Bernie Sanders' Ugly Campaigning Is Bad for Democrats -- and Great for Trump

[TomCADem]

https://medium.com/s/story/bernie-sanders-bad-attitude-is-bad-for-democrats-and-great-for-trump-bd0ac7376146

All of this will be different in 2020. Sanders will not have the benefit of running against Clinton, and he will have to compete with multiple rivals. Maybe Sanders really has popularized his message and platform enough to win on his own merits. Maybe his popularity will fizzle out as he becomes just another face in a crowded primary field. But then, there is the third, most unpleasant scenario: Maybe Sanders will decide that his success depends on manufacturing another villain.

This brings us — with much dread and weariness — to Beto. Over the 2018 midterms, O’Rourke became the internet’s dreamy indie-rock boyfriend. He had a skateboard! He was in a band with Cedric from At the Drive-In! O’Rourke also received record campaign donations, nearly defeated Ted Cruz in a deep-red state, and, after his defeat, took a meeting with Barack Obama. The buzz O’Rourke created and the places his support came from — media, social media, young people — was reminiscent of Obama. It was also reminiscent of Bernie Sanders. Which probably explains why, shortly after news of the Obama meeting broke, high-profile Sanders supporters began denouncing Beto O’Rourke in the press. Most infamously, David Sirota misleadingly framed a screenshot about O’Rourke’s campaign contributions (0.62 percent of which came from individual workers in the oil and gas industry) to imply he was in the pocket of Big Oil.

I never caught Betomania, but it’s hard to ignore the larger, more obvious pattern — that this has happened to every candidate who has gathered enough buzz to pose a challenge to Sanders, deserving or not. I can believe that O’Rourke is a sizzle in search of a steak. But I find it harder to believe that O’Rourke is the face of Big Oil, and Elizabeth Warren embraces neoliberal capitalism at its most rapacious, and Kamala Harris is the carceral state incarnate, and Cory Booker is popular only due to racial tokenism, and Kirsten Gillibrand is in deep with Big Tobacco, and Amy Klobuchar, I don’t know, never brings a hot dish. They haven’t gotten to her yet.

The problem is not the reporting on these politicians’ individual sins, some of which is correct, and some of which, like Sirota’s freakout, is wildly exaggerated. It’s not even the “boy who cried wolf” quality of hearing so many similar denunciations in a row, though it is increasingly tough to take any one hit piece seriously. It’s the implication that these errors are unilaterally disqualifying and should outweigh any good the candidates might do. There is no acknowledgment, after 2016, of just how dangerous that attitude might be or of what other forces might be arrayed against the candidates in question. The decision to tie Gillibrand to the fact that she represented tobacco companies as a young lawyer, for example, took place before she called for Al Franken’s resignation and her candidacy was nuked from orbit by powerful donors. Sanders’ core supporters went for Gillibrand as hard as possible, right out of the gate, not realizing that institutional sexism would eventually do their work for them. Again.

[dalton99a]

1. .

[Hekate]

2. Well spotted -- and really chilling

[calimary]

3. Good read!

Thank you for posting this, TomCADem. Lots of wise points made here. I hope they’re accepted, and heeded.

[Cha]

4. Wow.. I saw it all and so did

my family and friends.. it really is appreciated that someone(Sady Doyle) has written all this down!

[msongs]

5. "maybe..." or maybe not. not a bernie fan but this sounds like baloney nt

[Cha]

7. Not to me it doesn't.

[ucrdem]

8. We all saw it.

Repeatedly.

[Cha]

9. Mahalo, ucr..

We Sure Did

[MrsCoffee]

44. Hardly.

[disillusioned73]

424. Hit pieces usually do.. ;)

It's gonna be a looooong primary season..

[LanternWaste]

436. Any criticism of a sacred cow is called a hit piece.

The convenience hiding behind a fictional oppression is consistent if not rational

[disillusioned73]

451. OK..

but I don't think we have the same definition of "sacred cow"... are the chosen ones(aka cow) protected by the people or by TPTB & their multimillion $$ campaigns & corporate media connections??

[SunSeeker]

6. K & R

[True Blue American]

10. My objection to Bernie

From the start was the way he bad mouthed Democrats, tried to force his ideas on the Party.

Sorry, Bernie never was a Democrat. He is much too far left, Socialist to me. From the beginning I considered him a drain. He was, he is.

Makes me angry to see the Media present him as a Democrat. He is not.

[iluvtennis]

13. +++ agree.

[betsuni]

22. +1

[NurseJackie]

62. Thank you and BLESS you for having the courage to say that out loud.

I try not to be so direct and frank and HONEST in such matters for obvious reasons.

[uponit7771]

105. +1

[NastyRiffraff]

148. Yes, a thousand times yes!

This is so simple, it shouldn't even have to be said. But some INSIST Bernie is a "real" Democrat (as opposed to those who actually are Democrats), even though he's said very clearly, multiple times, that he is not. And despite the fact that he consistently trashes the Democratic Party.

[TCJ70]

168. His main ideas are actually quite popular. Themes of affordable healthcare and education.

Do you still oppose those ideas today? Most of those things were already part of the Democratic platform to begin with in some shape or form. You’re right that he doesn’t have a D after his name, but many of the same things he pushed for are going to be taken up by the field for 2020. Will those people have your support?

[True Blue American]

316. Democrats have been working

On those ideas for years. Actually, Bernie just copied them.

Have you forgotten the ACA? Or Medicare. Even Social Security. None of those ideas came from Independents.

I am much too old to listen to the ravings of an 80 year old man,who was a handiman until he was 41 when he managed to get elected Mayor of a small town in Vermont. Spent 30 years in Government of one of the smallest states in the Union.

[ehrnst]

327. Democrats have actually gotten those ideas into existence.

CHIP (HRC and Ted Kennedy) the ACA, keeping Planned Parenthood as an option for Medicaid recipients, Head Start, Medicaid, Medicare, Pell Grants....

He talks about things that have been worked on by Democrats since before he came on the national scene, including Single Payer.

He just hasn't been the only one, and he wasn't the first. He's happy to be credited with originating them, however.

[pnwmom]

11. Good article. Thanks. n/t

[iluvtennis]

12. Kind of hypocritical of Sanders as in my opinion "ugly campaigning" was his MO in 2016 election.

[PaulX2]

14. Bernie Opposes Government Ran By Billionaires Not Beto

This article is garbage.

[Cha]

16. No, the article is Not "garbage".

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

86. You said it!! But, hey, it's anti-Bernie, so let's go for it!! Sad to see this happening...

but, not surprising.

[Blue_true]

125. It is not about being anti Bernie. It is about people running for our nomination having

accountability. If Bernie's message resonates, he will greatly influence the party platform and legislating, regardless of whether he becomes the nominee.

My concern about Bernie is that he does not give a full effort if he is not the focal point, doing that this time around gives us a second Trump term and ALL of us that are members of DU might as well forget seeing good government for what remains of our lives. Do you want to risk that? I certainly don't.

[True Blue American]

318. Thank you for that.

We have Pelosi, the seasoned Pro in the House. She is traing the younger ones to take her place.

Now, we need a Democrat,who is proud to call himself a Democrat with fresh ideas on how to solve our many problems, one who is Progressive and on top of the problems we now face.

We made a good start with President Obama. He is now working hard to get us back on top.

We accomplished a great deal in 2018, need to do much more in 2020.

[ehrnst]

332. +1000

[smirkymonkey]

15. K&R

[shanny]

17. BDS

smdh

[betsuni]

21. LOL

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

32. Left out Bernie's not a Democrat... imagine the sources one could cite today against

any number of current potential candidates or former camdidates!! Anyone can say anthing I guess and it' okay to cite and quote it?! Just wow!! Now, THAT will REALLY unite the different factions of our party!!

[NurseJackie]

264. ...

[TexasTowelie]

289. Is the statement that "Left out Bernie's not a Democrat"

supposed to influence people who are not Bernie supporters to change their mind and start supporting Bernie? Is THAT statement REALLY going unite the different factions of our party?

The responses that you've made in this thread indicate a lot of contempt and callousness towards other DUers. In addition, the responses have absolutely zero effect as far as persuading us to start supporting Bernie--if anything the antagonistic comments are harming Bernie. While the OP is also antagonistic, it isn't helping your case by repeating the same responses that I've seen from you for months. How many times have you previously stated, "Left out Bernie's not a Democrat" in other threads?

I see plenty of comments from people on DU and other social media that indicate that while they supported Bernie in 2016, they won't support him in 2020. Where is Bernie going to find new supporters to replace those he has lost and grow even more supporters that will get him the nomination? Bernie has a base of support which is stagnant as far as growth is concerned. While Bernie has money to spend on this campaign, money does not equate to votes.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that when it becomes apparent that Bernie can't win that he will concede before the convention instead of lingering around and creating more strife. However, I won't be surprised if his ego won't let him.

[Cha]

300. Well done, TexasT!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

301. You can't be serious... Bernie's support is still strong among the people I know who voted

for him last time. Sure he may have lost some others' support, with so many other candidates considering a run in 2020, but that's to be expected. Bernie polls exceptionally well, usually in the top two... we'll see if he can grow that support. But, we're talking about a guy who started out 60 points behind in his last presidential bid... based on that campaign performance, I think Bernie has shown he is MORE than capable of running another effective campaign, and also bringing in even more new voters who otherwise wouldn't bother voting.

[TexasTowelie]

309. Yes, I am serious.

Actually, Bernie has shown that he isn't capable of running an effective campaign. I base that conclusion upon these facts:

1) The allegations of sexual harassment and pay inequity in his previous campaign.
2) His inability to follow up with his promises such as providing his tax returns.
3) His inability to capture the nomination when there were only two candidates in the race.

I'm sure that there are more, but I don't see the point of adding more details to a list that you will conveniently choose to ignore.

I'm still waiting for reasons why anybody should change their minds and vote for Bernie. What about Bernie has changed such that he will gain additional support from Democrats? I don't see any momentum in his favor--just comments on DU and Facebook from former supporters including those of friends who are either still in college or recent graduates.

[True Blue American]

320. Bernie promised free College.

[TexasTowelie]

321. I forgot.

I'd like to get some free college myself. I would take all the classes on an audit basis and specialize on my social life to make up for all the things that I missed out as an undergrad because I was spending too much time solving math problems or in the science labs. It's a shame that I went to a private university so I'm not eligible for Bernie's free college plan.

[True Blue American]

323. I would love free College

But with the system we now have it is not feasible for now, but once Democrats get the budget under control, get out of the wars that are bankrupting us we could do that.

I would like to see Physicians get free College, take the massive profit out of health care and drug prices.

But those things have long been Democratic goals.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

340. I'm all for that and forgiving college debt... these are good solid progressive policies.

[ehrnst]

359. Hillary had great ideas for making that a reality. (nt)

[TexasTowelie]

310. BTW, I forgot to mention

that the person who showed that he was capable of bringing in new voters in Texas was Beto. I can see Beto generating that enthusiasm in a national campaign if he chooses to run.

[ehrnst]

342. I think that Bernie will be just fine without your

challenging everyone who has a criticism of being something other than logical or well meaning.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

345. "Logical or well meaning"... riiiiight. Now that's funny!! Good one!!

[ehrnst]

354. And now we have the

"that's so funny I forgot to laugh" response when unable to formulate an answer.

I can't wait for what's next.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

357. Not takin' the bait... sorry to disappoint you!

[ehrnst]

410. And Bingo!

[True Blue American]

319. You forget the MSM

Constantly callling Bernie a Democrat.

Do not forget that same Media pushed the lie of the Iraq war on us.

For me I would like to move on from 2016. That loss should have taught us a great deal about division. It is now time to come together, move on.

[George II]

356. Here is something I recently realized - I've been on DU since 2005, and I don't recall...

...ever seeing the name "Bernie Sanders" posted anywhere on this site until 2015*. Now he's a household name around here.

Where were all of these people prior to 2015?

Also, I've been politically active for more than 40 years, the last 30 here in New England, and I never heard of or from him until he started making regular appearances on MSNBC, again in 2015.

Curious, eh?

*No doubt someone will do a search and find a post or two from before 2015.

[TexasTowelie]

415. The first time that I heard of Bernie Sanders was in 1998 when he co-sponsored legislation

to dump radioactive waste from Vermont and Maine near the impoverished community of Sierra Blanca. The next time that I heard of him was in 2012 when Bernie suggested that President Obama should be primaried. With all of that time in Congress, I find it odd that I never heard a positive story about him.

I admit that my interest in politics has wavered since my time in college during the 1980s, and my focus didn't extend into the New England states. Some of his obscurity is understandable since Republicans were in control of the legislative and executive branches of government, such that no Democrat could possibly get bills signed into law. However, Bernie is as much a part of the establishment as any other representative so I didn't take his attacks on the establishment seriously.

[Gothmog]

422. I remember hearing about sanders plan to primary President Obama

I really had not heard of sanders before that

[essme]

291. He isn't a socialist either. smh...

[ehrnst]

331. Whataboutism.

Along with a false equivalency.

That often happens when argues from a very emotional place.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

338. Nice insult... score one for you!

[ehrnst]

339. That's what those arguments are called.

Look it up, if you don't believe me.

Here you go.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Whataboutism

https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/245/False-Equivalence

You're welcome.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

343. Looks like YOU'RE the one now "arguing from a very emotional place," as you like to say.

[ehrnst]

344. Just pointing out the obvious.

Did you get a chance to read the links?

