Would a typical chemistry student not know...

[Buckeye_Democrat]

... that most elements are created by stars?

I majored in mathematics with a minor in physics, and I was flabbergasted when I coworker from India -- supposedly with a BS in Chemical Engineering and an MS in Chemistry -- didn't know that nearly all the elements were created from nuclear fusion from stars (the heaviest elements from supernovas).

He also laughed at me mockingly when I said that crude oil came from ancient plants and animals. He said, "Crude oil has always been there, just like everything else in the universe. Stuff just moves around, but it never changes." (That's how the chemical element discussion started.)

He told me that his family had servants in India. The main topic of conversation from him is how he can make MONEY, so he doesn't exactly strike me as the scientific type.

I'm not ashamed to admit that I despise him. He's the epitome of laziness from what I've observed to this point. (I have to train the guy in the "basics" of my company's business since I oversee everything in quality control.)

[SWBTATTReg]

1. Well, perhaps most heavier elements are created by various types of stars. Of course...

most hydrogen and helium, and lithium was made in the big bang itself (not in stars) and from what I have read, the rest of the elements were manufactured in various types of stars, of course being that the bigger and larger stars, being hotter, made most of the bigger elements (in proton/neutron count). They even speculate that some of the bigger elements such as gold, uranium, etc. were made when the winds of a supernova pushed protons/neutrons outwards from an exploding star, causing atoms to get larger and larger until these elements were manufactured (they haven't really seen gold or uranium actually in the spectra of a star being manufactured last I heard, but this could have changed by now, it's been a while since I reviewed).

You are right, this is lazy to the Nth degree, and a scary thing to see, when people of this type are around, w/ such an shocking lack of knowledge. Especially the 'oil' business you discussed w/ him. Wow. Just wow. I hope you don't have to work w/ him very much for if he does, he could literally kill someone accidently by his lack of knowledge.

[ProfessorGAC]

3. On Gold, Etc.

I've seen documentaries where the math suggest that massive pressure of the shock wave provides the energy to generate the forced fusion to heavy elements
Takes lots of energy, but the shock wave of a supernova sure seems to fit that description
I also agree with the 2 of you that someone of the education of the subject in the OP should know this stuff

[PJMcK]

2. Your co-worker didn't study much

If he has an MS in Chemistry, he was a lousy student and had a lousy education. Period.

All of the sciences are interconnected. Biology, Chemistry, Physics and all of their off-shoots are parts of the spectrum of our understanding of the Universe. By stating that crude oil has always existed demonstrates that your co-worker doesn't understand those interconnections.

Second, this is a wonderful lecture by Lawrence Krauss has a wonderful explanation of how the heavier elements were created in the fiery furnaces of stars. When those stars explode, they spew those elements out into the Universe. Without those supernovae, we wouldn't be here. Our bodies are made of star stuff. So, the atoms in your left hand came from a different star than those in your right hand!

Enjoy:

[SWBTATTReg]

4. Thanks. Will enjoy. I have a nice book, I'll get the title of it later, that's good too. nt

[oasis]

6. Definitely thought provoking. Thanks.

[Takket]

5. I would subtly quiz him on a few other basics

Or give him some simple tasks. If he can’t do them you may be dealing with someone who got his degree by his parents throwing piles of money at the school.

If that’s the case you need to get with your boss and have him fired before he does real harm to your company.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

9. I'm going to wait until his incompetence is discovered by management.

My company mostly works with various glues, so I doubt that he'll cause a major chemical disaster. Some of the glues have solvents in them, though.

The President of the company, who has a bachelor's degree in chemistry and an MBA, hired him. It blows my mind. He surely didn't spend much time quizzing him during the interview! The President talks (usually about himself) far more than he listens, so maybe I shouldn't be surprised?

I raised my voice at the Indian coworker during the first week that I trained him. He was not paying attention as I tried to show him the numerous tests in the QC lab and I said, "Quit wandering away when I'm trying to show you something!"

The following day, I was called to the front office about it. I apologized for raising my voice. He claimed that I SCREAMED at him, which wasn't true. If he thought that was screaming, he's in for a rude awakening in that factory full of blue-collar workers. Those guys don't treat others with kid gloves and "inappropriate" comments often spew from their mouths.

