn't be "news"

[IronLionZion]

58. It's an endless cycle that keeps snowballing bigger

People are increasingly getting their news and opinion disguised as news from outlets that agree with their worldview, while dismissing any counterpoints as fake news.

[littlemissmartypants]

83. From another thread with a similar question

I read somewhere not too long ago
That 33% of the adults in the USA have a third grade reading level or below, so there's that...

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=11663253

[uponit7771]

54. That's if Russia wasn't involved already, that's their true enabler ... no reason to believe 2018

... senate level races in the south east (Red Don only needed 3 races) were on the up and up and there's no reason to believe 2018 will be on the up and up.

[Act_of_Reparation]

55. I doubt it.

Your confidence in the American people is inspiring. But I feel it is misplaced.

[olegramps]

22. Constant travel for business takes it toll on both you and the family. You don't need more stress.

[Texin]

23. Well, you know Air Force One is also dependent on the ATC. Is that why he's holed up in the WH?

Too scared to put his life in the hands of the ATC?

[pangaia]

26. no

[DesertRat]

32. No. And he's flown to TX last week and LA a couple of days ago

Not to mention Iraq on Christmas. So much for his claim of being holed up in the WH for "weeks".

[IronLionZion]

59. Secret Service is not being paid

Maybe other white house staff might be furloughed and dipshit can't go anywhere, just sit at home and eat fast food and watch Fox News while angrily tweeting.

[clutterbox1830]

24. General public will not do anything unless it effects them sadly.

I still hear people (mostly all Republicans) saying that all federal workers are unnecessary and overpaid.
Once people see how they affect them, they will start slowly to change their minds. However, some "die-hards" mindset will never change and will always go against reason and logic.

I sadly have to say that all furloughed workers all need to not show up. The general public mostly are not effected atm or see the full impact of this shutdown.

[global1]

36. Now If The Shutdown Actually Impacts On The SuperBowl Maybe.....

that would be the straw that breaks the camel's back?

[Mr.Bill]

78. Are you kidding?

Trump hates the NFL. He would be thrilled to destroy the SuperBowl.

[global1]

81. But It's The Fans That Won't Get To The Game....

that would be up and arms at Trump and the Repugs for not ending the shutdown.

Also - think of all the money lost in the city sponsoring the game. Restaurants, hotels, rental cars, souvenirs, etc.

The fans and the business entities vote. A lot of ill will would be generated by the American People if the SuperBowl is impacted by the shutdown.

They could care less about the SOTU - but the SuperBowl is sacrosanct.

[librechik]

35. almost all of Congress flies home commercial every week--including Repubs. They might notice.

[Ford_Prefect]

38. Unless they bitch to the Senate nothing will change.

Unlike Republican Senators, Donny Do Wrong doesn't care about the political calculus or the financial or national security repercussions.

The 2 things which must happen to end this disaster are enough Republican Senators must agree to do it and they must move McConnell to force either Trump's agreement or an override of his veto.

[kstewart33]

41. Flying is frustrating enough.

The extra add-on charges, flight delays, crowds, expensive parking, the long drive to the airport, etc. And the frustration with security checks must be mind boggling.

Gotta feel for anyone who flies, especially today.

[dlk]

43. TSA Agents and Air Traffic Controllers Should Organize a "Sick-Out"

If most of them called in sick for the same two or three days, the shutdown would be quickly ended, along with their shameful exploitation.

[Grins]

46. Absolutely true.

I saw that happen in the last shut-down: business travelers bitched about delays because ATC could not quickly issue clearances.

The bad news: Obama caved and exempted more controllers. There went the issue. He should have empathize owith the travelers and blamed the Republicans - looking at you, Ted Cruz!

He could have added, “The GOP has been arguing over “Big Government” for decades, well, THIS is what it looks like.”

[Roland99]

47. heh...wonder how many have been or will be banned at Flyertalk forums for delving into politics...

[HipChick]

49. heh..Flyertalk is something else...

I pop over there now and again to see what they are barfing about..

[redstatebluegirl]

50. Proves they are all in cahoots with the Russians.

[BamaRefugee]

51. tRump and Rethugs have "F-ed" with EVRYBODY, and they're still rolling along at high speed...

...they know that without the Senate to back up whatever actions the House may take, it's all just gnashing of teeth and rending of garments, unfortunately.

[IronLionZion]

63. Some airlines have already reported millions in losses from less business travel

from government contractors.

[obamanut2012]

67. My father travels about ten days out of the month

Both in the US and Central and South America. He has Global Precheck, and he usually breezes through. He has been waiting between 45 minutes and 90 minutes, and the Global Precheck were closed in both Miami and Charlotte this week, and he missed a plane. He is really to explode.

