"Swift boating" Poppa Bush. Sorry but his family deserves it.

[underpants]

Retired Navy Gunner Offers Different Account : Bush Story of War Incident Challenged

Chester Mierzejewski, who was the turret gunner in another plane, said in an interview that he has been bothered "for years" about Bush's version of the incident, haunted by the belief that Bush could have saved the two men in his plane, which crashed into the South Pacific in September, 1944.

'No Smoke'

However, Mierzejewski said in his account, which first appeared in Friday's New York Post, that "no smoke came out of his cockpit when he opened his canopy to bail out."

Mierzejewski contended that if Bush had attempted a water landing, the two men could have been saved, if they were still alive.

Mierzejewski said his next door neighbor, Larry Hermann, a lawyer, "had been after me for some time, saying: 'Why don't you give your version?' I kept saying no, no." He said he agreed to talk to the New York Post two months ago after Bush failed to answer a letter he sent him. Hart said Bush's office has no record of receiving such a letter.

"Personally, I have no problem with Bush," Mierzejewski said. "I'm not going to base my vote on one incident. I haven't made up my mind who I'm voting for."

Hermann, who denied in an interview that he was trying to hurt Bush politically, said Mierzejewski's was "a story that should be told. I respect the man."

http://articles.latimes.com/1988-08-13/news/mn-194_1_bush-spokesman

[guillaumeb]

1. Recommended.

[underpants]

22. Thank you.

[UTUSN]

2. K&R I've been wanting to bring it up but since I didn't have the details in a row, I didn't.

[underpants]

3. Love how it's gone to cannibalism

George HW Bush narrowly escaped comrades' fate of being killed and eaten by Japanese captors

The horrific fate of the other eight "flyboys" was established in subsequent war crimes trials on the island of Guam, but details were sealed in top secret files in Washington to spare their families distress.

Mr Bradley has established that they were tortured, beaten and then executed, either by beheading with swords or by multiple stab-wounds from bayonets and sharpened bamboo stakes. Four were then butchered by the island garrison's surgeons and their livers and meat from their thighs eaten by senior Japanese officers.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/06/george-hw-bushs-comrades-eaten-japanese-pow-guards/

[UTUSN]

4. Wow.

[localroger]

5. What does 'his family' have to do with what HW did in the service?

Sorry, while I obviously disagree with most of the Bushes about just about everything, the fact is GHWB served and risked his life doing so. Having not been in the military myself I have to respect that. And as much as I disagreed with him about almost everything, I think he served as President with dignity and honor. At the time I thought he was a shitty president and his son was a disgrace, but I didn't know how bad it could get.

[underpants]

20. Everyone has baggage

[Mike Nelson]

6. War stories can be...

… like fish stories, especially when you have "name" service members.

[Scruffy1]

7. I truly despise his politics but I can see no point in denigrating his service.

Torpedo plane flyers had the most dangerous job in the Navy. Imagine coming in low, slow and staright against concentrated enemy fire. It's easy for anyone to second gas a pilot's decision who wasn't in the cockpit, but my experience flying has that it has to be really bad for a pilot who's always to trying to concentrate on flying the plane to make a decsion to hit the silk.

[deurbano]

11. And he was 20.

[underpants]

19. Second guessing vs. adulation

[Honeycombe8]

30. I agree. This is a typical political tool to damage an opponent's war record.

Kerry was "swiftboated." This guy could be telling the truth or not. Who knows.

But now's not the time, IMO.

[brewens]

8. I think about anyone in the military would say you'd have to have more than one witness saying that.

Eyewitnesses are unreliable and that was in combat.

[Honeycombe8]

27. True. And there were several who told a different tale about John Kerry. Remember that?

"Swiftboating" him. It was a typical effort by the right to damage the opponent's war record. Unfortunately, Kerry took the high ground and didn't give it more air time by responding much.

It's easy to tell a different tale about someone else's heroics. Who is going to contradict you? The war hero that you are saying is lying?

It's an old trick. There are also real different accounts. The time to tell a different account is to report it at the time. That was done a time or two in Vietnam and in the Iraq War.

[brewens]

34. One of those guys told the same version Kerry did for years until hooking up with

the assholes too. I think there is even video of him appearing at some photo op at Boston Harbor with Kerry. Got the Bronze Star the same day for the same action if I remember right. Everyone has a price.

[Raine]

9. What does the family have

to do with this..

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. The OP is one of my faves. I wonder what possessed him to post this.

I guess I have made my share of eye rolling posts.

[underpants]

18. No regrets

His family was one of privilege. The whole clan is the epitomy of class over merit.

The respect is mutual.

[Kaleva]

10. I think even Kerry would say that Bush served bravely and with honor and distinction.

[DinahMoeHum]

12. +1000s

n/t

[underpants]

17. I doubt he would.

[obnoxiousdrunk]

36. +100. N/t

[JI7]

44. yes, but the Bush family did not campaign honorably and it included attacks

on kerrys military service.

[ananda]

14. No hero

Here's something a friend of mine sent me re Poppy Bush:

if any ordinary joe without ties to an elitist, racist, fascist secret society had bailed out of a lightly damaged plane allowing it to crash pilotlessly killing the entire crew, they would have been court martialed and shot for cowardice under fire. They gave Bush a medal. Read some of the excerpts from The Unauthorized Biography of George Bush by Tarpley and Chaitkin to get the whole sordid tale.

[Ferrets are Cool]

15. +1

[Coventina]

16. +2 n/t

[obamanut2012]

25. "court martialed and shot for cowardice under fire" --- lulz no, just stop

He was a legit naval aviator, flew 58 missions, received the DFC and deserved it. He also completely engaged his target during the mission you and every other armchair combat flyer is ranting about.

