Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Tom Rinaldo

(22,913 posts)
Sat Jan 5, 2019, 12:49 PM Jan 2019

Put me down as Yes for Impeachment AFTER Mueller complete's his investigatiom.

That assumes of course that impeachable offenses are found, and I make that assumption. Before then we will have House investigation hearings, held in open session to the extent possible, which all helps lay the groundwork for subsequent impeachment. Were there not an appointed Special Counsel already on the job I might think differently about this. But there is. It seems both proper and strategically sound to me, for multiple reasons, that we allow his exhaustive investigation, with all of the information it uncovers, to wrap up before we move on impeachment. For one thing that information will strengthen our case and make it that much more likely that Trump will actually be removed from office. Without Muelller's Report it seems extremely unlikely that two thirds of the Senate would ever move to remove Trump.

It may still be unlikely that there will be 67 votes in the Senate to remove Trump in either case. But whereas it would no doubt be argued by some (notably Republicans) that the House jumped the gun inappropriately if it impeached without waiting for Mueller's Report, it can and should be argued that the House has an institutional responsibility to our democracy TO impeach the President if a through investigation of his conduct uncovers "High Crimes and Misdemeanors." Mueller has resources to pursue his investigation that the House can never duplicate. I believe our strongest tactical hand is to investigate Trump with open hearings in the House now, and then impeach him based on the findings of those hearings AND of Meuller's inquiry after it is resolved. But aside from that I also believe that is the most ethical and responsible course of action for Democrats to pursue. Gather ALL of the facts and then do their constitutional duty for America. Further, I sincerely believe this all transcends partisan politics. It he Special Counsel issues a report damning of the Trump Administration, I believe the House at that point has no choice but to impeach, no matter where we are in the election cycle, regardless of whether such action were likely to hurt or help us in the 2020 election. That is called upholding the Constitution


If, however, Mueller's investigation is thwarted or throttled in anyway such that the public is prevented from knowing the truth about Trump, I would likely support impeachment at that time.

7 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
 

manor321

(3,344 posts)
1. Basically, yes, but the Congress is ALSO investigating
Sat Jan 5, 2019, 12:51 PM
Jan 2019

Mueller is not the only investigation happening. There are also important investigations run in New York.

AND the House will be doing their own, independent, investigations.

ANY of these could lead to impeachable offenses.

Tom Rinaldo

(22,913 posts)
2. Agreed. But the fullest picture will be assembled once both have done their jobs.
Sat Jan 5, 2019, 12:55 PM
Jan 2019

This is high stakes, I think a lot of people will appreciate having the maximum amount of information available to them on what actually went down, and all of that is in the process of being assembled now.

dlk

(11,569 posts)
4. Given the Depth and Breadth of Republican Corruption...
Sat Jan 5, 2019, 01:02 PM
Jan 2019

...it makes more sense to thoroughly investigate as much of the corruption as possible prior to an impeachment. Subsequent to an impeachment, what’s not investigated and brought to light goes back underground where it will continue to thrive.

RockRaven

(14,974 posts)
5. One thing which could be a real wild-card in the prognostication of Senate votes is whether
Sat Jan 5, 2019, 01:06 PM
Jan 2019

there is any validity to the rumors/speculation/"reporting" that Mueller is going to indict multiple Senators/Reps/GOP officials/the RNC/etc. That could really up-end things, in either direction. It could cement things as explicitly partisan, or it could shake loose dozens of GOPers' votes as they try to distance themselves from those among them who got indicted. [I should point out I'll be surprised if many such indictments actually occur]

I'm also a yes for impeachment after Mueller's report, for the strategic reasons you gave. And I can make that judgment now, before the report is issued, b/c Trump is already implicated in multiple felonies (as detailed in Michael Cohen's SDNY guilty plea) which deserve impeachment.

Pope George Ringo II

(1,896 posts)
7. I'd be a qualified yes in that scenario.
Sat Jan 5, 2019, 02:19 PM
Jan 2019

Before Mueller concludes, the best-case scenario is a complete waste of time, worst case is a funding bonanza for the GOP. After the conclusion, the question becomes about what Mueller can actually prove. If it's there, it's there. And thwarting the investigation is clearly obstruction of justice, so you'd have no choice but to impeach as the last stand of democracy in America.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Put me down as Yes for Im...