Texas teen charged in death stemming from egg-throwing prank

[left-of-center2012]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-texas-traffic-death/texas-teen-charged-in-death-stemming-from-egg-throwing-prank-police-idUSKCN1OW1HH

Texas authorities on Wednesday charged a teenager with murder after a prank that began when he and passengers in the car he was driving threw eggs at other vehicles ended in a crash that killed a 45-year-old woman, authorities said.

The 14-year-old boy, who was not identified, and two teenage passengers in the sport utility vehicle (SUV) he was driving “were reportedly throwing eggs at other cars just prior to the crash,” Harris County Sheriff Ed Gonzalez said on Twitter. Harris County contains Houston.

A man who showed a handgun began to chase the teens in his own vehicle, leading the 14-year-old driver to speed through a red light and crash into a pickup truck driven by 45-year-old Silvia Zavala, who died at the scene, the sheriff’s office said in a statement.

“The deceased female was totally innocent; seems she had just gone shopping based on some debris strewn at scene,” Gonzalez said on Tuesday.

The minimum age for unsupervised driving in Texas is 16, according to the state Department of Public Safety. The teenaged driver, who broke his ankle in the crash, was booked into a juvenile detention facility, Gonzalez said. The sheriff’s office on Wednesday said investigators had located and interviewed the driver of the car that chased the teens. They did not name the driver of the second car.

[jpak]

1. Pull a gun on an egg throwing teen?

That guy is responsible for that woman's death.

[malaise]

3. Yep

There the person who caused the crash

[ProudLib72]

4. +1

Angry man with a gun is never to blame, sadly.

[LeftInTX]

6. Guns are sacred...........doncha know?

[A HERETIC I AM]

7. Bullshit

Should the guy have chased them? No, but he didn’t force a 14 year old who shouldn’t have been driving in the first place to run a red light.



And for that matter, he’s lucky he didn’t cause a crash prior to that. Getting pelted by eggs as you are driving along could freak someone out. People crash for much less.

Fuck that little punk.

[jpak]

8. Fuck the gun brandishingdoosh

Yup

[A HERETIC I AM]

9. Well, one of them is charged with murder

The other, not so much.

[Blue_true]

15. Both should be charged.

The gunner for trying to make up for a small package, and the teen for being stupid enough not to obey traffic laws. Charge the kid with involuntary homicide, the gunner with being an accessory to involuntary homicide. Both are thoughtless and stupid.

[Chemisse]

23. I agree. Both share some blame.

Sad outcome for everyone involved (well, except the gunman, it appears).

[NutmegYankee]

13. Teare also said authorities found no evidence of an alleged gun being flashed by the driver in the C

Teare also said authorities found no evidence of an alleged gun being flashed by the driver in the Continental to the teens at this time.

https://www.click2houston.com/news/surveillance-video-shows-moment-of-deadly-crash-involving-14-year-old-driver

[A HERETIC I AM]

16. Well there you go

[Quixote1818]

21. Okay, that changes the dynamic. Thanks. nt

[moriah]

11. Just a question... should the 14 year old have simply let himself be shot?

No, he shouldn't have thrown eggs. Nor should someone have responded with a gun to thrown eggs.

I think both parties should be facing charges.

[A HERETIC I AM]

12. I don't defend the guy brandishing a gun and I don't defend him chasing the car

But I responded to a post that laid the blame for the death of the woman at HIS feet, when he didn’t run a red light and crash into anyone.

[moriah]

14. I just hope brandishing is a crime in TX, like it is here.

He might not get charged with murder because I doubt any jury would say he was 100% responsible, but a nice aggravated assault charge might teach him there are consequences to yanking out a gun.

Just as the other charges are teaching this teenager there are consequences for throwing eggs at cars and driving illegally and recklessly.

[aeromanKC]

52. Would also lose his right to own a gun

He would also lose his right to own/possess a gun in the future.