That should clear things up for you.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

347. That's not what we're talking about... don't pretend.

[ehrnst]

350. That's exactly what I'm talking about. Don't pretend it's not.

The fish aren't biting today.



You might want to calm down because that can lead to posting things that you might regret.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

353. Yes, calm down, that's it... reflect much?!

Again, you're showing all the signs of a losing argument... you might wanna quit digging.

[ehrnst]

355. Again, I think Bernie will be fine without you picking fights with anyone

who doesn't agree with him.

You seem to think otherwise.

Again... posting in anger often leads to regret.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

358. Guess not.

[ehrnst]

360. You'll be too exhausted to actually do anything for him at this rate. (nt)

[lapucelle]

48. How so?

Before we even begin, we must admit that Sanders’ run has done lots of good, namely by mainstreaming socialist ideals and class consciousness. We need student debt forgiveness and free college, universal health care, a Green New Deal, and universal basic income, and I am grateful that the Sanders movement has directly or indirectly placed those things within the realm of possibility.

[shanny]

90. "Before we even begin"?

Headline reads "Bernie Sanders' Ugly Campaigning...." or, if you prefer the link "bernie-sanders-bad-attitude-is-bad..." and then goes on to talk about some of Bernie Sanders' supporters...who I would suspect are Russian bots anyway because why wouldn't they be at this point? It worked before.

That's how so.

[lapucelle]

103. The author of the opinion piece doesn't limit his discussion to BS supporters.

Not that I agree with or endorse this perspective, the author writes specifically about what he thinks was the candidate's responsibility.

The lingering anger many Clinton supporters feel at Sanders isn’t because he ran against her or because he ran with the goal of pushing her to the left. Again, many of the ideas Sanders has nudged into the American mainstream are good ones. That mistrust stems from how reckless Sanders was with the anger he riled up. Long after he knew he’d lost, he continued to call Clinton “unqualified” or insist she was the head of a massive conspiracy. He knew it could do no good, and he should have seen that the dangerous toll of his negative messaging — the death threats to Democratic Party officials and reporters, the demolished coalitions and names dragged through the mud, the ever-increasing threat that if there was no Bernie, the nation itself would bust — was rising. Yet he appeared shocked that he could not undo the damage; even Bernie Sanders got booed for not supporting Bernie Sanders.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

362. True Shanny, but, I must admonish you for using facts and reason when it comes to Bernie. LOL!

[shanny]

387. ...

[TreasonousBastard]

18. Anyone who followed the election could see this if they wanted to...

Bernistas were often more like members of a cult than a political movement. And Bernie's eventual support of Hillary was begrudging at best and largely useless after the damage was done.

Bernie the politician as many good ideas, although some of them would hardly see the light of day in the real world. Bernie the man is vindictive and to be wary of.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

34. "Bernistas"... okay. Bernie-bots anyone?! Why the decisiveness?!

[True Blue American]

42. It is not devisive

Last edited Sun Jan 6, 2019, 04:49 PM - Edit history (1)

When you pretend to be a Democrat, are not and try to force the party to accept your far left ideas.

I will not say a word against a real Democrat. I will speak out against a pretender.

[catbyte]

54. He really turned me off when he ditched the Democratic party the minute he lost the

Last edited Sat Jan 5, 2019, 12:16 PM - Edit history (1)

nomination. So what if he caucuses with the Democrats? He's kind of like a squatter, I guess. He uses the label "Democrat" when it suits him. I don't like that. I don't like that a lot.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

66. A "squatter"?! Hey, that's a new one... kudos!!

[True Blue American]

78. And the Media chimes

Right in, putting him in every poll, calling him a Democrat. Upsets me every time I hear it.

You want to remain and Independent so you can win in Vermont, then run as an Ind!

[True Blue American]

93. Squatter fits!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

65. Oh, okay, a "pretender," I see. And "far sighted ideas," LOL, good one!!

Yeah, that's why so many potential Democratic candidates who hope to have a chance in hell to capture the nomination are working harder to adopt Bernie's "far-sighted ideas" than a one-legged man in an ass-kicking contest!! Bernie's a "pretender," yeah riiiight... I get it!! haha, too funny!!

[True Blue American]

80. Bernie made it clear he was a pretender

When he lied that he would go back to the Senate as a Democrat, quickly changed back. He can not do that this time.

I hear Democrats talking about what they want to do for the middle class. They made a great start the first day. I do not hear far out ideas that do not fit moderates like me.

[shanny]

389. "far sight"?

"far sighted"? "far right"? "far out"? "far cry"? "far and away"? "the far side"?

When you pretend to be a Democrat, are not and try to force the party to accept your far sight ideas.
seems to be an odd usage of language

[True Blue American]

390. Far left!

Been awake much too long!

[shanny]

392. oh OK

btw--have you realized that Bernie's far left ideas have largely moved into the Democratic mainstream?

[True Blue American]

394. Depends on what

You are talking about. Democrats have always stood for the middle class wor ker,strengthening programs to help them, long before anyone ever heard of Bernie Sanders.

As long as I can remember.

[RandiFan1290]

83. republicons called us 'Clintonistas' at the demand of rush limbaugh

How original

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

87. Yes, caught that!! How original, indeed.

[mcar]

97. We're already seeing the "I won't vote for the nominee if you're not nice to me"

threats all over the internet - just like in GE 2016.

That is divisiveness, not appropriately vetting a possible candidate.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

118. I agree with you there... I don't giva shit WHO the nominee is, I would walk over hot coals to vote

for her or him... just like I did last time.

[mcar]

131. I'm with you

I'll walk over hot coals to vote for the Democratic nominee - even if she/he isn't my 1st choice.

[Eliot Rosewater]

209. Indeed we are, some tried to warn...some tried to warn sigh

[ehrnst]

341. You seem to be in the mood to accuse everyone who doesn't agree with you

of insults or "divisiveness."

This article really got you upset and emotional - not the best time to post.

[Kahuna7]

35. 100%. They way he scowled all the way through the convention...

was a clear message to his berners. And as you said, the damage was already done. For bernie supporters to point out that bernie endorsed and campaigned for Hillary, they fail to recognize that once you convince your people that the opponent is satan, it's inevitable that many of them will believe what you said the first time and not come around no matter what you say.

Same with Shaun King. He painted Hillary as evil and undeserving of support....until the eve of the election. Do you think all those people he convinced that Hillary was satan were going to now support her? It doesn't work that way.

[Cha]

37. It sure as hell doesn't..

Mahalo for the reminder, Kahuna!

[Kahuna7]

39. Hey Baby! Mahalo to you! nt

[lapucelle]

52. Some participants inside the convention seemed willing to continue to damage the Democratic nominee,

even if they had to use RWTPs to do it. These were real people, not bots.

Once the false narratives had hardened into an alternate reality (in the minds of some people), it was impossible to undo the damage. And of course the MSM was happy to play along and recycle a tried-and-true ratings-boosting storyline.

[Kahuna7]

57. Yep. Those were not bots at that convention. They were hardened berners. nt

[yardwork]

77. The behavior of Bernie's delegates at the DNC was unforgivable.

DUer Gothmog was a Democratic delegate and witnessed the organized booing by Sanders' delegates of John Lewis, who is a civil rights hero and icon.

Bernie Sanders did nothing to stop this. It was a disgraceful moment in history. Unforgivable.

Is that Sanders' delegate holding a "liar" sign? Disgraceful.

[True Blue American]

91. And they think we forget

All this. Now,with the letter on sexual harrassment to comes ot benie supporters called Hillary supporter#, “ Bull dikes,” and other names. This is the way you speak about fellow Democrats?

[LongtimeAZDem]

113. Remember the Fart-a-Thon! /nt

[Gothmog]

201. These sanders protesters were kept far away fron the convention

I saw mention of this protest on DU while at the convention but no one noticed this at the convention

[Kahuna7]

346. People noticed it on TV, social media and other media .

[Gothmog]

364. I was at the convention and no one there paid attention

The security for the national convention was tight. You had to pick up credentials for that day every morning. Then you had to go through secret service screening including having your bag checked and x-ray scan. The closest that anyone got to the site was over a mile away. Again no one paid attention to the protesters outside the convention.

There were stunts inside the convention. The Clinton campaign had a good infra structure in place. In addition to warning us about the booking of Congressman John Lewis, we were warned when various protests were scheduled. We got at least 10 minutes advanced notice of any protest or stunt.

[whathehell]

114. Bernie called out the noxious, sexist "Bernie bros" publicly..

It was televised.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

119. There you go again... citing facts!! You're standing in the way of a good Bernie bashing!!

[whathehell]

135. Lol..You got that right!

It's always a problem.

[yardwork]

142. Show me. Link it. Did he stop his delegates from organizing the booing of John Lewis?

[whathehell]

297. Here

https://m.huffingtonpost.com.au/entry/sanders-condemns-bernie-bros_us_56b75a28e4b08069c7a79b1e

https://amp-timeinc-net.cdn.ampproject.org/v/amp.timeinc.net/time/4357406/hillary-clinton-sexist-donald-trump?amp_js_v=a2&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQECAFYAQ%3D%3D#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s

You can reaearch the other issue yourself.

[LongtimeAZDem]

302. A week after the fact, in a brief statement that seemed to show that he was unaware of the extent

of the activity.

[whathehell]

304. Nothing would be ernough for some.

I'm not interested in pointless arguments.

[ehrnst]

330. Indeed.

[LongtimeAZDem]

333. Then stop making them. Your link said nothing about the booing of John Lewis, which is what you

responded to. It was just a general "I don't like stuff like that".

So, yes, it wasn't nearly enough, and I'm surprised you think it is.

[Gothmog]

369. The Texas delegation shared a bus with the Georgia delegation

There were some members of the Georgia delegation who were really upset. You can expect some ads on this if sanders runs

[whathehell]

411. You "stop making them"...I responded to a general accusation that

that Bernie "never apologized" for the bad behavior of some of the bros, which was false. I didn't mention specifics, so stop trying to nail me on that cross. Goodbye & good luck.

[Gothmog]

420. You do know that sanders did not apologize

Please read the material you linked to. There was no apology

[Gothmog]

368. I was at the convention and sanders did nothing to stop the protests occuring during the convention

How does a rather weak and sad statement a week after the convention help?

Again, my daughter was my guest at the convention and she had a guest pass for the first night of the convention. A group of sanders delegates decided to scream obscenities at her and call her the c-word because she would not try to get me to change my vote. sanders did nothing at the convention to stop this conduct in the real world.

Do you really think that a very weak statement issued a week after the convention was sufficient?

[ehrnst]

329. Remember when he told his supporters to not share the Russian propaganda

traced back to the Ukraine, slandering HRC and promoting Jill Stein, that was appearing on his FB pages during the General when his staff was told about it?

Or put a stop to the rumor flying around social media that the cut on his cheek at the Convention was due to the DNC "roughing him up" to get him to concede, when it was actually a biopsy?

[MrsCoffee]

159. After the Vegas convention he condemned violence, but not his supporters.

He also heaped criticism on party leaders, seemingly justifying the anger — if not the actions — of his backers.

A month later Bernie Sanders made a direct appeal to supporters in an interview that aired on CNN's "State of the Union," imploring them not to engage in violence after a week in which protesters — some apparently loyal to the Democratic underdog — attacked Donald Trump backers in California.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/06/05/bernie-sanders-tells-supporters-to-knock-off-the-violence/?utm_term=.6f49bae740fe

TAPPER: I want to ask you about some of the violence we've seen by anti-Trump protesters against supporters of Trump. Some of these people who have been very violent have been seen with your signs, Bernie Sanders signs, chanting your name. Do you condemn the violence?