He voted for Hillary, and Obama before her (twice), so he isn't part of the problem at least.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

69. TSA employees and Air Traffic Controllers cannot legally strike.

Although there could be a massive sick-out for a couple of days.

It's not unreasonable to think that the pilots themselves might decide to stage a wildcat strike, saying they won't fly until the ATC people start being paid again. Unfortunately, most pilots are incredibly right-wing and anti-union, even though they themselves belong to the most powerful and successful union out there, ALPA (Air Line Pilots Association). And Republicans might respond to that simply by going back to paying the controllers, without otherwise ending the shut down. I wouldn't put it past them.

[fescuerescue]

71. It's true. But Democrats travel just as much as Republicans.

Democrats putting pressure on their reps to cave fund the wall, might cancel out Republicans putting pressure on their reps to stand down from the wall.

Net Net. It might just make everyone more angry.

[tavernier]

73. Heavy flight time.

Snowbirds heading for warmer climates and cruises, spring break coming up shortly. Wonder how it will affect tourism.

[customerserviceguy]

74. Maybe

business travelers will figure out how to do their "big deals" without face time. With the plethora of options we have to electronically meet with others, including teleconferencing, it pretty much comes down to ego when it means packing your ass onto a crowded flight and going through the indignities of air travel BEFORE the shutdown, in order to pitch your proposal in person.

Make the best product/service, sell it for the best price, and you won't need to fly someplace to make a deal. It's a waste of fossil fuels to think otherwise.

[Glamrock]

76. Flew to Orlando from midway (Chicago) this week.

Was through security in 15 minutes.

[DFW]

85. Similar to me at LaGuardia

I left midtown Manhattan three hours before flight time because I had heard horror stories about long lines. There was practically no one there at the security line, and this was New York’s La Guardia airport! I twiddled my thumbs for an hour and a half. The other passengers had to have come from somewhere, though. I was in row 22 and the plane was packed solid like a sardine can for the three hour flight to Dallas.

[47of74]

86. When I arrived at Chicago last Saturday

It took over an hour to get through customs but that’s not much different than usual.

Once I got through all that and over to terminal 3 it took about five minutes to go through TSA but I have pre check. I was impressed with the attitude of the Chicago people who were keeping their chins up despite what fuck head and his GOP enablers were doing to them.

[DFW]

87. When we got to Atlanta immigration on December 26th, it was relatively quick, too

Sometimes, they give my wife a hard time, seeing as how she comes from one of those backward, terrrrist-producing third world countries (Germany).

This time, though, she sailed through. Two years ago, they said her fingerprints didn't match, even though she used the same fingers she had always been using. Of course, the fact that Delta left all our luggage in Europe made it REALLY easy to transfer to our onward terminal.......

[Glamrock]

88. "Even though she used the same fingers she had always been using"

Oh shit man, ya got me! I sprayed mountain dew all over my hotel room!

[DFW]

89. Well, the CBP jerk detained her for using differrent ones

They could probably improve their vetting standards somewhat before they let these guys actually work with live passengers.....

[Glamrock]

90. Right?

Sounds like a nightmare!

[DFW]

91. It almost was

Our daughter, who was through in baggage claim, didn’t know what happened, and was getting nervous about our connecting flight. My wife had just undergone a 5+ hour cancer operation a month before, and was in no shape to sit around on a detention bench.

[Glamrock]

93. Oh my god!

That's horrible! Hopefully she knows not all Americans are dumb assholes....

[DFW]

94. Well, she has stayed with me for 44 years, so.....

That didn't exactly help dispel the notion!

And Officer "not the same fingers" was, from his accent and name tag, probably an immigrant from the Dutch Caribbean (St. Maarten, Surinam, Aruba, some such place). So the only thing she got to know was that some immigrants we hire for important positions are just as dumb as the white E-A types that took over the place 300 or so years ago.

[Midnightwalk]

77. Work to rule

Where rules are followed and not bent to soeed things is maybe the safest option. It isn’t risk free and I understand employees who don’t choose not to.

Air travel was already a stressed system before this. Lines are already getting longer as employees are fighting back in ways they feel they can. Winter storms are coming. When the system is working normal it already takes days to recover from major storms.

Failures in complex systems almost always have multiple factors that contribute to the failure.

Safety is the biggest issue. Controllers who are stressed and tired from lack of sleep can make mistakes. TSA already had a high failure rate. Im sure rhere are people in inspection and regulatory roles who are impacted.

Then add in stressed out business travelers. If you tracel that much you probably string together multiple cities over a week or two and stress over evey connection. Getting back home so you can inwind for a few days before leaving again can be more stressful. It’s even worse for sales people whose commissions depend in what they bring in for the quarter.

This will get ugly. I sincerely hope it gets resolved quickly.