He is Guilty just as a getaway driver is guilty for armed robbery and a death if someone dies in that robbery.

[Hangingon]

63. Brandishing is against the law in Texas

I don’t know what is meant by “show” in the article. A gun being visible is not brandishing. The driver should not have given chase.

[cwydro]

17. This.

Little assholes.

[Drahthaardogs]

19. No way

He pulled a gun on a stupid kid for throwing a damned egg! That kid was terrified I'm sure.

I'm a gun owner, I grew up on a real working ranch. Guns were as much a part of life as a truck and tractor.

This is bullshit.

[ExciteBike66]

28. If a man with a gun were following you, would you be stopping for red lights?

The kid should be in trouble for what he did, but I totally understand him trying to get away from someone with a gun.

The kid and the gun owner are both to blame, there is plenty to go around in this case.

[A HERETIC I AM]

30. According to the link in post 13, no evidence of a gun has been found

And as to your question, if I was being chased by a guy with a gun, hell no I wouldn’t run red lights! If my life was in danger, why the hell would I want to increase the danger?

I find it astounding that so many on this thread want to blame the guy who was trying to catch some fucking VANDALS, specifically one who has no business being behind the wheel in the first place instead of holding to account a dumbass 14 year old punk on a mission whose purpose was to intentionally cause damage and stress to total strangers.

If anyone actually thinks this is no big deal, just ask a buddy to lie in wait somewhere and throw eggs at your car when you don’t expect it. It’ll scare the shit out of you and possibly cause loss of control

[ExciteBike66]

31. It seems reasonable to assign him part of the blame, not the whole thing.

Obviously the kids were in the wrong, but if the gun thing is true (or even if it isnt) and they were being followed by some stranger in a car, you can bet they were panicking.

I don't know anyone who thinks this is "no big deal", but the fact that some teens were egging cars doesn't mean that an adult can chase them in his car and not be blamed for the teens thinking their lives might be in danger.

What I don't understand is why you think it was ok for this guy to follow them at 60 mph on this road in his hooptie. At the very least he was exceeding the speed limit. Furthermore, if you look at the video, the guy chasing them also runs the red light! And he wasn't even being chased, like the kids were!

Edit: as for evidence of a gun, of course they haven't found any! They have barely talked with the driver according to that article, and it's not like he would be keeping the gun around if he actually did flash it.

Edit2: Seriously, if someone eggs your car, just take their plate and call the cops. High-speed chases are illegal. I would not be surprised if the guy gets his butt sued (and I bet he loses) for his stunt.

[A HERETIC I AM]

33. I'll tell ya what...

If I’m driving down the street and some
Fucking teenagers egg my car, you can bet your ass I’m following them and I’ll be on the phone to the cops the whole time.

Read the article. It says the guy that followed them was The guy they egged


The kid ran like he did because he was out driving mommys SUV, being a little dick and he didn’t want to get caught.

And then he ran a light and killed someone.

The End

[ExciteBike66]

34. Would you follow them even if they went at a high speed?

I mean, would you follow them so intensely that if they ran a stop-light, you would also run that stop-light? Is that worth it for an egging, especially if you could just take their plate number and call the cops?

You and I agree that the kid is to blame. I go further and think that the other driver is also to blame, although maybe not for straight up murder (could be manslaughter, though).

The way I see it, if the light had changed a second later, the chasing driver himself might have killed the woman, since he clearly was not stopping for the light either way. This makes me think society should assign him some blame for not being able to control his rage at being egged. We cannot have people act in that fashion merely because their car was egged.

Edited for too many "clearly"'s

[A HERETIC I AM]

54. I drive for a living, so the answer to your most pointed questions....

is no, of course not.

As I said in my post above, I don't defend the guy for any absurdly aggressive behavior. If he had a gun, then he was wrong to show it off. If he was driving recklessly to keep up, then he could have backed off and still stayed with them.

I participated in this thread because post # 1 said

"That guy is responsible for that woman's death".