SANDERS: I condemn it, absolutely. And let's be very clear: We have millions and millions of people who are supporting us, and I want to make it clear that any person who is a Bernie Sanders supporter, please, do not in any way, shape or form engage in violence. That is absolutely not what this campaign is about.

~~~~~~~~~~~

I guess you could say that's calling out noxious, sexist Bernie Bros publicly....

Regardless, better late than never.

[lapucelle]

161. So was this...

https://www.nbcnews.com/video/sanders-dodges-question-about-convention-disturbance-687328835563

[Gothmog]

204. My whip told me that sanders was asked to talk to his delegates and he declined

[lapucelle]

216. Did BS ever condemn the dollar bill incident? N/T

[Gothmog]

221. Not to my knowledge

sanders issues one text message on the Sunday night of the convention and after that evidently ignore the antics of his delegates.

At one point, the chairman of the Texas Democratic Party made the head of the Texas sanders delegation sit next to two sanders delegates who were yelling obscenities to felmale Clinton delegates.

[betsuni]

226. I just read somewhere that 380 million for Democratic candidates up and down ballot

was raised at the fundraiser Hillary attended when they threw dollar bills at her car. The bill-throwers must have been happy that Republicans won majorities in the House, and of course Trump.

[lapucelle]

164. Here's what Vox had to say in May 2016:

Sanders supporters booed and shouted obscenities at California Sen. Barbara Boxer when she tried to call for unity; Boxer said later that while she didn't "want to use the word threatened," she "feared for [her] safety." State party chair Roberta Lange ended up calling an abrupt end to the meeting and fleeing the convention stage to a chorus of boos.

snip====================================================

Democratic officials, including Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid (who is from Nevada), called on Sanders to denounce these actions. In a statement released Tuesday afternoon, Sanders only did so in the most perfunctory way: "It goes without saying that I condemn any and all forms of violence, including the personal harassment of individuals," he wrote.

snip======================================================

This isn't the first time Sanders has been asked to condemn the behavior of his followers or help keep them in line. But in the past, he's been more willing to do it. In February, when CNN's Jake Tapper asked Sanders about his supporters making sexist comments to Clinton supporters online, here's what he said:

"We don’t want that crap. ... We will do everything we can and I think we have tried. Look, anybody who is supporting me that is doing the sexist things is — we don’t want them. I don’t want them. That is not what this campaign is about." But February was ages ago for the Sanders campaign.

[Cha]

170. Thank You for the Reality Check, lapucelle.

It was Horrendous!

[LisaM]

185. The Nevada caucus was a harbinger.

It was unbelievable, and they continued it all the way to the state convention.

[lapucelle]

190. And then to the national convention. N/T

[Gothmog]

199. When?

I was at the National Convention and I saw no efforts for sanders to call out his delegates. sanders sent one text Sunday night before the convention and then refused to do anything else.

I was warned about the planned stunt for sanders delegates to boo Congressman John Lewis by my whip 20 to 30 minutes in advanced of this stunt. According to my whip, sanders was asked to stop this stunt and declined. I was also at the Texas Delegation breakfast when a group of sanders delegates came an and demanded that we condemn Hillary Clinton

sanders spoke to the Texas delegation the next morning and his speech was again solely about himself. There was a mini-riot due to his delegates the prior morning and the only thing that sanders talked about was himself. sanders did nothing to deal with the fact that his delegates were out of control and did nothing to try to help Hillary Clinton win the general election.

Finally a group of sanders delegates yelled at my daughter and called her the c-Word because she would not try to get me to change my vote. Again sanders was asked to tell his delegates to behave during the convention and sanders refused

[whathehell]

299. See post #297.

[Gothmog]

313. So booing Congressman John Lewis was acceptable

I was at the Texas delegation breakfast where his followers caused a major disturbance. Sanders showed up the next morning to talk about himself. There was no apology made in that speech.

If sanders runs, there are good democrats like my whip who will speak out. The Congressman John Lewis incident will come up in some ads for Super Tuesday

[whathehell]

324. Again, read the post.

I never said a word about John Lewis. Try again.

[Gothmog]

336. I did and it did not support your claims

Again, I was at the National Convention. Sanders did nothing at the convention to stop the conduct.

[whathehell]

408. Wrong. My links address his behavior THROUGHOUT the campaign

not the National Convention in particular Goodbye & good luck.

[Gothmog]

418. Did you read the articles that you linked to?

You do know that the concept of an apology involves saying that you are sorry. I missed that in the Huffington Post article. Here is what sanders stated

“I have heard about it. It's disgusting,” Sanders said. “Look, we don't want that crap. ... We will do everything we can and I think we have tried. Look, anybody who is supporting me that is doing the sexist things is -- we don't want them. I don't want them. That is not what this campaign is about.”

I do not see an apology in that quote. I also know that sanders did nothing to stop the attacks at the convention other than one text on the Sunday night. According to my whip, sanders was asked to stop the stunt with Congressman John Lewis and sanders declined. If sanders wants to use this non-apology in the general election, there are a ton of people at the convention including my whip and other Clinton workers who would be glad to discuss what happened

The second link is to an article about a lady who sold anti-Clinton merchandise
https://amp-timeinc-net.cdn.ampproject.org/v/amp.timeinc.net/time/4357406/hillary-clinton-sexist-donald-trump?_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQECAFYAQ%3D%3D&amp_js_v=0.1#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s

She doesn’t necessarily agree with their message. In fact, she voted for Democrat Bernie Sanders in the primary, and plans to support Clinton in the fall. But she knows what the marketplace wants. “The meaner they are, the more people buy them,” she says. “These buttons are completely sexist.”

Sam Costantino has found much the same thing with his online decal business. “Anti-Trump stuff is not selling. It’s just the anti-Hillary stuff that’s selling,” he says, estimating that the Hillary merchandise is 100 times more popular.

I do not understand how this link helps your case.

If sanders runs, expect some Clinton workers like my whip to come forward and talk about how little sanders did to stop the bad behavior of his delegates.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

70. Bernie's supporters like me were light-years ahead in supporting Hillary against Shroom-Head...

compared to the PUMAs, who refused to support Obama in droves... I'm proud of the "Berners," as you call and dismiss them.

[SidDithers]

108. Bullshit...

That kind of gaslighting won't work here.

Sid

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

117. Know your history & learn from it. The constant Bernie bashin by some duz NOTHING 2 unite our party.

Last edited Sun Jan 6, 2019, 02:21 PM - Edit history (1)

Sounds more like the truth hurts.

[Cha]

217. Like BS' bashing of the Dem party "did

nothing to unite the Democratic Party"?

[NurseJackie]

268. Nobody is doing that.

[ehrnst]

348. This is what I was talking about.

Lashing out isn't really an effective way to make your point, unless your point is "I'm furious, so stop posting right now!"

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

351. I know the truth hurts, which is why u felt u must mischaracterize my arguments and hurl insults.

How you know you're losing the argument. Your time would be much better spent boning up on your history... it helps in not repeating it.

[ehrnst]

352. I see we now have the classic

"I know you are, but what am I?" response.

[lapucelle]

374. We warned the third party spoiler voters, the slash and burn crowd bent on denying

the Democrats a victory at any cost (even if it meant voting for Trump), and the lazy stay at homes that the result could be as disastrous as it was in 2000. It was, in fact, worse.

As for the apocryphal PUMA effect, Obama won his election, and he won it with the wholehearted support of a former opponent who understood the importance of working hard for a cause greater than herself.

The fact will always remain that in the three states that gave Trump his electoral college victory, the number of BS voters who switched their allegiance to Trump in the general gave Trump his margin of victory in those three states. Those voters put Trump in the White House, and anyone responsible will face history's approbation.

[BannonsLiver]

126. +1

That poster seems to create their own reality.

[whathehell]

412. Confusing your opinion with fact won't either.

[lunamagica]

138. So, what do you think of their behavior during the convention. Look at the picture Lapucelle

Last edited Sat Jan 5, 2019, 04:05 PM - Edit history (1)

posted. A woman holding a sign or banner calling our nominee a liar. Did that not happen?

Now, show me a picture where Hillary supporters tried to sabotage Obama during the convention. Wkere they booed him. Where they turned their back to him...where they had signs calling him a liar. I'll be patiently waiting

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

144. Of course that was wrong and I've condemned that & similar acts

by those who would create discord and subvert unifying the Democratic party... but. they are no different than the PUMAs, who also fostered disunity. Yet, that properly wasn't held against Hillary when she ran again... so why beat up on Bernie for a few mutinous rogue elements?! Think I know why.

[lunamagica]

146. Again, I ask, did they try to sabotage Obama's nomination at the convention? Did they Boo him, turn

their backs on him, displayed signs calling him a liar?

Did they or didn't they behave that way at the convention?. If they didn't, there's a world of difference right there.

What happened at the convention was much more than "a few mutinous rogue elements". The convention is crucial to an election, an the damage that the bros caused there can't be denied...and I'll answer my own question...no, there was nothing that came even close during the '08 convention from Hillary supporters to what we saw in '16 from Sander supporters. Not Even Close.

[progressoid]

307. There was also a lot of head butting in 08 between the Clinton and Obama camps.

If Obama hadn't won the election, I'm sure there would have been a fair amount of finger pointing at the Clinton supporters for not coming through for Obama. Luckily, he won, so history ignores the 17% of Clinton supporters who voted for McCain. And had Hillary won in 2016, I'm sure we would similarly have ignored the 12% of Sanders supporters who voted for Trump.

[lunamagica]

311. Did they make an spectacle of themselves at the '08 convention? Did they try to sabotage Obama

at the convention? Did they turn their backs on him and called him a liar?

That's my question.

[progressoid]

314. The Google machine can help with that.

Took a minute or so but found something. I'm sure you can find a few more here & there.

[lunamagica]

315. Sorry, but I don't see where they tried to sabotage THE CONVENTION

Where they disrupted THE CONVENTION, where they called him a liar at THE CONVENTION.

Try again.

[progressoid]

403. Sorry, I missed the convention part of your request.

Just to clarify, is it OK to vote for the Republican nominee as long as you are polite about it?

[ehrnst]

349. Don't hold back.

The resentments run very deep...

[progressoid]

398. Resentmenty certainly did run deep in 2008.

And in 2016, and 1984, and 1992, and, gee, it's almost as if some people can't get on board with Party Unity.

[ehrnst]

406. Not sure who you are responding to.

I had no connection with the group in your link.

Whataboutism?

[George II]

372. That first one was not at the convention but at a reception sponsored by the RNC. Two others....

....are opinion pieces from Politico.

None of them talk about Clinton supporters booing anyone at the convention.

[progressoid]

402. You're right. None of those links talk about Clinton supporters booing anyone at the convention.

My memory is a little shaky. Apparenty everything was wine and roses in 2008. It was the dawning of the Age of Aquarius. The lion and the lamb lay down together.

And other than those measly few million Clinton supporters who voted for McCain, we were all in seventh heaven.

[lapucelle]

189. ...

False Equivalence

An argument of claim in which two completely opposing arguments appear to be logically equivalent when in fact they are not. The confusion is often due to one shared characteristic between two or more items of comparison in the argument that is way off in the order of magnitude, oversimplified, or just that important additional factors have been ignored.

[NurseJackie]

265. ...

[NurseJackie]

76. At the convention, that scowl certainly didn't do much to evoke any sense...

At the convention, that scowl certainly didn't do much to evoke any sense of unity or solidarity. His attitude at the convention gave me the impression he wasn't all that into the idea of "Stronger Together". That's sad that so much time was spent licking wounds instead of embracing reality.

For bernie supporters to point out that bernie endorsed and campaigned for Hillary, they fail to recognize that once you convince your people that the opponent is satan, it's inevitable that many of them will believe what you said the first time and not come around no matter what you say.

It was a wasted opportunity to SET AN EXAMPLE and to LEAD his delegates who were obviously feeling bitter. By failing to do so, and not making a sincere effort to get EVERYONE on board and excited about our party's nominee, those followers were allowed to be "set free" into the real word... to spread their discontent... or they would continue to pout and remain silent, doing nothing further for the party's nominee.

Same with Shaun King.

Don't get me started about him. Ugh! I put him in the same basket as Susan Sarandon, Cornel West, Michael Moore, Ralph Nader, Jill Stein. Sickening.

[karynnj]

143. True, some will continue to believe what was said earlier in many cases

This is why 25% of the HRC voters voted for McCain in the general election ... and 10% of the Sanders primary voters voted for Trump.

In the case of 2016, many might have long before decided they could not vote for Clinton -- which led them to vote for Sanders and then Trump. As people have posted HRC had years of being attacked. From somethings I have heard, many people who were already never Clinton were persuaded by Democratic Sanders supporters who did work hard to make them aware that some beliefs were lies and that on many issues Clinton was much closer to Sanders position than Trump was.

ALL candidates have supporters who the candidate might well be appauled by.

[NurseJackie]

147. That wasn't my point.

Oh well.

[uponit7771]

106. +1, salty from the start

[jrthin]

225. Amen!

[dembotoz]

19. So standing up for what u believe not the Dem way..got it

[betsuni]

20. Why does he think the Democratic Party is a "failed ideology" of "liberal elites,"

a party dominated by "wealthy campaign contributors" "what Trump was able to do was pick up on the failures of the Democratic Party" "It wasn't that Donald Trump won the election, it was that the Democratic Party lost the election. We need a Democratic Party that is not a liberal elite but of the working class of this country... ."

