General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAre Democrats losing the framing on the shutdown issue?
I think that maybe they are?
First of all, they allowed themselves to be brought into negotiations over an issue which they had nothing to do with. Republicans are in charge of House, Senate, and White House and Democrats allowed Mitch McConnell to frame the issue as between Trump and the Democrats.
In my opinion, they would have been in a better position if they had pointed out that the Republicans and Donald Trump have control of all the government, which they do, until the Democrats take over the House on January 3rd. They cannot negotiate for the Republicans. After January the 3rd, then they can talk about what needs to be negotiated. Until then, it is all up to the Republicans.
manor321
(3,344 posts)And since we take the House on Jan 3rd, there is no incentive for Dems to cave.
kentuck
(111,110 posts)But they still need to frame it for the public, in my opinion.
Hekate
(90,793 posts)...and they ate his lunch for all the world to see.
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)Next....
kentuck
(111,110 posts)What gives you such optimism?
dansolo
(5,376 posts)With all the cameras rolling, Nancy told Trump exactly what you are saying they should have done. So why are you complaining?
kentuck
(111,110 posts)I must have missed that?
caraher
(6,279 posts)Pelosi tells him to go get the votes in the House, Trump says the trouble is needing 60 in the Senate, Pelosi says fine, you can get the ball rolling at least, Trump says that would be a waste of time...
Hekate
(90,793 posts)They ate his lunch, took his lunch money, spanked him and sent him home. They batted him back and forth between them like a ping pong ball.
Then Nancy put on her red coat and sailed out, followed by Chuck smiling like the Cheshire Cat.
uppityperson
(115,679 posts)kentuck
(111,110 posts)I guess we will see in the next few days.
My hope is that they do nothing but make your point until they take control of the House on the 3rd.
uppityperson
(115,679 posts)Wellstone ruled
(34,661 posts)that the Media wants you to believe. Remember,they the Media did everything possible to elect Trump and the Rethugs in 2016.
It is all about the money my friends.
kentuck
(111,110 posts)Because there is not a suitable alternative.
Wellstone ruled
(34,661 posts)reelection mode. And the Media knows where their largest payday is,and it is the Ad business for Presidential Elections.
This pattern started a few months ago,notice how certain Media Companies are no longer until news reporter review.
Even Bloomberg has backed off.
DonaldsRump
(7,715 posts)The battle here is as much a PR one as it is a substantive one. The Ds need to constantly refer to Trump as a liar (nothing new, but it helps trivialize the vanity that the $5 billion demand is all about) for at least the following:
(i) about Mexico's paying for this, and
(ii) for his taking the blame, and then not taking the blame, for the shutdown.
Besides being excellent at greed and selfishness, the Rs are much better (usually) on spin that plays well to folks. The substance and the spin are totally important in most political issues, and this one is no exception.
Also, publicizing/getting the message is as important, and the Rs seemed to much better at getting the story out via search engine optimization etc. I truly hope the Ds are investing in getting to the same level on this as the Rs.
I don't know enough to say whether the Ds are losing or winning the PR battle on the "funding for the wall" issue, but they cannot lose sight of this. This is a winning issue for the Ds, but it needs to be handled correctly both substantively and spin-wise.
kentuck
(111,110 posts)...to counter any horde that tries to cross the border?
They should not be negotiating anything at all. After January 3rd, then they can discuss what needs to be cut from the moron's budget.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)that the term "government shutdown" is nearly as scary-sounding as it was a few decades ago. We've had a number of them of varying lengths, and the sky has not yet fallen.
It may well be that the American public is inured to them, and they appear to frighten D. C.-types more than they do Main Street-types. It's all a matter of who suffers the most pain from an extended shutdown, and I have yet to see where Trump's base has a lot of potential angst over this.
ismnotwasm
(42,008 posts)What we are doing is calling the wall medieval 4th century and talking about real border security using modern technology. Democrats framed this perfectly.
Cha
(297,655 posts)https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211582634
Trump owns the shutdown. And hes OK with that.
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/12/23/government-shutdown-2018-trump-white-house-1074565
Trumps shutdown stunt is an act of needless stupidity
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/trumps-shutdown-stunt-is-an-act-of-needless-stupidity/2018/12/21/5567582c-0551-11e9-b6a9-0aa5c2fcc9e4_story.html?utm_term=.0583b1d06151
ooky
(8,929 posts)which is possible. But I haven't seen either Schumer or Pelosi stray from their stated positions of "no wall money". No more than they have already offered to keep the government open.