No. No he isn't, not by any legal framework I am aware of, but admittedly I'm no attorney.

Several people have suggested this was just high-spirited teenage hi-jinks.

I was a teenager too. Sometimes it feels like last week. And I was a bit of an ass. I drank and smoked in High School, just like millions of other kids my age back in the late 70's. But never, not ONE SINGLE TIME did I or any of my friends EVER think it would be a good idea to steal a parents car and go do shit like that.

NOT ONCE.

I can see it all. I can put myself in that car. They were laughing, having a great time. Had maybe a dozen, perhaps 18 eggs with them they took from the fridge at home. The thrill of doing something so risky (they have basically stolen a car, driving illegally and were going to randomly vandalize people) has them on a serious adrenaline high. I would bet they had thrown some at other cars before they picked on that dude. When he reacted in anger instead of pulling over or slamming on the brakes like the others - when he floored it and pulled alongside, yelling, they freaked! If that had happened to me it would have infuriated me! I'm a good and courteous driver, and having some fucking punk throw an egg at my car would just piss me right the fuck off.

When he realized the guy was coming up after him, the 14 year old behind the wheel suddenly realized the shit just got real and he had better not get caught.

That was the moment, right there. That very second, when he decided to floor it, instead of pull over into a parking lot...THAT was the life changing decision.

He knew he was in trouble and he was going to get away from that trouble.

And it cost an innocent woman her life.

No, sorry, I can not blame the man for chasing them. Not even a little. I don 't defend him if he was overly aggressive, but I sure as hell understand why he might be.

[NutmegYankee]

10. The person behind the wheel of the SUV that ran to red light is responsible.

If the man is proven to have brandished a handgun he's an accessory. But I'm not going to wave responsibility for someone who had no business being behind the wheel and traveling at an extremely unsafe speed driving right through a red light and killing an innocent woman.

[MicaelS]

18. Unadulterated bullshit.

Fucking punk kids are wholly responsible.

[Quixote1818]

20. Agree nt

[Coventina]

37. I don't believe those kids for a second. They stole the car, for the purpose of terrorizing others

and then kill someone?

Right.

Those little hoodlums need to have the book thrown at them.

[Achilleaze]

39. A display of true republican "values"

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

50. Did anyone pull a gun? Or is this just a claim by the egg-throwing teen?

If there's evidence that the guy pulled a gun, then I'd agree with you, he's at fault.

[ret5hd]

2. Sad for everyone. This coulda been me (back in the day)...

16 yo or so, car, rowdy loud friends. 100 deg days, and the zamboni at the local ice skating rink would dump the ice shavings from the rink over a storm drain in the parking lot. We discovered this and loaded the back seat with snowballs. In the summer. I will leave the rest unsaid.

We thought it was hilarious. I am so glad nothing like this happened.

[Iggo]

5. I think I was 14 the last time I threw eggs at passing cars.

Damned lucky I didn't kill anyone.

[Quixote1818]

22. Me too. One time a guy we hit with a snowball got out of his car and chased us down

He got hold of my brother and started bashing his head into a wall then left. So I can see why teens can freak out if they think an adult is going to inflict harm on them, especially with a gun possibly involved.

Wish we had got his licence number. (The guy who bashed my brothers head into the wall)

[Chemisse]

24. We tend to forget the crazy punk ass stuff we did as kids.

Or the things our own kids did during their teen years, which we fervently hoped they would get through without permanent scarring.

Sometimes it bothers me that our fate within the justice system is so often based on sheer luck. I raced through red lights a few times during my youth (mostly because I hadn't learned to judge how far away the yellow light was). As luck would have it, nobody was hurt when I did that.

But if somebody had been hurt or killed, I would be an ex-con right now, rather than a respected science teacher. The two actions are identical, yet the punishment is either a ticket and a fine, or a long prison sentence and a ruined life.