He's standing up for something that isn't true. Why?

[dembotoz]

26. He rings true out here.... that's how many see it

[betsuni]

27. Those people are wrong.

[dembotoz]

28. I see else that a possible Dem candidate first stop is wall steetbankers

You prefer this???

[R B Garr]

33. Isn't Wall Street a large employment sector in New York?

I bet not all the employees are corrupt and in need of insulting. Why would a Senator from New York insult his/her constituents?

[dembotoz]

43. in the us vs them world....they are the them out here We don't care about ny

[lapucelle]

59. Who is this "we" that doesn't care about New York? N/T

[dembotoz]

73. the fly over states those who when wells fargo pukes we wipe our heads

[R B Garr]

88. "We" don't care about NY? I bet politicians from New York

have to care, which was pretty much the point.

[dembotoz]

95. Then decide whose side r u on

[R B Garr]

98. A Senator from New York has to pick "sides"??

These anti-Dem talking points get so vacuous it’s hard to take them seriously. The Wall-Street-Bad smear has really run its course and is so inane.

[R B Garr]

243. LOL, calling everyone corrupt doesn't work either. nt

[betsuni]

244. "suckle on bankers"

[Cha]

276. No Dem is doing that.. that's just more

Divisive Insults.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

298. Seriously... that's why I just love the way Elizabeth has come out swinging against the

Wall Street banking industry and its ripoff artists, who need to be heavily regulated with congressional oversight, not courted for big donations and speaking fees.

[ehrnst]

363. Too bad she's being savaged on Twitter and FB by the

bernieorbust hashtag.

Talk about divisiveness.

[George II]

375. I don't know of any candidate who courts bankers for big donations (illegal) or speaking fees.

[Cha]

274. No problem.. I'm on the side of reality.

Not on the side of those who don't deal in it.

[Cha]

250. Oh yes.. the boogieman "wall street".

[ehrnst]

371. You certainly have no faith in Democratic candidates, do you? (nt)

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

40. Ding, ding,ding... indeed, it DOES ring true!!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

41. Ding, ding, ding... indeed, it DOES ring true!!

[lapucelle]

61. Wait...what? It rings true that the Democratic Party is a "failed ideology" of "liberal elites"?

ding, ding, ding indeed.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211627784#post20

[Cha]

75. They have no idea what they're talking about..

that's our Democratic Party that made the Blue Wave Happen across our Nation, so we have a Democratic House Majority NOW.

To Fight Fascism on the Front Lines. Without all those Dems winning across the country Flipping 41 red seats to Blue.. we would really be up Shit Creek now.

Right now we have a chance to get back our Democracy, and those who are saying this crap about our Party are Not part of the solution.

[True Blue American]

92. Amen, Cha!

We do not need backbiters in our Progressive Party.

[c-rational]

120. Agreed.

[Cha]

400. Thanks.

[dembotoz]

194. Wow that's profoundly arrogant

With bold print even...

Lol

[Cha]

195. It's the FACTS.. Deal with it.

[Codeine]

196. You're just mad because it was all spelled

and punctuated properly.

[Cha]

212. lol!

[Cha]

227. You need to look in the mirror..

[Cha]

393. Please tell me why this is so "profoundly arrogant"?

..that's our Democratic Party that made the Blue Wave Happen across our Nation, so we have a Democratic House Majority NOW.

To Fight Fascism on the Front Lines. Without all those Dems winning across the country Flipping 41 red seats to Blue.. we would really be up Shit Creek now.

Right now we have a chance to get back our Democracy, and those who are saying this crap about our Party are Not part of the solution.

Yes, I bolded it. Just really grateful it happened.. Nancy Pelosi and the Democratic party made that happen!

[Adrahil]

150. Well then he can stay out of our party.

Tired as fuck of divisive bullshit while facism creeps over the land. Seriously fuck this anti-democratic party bullshit.

And it infuriates me that BS is protected entity here while he trashes our party.

[LongtimeAZDem]

166. +1 /nt

[dembotoz]

187. So nice someone gave u the power as to who stays and who goes

[Adrahil]

337. Straw man.

I never said he is banned or anything. I cordially invite him to stay away.

We are all such horrible failures, he clearly would be happier somewhere else.

[Cha]

452. Yes, that's a "strawman".

[Cha]

285. It pisses off a lot

of Peeps!

[betsuni]

288. +1

[Historic NY]

305. +1

its also funny when one criticizes BS we get report for TOS. appeasement BULLSHIT

[Eliot Rosewater]

211. Are YOU saying it is true that

Democratic Party is a "failed ideology" of "liberal elites,"

????????????????????

[betsuni]

248. Well, I believe in fairies, so there you go.

[Cha]

395. Well, it's not true.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

36. Yes, supporting progressive Democratic policies is not good enough if your name is Bernie...

he must be dealt with lest it upset the "apple cart" of the appearance of democracy.

[dembotoz]

69. sad isn't it

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

72. Incredibly sad... apparently, the Democratic "big tent" just isn't big enough for Bernie

and his supporters... they treat Bernie worse than most Rethuglicans, even though he caucuses with Democrats and votes for Democratic policies far more often than most Democrats. Sad indeed!!

[Palisade]

214. They fear him and his ideology

Let's see if they turn on Warren too...

[Cha]

239. ...

[treestar]

46. It should not be overdone

in the political arena - you have to compromise to work together as a party. You can't stand up for your beliefs by not voting, for instance. It does not do anything for them. No result and the "standing up" is useless. You have to be able to compromise. That is what living is about, unless you are a hermit.

[dembotoz]

71. compromise is best done when both sides give a bit...i don't see that

spend to much time doing grass rootsy stuff and middle of the road ain't gonna cut it

[Cha]

241. Not voting or voting for jill RF stein

enabled the Russians to get trump rigged in. stein has no principles.. only Lies.

[LongtimeAZDem]

426. Which is what at least one Sanders delegate said she would do at the convention:

Soboroff: "You're faced with a choice, Hillary Clinton versus Donald Trump. What are you going to do?"

Gomez: "Green party, because that is also an option."

Soboroff: "Jill Stein"

Gomez: "That is correct."

MSNBC video at 1:38

[Cha]

428. Yeah, part of the problem.. those

gaslit brainwashed types enabled Russia to destroy our world.

That's how I feel right now

[True Blue American]

111. That would be fine,If

Bernie was really a Democrat. But his opinion of Democratic Elite is not what I see.

I see a party that has stood for the worker since FDR and even LBJ. Those are the Presidents that gave us what we have today. Include BSO, in that by giving us Health Care.

True,died in the wool Democrats.

[Blue_true]

128. NO!!! But there are times when it is prudent to set aside your most cherished wants to gain a

greater good. In 2016 some people did not realize that or ignored it, look at where we are.

Anyone that did not vote, wrote in Bernie or voted third party on November 8 2016 and now loses sleep because of Trump's actions or who rush to street protests is a damned fool that is not worthy of being taken seriously.

[Cha]

238. That's not what this is about.. it's

about being gratuitously divisive and it got him nowhere.

[betsuni]

23. "What this data says is that many Sanders supporters were not voting for him but against Hillary"

Well duh. They voted against fictional propaganda monster Hillary. All over the internet when there was an article about Hillary there were a hundred comments about Satan Hillary and when there was an article about Bernie there were a hundred comments about Satan Hillary. It wasn't about Bernie.

[babylonsister]

24. Wow.

Did you use that same argument when we voted for Obama?

Did everyone have to adore Hillary or be branded a Bernie Bot?

I was entitled to my opinion and you folks make that seem like a crime. I liked Bernie, I voted for him. My thinking at the time was that Hillary was inevitable and that I didn't like. I did wind up casting my vote for her in the general, but you make it seem as if anyone who voted for Bernie was/is a villain. That's just not true.

[betsuni]

25. Oh hey, it's all about me!

"You folks"!

[R B Garr]

31. This article explains that the same "ugly" tactics are being

used on other Dem candidates. So it transcends Hillary and looks like a cynical tactic. It’s also not bad that most people saw this right away.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

38. Excellent points, but, sadly, you're wasting your time, as do I.

You're NEVER going to convince some people... and it's okay to refer to Bernistas/Bernebots... and whatever you do, don't mention PUMAs and... oh, nevermind!

[treestar]

47. Straw man

Who said you had to adore Hillary? The point was different.

[Cha]

50. Really. Thank You, treestar.

I hate it when they do that.

[Kahuna7]

30. I disagree. There remains a staunch cadre of "Berners" to this day whose

only loyalty is to bernie. They could be bots. Many are. But not all. Twitter is rife with Berners, be they bots or not. A twitter search will reveal their prevalence.

[yardwork]

82. Many people were convinced by lies and propaganda.

I look at the faces of the people in the photo in the OP. They were convinced by Russian propaganda that Hillary is a liar and a criminal. Bernie Sanders benefited from this propaganda. He did nothing to correct the lies being promoted by his followers.

[JI7]

176. yeah. but they aren't enough in numbers

just look at how Biden leads and Beto winning the moveon thing. attacks against white men also will not be as effective against a woman.

a lot of his support did depend on demonizing Hillary. but she was going to win so she didn't push back enough and thought it more important to let it go thinking it would help with unity after.

we know this didn't happen and this time around the democrats running will not let it go and they will bring up his record and the tax returns.

those who support him now are mainly the types you describe where it's only about him.

[yardwork]

79. I saw exactly the same thing.

And for those who claim that "berniebros" are a fiction, I know some in real life.

[TCJ70]

109. That kind of thinking is lazy in the context of 2016. When there are only two choices...

...a vote for one is inherently a vote against the other. The same could be said of Hillary supporters. A wider field avoids these lazy critiques with many options.

[Kahuna7]

29. I remember seeing on DU years ago, posters saying Bernie never

wages negative campaigns... If that was true, he certainly learned how to wage a scorched earth campaign in a hurry.

[Martin Eden]

45. You know what that commentary is missing?

Actual quotes from Bernie Sanders to substantiate the argument being made.

[MrsCoffee]

49. Like saying Hillary wasn't qualified to be president?

There are a plethora of quotes out there but we can’t talk about that.



There is pretty much nothing but negativity from Sanders camp directed at really good Democrats. We have some amazing candidates. We don’t need his finger wagging at the wrong people again.

[Martin Eden]

51. I don't see the actual quote in the commentary or your post

The article loses legitimacy without that kind of substantiation to back up the argument being made.

If Bernie actually said that, he was wrong. HRC is among the most qualified candidates of the last half century.

[MrsCoffee]

53. If?

Do you have access to google?

We can’t talk about it here.

[Martin Eden]

56. Apparently you don't

It makes no sense to say we can't talk here about things Bernie said. The entire OP is an attack on Bernie, but actual quotes aren't allowed?

I watched the Dem primary debates and followed the campaign. Seems like a very controversial thing for Bernie to say. It should have garnered considerable attention in the press and among the talking heads, but I don't remember it.

[MrsCoffee]

63. Trust me, I wish we could.

[LongtimeAZDem]

107. "It makes no sense to say we can't talk here about things Bernie said. "

I agree, but that's the way it is until the ToS section "Don't keep fighting the last Democratic presidential primary" is removed.

Until it is, Sanders supporters can have our posts removed and our accounts locked just for bringing it up.

[Mariana]

101. And yet, here you are, talking about it. nt.

[LongtimeAZDem]

102. Right here; the video starts with it:

https://www.cnn.com/2016/04/06/politics/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-qualified/index.html


Note to the moderation staff: this was posted as a response to a direct request for proof, by someone implying that it never happened. It is in no way an attempt to "re-fight the primary".

[Martin Eden]

81. Pretty far from what was claimed ...

... that Bernie said Hillary was not qualified when he agreed she does have the experience and intelligence to be president.

As a voter I did more than question then Senator Clinton's judgment in voting for the IWR that gave GW Bush authority to invade Iraq. Though I did not hesitate to vote for Hillary Clinton in the general election, I have not and never will vote for anyone in a Democratic primary who empowered GW's invasion of Iraq.

Bernie worked as hard as he could to promote a progressive agenda. OMG, the horrors!

[rzemanfl]

110. Bookmarking. n/t

[LongtimeAZDem]

115. "Let me just say in response to Secretary Clinton: I don't believe that she is qualified

if she is, through her super PAC, taking tens of millions of dollars in special interest funds," he said. "I don't think you are qualified if you get $15 million from Wall Street through your super PAC."

Sanders pivoted to her record on foreign policy, saying, "I don't think you are qualified if you have voted for the disastrous war in Iraq. I don't think you are qualified if you've supported virtually every disastrous trade agreement, which has cost us millions of decent-paying jobs. I don't think you are qualified if you supported the Panama free trade agreement, something I very strongly opposed and which, as all of you know, has allowed corporations and wealthy people all over the world to avoid paying their taxes to their countries."

- Senator Sanders, Wednesday, April 6, 2016

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/04/sanders-clinton-not-qualified-to-be-president-221666


Note to the moderation staff: this was posted as a response to a direct request for proof, by someone implying that it never happened. It is in no way an attempt to "re-fight the primary".

[Martin Eden]

123. Thank you. That's what I was asking for.

There's a difference between being qualified and disagreement on the issues.

[Adrahil]

446. It's frustrating that you have to post that disclaimer.

Sanders attacks the Democratic party regularly. He insults it, and by extension, us.

And yet, he is "protected" here. It makes no goddammed sense.

[LongtimeAZDem]

448. +1 /nt

[Hassin Bin Sober]

112. Would you prefer he shut up and finagle himself a Cabinet position? Probably.

[BannonsLiver]

130. You left out the persecution and victim complex a lot of his followers still carry

You can see it up and down this thread.

“Am I not alllowed to like Bernie? Does liking Bernie make me a villain?”

[lunamagica]

140. Now, did any Hillary supporters behave the same way when Obama was nominated?

Did they try to sabotage the convention?

[LongtimeAZDem]

145. Yes, some die-hard PUMAs refused to give up. The difference is that as soon as Clinton lost

the primary vote, she endorsed Obama and worked hard until the convention to convince her supporters to support him:

