Judge Sullivan & Flynn: I too wondered why Mueller team recommended no jail...

[Equinox Moon]

Last edited Wed Dec 19, 2018, 12:07 PM - Edit history (1)

Rachel Maddow's reporting yesterday included a lot of what Judge Sullivan said and I wonder even more why Mueller's team recommended go easy on the guy. There were a lot of crimes they are letting fall away with this one guilty plea of lying. I get it, he cooperated, but to no consequence. What are the consequences to him for giving over some truth? It does not seem fair. I am glad the Judge caught the nuances of this situation and spelled it out.

Mueller being soft on Flynn raises questions for me.

[LonePirate]

1. One theory I heard was that Flynn provided info about a major crime by someone above him.

Papadopolous served time for lying so it seems odd that Flynn received a recommendation of no time from Mueller. I seriously doubt Mueller had a change of heart. It was a quid pro quo situation.

[greymattermom]

2. So he knew things that Papadopolous didn't know.

About people above him in the food chain. Must be good stuff.

[lancelyons]

5. He would have to testify in some court setting about that crime before he should be relieved

He would have to testify in some court setting about that crime before he should be relieved.

Just telling Mueller this is not enough.

He could easily just say I was pressured after sentencing was over. How would Mueller go back and change that?

[LonePirate]

10. If Flynn was also involved/implicated in the major crime, he would have an incentive to confess.

[EffieBlack]

11. What if

Flynn had some major information but refused to give it up without a promise that Mueller would recommend no jailtime,. Mueller was willing to do that since he knew that the final decision rested with the judge and he suspected that, knowing what he knew, the judge wouldn't go for it.

Mueller got his big information and the judge didn't go for the recommendation but instead told him to cooperate more if he wants a chance of avoiding jail.

Win-win for Mueller.

[gratuitous]

16. Possible, but a dicey move

It's hard to predict what a judge is going to do in any particular case. Mueller's team may indeed have counted on the judge to provide the harsh reality of his situation to defendant Flynn, but that's by no means guaranteed. Judge Sullivan - who has read the unredacted sentencing memos - clearly thought the prosecution had left far too much on the table by recommending no jail time for defendant Flynn. Sullivan's harsh words for Flynn were also an oblique shot across the prosecution's bow: You're going to have to show me something better than this to justify no jail time for Flynn.

We'll see what the parties come back with in 90 days. Flynn should definitely be making arrangements for spending less time with his family.

[EffieBlack]

21. I assume that whatever Flynn gave him was worth the deal he struck

The judge's action was just a bonus ...

[NewJeffCT]

20. That was Malcolm Nance's thinking

especially in light of Flynn's cronies getting charged on Monday.

Must have been "gold plated" info given up was Nance's words. He's been way ahead of the mainstream on much of Trump/Russia

[Squinch]

3. Mueller went easy on Sammy the Bull to get Gotti.

[Goodheart]

7. I think that ship had already sailed.

Nineteen interviews. Substantial cooperation already. Unless Mueller showed Judge Sullivan that he had made an agreement with Flynn beforehand to get all that then, no, it was a mistake to recommend a light sentence.

[FakeNoose]

4. My theory: Mueller did this as a setup

He's playing Flynn like it's a good-cop/bad-cop setup. He's letting Flynn know that there's still time to save his ass but it's quickly running out. Is Flynn really that stupid, or maybe it's his lawyers?

There's no way Flynn doesn't get prison time. No way! But cooperation with Mueller might get him a few years in a country club prison, as opposed to 20 years hard time with the big, bad men. To most of us it's a no-brainer. Flynn has to realize that any "pardon" from Cheeto would be worthless, and probably not gonna happen.

[canetoad]

32. Yeah, I was thinking along the same lines

And I think the key is in the redacted material from Flynns first interview transcript. I don't believe Mueller is playing games, rather he suspects that Flynn is holding back and threw him to the judge to decide.

[Goodheart]

6. I expressed the same sentiment here when Mueller's sentencing recommendation was first made public

and caught a lot of flack for it.

"Mueller is god and incapable of error; he knows all so don't question it!" was the prevailing attitude here.

Now, I respect the f*** out of Robert Mueller, but his recommendation was a mistake.

Just let this sink in: our NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR was operating as an agent for a foreign government... on our dime, on our trust. If that doesn't deserve substantial punishment then we might as well just forgive donald trump all his own crimes, too.

[Equinox Moon]

8. Flynn sounds like a spy to me. Why is this not the label being used?

Last edited Wed Dec 19, 2018, 12:36 PM - Edit history (1)

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

12. The Espionage Act pertains to giving national defense secrets

to foreign governments, and I don't think he had any to give at the time he was trying to be Kislyak's BFF. Which isn't to say that what he was doing wasn't dastardly; it just doesn't fit the statutory definition of espionage. They certainly would have charged him with it if it did. What he did do was tell Kislyak to hold off retaliating for Obama's expulsion of diplomats and other sanctions until Trump took office, but that wasn't a national defense secret.

[Equinox Moon]

13. Okay, so that is why he isn't being called a spy.

It all sounds on the fringe to me either way. The lives people live!

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

17. Technically he's not a spy. But he is a traitorous dirtbag.

[kentuck]

42. He was head of the Defense Intelligence Agency.

He had a lot of secrets.