He's mostly in the chemistry lab now, thank goodness. I've already witnessed his new trainer (who tests glues) get irritated by him, so it's probably just a matter of time until he's gone.

[ProudLib72]

10. This is worrying

So he has a complaint in against you. Now if you try to complain about him, it will look like revenge. Does anyone else work with him?

[Buckeye_Democrat]

11. That was my thought process.

That's why I'm quietly waiting for others to complain about him.

I trained him, or tried to train him, for about a month. I don't see him as often now. He'll occasionally visit the QC lab to use some of our testing equipment (usually needing reminders of how to perform the tests), but he's mostly in the chemical room with another trainer now.

Edit: I'm basically still training him when he visits the lab because he doesn't remember most of what I showed him. He didn't take notes like I recommended because that's only necessary for people with "bad memories" according to him. He obviously has a terrible memory, but he doesn't acknowledge it. He has a very high opinion of himself.

[fescuerescue]

12. A word about hiring and firing

In just about every company:

People are hired based upon their skills and qualifications. Or at least how they present them.

People are evaluated (for promotion) on what they accomplish.

People are fired based on behaviors and attitudes.


What this means, is that now, management doesn't care about his education and background. They are only paying attention to his accomplishments (if any), and any attitude/behavior that he manages to highlight.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

14. He shows up for "work" every day.

That seems to be the most important criteria for job retention at that place. Lol.

I've also never worked at a place that seems so eager to pay overtime, as if that's a true sign of dedication even when little work is getting done.

Major screw-ups that cost the company a lot of money are a big no-no, of course. I'm anticipating such a mistake from the Indian man eventually.

[harumph]

18. Record his ass.

[Bucky]

7. Just as challenges make us stronger, ease makes us weak

This is why Teddy Roosevelt champions of strenuous life. Rich people are susceptible to becoming intellectually lazy. Early in life they don't have to calculate how to get by survival obstacles in life

[LakeSuperiorView]

8. I have met people from India who are highly intelligent and those like your coworker.

I think some education in India is merely teaching buzzwords to claim that they know what they are talking about.

Having a BA in Chemistry, I can say that you would have to have received a substandard education to not know that heavier elements are created in stars. The astronomy definition of metal (all elements heavier than hydrogen and helium) clashes the the chemistry definition and certainly isn't emphasized. That astronomy "metals" are created in stars and supernovas should be obvious to anyone who even has even a slight interest in chemistry.

"Stuff just moves around, but it never changes" is an abject failure for a science student.

His opinions sound like science denial thoughts that right wingers tend to adhere to. Probably thinks the Earth might be flat also.

If he will be involved in quality control at all, I would consider him to be a severe liability to the company. He strikes me as the type to falsify results to achieve the expected rather than deal with the issues of having to reject a faulty lot.

I once had to tell the owner of the company, in the middle of the night (the asshole production manager called him in) that the hydrogen peroxide was not purged from the brand new bottling system. The owner was a mechanical engineer and thought he knew chemistry. There was so much that the standard titration produced an odd color with the first drop of potassium permanganate he ran into the flask. He said I didn't know what doing and there was no peroxide at all. I reached past him and twisted the buret wide open, and the permanganate color was eaten up as fast as it could run in. I chose to keep my mouth shut at that point, only discussing it with my manager the next morning so my side was represented.

[muriel_volestrangler]

13. It's a chemical engineer denying that oil comes from ancient organisms that's more weird

A chemical engineer stands a good chance of ending up in petrochemicals. If he's going to say he doesn't believe the basis of the industry, that's a problem. Not knowing about the production of elements shows a lack of curiosity, but you can do everything in chemistry without thinking about it.

[Poiuyt]

15. Show him a picture of a nuclear explosion

I'm pretty sure that elements were changed in that reaction.

[edhopper]

16. My first reaction

is what religion he practices. Nine times out of ten, that is the basis of such ignorance.

[Mariana]

25. Excellent point. For example, if he's a creationist Christian

then he believes God made all the elements and the oil and whatever else in, its current form. Even if he had been taught how heavier elements came to be, if he didn't believe it was true, how well would he retain that information?

[dembotoz]

26. My thought as well

[harumph]

17. Was it a university in India? If so, that answers your question.

[exboyfil]

27. There are very good engineering universities in India

I work with their graduates all the time.