"The way to continue our fight now, to accomplish the goals for which we stand is to take our energy, our passion, our strength, and do all we can to help elect Barack Obama, the next president of the United States. Today, as I suspend my campaign, I congratulate him on the victory he has won and the extraordinary race he has run. I endorse him and throw my full support behind him. And I ask all of you to join me in working as hard for Barack Obama as you have for me."

- Secretary Hillary Rodham Clinton, June 7, 2008

[George II]

234. Samantha Bee did a 7-minute segment on this back then:

[betsuni]

270. Ugh.

But that was all in our imaginations.

[LongtimeAZDem]

376. "If you're going to protest your perceived disenfranchisement, maybe don't do it by heckling the guy

who wrote the book on protesting actual disenfranchisement".

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

74. Why let the facts get in the way of a good Bernie's bashing?!?!

[yardwork]

84. It's what Bernie didn't do.

Bernie didn't tell his delegates not to boo John Lewis at the DNC. He was asked to stop that disgraceful action and he did nothing.

Bernie didn't tell his supporters to stop repeating blatant lies about Hillary's record.

Look at the photo in the OP. Did Bernie tell his supporters at the DNC not to display signs calling the Democratic nominee a liar? No, he did nothing to stop it.

Etc.

[LongtimeAZDem]

100. Start with this thread:

Bernie Sanders' mass email yesterday: 'If I run' (full text)

It has already started.

[George II]

237. In that email he's bashing "Wall Street Democrats" yet....

....according to his latest Senate Financial Disclosure he has upwards of $1M (roughly half his reported net worth?) invested on Wall Street.

[Renew Deal]

55. Is it a coincidence that his behavior in 2016 was aligned with Russia's strategy?

Both in the primary and the convention?

[Kahuna7]

58. Things that make you go, hmmmm.

[Renew Deal]

68. They fell for Russia's attacks

Many of them willingly.

[Gothmog]

223. Russia and others were supporting sanders

It was not just Russia that was supporting sanders https://medium.com/@blairdurkee/scorched-earth-politics-bernie-sanders-and-the-dishonest-campaign-that-gave-us-trump-eb0bc82ab2c1

As we now know, Sanders’ endeavor to tarnish Clinton’s image among liberal voters had significant help from Russian hackers sowing discord at the Democratic National Convention and social media trolls spreading anti-Clinton memes and fake news stories. Recently, he even admitted to having known the Russians were helping him — and he used it to his advantage anyway. Lesser known by the public, Sanders also received assistance from Republican-affiliated Super PACs and the Republican National Committee itself — who were beside themselves with pleasure that Sanders was doing their dirty work for them. This had been publicly reported as early as May 2015, and again, while he did not ask for their aid, he relished it nonetheless. The combined efforts of Bernie Sanders, Moscow, and the Republican Party succeeded in turning Clinton’s favorable rating upside down.

[yardwork]

85. No coincidence at all. We now have proof.

[melman]

132. You certainly do not have proof

[Cha]

434. It's all around you.

[melman]

437. No

It's actually not.

[Cha]

438. Yes it is.

[melman]

439. Then show it

That's how proof works.

[Cha]

440. It's all over the place.

[melman]

441. Show it

Provide a link to a credible source. Should be very easy if it's all over the place.

[Cha]

442. Just read them

[melman]

443. Read what?

I'd be glad to read something if you'd provide a link. That you have failed to do so really says it all. No proof.

[Cha]

444. they're all over the place.

[melman]

445. So you say

Yet you can't find a single link that supports it. Seems strange.

[Cha]

447. So.. others say it, too.

[melman]

449. But still no link

Seems strange.

[Cha]

450. The title of the OP is a clue.

[R B Garr]

89. Thank you! That Tad Devine/Paul Manafort connection

sure resulted in very similar looking attacks on our nominee.

[Gothmog]

205. It bothers me a great deal that Russia and Putin pushed sanders and helped him

Putin and Russia flooded sites like JPR and other sanders sites with fake news to hurt Clinton https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-fake-news-russia_us_58c34d97e4b0ed71826cdb36

Last June, John Mattes started noticing something coursing like a virus through the Facebook page he helped administer for Bernie Sanders fans in San Diego. People with no apparent ties to California were friending the page and sharing links from unfamiliar sites full of anti-Hillary Clinton propaganda.

The stories they posted weren’t the normal complaints he was used to seeing as the Vermont senator and the former secretary of state fought out the Democratic presidential primary. These stories alleged that Clinton had murdered her political opponents and used body doubles.

Mattes, 66, had been a television reporter and Senate investigator in previous lives. He put his expertise in unmasking fraudsters to work. At first, he suspected that the sites were created by the old Clinton haters from the ‘90s ― what Hillary Clinton had dubbed “the vast right-wing conspiracy.”

But when Mattes started tracking down the sites’ domain registrations, the trail led to Macedonia and Albania. In mid-September, he emailed a few of his private investigator friends with a list of the sites. “Very creepy and i do not think Koch brothers,” he wrote.

At one point, JPR had a half dozen threads on the greatest page of that website pushing the pizzagate story. After being laughed at on DU, the JPR site eventually ban pizzagate stories which were replaced by numerous other stories from Russia including some claiming that Clinton was dying

See also Russia Duped Bernie Fans via Facebook, San Diego Dems Toldhttps://timesofsandiego.com/politics/2017/03/23/russia-duped-bernie-fans-via-facebook-san-diego-dems-told/

Oliver Mitov was dispatched by the Kremlin to get Bernie Sanders fans to vote third-party in the November election, write in the Democratic primary loser for president — or not vote at all.

John Mattes speaks to San Diego Democrats for Equality, the the predominantly gay club in Hillcrest. Photo by Ken Stone
But investigative journalist John Mattes, describing how fake stories on Facebook helped defeat Hillary Clinton, isn’t sure who Mitov is.

“He may be a bot. He may be a person [or four]. He may be living in Macedonia, laughing,” Mattes told a rapt audience of 90 Thursday night in Hillcrest.
But Mitov’s thousands of posts — and similar ones from Albania and elsewhere — duped just enough of the 13 million Sanders supporters to hand the election to Donald Trump and prove Russia could hack American democracy, said the 66-year-old resident of Pacific Beach.
A major Sanders organizer in Southern California himself, Mattes admitted that “we were played.”

Again, Mueller has documented the support that Russia gave to Sanders. I trust Mueller on this.

Again, many voters will want to know why Putin and Russia put some much effort into promoting sanders if sanders runs again. If sanders runs in 2020 he will need to provide a better answer to this question than he has so far

[Cha]

247. Excellent Question!

[uponit7771]

416. +1, my understanding is the Russians were helping him too

[Me.]

60. Hopefully This Time Around

the people in glass houses principle will apply to him. He has a big mess on his own doorstep that he needs to clean up.

[peggysue2]

64. The difference this time?

We've seen this picture show before. The meaty portion of the article is here:

It’s not even the “boy who cried wolf” quality of hearing so many similar denunciations in a row, though it is increasingly tough to take any one hit piece seriously. It’s the implication that these errors are unilaterally disqualifying and should outweigh any good the candidates might do. There is no acknowledgment, after 2016, of just how dangerous that attitude might be or of what other forces might be arrayed against the candidates in question.

It's up to Democrats as individual voters to acknowledge and reject the garbage spewed as critical analysis--the 'scandalous' what you should know about Candidate X. Without thorough and thoughtful research into what is being implied, we can all fall prey to these tactics to diminish, tarnish and wound otherwise good, solid candidates.

We've seen this picture show before. It was a rotten movie on the first round. We cannot afford being fooled once again.

[lark]

94. You had me until you lost me with Gillibrand.

She has torpedoed her own self by proving time after time she's a backstabber whos' into big $$ and herself only. Right now she's romancing Wall St. millionaires to back her, hardly going the Beto route now is she? Where we agree is that Sanders supporters aren't all on our side and Sanders hiding his financials is definitely suspicious. There are too many Russian bots supporting him for me to be comfortable with even a primary vote for him. He's right next to Gillibrand at the end of the list of people I'd vote for in the general. Of course, I'd vote for any Democrat, because my dog would be better than the orange traitor.

[mcar]

96. Institutional sexism will do their work for them

I hate to think this is correct, but I know that it is. We're already seeing the "She's unlikeable!!11" nonsense in the MSM.

[Baltimike]

99. and LOTS of Russian Interlopers. He is part of the left side of the horse shoe

for sure. So is Stein

[CentralMass]

104. Sander's is IMO still immensely popular and if he decides to run and meets the criteria will

be one of the favorites. Sander's represents the best of the democratic ideals that are important to many of us.

Even within our own (vastly superior to the republican party) there is monied influence that does just that. I can recall some bill that was proposed to obtain cheaper prescription drugs from Canada.
The bill, which I think may have veen coauthored by Sanders, had bi-partisan support and it was Democrats that killed it. Cory Booker (a fine politician) voted against it. Booker representing New Jersey and its big pharmaceutical companies took care of his constiutients.
The most influential of which happen to be big pharmaceutical companies. That is how our system works. Yes, our party is better, but it is still influenced by big $$.

When it comes to getting legislation passed in this country. The majority has liitle sway. Studies have shown thst even when the majority of americans favor a bill it will rarely pass unless the elite favor it. Bills that the elite favor pass 50% of the time. Big corporation have major influence followed by special interests groups and then the majority that has next to no influence.

Sanders speaks truth to power.

There are many good candidates out there that i would consider voting in the primary.Biden, Warren, Harris anong others but Sanders still probably tops that list if he makes it into the race as a Democrat.

All of these negative attack posts that you and others constantly post do little to change my opinion and I suspect others who support him. The same was true when Hillary was my primary choice in 2008. This crap just makes people dig in their heels. I can't but help form an opinion of posters attacking a candidate that I like and then start to dislike the candidates that they are pushing.

In the end I will end up voting for our nominee but I still think that Sanders is a good man who still has great popularity.

[TomCADem]

121. Bernie Sanders Declines Democratic Senatorial Nomination (2018)

Bernie Sanders build his brand by attacking and exploiting Democrats. The most recent example is how he runs for the Democratic Senate nomination in Vermont, then declines it upon winning in order to avoid competing against both a Democrat and Republican. By doing so, he gets to promote his image as an outsider, while also avoiding any responsibility to support the election of other Democrats throughout the State.

It is Trump-like in that he happily exploits the party, while also attacking the party without any loyalty or support for the broader movement. Indeed, it is hypocritical, since Bernie talks about building a movement, yet he holds the Democratic party at arms length to preserve his image as an iconoclast who "speaks truth to power." Sadly, this validates a false equivalence among voters that there is no difference between Republicans and Democrats and it also validates those folks who launch attacks on Democratic candidates from the "left" under his banner.

https://www.sevendaysvt.com/OffMessage/archives/2018/08/21/bernie-sanders-declines-democratic-senatorial-nomination

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) has officially turned down the Democratic nomination for the U.S. Senate, according to the Vermont Secretary of State's Office.

Sanders, who took home nearly 91 percent of the vote in last week's Democratic primary, informed the state last Friday that he would decline the nomination, according to elections director Will Senning. Neither the candidate nor the Secretary of State's Office announced the move at the time, though it hardly comes as a surprise.

A longtime independent, Sanders has sought the Democratic nomination since he first ran for the Senate in 2006, in order to prevent another candidate from taking the ballot line. Each time he has declined the nomination upon winning it. His staff made clear from the start of this year's campaign that this time would be no different.

On Tuesday, the Sanders campaign sent a second letter to the Secretary of State’s Office turning down the Vermont Progressive Party’s nomination. While Sanders did not appear on the Progressive primary ballot, he received enough write-in votes — 434 — to win that party’s nomination, too.

[LongtimeAZDem]

127. This underscores the very real possibility that Sanders would reject serving as a Democrat,

regardless of what he might profess in order to gain the nomination.

[Gothmog]

215. The rules have been changed

Under the old rules, there was never a requirement for sanders to join the party https://medium.com/@blairdurkee/scorched-earth-politics-bernie-sanders-and-the-dishonest-campaign-that-gave-us-trump-eb0bc82ab2c1

When rumors of his candidacy began to spread in early 2015, some discussion took place over whether Sanders could even run as a Democrat. As it turned out, there was no rule that required Democratic candidates to be registered with the party. He could run as a Democrat and maintain his affiliation as an Independent at the same time. But it wasn’t the rules that made his decision a curiosity. It was his long and well-documented history of spurning and castigating the Democratic Party. He had run against Democrats in his home state of Vermont and very openly expressed his disgust with the party, going so far as to call it “ideologically bankrupt.” He often affirmed his belief that “you don’t change the system from within the Democratic Party” and, in 1990, even declared that it would be “hypocritical” for him to run as a Democrat based on the things he had said.

The new DNC rules hopefully will fix this issue. The new DNC rule will force sanders to actually join the party and force sanders to campaign as a member of the party

Link to tweet

In addition, new ballot access laws will require sanders to release five or ten years of tax returns. I really doubt that sanders will run in 2020 but if he does he will be grilled in the debates about his actions that were designed to help trump win.

[Codeine]

198. Well,

“I can't but help form an opinion of posters attacking a candidate that I like and then start to dislike the candidates that they are pushing.”

That’s a huge part of the anti-Sanders pushback. His followers were absolutely horrid last go-round, and are ramping up to be even worse this time if early behavior is any indicator.

Nobody was photoshopping feces onto the seat of Bernie's pants in 2016, now were they? That was strictly ‘bro behavior.

