A few points about the wall

[SHRED]

[underpants]

1. Consider where all of our major military installations are

Because, you know, that Spanish Armada might come roaring back in any day now.

[akraven]

2. Try putting one up here, you orange asshat.

See Alaska? See defeat.

[Wounded Bear]

3. And it leaves out the what? 75 or 80 International Airports we have...

[Jarqui]

4. Beyond that

(Wikipedia source so not guaranteed to be perfectly accurate)

Secure Fence Act of 2006
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Fence_Act_of_2006
The fencing built under the 2006 act was not the first border fencing in the United States. The U.S. Border Patrol first began to erect physical barriers in its San Diego sector in 1990.[3] Fourteen miles of fencing were erected along the border of San Diego, California and Tijuana, Mexico.[4][5]
....
In 2006, at the time it was passed, George W. Bush's White House touted the fence as "an important step toward immigration reform."[1] The White House Office of the Press Secretary stated that the Act "Authorizes the construction of hundreds of miles of additional fencing along our Southern border; Authorizes more vehicle barriers, checkpoints, and lighting to help prevent people from entering our country illegally; Authorizes the Department of Homeland Security to increase the use of advanced technology like cameras, satellites, and unmanned aerial vehicles to reinforce our infrastructure at the border."[1]
...
2017 GAO report noted: "In addition to the 654 miles of primary fencing, CBP has also deployed additional layers of pedestrian fencing behind the primary border fencing, including 37 miles of secondary fencing and 14 miles of tertiary fencing."[11]
...
Cost
Although the 2006 law authorized construction of a fence, Congress initially did not fully appropriate funds for it (see authorization-appropriation process). "Congress put aside $1.4 billion for the fence, but the whole cost, including maintenance, was pegged at $50 billion over 25 years, according to analyses at the time."[10]
....
Impact and effects
Illegal border-crossings
A report in May 2008 by the Congressional Research Service found "strong indication" that illegal border-crossers had simply found new routes.[13] A 2017 Government Accountability Office (GAO) report, citing U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) data, found that from fiscal year 2010 through fiscal year 2015, the U.S.-Mexico border fence had been breached 9,287 times, at an average cost of $784 per breach to repair.[14] The same GAO report concluded that "CBP cannot measure the contribution of fencing to border security operations along the southwest border because it has not developed metrics for this assessment."[12] GAO noted that because the government lacked such data, it was unable to assess the effectiveness of border fencing, and therefore could not "identify the cost effectiveness of border fencing compared to other assets the agency deploys, including Border Patrol agents and various surveillance technologies."[15]

The fence is routinely climbed or otherwise circumvented.[9] The GAO reported in 2017 that both pedestrian and vehicle barriers have been defeated by various methods, including using ramps to drive vehicles "up and over" vehicle fencing in the sector; scaling, jumping over, or breaching pedestrian fencing; burrowing or tunneling underground; and even using small aircraft.[16] New York Times op-ed writer Lawrence Downes wrote in 2013: "A climber with a rope can hop it in less than half a minute. ... Smugglers with jackhammers tunnel under it. They throw drugs and rocks over it. The fence is breached not just by sunlight and shadows, but also the hooded gaze of drug-cartel lookouts, and by bullets. Border agents describe their job as an unending battle of wits, a cat-mouse game with the constant threat of violence."[9][17]
...
Fencing built under the 2006 Secure Fence Act caused habitat fragmentation that adversely affected wildlife, including endangered wildlife.
...
the Secure Fence Act caused at least 2000 additional deaths in the border region.[19] The "construction of the border fence caused fighting between drug cartels by changing the value of territory for smuggling, undermining agreements between cartels."

There is no evidence this wall will work. And a history of fencing not working - with many of the same flaws as a wall. And no knowledge of the cost effectiveness.

[2naSalit]

20. +1

[erronis]

21. Thanks for the Wikipedia link. I like to look at the Talk tab in WP articles since there

are often useful conversations. Just like some in DU!

CSR report

Citing WSJ: 'Apprehensions, a rough proxy for measuring illegal crossings, were down 18% at the southern border last year and Border Patrol attributes some of that to the fence. But a report in May by the Congressional Research Service found "strong indication" that illegal crossers had simply found new routes.'