[brooklynite]

25. Except that I didn't...

I never did a thing that damaged other people's property or put others in danger.

[ret5hd]

26. We are awed by your sense of perfection.

[brooklynite]

27. Perfection has nothing to do with it. Acting like a mature human does

[ExciteBike66]

29. Yeah well not everyone is mature as a tween-teen...

Glad you were, hats off to you!

[Adrahil]

36. In my experience...

It doesn't take much maturity to realize that throwing things at moving vehicles is a phenomenally stupid idea.

The guy that pulled a gun should be charged too. That was a major contributor.

[ExciteBike66]

40. I agree, and obviously that wasn't the kid's only stupid mistake.

Even a 14-year old knows to stop at red lights.

Teen boys do stupid things, probably most of them at least. I know I did.

I am hopeful that this kid is treated as a juvenile though, legally speaking.

[obamanut2012]

60. It isn't perfection, most of us never did this kind of destructive garbage

Including me. Ever. It never even entered my mind to do anything destructive, etc.

[Mr. Quackers]

32. I submit myself to your greatness and wish to become your acolyte

or disciple.

I will make my soul a bottomless empty ocean to be filled with your teachings.

Just joking.

Yeah, I didn't ever once in my life remember doing anything to damage people, property, or put others in danger.

[obamanut2012]

61. Me either

The pushback you are getting is weird -- I am betting most of us didn't act like little sociopaths.

[Coventina]

38. And if you'd killed someone, you rightly would have been charged with a crime.

Just because nothing bad happened when you did it, doesn't excuse these little murderers.

[ret5hd]

41. I don't understand what you are implying.

[Coventina]

43. I'm saying that going around throwing objects at cars is highly irresponsible and dangerous.

What those kids did resulted in them killing a woman.

They deserve to be charged with murder.

You indicate that you have done basically the same thing, except with snowballs instead of eggs.
If someone had died due to that, you also would have been rightly charged with a crime (the exact crime would depend on the circumstances).

I could be wrong in how I interpreted your post, but it seemed to me that you were excusing these kids because you had done something similar at a similar age.

This prompted me to point out that you would have been similarly guilty as these kids (allegedly) are.

[kcr]

55. No, the asshole threatening them with a gun did.

I fully believe you'd be spouting the same vengeful gun nutty sputter if those eggs would have been snowballs.

[Coventina]

57. No gun was ever found. I don't believe kids committing felonies in their attempts to get away

with their crimes.

I hate guns. Have never and will never own one, the supposed gun is a non-issue in this case.

[moriah]

58. Since the allegedly brandishing driver didn't stop at the scene and render aid...

... he's still facing felony charges, whether or not he ditched whatever gun he might or might not have had. If brandishing was proven I'd want that charge as well.

However, with him leaving the scene, "lack of evidence" is pretty easy to explain without necessarily saying the kids were lying when they said they believed the guy chasing them flashed a gun. Coulda been his cell phone, the driver could have ditched the gun after leaving the scene, etc.

And leaving the scene of such an accident after chasing a car into it, provoked or not, suggests a guilty conscience as well.

[Coventina]

59. I agree that he should not have left the scene. But I still don't believe those hoodlums.

I am not inclined to believe someone who went out with the intent to commit crimes and terrorize their fellow citizens.

This entire situation rests on them, and them alone.

[Coventina]

35. So this kid steals a car, and participates in vandalism, then runs a red light and kills someone

and we're supposed to blame some third party because the kids say he brandished a gun at them?

Yeah, like I'm supposed to believe those little hoodlums.

Throw the book at them.



(I had a close friend who lost his daughter to a red light runner, and was almost killed himself)

[ExciteBike66]

42. I think the operative word there is "kid"

He should be prosecuted, but only as a juvenile.