Nobody in the Clinton camp was propagating stories about Bernie being a child molester and murderer, now were they? Again, strictly motherfucking ‘bro behavior.

[George II]

257. You probably should review why Booker and other Senators voted against the import...

...of drugs from Canada. Hint, it has to do with the safeguards imposed by the FDA on drugs manufactured in the US vs. the lack of such safeguards in Canada.

Also, the top industry in New Jersey is the pharmaceutical industry. Hundreds of thousands of people, small people who make contributions to New Jersey politicians, work in the pharmaceutical industry. THOSE are his constituents!

If you're concerned about politicians who are "influenced" by money, how do you feel about politicians who accept money from out of their own district or state? Wouldn't you think that a politician who accepts a large % of his/her contributions from outside his/her districe or state would feel more obliged to them than his own constituents?

So, let's compare:

30% of Booker's contributions came from his own constituents in New Jersey
3% of Sanders' contributions came from his own constituents in Vermont - 97% from outside of Vermont!

[betsuni]

267. Taking care of constituents, that's why Bernie Sanders supported a 1.5 trillion weapons program.

Vermont's an aerospace state, it would bring "hundreds of jobs in my city," he said. Luckily, nobody says he's beholden to the Military Industrial Complex or anything like that.

[JCanete]

116. That isn't the reason people are concerned about Beto. You do not see the same things about

Warren, and that's for good reason, and frankly, she's far more likely to be Sanders immediate rival than O'Rourke. Its her and Sanders who are more likely to split votes. People have very reasonable concerns about O'Rourke's previous voting history, and yes, where he takes funding from.

Also, I think its utter bullshit to continue to pretend that when there's big money from an industry that that's just small individual contributions. Those who can afford those bigger contributions can do so because they have money in that industry. So that number absolutely means something. Are those 27 dollar donations? 100 dollar donations? What's the actual breakdown?

[OnDoutside]

154. I'm not sure that's the case, my niece was all for Bernie in 2016, but now thinks Beto is the

new messiah. While Beto might not ultimately get the nomination, I can see him being a spoiler against Sanders and others on the left. The fact that Obama spoke with him about running, is highly significant to me.

[JCanete]

306. that's true Beto could certainly pull some young voters, nor was I suggesting he wouldn't be a

presence in the race. I just think Warren is Sanders more direct competition for preliminary primary votes, since they're more aligned regarding platform. Beto could pull a little from the sanders crowd and also from the main pool of more centrist candidates, yes, but I'd say Warren and Sanders are more likely to split votes between one another than Beto and Sanders...so if we aren't hearing about these "attacks" targeting her, I'd suggest there's a reason other than simply attempting to kneecap anybody else in the race.

[OnDoutside]

335. The both of them are probably eating away at both ends of his potential base, but I agree with you

that Warren is probably the bigger draw from the left.

[Gothmog]

207. Why the Bernie Movement Must Crush Beto O'Rourke

Beto scares sanders supporters and so he must be attacked http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/12/bernie-sanders-beto-orourke-feud-2020-campaign-democratic.html

The rise of Beto O’Rourke poses an obvious threat. The Texas congressman has replicated aspects of Sanders’s appeal — his positivity and refusal to accept PAC money — while exceeding it in some ways. Sanders is charismatic in an unconventional way, the slovenly and cranky but somewhat lovable old uncle, while O’Rourke projects a classic handsome, toothy, Kennedy-esque charm that reliably makes Democrats swoon. Hard-core loyalists find the contrast irksome. “Reading Karl Marx is cool,” said Nomiki Konst, a Sanders loyalist and candidate for New York City public advocate, to NBC. “Doing a livestream while you’re doing your laundry is a gimmick.” The comment sums up the left’s well-grounded fear that Sanders’s hard-core ideological appeal can be easily disarmed with personal charisma.

And while O’Rourke has yet to decide on a presidential campaign, and would have to overcome an enormous field if he does, the Sandernistas are hardly paranoid to discern the kind of groundswell that could quickly propel O’Rourke to the front of the pack. Former Obama strategist and current Pod Save America host Dan Pfeiffer wrote a piece urging O’Rourke to run (without endorsing him). O’Rourke reportedly met with Obama, who favored him with public praise. “What I liked most about his race was that it didn’t feel constantly poll-tested,” Obama said. “It felt as if he based his statements and his positions on what he believed.”

What Obama is describing here is O’Rourke’s ability to speak naturally and with apparent conviction — one never knows if a politician is expressing genuine conviction or just performing it well — without taking hard-left policy stances. O’Rourke’s short career has allowed him to avoid being pinned down on every item in the party platform. He generally occupies the center of the Democratic Party, and often expresses broad sympathy for left-wing policy goals while suggesting he favors a more pragmatic alternative. On health care, he advocates “achieving universal health care coverage — whether it be through a single-payer system, a dual system, or otherwise — so that we can ensure everyone is able to see a provider when it will do the most good and will deliver health care in the most affordable, effective way possible.”

One of the deeper strategic goals of the left is to equate progressive maximalism with authenticity, like Sanders did. They want candidates who take uncompromising left-wing positions to be seen as authentic, and candidates who adopt more moderate lines to be seen as calculating and phony. The socialist left will attack any non-Sanders candidate, but O’Rourke is especially dangerous to their project precisely because of his Obama-like personal appeal.

[jalan48]

122. Wow, another article trashing Bernie. His populist rhetoric must be scaring some powerful interests.

[BannonsLiver]

134. August 2015 called and it wants its talking point back

[jalan48]

136. Corpos rule!

[R B Garr]

139. lOL k0rPORaTi0nS...the answer to everything. nt

[jalan48]

141. "Corporations are people too my friend"-Mitt Romney.

[R B Garr]

149. Mitt Romney is a Republican. You were insinuating

something about corporations to another poster here.

[jalan48]

202. Insinuating? Not at all. I think the current corporate state is a big fucking problem.

Last edited Sat Jan 5, 2019, 08:47 PM - Edit history (1)

Changing the public faces of the corporations won't change the set-up.

[R B Garr]

242. Anything "corporations" is also used as an insult to

fellow Democrats, implying that they are corrupt sellouts, not cool, non-progressive, third way — whatever else. We know where that insult started.

[jalan48]

249. I'm talking about the actual people running the corporations. I assume most of them are Republicans

because Republicans' have long been the party of business. They like to sell themselves as 'mom and pop' kinda folks to their constituents but the money to get them elected comes from the big boys and girls. Taking on the power structure was bound to make Bernie lots of enemies on both sides. I like AOC a lot and would hate to see her start getting the same treatment.

[R B Garr]

252. You were responding to post 134. It was about an old

talking point. I can’t figure out the need to deny what is already in a thread.

[jalan48]

254. My bad. Corpos are ubiquitous and their influence on our political process is the same.

[R B Garr]

255. It's also an insult to fellow Democrats, hence my comment that

just typing corporations is the answer to everything. I agree with post 134—August 2015 wants its talking point back.

[jalan48]

259. Yes, maybe Corporate State Representatives would be less offensive

[R B Garr]

269. Trying to insult people about corporations is a worn out

tactic.

[jalan48]

273. It's not an insult, we live in a Corporate State.

[R B Garr]

277. We know where the insult originated and how it is an

insult to fellow Democrats for the reasons already covered in previous posts. No reason to deny what we already know about the use of the term and what it is supposed to invoke.

We know where the insult started and who it originated with. You responded to post 134 that talked about August 2015. We know what was going on then and why Democrats were being insulted.

[George II]

284. Do you know of any non-dictatorship that isn't a "corporate state"?

[jalan48]

286. Not that I know of. There are differences in regulations on corporations within the system I believe

[George II]

292. So, apparently you're not happy with "corporate states". In that case....

....unless you like dictatorships you wouldn't be happy with any country on earth?

[jalan48]

293. Climate Change. I don't think our current Corporate State is capable of

dealing with this enormous problem. We're running out of time and a profit oriented economic system isn't the answer IMHO.
Also, not all corporate states are alike. Some have higher taxes and regulate corporations more than the US.

[Renew Deal]

151. The article doesn't trash Bernie

His behavior does

[jalan48]

203. Daily threads trashing Bernie and Progressives. Corporate Bots?

[betsuni]

206. We corporate bots are paid by David Brock, too, don't forget, besides all the corporations and

Wall Street. Every morning we get an email from David detailing what Hillary Clinton wants us to say. The status quo money is POURING in, all for supporting Democrats on DU! I haven't had to go outside for three years!

[Cha]

409. "trashing" BS.. I call it shining the Light on what happened..

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211631205

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211627784

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211621545

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211605988

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211596704

[Palisade]

218. Scaring the hell out of them, indeed

Only a matter of time until they turn on AOC too. In fact I already see it happening around here.

[jalan48]

220. The non-stop assault on Bernie and Progressives in the media is a little too obvious.

The corpos need to dial it back a bit to make it more believable.

[ehrnst]

328. "The corpos?" Who are you talking about? (nt)

[ehrnst]

366. No answer?

[jalan48]

384. Keep Reading

[ehrnst]

407. So, no answer.

Not surprised.

You are afraid of something happening if you actually followed through with the insinuation, yes?

[mojowork_n]

124. The only accurate item in this whole article is...

that Amy Klobuchar should have been responsible for the "hot dish." That’s what Minnesotans call a casserole. Otherwise, it's all one heaping shovel full after another.

[karynnj]

129. This is not just the Sanders' supporters

There are toxic people who are attempting to take down ALL the candidates or all the candidates who are not the one(s) they are supporting. There are others that want only unrealistically "pure" candidates. Here, I don't think that Sirota, who I heard speak at the 2007 Take Back America, is acting as a "Sanders advocate". This is pure Sirota. (Pre 2008, he had "issues" with Obama's progressivity, HRC was out of the question. John Edwards was pure! )

Sirota has done the same thing on contributions since the GWB era -- and has been called on it. Open Secrets and other sources use the required field on employer to produce those numbers. Because, by and large, Republicans don't care, this has been something used against any Democrat who runs a race. Even if they limited contributions to say $25 or $50, something no candidate has done, they would STILL have some "corporate interest" they are accused of having accepted money from. It also means that ANY Democrat Senator who has been a candidate for President, who was even close to viable, they would end up at the top of the list of Senators accepting these funds.

Sirota has to be smart enough to know this. Yet he continues to use this. Like you, I have not bought into Betomania, because I know more about his punk band/skateboarding and his commendable speech on football players kneeling than I do on anything he did as a Congressman.

Given Sirota's claim, I looked to see what he said on climate change/energy. A quick google, found a Betamaniac article in New Republic - https://newrepublic.com/minutes/151766/beto-orourke-shows-democrats-talk-climate-change , that effusively praised him as teaching Democrats how to speak on this. Yet what she described was essentially how John Kerry spoke of clean energy at every rally in 2004 (and since). https://newrepublic.com/minutes/151766/beto-orourke-shows-democrats-talk-climate-change

A youtube showed nothing that Gore and Kerry have not said a million times -- and he used one of the global examples used by them for at least 5 years and then localized it by speaking of hurricane Harvey. Another similarity is that he did speak of how Texas is leading on clean energy. The one thing he doesn't do is explicitly say that fossil fuels must be drasticly reduced. However, he does NOT try to speak of making fossil fuels "clean" - other than speaking of sequestation, which - if it worked - would help as we transition. Here's the link:

I have been concerned about climate change since the 1990s. Given what I saw, I would neither support or reject Beto as a primary nominee. That he echoes both Kerry and Gore - favoring Kerry's framing more than Gore's - is not a negative. Unless this small sample is not representative, on the issue that "fossil fuel money" would most impact, he does not seem out of line.

I have no idea what the solution is to spurious attacks that one industry or another has "bought" a candidate other than to look at whether past votes, actions or positions seem to show that the candidate is alligned with that industry. Even then, it is wrong to speak of "having been bought". I think people in an industry might logically choose the people most facorable to them ... just as people belonging to the Sierra Club, Grist, and conservation groups will pick people who are on their side. By making it about issues, not motivation, you can make supporting an industry in a way that you disagree with a problem, but with the character assassination of calling them "bought by".

[earthshine]

133. I support Bernie. Perhaps, after the debates, I'll choose someone else, but as of now ... nt

[David__77]

152. I was happy to vote for Bernie Sanders before, and may be happy to do so again.

I totally understand your position!

[aikoaiko]

137. This writer lives in a weird alternative universe.

How is Bernie responsible for Siroto’s poorly contextualized reporting? He isn’t.

Bernie supporters going after Gilibrand? Bernie supporters were the least involved after the Franken debacle. She made her own enemies across several fronts.

I won’t get into 2016 but I would call his campaign style “scorched earth” any more than others.

[TomCADem]

153. Bernie: Why should we work within the Democratic Party if we don't agree with anything the Dems say

The recent efforts to savage Democrats by Bernie's supporters both foreign and domestic do not come out of the blue. This is his MO, and we need to call him and his supporters on it. With Bernie being the front runner going into 2020, he could be far more destructive as he and his supporters try to lay waste on Democrats from the "left." Think of Jill Stein as a front runner attacking Democrats and Republicans alike, and you have Bernie Sanders.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/08/bernie-sanders-2016-democrats-121181