[Thrill]

9. Because he gave up info to get the big fish

That’s how Feds work

[mitch96]

28. I think they gave him a pass cause he wore a wire

before anyone in the administration knew he flipped, he got 'em all on tape confessing to their dirty deeds... THAT would be nail in the coffin proof of what happened...
That got Nixon too...
m

[FakeNoose]

43. Yep, it could be how he got Pence

We'll see soon enough!

[triron]

14. Does for me as well.

Gives me a queasy feeling. Not sure about Mueller anymore.

[aikoaiko]

15. I'm willing to give Mueller the benefit of the doubt.

Flynn was early on in the investigation. Sometimes you need a good push to get that first domino to fall.

Someday, there will be a detailed analysis of this investigation. I'll wait to see what it says.

[rockfordfile]

18. Nope. Don't ever trust a republican.

[genxlib]

19. I think the simplest answer is often the right one

Flynn is career military

Some would give him slack for his lifetime of service

Some would go harder on him because a career soldier is the last person who should be flirting with treason

I think viewing it through this lens could be the difference

[EffieBlack]

22. I think it's even simpler than that

Whatever Flynn gave him was worth the deal - and Mueller knew that the judge wouldn't give him any less time bur could very possibly could give him more time than recommended, so there was no downside to cutting the deal?

[Equinox Moon]

23. Right. Translation: White, good-ole'-boys club.

Judge Sullivan saw right through all this and gave the correct response and tenor.

[PDittie]

24. I thought it was a no-brainer

No jail time short-circuits a pardon from Trump.

Judge Sullivan seems to think Flynn needs some time in the pokey, which is fine by me. Whatever he decides, Flynn gets to simmer in his treasonous juices through the holidays. Not a very Merry Christmas.

But Trump is likely to save Benedict Flynn no matter what and fade the heat for it.

[Buckeyeblue]

25. Flynn's reputation is ruined and that was enough for Mueller

And he knew it was going to get worse when sentencing happened. And if Flynn gave him really good info, it's worth the light sentence.

[rusty fender]

27. Yet he is still a hero to the Trumpasses

Flynn is set to make millions on the same talk circuit that Oliver North travelled on after his criminal activities in Iran/Contra.

Flynn’s ruined reputation may hurt him in his soul, but not in his pocket.

Something’s not adding up in Mueller’s no jail-time sentence

[Buckeyeblue]

30. Hopefully it'll make sense when this is all over

[rusty fender]

31. Yes!

I look forward to it being over and done with

[Equinox Moon]

34. "Something's not adding up in Mueller's no jail-time sentence"

I think so too.

[Firestorm49]

26. Mueller knows the "why's" and we don't......yet.

[WeekiWater]

29. I don't see how we know enough to make the claim of Mueller being soft.

The information simply isn't available. Bits and pieces and wild speculation.

[Equinox Moon]

33. I am also going by what Judge Sullivan said and how he said it.

He has read all of it and was furious.

[WeekiWater]

35. He also backed down from some of what he said.

I can give you a whole list of quotes from judges at sentencing that would leave you scratching your head, simply because they don't meet your wants as this judge did. Putting that much stock in the words of one person is not a good way to come up with a worldview. It's zero reason to claim Mueller is weak.

[Equinox Moon]

36. I know they say he cooperated and that is why, I don't see that as good enough. IMO

There are no consequences to him. His RW cronies will find work for him. His family and friends are behind him. There were protestors supporting him. Flynn's cooperation is hopefully helpful and taking down some crooks, but he is a major crook and will walk away.

I question it and wonder what is going on behind it. I appreciate the discussion. I am reading all the points.

[WeekiWater]

40. Crooked cronies don't elbow up with snitches.

He will be assisted finding a comfortable job. His life will be dramatically different than before. It’s not that uncommon when people roll. I’ve personally witnessed all charges dropped on a friend who rolled. With Flynn’s history his information could span activities across the globe netting some really big fish. This could also be a bit of theatre. We don’t know. Lots of assumptions and opinions being stated as certainty.

[spanone]

37. maybe flynn delivered trump?

[Equinox Moon]

38. That would be great. Yet Flynn needs consequences.

[Kaleva]

39. It's untruthful to say Mueller recommended no jail

He recommended a sentence at the lower end of the guideline which is up to 6 months in jail.

"For its part, the special counsel’s office stood by its recommendation that Flynn should face a sentence at the low end of federal sentencing guidelines, which called for him to spend zero to six months in prison. But they seemed to offer a less than full-throated defense of Flynn."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/michael-flynn-trumps-former-national-security-adviser-scheduled-to-be-sentenced/2018/12/17/19ce1bb4-0247-11e9-b5df-5d3874f1ac36_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.d7be73301f1c

The judge is of course free to give Flynn a sentence at the high end of the guideline.

[triron]

41. You're correct. Yet the media keeps pushing the no jail time narrative. Why?

[Kaleva]

45. The article I linked to said no such thing.

I guess the quality of the media source matters.

[lame54]

44. If Trump can dangle pardons - so can Mueller

[ecstatic]

46. Yep. That's why I caution against all the "wait until Mueller's report comes out"

crap. We already have more than enough evidence that trump is a criminal who is unfit for office. Why put all our eggs in Mueller's basket?

[Equinox Moon]

47. I am with you on this.