Loathed most of his politics and his elitism, but not his service. Just stop already.

[secondwind]

33. Amen... this is not right

[underpants]

28. Pop culture

I always saw him as "The Smoking Man" on the X-Files. He seemed to be everywhere when it mattered.

[WillowTree]

41. Hint. WG Tarpley isn't exactly the most universally credible source about just about anything.

[ananda]

43. Weellll...

Here's some analysis that might (or might not) help.

Tarpley and Chaitkin's research is well documented. If you look through the chapters you can see their sources for virtually every claim. People likely to dismiss it generally don't care about facts anyway. Bush's official bio is known to be largely fictional with much unsavory detail buried, but if people want to believe it that's up to them.

Incidentally, many of the claims in my post didn't even come from Tarpley and Chaitkin. It's not that hard to find the same info elsewhere. For instance, look into The Panama Deception, a documentary narrated by Elizabeth Montgomery about our invasion. That alone shows the guy to be a sociopath, and it's only the tip of the iceberg.

[politicaljunkie41910]

21. This article was written 30 years ago about an incident that happened 44 years previously.

Why am I not surprised Mierzejewski's neighbor who claims to have no problem with Bush, is a lawyer, who wants a 44 year old incident that the military investigated 44 years investigated again. War is hell!! The equipment they had back then is nowhere near the equipment our war fighters have today. In the heat of battle, or a dogfight in the air, a lot of things are happening simultaneously. Chaos reigns supreme. Adrenaline is pumping through your veins, while the pilot is trying to control an already damaged aircraft under dyer circumstances. Your aircraft and crew are damaged and injured, and going down. You're trying to save yourself and your crew. Memories fail. People panic. Bush was 20 years old at the time, and the rest of the crew was probably not much older.

I think its disingenuous for someone who had no skin in the game, and claims to have no beef with Bush, wants to second guess an investigation that was conducted 44 years ago, and have that investigation done by Rupert Murdoch's New York Post, a tabloid, at that.

FTR, I served in the US Army beginning when I was just 18, which was pretty close to the 20 year old Bush's age when his incident occurred. There but for the grace of God could have been me or my brother, who also served.

[underpants]

23. Just clipping some wings

That's all.

[EllieBC]

37. Sure. In your own head.

Whatever gets you happy.

[renate]

39. Thank you. It's deeply unfair to criticize what a 20-year-old did in the middle of a battle

If this is even true, my heart goes out to GHWB for what he must have felt afterwards. I absolutely refuse to say anything critical about a young man who was genuinely trying to serve his country and may or may not have made an honest mistake.

[MadDAsHell]

24. Agreed. Anyone who isn't a registered and voting Democrat can go to hell.

And that goes for politicians and non-politicians.

[obamanut2012]

26. Shocked and disappointed to see this from you

He was a legit naval aviator, flew 58 missions, received the DFC and deserved it. He also completely engaged his target during the mission you and every other armchair combat flyer is ranting about.

Loathed most of his politics and his elitism, but not his service. Just stop already. Attack GHW Bush for legitimate reasons.

[underpants]

29. Background

I appreciate your response.

I just wanted to point out his actual failure. Nothing nefarious or murky, actual consequences.

That's it.

[Stonepounder]

31. Sorry, just don't think this is an appropriate post for today.

Awhile back, sure.
Sometime in the future, find.
Just not right now.

[elmac]

35. We could take the high road

but where has the high road taken us the last decade or more, a country ruled by corporate greed and fascism. All gloves are off.

[BannonsLiver]

40. Yeah

Because slurring a deceased, generally popular (data backs that up, btw) ex president is really gonna move the needle politically for Dems. What a great hill to die on.

Jesus H Christ on a popsicle stick thank god people like Tom Perez and Nancy Pelosi are guiding this ship. God help us if they were not.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

32. My uncle Bob, who was a navigator

in the Army Air Corps during WW2 always said George Bush was not who he said he was. This bail out story didn't ring true with him either.......

[GulfCoast66]

38. This is bullshit.

My uncle, who I idolized flew as a tail gunner on an Avenger. In his later years he shared his newspaper clippings, awards(only one I remember is the Purple Heart) and detailed stories if his service. His Son(my cousin) is still jealous because he did not hear the stories. But I was younger and by this time my uncle was old. Ready to talk, I guess.

He loved the Avenger but told me it was a death trap for all but the pilot. In a sea landing my uncle would be instantly killed due to the compression of his compartment on the water. The turret gunner would not get out in air or sea. He was pretty well trapped. Even the Navigator compartment was tight. The pilot...easy peasy. And my uncle thought it was intentional. Pilots were valuable. Gunners not so much. And he was fine with that. None of the expected to return. They were there to help the US defeat Japan.

Remember, in that war returning with your crew safe was not a priority. The mission was what mattered. And aborting a mission to save the crew would get a pilot brought up on charges.

Finally, if 20 year old Lt Bush, flying a burning plane was only concerned with his own life, a sea landing would have been way preferable to bailing out in a parachute which is really dicey. Especially into the ocean.

I heard all this from a man who was there.

The hard core right always hated Bush. It just takes a trip to Freeperville to prove this. These stories about him costing the life of his crew were early attempts at Swiftboating. By 2004 they had perfected it.

I do not like what Bush became. But the man Flew 58 combat missions off an aircraft carrier in a primitive, underpowered plane. The attacks on his war record are no different that Trumps attacks on McCain and are unbecoming for democrats.

[WillowTree]

42. "........the two men could have been saved, if they were still alive."

That's a mighty big "if" right there. What credible evidence does Mr. Mierzejewski present to the effect that they were, in fact, still alive? And exactly who is he to second guess the actions of the young man who was in that plane after it was hit?

Has "no problem with Bush" my ass.