You don’t change the system from within the Democratic Party.”

“My own feeling is that the Democratic Party is ideologically bankrupt.”

“We have to ask ourselves, ‘Why should we work within the Democratic Party if we don’t agree with anything the Democratic Party says?’”

Bernie Sanders, everybody—the same Bernie Sanders who is running to become the Democratic Party’s candidate for president of the United States.

[aikoaiko]

177. Bernie and supporters are not savaging Democrats

That’s just Politico manufacturing clicks.

I just don’t see it.

ETA: Let me add, I’m totally fine with Bernie trying to change the Democratic Party. And I think there are those within Democratic Party leadership who agree. They didn’t have to bring him into the leadership team, they could public denounce him, they could say Bernie is a danger to the party, but they don’t. Think about that.

[TomCADem]

210. Fake News? Those Are Bernie's Quotes...

...and they are not isolated. Finally, the simple fact is that takes advantage of Democrats by running for their nomination to clear the field, but then turns his back on the people who nominated him.

I think that is wrong. If you accept the benefit, accept the responsibility.

[Power 2 the People]

155. Saturday's bullshit story.

Quota met.

[OnDoutside]

156. Does anyone know if Democratic primaries will require candidates to release their full

Tax returns ?

[ProgLibDem]

157. All this constant hate on Senator Sanders is actually hurting the Democratic Party...

Millions and millions and millions of people support Senator Sanders. He filled stadium after stadium with thousands of people. A majority of all Americans agree and support the policy positions and ideas of Senator Sanders. His policies, that are supported by many Democrats some of who are running for president, are exactly what America needs to get out of this republican disaster they have caused.

This hit piece is from Medium - a site where anybody can join and submit articles. We don't know the author and what her motivations are or why. She just joined Medium this month. Remember that there are Russian trolls everywhere and republicans who do everything possible to split the Dem party. Articles and the posts of some here are doing exactly what the Russians and the republicans want.

Senator Sanders is not the enemy of the Dem party or America. He is an ally supporting and proving everyday his belief and policies align with the Dem party. His issues and policies are supported by millions of Dems and actually make its way into the Dem platform.

This constant hate is causing an unneeded division in the Dem party and is sowing resentment. As I said, this is exactly what the Russians and republicans want.

Criticism of Sanders, Democrats, and the Dem policies is welcomed and is what make us better. It is a good thing.

Stop this hate. It would be better if we direct our energies to electing Democrats and the Democratic message.

Stop this hate. Stop hurting the Democratic Party.

[TomCADem]

158. NBC:Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks

Bernie Sanders is not a Democrat and he has made a career of attacking Democrats from the "left" even as he runs in their primaries and caucuses with them. Bernie has repeatedly bashed Democrats, and it is a mistake not to hold him accountable. 2016 shows how his attacks on Democrats not only hurt Hillary Clinton, but hurt the entire Democratic party.

If you think that Medium is fake news, how about NBC News:

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/bernie-sanders-fans-can-t-be-allowed-poison-another-democratic-ncna953976

Democrats should greet this early maneuvering by Sanders' supporters with alarm. If Democrats cannot show such tactics — which will be used against any non-Sanders candidate, because no one can get to the left of a socialist — for what they are, they ignore them at their own peril.

Failing to end this internecine warfare will mean that all members of the Democratic Party running for its presidential nomination will face months of minuscule ideological litmus tests turned into character assassinations. The narrative, driven by the far left and lapped up by the press, will likely result in a nomination fight that could well devolve into the kind of pointless factionalism that will only help Republicans.

We've seen this movie before: Sanders' assault on Clinton's progressive credentials were pernicious in large part because they were not about policy disputes at all, but rather intended to falsely impugn Hillary's character and integrity.

The atmosphere online was even more toxic: Pro-Bernie message boards lit up with a montage of Hillary hate. Here, Hillary was a "corporate whore," a likely criminal in the email case and the cheating mastermind of a rigged primary.

[ProgLibDem]

160. Your post demonstrates my point...unfortunately

[TomCADem]

162. I Am Glad We Agree.

What is difficult is when alleged Bernie supporters ignore Bernie's own statements and actions attacking Democrats en mass. They try to contextualize or justify his statements the way Trump supporters do. It is nice to have some common ground, rather than having a discussion with someone who insists that Bernie has not built his political career on framing himself as an iconoclast and outsider by attacking both Republicans and Democrats and pushing false equivalency with rhetoric similar to that raised by Trump.

This time around, Bernie is not going to start as a "fringe" candidate. Thus, the damage of his attacks on Democrats generally can be extremely harmful and perhaps even more so than in 2016.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

165. Lol. David Fucking Brock?

I’ll take civility advice from that rat fucker when pigs fly the space shuttle.



I guess Bernie told him to get stuffed. And rightfully so.

Jesus Christ. Talk about attacking Democrats. This jagoff teamed up with Ann Fucking Coulter to relentlessly attack the Clintons in the 90s. He called Anita Hill “a little bit nutty and a little bit slutty”


He apologized to Bernie and his supporters. That apparently didn’t draw water to his own mill so he’s back at it again.

Fuck that sleaze bag.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/01/10/clinton-warrior-david-brock-offers-an-apology-and-his-allegiance-to-bernie-sanders/?utm_term=.75b84a4e5b86

Clinton warrior David Brock offers an apology — and his allegiance — to Bernie Sanders

David Brock is sorry. The founder of Media Matters and a pair of pro-Clinton super PACs battled hard — really hard — against Sen. Bernie Sanders during the Democratic presidential primary. Now he wants to be Sanders's ally.

“I'm with you in the fight ahead,” Brock wrote Tuesday in an open letter to Sanders (I-Vt.), posted on Medium.

“At times during the Democratic primary, I was criticized for being too aggressive in my support for Secretary Clinton  — and rightly so,” Brock added. “Looking back, I recognize that there were a few moments when my drive to put Hillary in the White House led me to take too stiff a jab. I own up to that, I regret it, and I apologize to you and your supporters for it.”

Seriously. This David Brock? This guy?

[Cha]

453. Yes, we all know David Brock's past.. and

how he changed his rw ways.

[Cha]

454. Your Brock is a "boogieman" is NOT Working.

[Quixote1818]

167. You do realize Elizabeth Warren said a lot of the same things Sanders supporters said

Why is Elizabeth Warren always left out of these discussions? Maybe because they can't use the "Bernie Bros" Sanders supporters are sexist angle?

&t=10s

[TomCADem]

208. Elizabeth Runs as a Democrat. She is part of a movement

Bernie is his own movement who cherry picks only to benefit himself as his most recent decision to run for, then reject the Democratic nomination for Senate demonstrates.

I do not mind disagreements. What I don’t agree with is trying to lump Democrats with Republicans.

[Quixote1818]

261. Well, she sure seems to get along with him.

I'm a Democrat too and have no problem with him keeping everyone honest. To be honest, outside the 20 people on DU obsessed with him, every Democrat I know really likes him.

Was it when he said "Who cares about her dam emails." Or when he endorsed Hillary and campaigned for her that was so upsetting?

I'm also just curious as to why Warren can have these criticisms but he can't?

[Cha]

271. BS' Divisiveness is what keeps getting him on

DU.. and, of course, the latest revelations now. And, it's not just DU members who don't like BS's Divisiveness. I see it all over Twitter, too.

Elizabeth Warren is being inclusive in her exploratory run for POTUS. She talks about POC having a much harder struggle, and she has a spot with President Obama in her Vid. She's not running from him. I think she's learned her lesson on that.. we'll see.

And, none of the Dems I know in RL like him.

[Quixote1818]

275. I have generally stayed out of all these Sanders attack threads

I would have been wise to steer clear of this thread. We can agree to disagree, as the only attacking and divisiveness I see are threads like this that keep this stupid feude alive. Sure would be great if everyone could just mellow out and get along because we are all on the same side.

Out of curiosity what has Sanders done lately that has the 10 of you so riled up?

[Cha]

278. Why don't you just read the

the posts then maybe you can get a clue.

[ehrnst]

325. Yeah, just mellowing out because we are on the same side is something that someone

should tell those who think that any criticism or disagreement with Sanders = "divisiveness" or "obsession," or "attacks," or "evidence of corruption."

It might be wise for one to steer clear of any threads that bring that out in one, and gets one "riled up" no matter how calm and condescending one manages to sound, because one still radiates those things nonetheless.

The fish aren't biting today.

[ehrnst]

326. I'm sure that all those attacks on Warren on Twitter and FB with the hashtag

Bernieorbust2020 are just a joke. Not riled up at all.

[emulatorloo]

213. Elizabeth Warren is the real deal. Besides that, never known her to run a scorched-earth campaign

against a fellow Democrat.

Sen. Elizabeth Warren's debut trip to Iowa ignites voter passion
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211628898

[Quixote1818]

272. Warren is my top pick right now

Precisely because she and Sanders are so much alike and because like Sanders she uses her clout to push the Democratic party back to its roots and fights the power brokers. A better set of terms than scorched earth is standing up for what you believe in.

[emulatorloo]

280. Scorched earth has a specific meaning. It doesn't mean "standing up for what you believe in"

Warren is high on my list as well. I supported Bernie in 2016. I personally find her head and shoulders above Bernie as a potential President. She brings more to the table IMHO. Of course your may have a different view. But here’s to an exciting primary season, debates will be great.

[Cha]

282. Right, that's ridiculous to equate "Scorched Earth"

with standing up for what you believe in.

[emulatorloo]

308. Oh I assume poster just wasn't aware of the definition of scorched earth

[Cha]

435. Elizabeth Warren is inclusive.. she

said POC have a much harder struggle and she had a spot With President Obama in her vid. She didn't run from him.

[Cha]

279. Yeah, that's the huge difference between her and BS.

[Cha]

192. The title of your OP says it all.

[Cha]

169. No, BS going on CNN on Nov 16, 2016 After trump

was Rigged in.. calling our Democratic Party "the party of the elite" is Divisive.

he's still being Divisive in a "mass email" posted here on DU by one of his supporters that calls the Democratic party the "financial elite".

Last time we ran, we made the financial elite pay a price for their attacks on our progressive agenda. It is just as important we do it again today:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211597935#top

[ProgLibDem]

171. Wrong. Sanders did not call the dem Party the financial elite in his email.

Third Way Democrats ran an ad against Sanders saying bad things against Medicare for All and others.
He called THEM the financial elite and I totally agree with him on that.

I have a problem with ANY fellow Dem who says or suggests Medicare for All is wrong. I will only support
Progressive Liberal Dems and Sanders in the Primaries.

As I said, this hate has to stop. You don't like Sander - DONT VOTE FOR HIM.

The only divisiveness is coming from the haters...

[Cha]

172. Don't try to rewrite history with me.. BS went on CNN

Nov 16, 2016 and called my Democratic Party "the party of the elite" and making it all about himself.

Always throwing disingenuous insults at the Democratic party.

[ProgLibDem]

173. I couldn't find a CNN video on Sanders saying that...

Only a partial cut-up video on CNN that does not say that.

Do you have a link? I would like see the context and actual statements. I only go on facts...

[Cha]

174. It's a fact. BS is too Divisive.

[melman]

175. Let's see a link then

You made a claim. Back it up.

[LongtimeAZDem]

179. "Bernie Sanders tells California audience that Democrats 'cannot be the party of the liberal elite'"

http://www.latimes.com/politics/essential/la-pol-ca-essential-politics-updates-in-post-election-appearance-in-1480489042-htmlstory.html

[melman]

180. That wasn't the claim

The claim made by the poster was that...

"BS went on CNN Nov 16, 2016 and called my Democratic Party "the party of the elite" and making it all about himself"


That link does not show him saying that, is not from CNN and not from November 16, 2016.

[Cha]

181. It's been posted many times.. look it up yourself

if you don't believe it.

[melman]

183. No

You made the claim it's up to you to prove it.

[Cha]

184. Haha.. i just found it by Googling..

I'm not doing your work for you.

[melman]

186. My work?

It's hardly my work if I'm not the one who made the claim. You made the claim and it's up to you to back it up.

[Cha]

188. ...

[melman]

193. Okay

We agree then. There is no link because it never happened. Thanks!

[Cha]

197. We wish BS would have never gone on tv

after the GE when trump was rigged in, and called My Democratic Party the "party of the "liberal elite" and made it all about himself.. how he "was humiliated".. when he had no clue what he was talking about.

It was divisive.

[George II]

219. It happened, more than once, during his November 2016 book tour.

[melman]

222. Let's see a link then

[ucrdem]

228. link, 11/13/16, Sanders: Trump Won Because Democrats Focused Too Much On Wealthy "Liberal Elite"

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/11/13/sanders_trump_won_because_democrats_focused_too_much_on_wealthy_liberal_elite.html

You're welcome!

Note to jury: this link was requested by another DUer.

[melman]

231. Sorry

That does not match the original claim. Still no link.

[Cha]

258. You're Good, ucr.. this was After the GE!

Thanks for the link..

Sanders: Trump Won Because Democrats Focused Too Much On Wealthy "Liberal Elite"

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/11/13/sanders_trump_won_because_democrats_focused_too_much_on_wealthy_liberal_elite.html

Isn't that a load of divisive bull.

This time it was on Face the Nation..

Sen. Bernie Sanders says the Democrats lost the 2016 election because they ignored working class and low-income voters in favor of wealthy "liberal elites."

[ucrdem]

295. It's worse than I remembered.

[Cha]

296. I know.. thanks to you

all for jumping in with the links.. I have new material to add to my repertoire of BS' Divisiveness.

I had no idea about the Face the Nation interview.

[George II]

263. That's just one of several, maybe even many.

[ucrdem]

294. Yes he seemed anxious to get his side of the story out first. nt

[betsuni]

229. November 14, 2016: "It is not good enough to have a liberal elite. I come from the white working

class, and I am deeply humiliated that the Democratic Party cannot talk to whee I came from." CNN

[melman]

230. That's not a link

[betsuni]