[McCamy Taylor]

19. Even Asians can be stupid. And money can buy a degree anywhere.

[pnwmom]

21. A good engineering school in the US won't graduate an ignoramus.

I wonder where he got his degrees?

[exboyfil]

28. The part about the oil

My old boss, who has a BS in Mechanical Engineering from Colorado State has the same view. It comes back to his religious beliefs. He is very intelligent (smarter than me).

[pnwmom]

30. Yeah, but the guy in the OP mentioned chemistry and Chem E degrees.

It's hard to believe any US graduate with those degrees wouldn't understand where oil comes from.

[exboyfil]

32. My old boss worked in the oil industry

before coming to the company I worked for. He knows what science says about it. He just doesn't believe it.

He is also a young Earth creationist.

[pnwmom]

33. My husband had a friend who was Mormon. He says they were taught

to regurgitate the science they were taught, but not to believe it.

OTOH, at least the Mormon could regurgitate the standard science, unlike the guy mentioned in the OP.

[pnwmom]

20. Where did he get his degrees? n/t

[GulfCoast66]

22. I know science majors and engineers from good colleges

That believe the story of Adam and Eve and that god flooded the earth 8000 years ago.

Humans are great at compartmentalizing and believing myths.

[Victor_c3]

23. I have a degree in chemistry and even used to work as a chemist for the federal government

I spent a lot of time trying to convince everyone that I was an idiot. I spouted flat-earth nonsense and creationist stuff all the time. I even made up my own names for the elements and would pretend to get all confused. Fe is feronium, Si is silver, W is widgidium, and so on.

Ti is tin
Sn is, I don’t know what
Sb is anything but Antimony
Pb????
S has got to be silver, but I thought Si was silver. Why is it in the table twice?

I also used to pronounce the ‘ch’ in “chemistry” like you pronounce it in “chest”....

I’m great at being an idiot.

[violetpastille]

34. Ha ha ha. That is awesome! n/t

[Hekate]

24. Start a CYA file on this incompetent. nt

[exboyfil]

29. It is funny that the very same point about

graduate chemists not knowing about the origin of elements was made in a book which I just read.

It was "Universe in Creation" by Roy Gould.

Even if you were taught something, you may forget it over time if thinking about it does not enter into you daily life. Knowledge has to be continually reinforced.

For me the bone headed thought I had at one time was that the elliptical orbit of the earth caused the seasons. I know better, but for some reason I convinced myself of this fact.

[lamsmy]

31. Understand where he has come from

I am not trying to minimalize his horridness, but it might help to understand why he thinks and behaves as he does.

1. Many Indian schools, even posh ones, still teach by rote. Teachers lecture, students memorize, and there is no discussion or questioning. Or very much learning. The idea of teaching "critical thinking" is relatively new, and has yet to penetrate much of the world. Some places (think China) actually deliberately avoid encouraging critical thinking. So this man is very much the product of a crappy education system.

2. India also still has one of the most hierarchical social systems on the planet - probably the worst in fact. Even the Indians I know who do business there complain about this. Incompetence and laziness are legion in an environment where the elites believe they deserve their superiority because of their high caste birth and that are naturally "better" than those below them.
And they hate, HATE, to be questioned or challanged in any way. Doubly so if that questioner is female.

So Inda has all the ingredients necessary to produce a ton of especially toxic ignorant jerks. (So too does much of the Middle East). On the other hand, remember there are ignorant jerks every where and enough fools willing to promote them to the highest levels.

[Initech]

35. Oh come on! The Big Bang Theory created the Infinity Stones don't you know?

[DetlefK]

36. The state of education in India is simply horrible:

1.
I had a colleague who had studied at an indian university. She had a Master's degree in physics. They had never taught her quantum-mechanics.

A Master's degree in physics.

Without quantum-mechanics.




2.
A few years ago I read that not even indian companies trust indian universities. Indian universities are so bad that companies prefer to hire students of art who are then re-educated on the company's time and money to become scientists and engineers.

Indian companies don't trust scientists and engineers who come from indian universities.




3.
There are Youtube-videos of people pranking indian telephone-scammers. One time, they got such an indian scammer to speak frankly about what he does and why he scams people:

These scammers despise the US, because Americans are lazy and stupid and don't deserve their own money.

And the only thing that counts in life is moneymoneymoneymoneymoneymoneymoneymoneymoneymoney.