I don't think it takes away from the kid's crime to also lob some blame at the guy chasing the kid. If you watch the video, it is clear that the guy did not stop at the red light either. The chasing driver was so enraged that he drove recklessly and (possibly) flashed a gun. Those actions in themselves warrant punishment. It is doubly sad that the chasing driver was an adult, and yet he showed just as little maturity as the 14-year-old he was chasing.

[Coventina]

44. I agree that the other driver deserves some scrutiny, and a ticket for running the red.

But since no gun was found, I don't believe the kids' story.

Bottom line is these kids went out to commit crimes. Everything that happened is the result of their actions and theirs alone.

[ExciteBike66]

45. He didn't just run the red, but we agree that he has some blame.

Since the guy didn't stop, we will never know if he had a gun or not. It's not like he would admit to it after the fact.

Regardless of the gun, though, it was clear the kids were scared by the chase, else why would they have tried to get away so quickly? Since the chase (and the scare) was caused by the pursuing car, it seems to me that he might be hit with a manslaughter charge. It was the combination of the two drivers' actions that lead to the death.

The fact that the kids committed vandalism initially should probably be treated as separate from the later car chase incident. It's not like the chasing driver thought he was protecting himself and others by pursuing the vandals.

[Coventina]

46. Nope. This is entirely on the kids. They were scared? Poor babies. (not)

They shouldn't have STOLEN A CAR and proceeded to commit acts of vandalism and terrorizing other drivers.

That they were scared means they knew they were doing wrong and were trying to flee their consequences.

This is all on them. Every bit of it.

[ExciteBike66]

48. My question then is do you think that the chasing driver was correct to chase them at 60mph?

We already agree that he ran the red and deserves at least a ticket for that. But are his other actions really blameless?

1.) If there was no egging, and he just chased them for no reason, then of course we would blame him for the death, at least partially, right?

2.) If #1 is the case, how does the egging change the situation? Is it merely enough that the kids were criminal vandals at that point, that it would justify driving recklessly in pursuit of them and absolve the chasing driver of any blame whatsoever for the chase that he himself initiated?

[Coventina]

49. If he was chasing them to get their license number then yes, he was in the right.

They committed a violent crime against him, and were intending to commit more crimes.

They needed to have someone get their plate number and report them.

THEY chose to flee at unsafe speed, after committing a crime. HE was following them due to the CRIME they committed.

The police and prosecutor chose to charge the kids and not him for a reason.

They were in the wrong and he wasn't.

THEY took a woman's life and ruined her family's life.

Not him.

They deserve to have their lives ruined because of THEIR CHOICES.

[ExciteBike66]

51. I cannot agree that he was right to chase that such speeds.

Considering what the chasing driver did was technically a violation, I don't think we can just say he was in the right.

As for charges, I read that a grand jury will be hearing charges against the chase driver, at least for leaving the scene.

https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/14-year-old-driver-who-caused-fatal-New-Year-s-13502912.php

Furthermore, the kid was charged with murder only because he was committing a separate crime at the time (using a car without permission). Not unlike "felony murder" in that sense. Obviously the kid did not intend to kill the victim here.

I don't think we are going to see eye-to-eye on this. The adult driver's response to an egging was so out of line with a rational response that I feel he must be punished (though not for murder). It is clear to me that this was a road-rage incident on his part, since he was willing to run a red light and blatantly put people in danger. The fact that he did not hit anyone is not enough to justify letting him off the hook with a ticket.

[Coventina]

56. No, we aren't going to see eye-to-eye if you see being the victim of a crime as "road rage"

He wasn't cut off, he wasn't flipped a bird, HE WAS ATTACKED!

Fuck those little hoodlums.

[Blue_Tires]

47. Well Texas is the state that gave us "affluenza"

so maybe the kids get off the hook

[Thomas Hurt]

53. the kid and the gun toting dude should be looking at negligent homicide

[Bucky]

62. No shortage of assholes in this story. Violent vandal, his parents letting him drive...

... the jerk brandishing a gun to chase down the little punk.

And some poor woman dies from everybody's stupidity.