232. Here:

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/11/14/politics/bernie-sanders-humiliated-democrats-loss-working-class-voters

[melman]

233. Sorry

That does not match the original claim. Still no link.

[betsuni]

235. What was the original claim you're looking for?

Which post.

[ucrdem]

240. Crickets.

[betsuni]

245. That was weird.

I find myself saying "that was weird" and "ridiculous" a lot these days.

[ucrdem]

246. Really weird. nt

[Cha]

251. I posted this.. got the date off by 2 days I see..

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=11630132

And, this one..

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=11630664

Thanks for providing the link, betsuni.. I knew it wouldn't make a difference. They want to keep denying it ever happened even though it bloody well did.

[betsuni]

253. I don't even know what kind of logical fallacy that falls under.

Being off by two days about when an interview was means it never happened or it's fake news? Never seen THAT before.

Maybe they should stick to the Shoot the Messenger style and call CNN corporate-owned and therefore fake news.

[Cha]

256. That's BS' face talking on CNN with Wolf

They should take it up with BS if they don't like that he was being divisive right after the rigging in of trump..

BS is the messenger..

Also saying..

Bernie Sanders says he will work with Donald Trump

"I think that there needs to be a profound change in the way the Democratic Party does business," Sanders said. "It is not good enough to have a liberal elite. I come from the white working class, and I am deeply humiliated that the Democratic Party cannot talk to where I came from."

https://www.cnn.com/2016/11/14/politics/bernie-sanders-humiliated-democrats-loss-working-class-voters/index.html

[Cha]

260. And, he did on Face the Nation, too..

Sanders: Trump Won Because Democrats Focused Too Much On Wealthy "Liberal Elite"

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/11/13/sanders_trump_won_because_democrats_focused_too_much_on_wealthy_liberal_elite.html

Isn't that a load of divisive bull.

This time it was on Face the Nation..

Sen. Bernie Sanders says the Democrats lost the 2016 election because they ignored working class and low-income voters in favor of wealthy "liberal elites."

Thanks to ucr for providing the link..

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=11630864

[melman]

266. Why are you asking me?

It's quite easy to follow the string of posts.

[betsuni]

281. Oh, melman. Bernie has called Democrats elites so many times, what different does it make

on which date he did and whether it was:

"Over the last thirty or forty years the Democratic Party has transformed itself from the party of the working class ... to a party significantly controlled by a liberal elite which has moved very far away form the needs of ... working families in this country."

"The Democratic Party had been dominated by wealthy campaign contributors. They gotta open the door to people who work with their hands, people who take showers at the end of the day, not the beginning."

"And what we're trying to do is reform the Democratic Party, make it a party of working people ... ."

"We need a Democratic Party that is not a liberal elite but of the working class of this country... ."

Can't chat with you right now, I'm making soup.

[George II]

334. Anyone who can't easily find these, and many more, hasn't really been looking.

[ProgLibDem]

178. No link? No Proof? But it's a fact????????????

[Cha]

182. It's not my problem you can't find it.

[George II]

262. Yep.

[Cha]

396. No, the "divisiveness" is coming from BS like

when he was on Face the Nation right after the "election". This was untrue..

Sanders: Trump Won Because Democrats Focused Too Much On Wealthy "Liberal Elite"

Sen. Bernie Sanders says the Democrats lost the 2016 election because they ignored working class and low-income voters in favor of wealthy "liberal elites."

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/11/13/sanders_trump_won_because_democrats_focused_too_much_on_wealthy_liberal_elite.html

[Cha]

413. yeah, you sure use the word "hate" a lot instead of

actually explaining why BS thinks it's ok to always insult the Dem party.

This is from June 2017..

Bernie Sanders lambasts 'absolute failure' of Democratic party's strategy

But the Vermont senator said that establishment Democrats were standing in the way of further progress.

There he goes again using that stale word "establishment" when he's been in D.C for how many years?

Against that backdrop, Sanders’s criticism of the Democratic party as out-of-touch and elitist appeared to ring true for activists at the summit, including those who are planning to run for office for the first time in the coming months.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/11/bernie-sanders-lambasts-absolute-failure-of-democratic-partys-strategy

Boy, did the Gigantic Blue Wave that engulfed the Nation prove BS Wrong. There were Dems across the spectrum who ran on Health Care.. they're Not "out of touch" like BS likes to say.

[Gothmog]

224. I am still angry over that e-mail

[Cha]

236. Yeah, That Divisive email..

Bashing the Dem party.

[Owl]

373. Exactly. Well said ProgLibDem.

[George II]

401. ....

[Cha]

397. Millions and Millions of People do Not support BS.

Keep in mind the title of the OP.. there's your answer.

[Jarqui]

283. I don't agree with all of the article

I don't care to debate 2016 again.
What happened inside the DNC bothered me a lot.

I liked a number of Sanders progressive policies in 2016.
I've always liked Joe Biden.

I do not think Sanders is going to be a big factor this time around. Biden might be.

I prefer new leadership because the country wants change.
We seem fortunate to have a number of good candidates.
I don't know who my favorite is yet.

Like we saw in 2008 and 2016, it is probably going to get heated ...

[Cha]

287. This article totally resonates with those

who went through it, and saw with their own eyes, and heard with their ears what actually happened.

I'm just grateful it's finally out in the open.

[YOHABLO]

303. And so the division begins and it's not even 2020 yet. Beware folks, it's all part of the plan.

Come together, right now.

[Cha]

312. It started a long time ago with

the person this OP is about

[LongtimeAZDem]

367. +1 /nt

[NinaNeon]

322. The ugly campaigning is far from exclusive to Sanders

Comments like "basement dwellers" and "deplorables" also alienate your base.
Laying the blame solely at his feet for essentially doing Op research for the GOP, is not fair or accurate.
Alex Jones and FOX did the most damage to the Democratic campaign.
I do agree that it is confusing why Bernie Sanders seems to be presented as a Democrat.
I thought he became an Independent after he lost the primary.
He seems to have no issue getting $27 donations, and shouldn't need DNC money to run anyway, if he so chooses.
It confuses people about what the Democratic platform really is.

[Cha]

386. Nobody is saying it was only him.

[LongtimeAZDem]

365. Some things bring it out of us

[Gothmog]

388. I was a delegate to the national convention

These were not isolated incidents. In the real world, delegates to a national convention are supposed to be vetted. I know that I was vetted and I help vet some other delegates. One of the reason for this is that a candidates delegates represent the candidate.

I do not mind being yelled at. Yelling at lawyers is a waste of time. I do mind a group of sanders delegates yelling at my daughter who was my guest. These sanders delegates wanted her to try to convince me to change my vote and called the c-word when she refused.

Why is it okay for sanders supporters to hate Congressman John Lewis? Congressman John Lewis is a national treasure.

I saw some really poor behaior at the national convention by vetted sanders delegates who were supposed to represent the values of his campaign.

[True Blue American]

391. Not isolated either.

[Cha]

399. lol.. your denial of the facts on the ground is

astounding. The OP title is Not made up out of thin air.. it's reality.

[Kahuna7]

380. + 1000

[Gothmog]

377. Have you vistied JPR?

That is a site full of hate. These posters applauded the booing of Congressman John Lewis https://www.democraticunderground.com/10028476265 and https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8483575

[Cha]

385. Look really closely at the title of this OP..

And, let it sink in.

[Gothmog]

370. Bernie Sanders has a problem

Sanders will be vetted this time around and will not be able to get by with as much https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/03/politics/bernie-sanders-sexism-2020/index.html?utm_content=2019-01-06T13%3A22%3A02&utm_source=twCNNp&utm_term=image&utm_medium=social

The larger point here is that Sanders got away with lots of flubs and gaffes -- like this one -- during the course of the 2016 campaign against Hillary Clinton because a) no one believed, particularly in the early days of the race, that he had any real chance and b) she simply never really went after him.

Sanders has spent decades in the House and Senate. Clinton barely mentioned the thousands of votes he took -- she did spend some time on his votes in support of gun rights -- largely because she was afraid of pissing off liberals who were already skeptical of her.

That won't be the case when (I mean, if) Sanders runs for president this time. He won't be a plucky outsider charging at a windmill. He will be one of the best-known candidates, someone others are looking to knock down a peg to bump up their own chances.

Sanders' steadfast support among liberals may withstand that scrutiny. But that scrutiny is coming in ways that the Vermont independent has never seen before.

[Magoo48]

378. Note to Bernie haters: your redundancy is gettin' old. Time to let that shit go.

[Cha]

383. Note to Magoo.. BS' redunancy of attacking the Dem

Party since after the 2016 GE is getting beyond old. Time to let it go.

[Magoo48]

404. Are any of Bernie's criticisms of the party valid?

[Cha]

405. No.

[ucrdem]

414. +1

Absolutely correct. They are a strange but predictable mix of old slogans, talking points du jour and self-flattering wishful thinking. He had the same criticisms for the Obama TARP and TPP that he had for Clinton's NAFTA and other trade deals. Never mind that TARP was a wild success and saved the economy or that the loans were repaid with interest. Nope, it was a giveaway to Wall Street picking the pockets of main street, yadda yadda. I heard it a lot but it showed no interest in the actual details of the agreement.

[Cha]

419. I found another "link" today..

Bernie Sanders lambasts 'absolute failure' of Democratic party's strategy

But the Vermont senator said that establishment Democrats were standing in the way of further progress.

There he goes again using that stale word "establishment" when he's been in D.C for how many years?

Against that backdrop, Sanders’s criticism of the Democratic party as out-of-touch and elitist appeared to ring true for activists at the summit, including those who are planning to run for office for the first time in the coming months.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/11/bernie-sanders-lambasts-absolute-failure-of-democratic-partys-strategy

Boy, did the Gigantic Blue Wave that engulfed the Nation prove BS Wrong. There were Dems across the spectrum who ran on Health Care.. they're Not "out of touch" like BS likes to say.

Mahalo! Happy Blue Year to us! ucr!

[uponit7771]

417. Not at all, not coming from his context ... Hell naw

[betsuni]

421. His criticisms are based on the idea that the Democratic Party does not care about

the working/middle classes and does not want campaign finance reform and higher taxes on the wealthy, do not think access to health care, education and living wages are rights.

He says he wants to "reform the Democratic Party, make it a party of working people, make it a party of young people. And I'm very proud of the success that we've had in recent years in raising the minimum wage to 15 bucks an hour, making public colleges and universities tuition free, demanding the wealthy start paying their fair share of taxes. Those ideas ... which two years ago seem to be radical ideas are now kind of mainstream ideas supported by a pretty strong majority of the American people."

The ideas were only radical to Republicans. Dingell/Kennedy Medicare for All Act, 2007. Seattle approved a 15 dollar minimum wage in 2014, L.A. in 2015. Who raises taxes and wants more regulations and environmental protection? Democrats. Blue states pass progressive legislature when they have power. Republicans have made their lives about preventing this by any means. Blaming Democrats for what Republicans do only helps the Right.

[Gothmog]

423. Scorched-Earth Politics

Here is another good article https://medium.com/@blairdurkee/scorched-earth-politics-bernie-sanders-and-the-dishonest-campaign-that-gave-us-trump-eb0bc82ab2c1

As is common with anti-establishment candidates, a significant number of Sanders’ staff and supporters were zealous adherents, devout in their servitude to the candidate and passionate in their evangelism of his message. Many were hyperactive online, on social media sites like Twitter, Facebook, and Reddit, assembling their own communities and subcultures to share their adoration for him. On the surface, nothing is problematic about this activity; however, these online communities quickly began to function as echo chambers, forming consensus views that grew inflated over time. Though Sanders himself was not an active participant on these social media websites, he did read the news and hear reports from staffers, emboldening him to speak with more candor at rallies and debates. This bolder message would then be absorbed by his followers, and the cycle would continue. The feedback loop persisted throughout the campaign, Sanders and his most fervent supporters taking turns upping the ante of combative rhetoric.

As we now know, Sanders’ endeavor to tarnish Clinton’s image among liberal voters had significant help from Russian hackers sowing discord at the Democratic National Convention and social media trolls spreading anti-Clinton memes and fake news stories. Recently, he even admitted to having known the Russians were helping him — and he used it to his advantage anyway. Lesser known by the public, Sanders also received assistance from Republican-affiliated Super PACs and the Republican National Committee itself — who were beside themselves with pleasure that Sanders was doing their dirty work for them. This had been publicly reported as early as May 2015, and again, while he did not ask for their aid, he relished it nonetheless. The combined efforts of Bernie Sanders, Moscow, and the Republican Party succeeded in turning Clinton’s favorable rating upside down.

[Cha]

425. Thanks, Goth..

the link works if you take the "@" out of it.

https://medium.com/blairdurkee/scorched-earth-politics-bernie-sanders-and-the-dishonest-campaign-that-gave-us-trump-eb0bc82ab2c1

[Scurrilous]

427. ...

[Cha]

430. ..

[LongtimeAZDem]

429. Wow. Excellent recap /nt

[Gothmog]

431. There is some great material in that article

[TomCADem]

455. It Seems With Kamala Harris, They Are Back In Force

I do wonder how many of the folks who are purporting to attack other Democrats in the name of Bernie are actually supportive of Bernie Sanders or even U.S. Nationals? It seems pretty formulaic. Insert name of Democrats then add: DLC, Clintonista, Neoliberal, Third Way, Betrayed Franken or Corporatist, then it gets retweeted and kicked. I wonder whether it is possible to create an algorithm that looks for those tags, then kicks or distributes them?

[Gothmog]

456. The sanders supporters were busy today

[LAS14]

432. He broke the ground for a focused "middle class" message, but now others...

... have taken up the banner. He won't have the benefit of standing alone.

[LAS14]

433. What's "the carceral state?" nt

[LongtimeAZDem]

457. K&R

[highplainsdem]

458. K&R