Secure Fence Act was passed in September 2006 and the article was last edited in February 2009. So such report could be made in the years 2007 and 2008. After looking for such report in https://crsreports.congress.gov and https://fas.org/sgp/crs/ nothing related was found. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 7rexkrilla (talk • contribs) 12:43, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

The WSJ is a WP:RS. The fact that you could not find something is not an indication that the WSJ is wrong. Snooganssnoogans (talk) 12:51, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
WSJ may or may not be a WP:RS but that doesn't change the facts that the report doesn't exists. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 7rexkrilla (talk • contribs) 12:59, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

Maybe try doing a modicum of diligence before removing sourced material? Border Security: Barriers Along the U.S. International Border, Congressional Research Service, March 16, 2009: "there is also strong indication that the fencing, combined with added enforcement, has re-routed illegal immigrants to other less fortified areas of the border." Neutralitytalk 17:27, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

WSJ is using as source the report mentioned above, in the same report it is clearly stated "In the limited urban areas where border fencing has been constructed, it has typically reduced apprehensions." proving the effectiveness of it (where deployed). Now stop with edit-warring to promote specific narrative/propaganda — Preceding unsigned comment added by 7rexkrilla (talk • contribs) 14:24, 18 December 2018 (UTC)

Absurd to add language that the fence has been proven effective when the source clearly says that there are strong indications that migrants are being re-routed. Your feeling that the fence has been proven effective doesn't belong here. Snooganssnoogans (talk) 14:35, 18 December 2018 (UTC)

There is no feeling just straight facts from the CSR report. Let me cite you the whole paragraph

"A possible issue for Congress concerns the overall effectiveness of border fencing, especially if it is not constructed across the entire border in question. In the limited urban areas where border fencing has been constructed, it has typically reduced apprehensions. However, there is also strong indication that the fencing, combined with added enforcement, has re-routed illegal immigrants to other less fortified areas of the border." Thus proving that the fence (where erected) is effective

Thankfully, WP:OR is not allowed on Wikipedia, and we don't have to rely on the poor deductive reasoning seen above. Snooganssnoogans (talk) 14:44, 18 December 2018 (UTC)

Where is the poor deductive reasoning above? WSJ is used as source, but it is clearly that they have taken out of context part of the proto-source, Changing the source to the original CSR report — Preceding unsigned comment added by 7rexkrilla (talk • contribs) 14:51, 18 December 2018 (UTC)

[harumph]

5. Even more- there are parts of Big Bend that it's physically impossible to fence.

It's so fuckin stupid - this whole thing.

[saidsimplesimon]

6. It's so fuckin stupid - this whole thing.

I agree.

[dalton99a]

10. Easy. Just fill the gaps with cement

Beautiful Russian cement, of course

[watoos]

11. Dumbest idea I have ever heard of in my 71 years.

I was working in Canada and needed to renew my work papers. I was working in NB near Moncton. I drove to the border in Maine, now that is god's country. That border station is in the middle of nowhere.

Does Trump realize that Canada is full of Muslims? How about a wall around Maine's border with Canada. I would like to see that.

[dawn5651]

7. donald the orange menace

the fact the orange menace is threatening to declare a national emergency to get his wall seems to be his signal to his base that he doesn't care if they starve or are homeless.

[erronis]

22. That's because his REAL base are his plutocrat/oligarch friends. They're doing just fine, thank you.

All those maggats are worthless, in his eyes.

[Martin Eden]

8. The wall itself is vulnerable and ineffective

That's the main point -- the wall is stupid in and of itself.

[erlewyne]

9. The wall is for the Moron Club.

Just ignore it, and Trump.

I hate the attention that Trump gets on DU.

Oh, I love that map, super job SHRED.

[Heartstrings]

12. Wasn't just about to post this....

[watoos]

13. Someone shot a video a year ago or so.

They filmed from a helicopter or low flying plane the entire southern border. They sped up the video to condense the time. After watching that video I was convinced that anyone who wanted to wall off that area had to be an idiot.

I wish someone could find that video again.

[AZ8theist]

17. here you go..

[Historic NY]

18. Here.

[link:http://digg.com/video/us-mexican-border-is-really-long|]

[Stellar]

14. Dont forget the wall around Hawaii! n.t.

[calimary]

15. BEAUTIFUL!

[StarryNite]

16. Oh geez!

He probably never thought about that. Don't give the orange piece of shit any ideas!

[dalton99a]

19. He already wants to build walls all over the world