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Roland99

(53,342 posts)
Sat Dec 1, 2018, 01:24 PM Dec 2018

Neil DeGrasse Tyson?? No.

https://www.wftv.com/news/trending-now/neil-degrasse-tyson-sexual-misconduct-investigated-bynational-geographic-fox/881212344
In a story published Thursday in Patheos, a nondenominational, nonpartisan news service, two women accused Tyson of sexual misconduct. Dr. Katelyn N. Allers of Bucknell University claims that he groped her at an afterparty in 2009. The other woman, Ashley Watson, said that Tyson made inappropriate sexual advances and was forced to quit her job.

Tchiya Amet claimed that Tyson had drugged and raped her in 1984. Patheos published that allegation on Nov. 8. She also made the claim in 2014 in a blog post.

Fox Broadcasting, which is a majority owner of National Geographic Television, issued a statement on the new allegations:

“We have only just become aware of the recent allegations regarding Neil deGrasse Tyson. We take these matters very seriously and we are reviewing the recent reports.”
45 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Neil DeGrasse Tyson?? No. (Original Post) Roland99 Dec 2018 OP
I sure hope this isn't true. The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2018 #1
me too Demovictory9 Dec 2018 #26
I cancelled my membership and two gift subscriptions to National Geographic when Murdoch bought it Glorfindel Dec 2018 #2
Falling under Disney now Roland99 Dec 2018 #23
😫🥺 LakeArenal Dec 2018 #3
I second this.... Heartstrings Dec 2018 #8
3rded (nt) mr_lebowski Dec 2018 #22
The rape allegation has been around a while and is not credible Loki Liesmith Dec 2018 #4
I hear about this years ago, not credible..don't why folks are trying to resurrect it again.. HipChick Dec 2018 #7
The other allegations are new Loki Liesmith Dec 2018 #19
From the Amet blog post 2014: superpatriotman Dec 2018 #5
Boy, I have no idea what happened but that woman is a mess. nolabear Dec 2018 #10
"Groping" and "Inappropriate Sexual Advances" are pretty generalized terms ... mr_lebowski Dec 2018 #6
Read her blog Loki Liesmith Dec 2018 #20
nope...not gonna even give it a thought.... samnsara Dec 2018 #9
I find this very hard to believe peggysue2 Dec 2018 #11
He certainly seems to have trouble with boundaries. WhiskeyGrinder Dec 2018 #12
I'm not a big fan of NDT Merlot Dec 2018 #14
Totally agree with you about his realmirage Dec 2018 #17
The problem is that, to a scientist, 'religion' has absolutely NO answers ... mr_lebowski Dec 2018 #24
That was a goddamned fantastic post. Codeine Dec 2018 #31
You rock too, C! mr_lebowski Dec 2018 #34
You are edhopper Dec 2018 #35
Not quite, but I'm definitely an adherent of Dudeism ... (nt) mr_lebowski Dec 2018 #36
Well, you know man, edhopper Dec 2018 #37
If you want to condescendingly realmirage Dec 2018 #40
There are ways to test religious assertions. Blue_true Dec 2018 #42
Confidence in knowledge... N_E_1 for Tennis Dec 2018 #28
We weren't talking about knowledge realmirage Dec 2018 #38
I get annoyed with him during interviews too, but I DO know the reason Polybius Dec 2018 #39
The GOP thinks it has a new weapon where all it takes is an accusation elocs Dec 2018 #13
Very disturbing that some people in this thread realmirage Dec 2018 #15
I've never heard Tyson claim allegiance to or membership in a political party misanthrope Dec 2018 #21
His attacks on trump tell you what you need to know realmirage Dec 2018 #41
So his dislike of Trump's incuriosity and anti-science stance misanthrope Dec 2018 #43
Have you researched it? realmirage Dec 2018 #44
My post said "I have never heard Tyson - " misanthrope Dec 2018 #45
Neil deGrasse Tyson Accused Of Sexual Misconduct Baclava Dec 2018 #16
After Franken, I take all these "sudden" recollections in a grain of salt question everything Dec 2018 #18
Yea, but it's the same old characters here that will come after you. LakeArenal Dec 2018 #25
Seriously the rape allegation is just bananas Loki Liesmith Dec 2018 #27
Oh my. Uhhh. Wow. Roland99 Dec 2018 #29
Neil has posted a long response on FB Roland99 Dec 2018 #30
I'm glad he posted this peggysue2 Dec 2018 #32
I believe Dr. Tyson unless other evidence is provided grantcart Dec 2018 #33

Glorfindel

(9,730 posts)
2. I cancelled my membership and two gift subscriptions to National Geographic when Murdoch bought it
Sat Dec 1, 2018, 01:32 PM
Dec 2018

I wouldn't believe anything published in that Nazi-owned rag nor anything reported on the "news" service that owns it.

LakeArenal

(28,820 posts)
3. 😫🥺
Sat Dec 1, 2018, 01:33 PM
Dec 2018

He’s very beloved by atheists. And very hated by right wing nut job smear campaigners so..... I’ll take my time.

Loki Liesmith

(4,602 posts)
19. The other allegations are new
Sat Dec 1, 2018, 03:41 PM
Dec 2018

And amount to creepy behavior if true. But that’s a big if. I expect some solid proof if they want me to sign on to some kind of sanction for the man.

superpatriotman

(6,249 posts)
5. From the Amet blog post 2014:
Sat Dec 1, 2018, 01:38 PM
Dec 2018

" I wen to his apartment to visit like I did almost everyday. He was like my big brother, or so I thought. He offered me a glass of water. I accepted a liquid in a cup made out of a coconut shell. I recall coming back to consciousness briefly, then next thing I remember is seeing him in the hallway the next day."

The rest is so out there I couldn't bring myself to post it, but here you go:

https://tchiya.wordpress.com/2014/10/08/end-the-silence-end-the-violence-chapter-6-austin-texas-1983-1984-the-blue-lotus-speaks/

nolabear

(41,987 posts)
10. Boy, I have no idea what happened but that woman is a mess.
Sat Dec 1, 2018, 02:02 PM
Dec 2018

Her “account” says both she was unconscious and had no memory and describes what he did. She really sounds a tad on the psychotic end.

 

mr_lebowski

(33,643 posts)
6. "Groping" and "Inappropriate Sexual Advances" are pretty generalized terms ...
Sat Dec 1, 2018, 01:40 PM
Dec 2018

And very often rightfully called 'in the eyes of the beholder'.

Now ... what Ms. Amet is claiming happened ... that's something else entirely. We're talking some pretty damn serious accusations here, and I really hope this is untrue, or at the very worst is a case of 'well, we did a ton of shots, and then had sex, and I felt taken advantage of' ... which, while certainly not a 'good thing' ... in 1984, was really not understood the way it is now.

This to me is a gut-punch ... a lot like Bill Cosby, TBH. Though THAT case was overwhelming, there was just TOO MANY women to possibly reckon that it was something unfair against him.

At this point, I'm reserving judgement, but if women start coming out the proverbial woodwork ... man ... that'll be SOOOO friggin' disappointing.

samnsara

(17,622 posts)
9. nope...not gonna even give it a thought....
Sat Dec 1, 2018, 01:58 PM
Dec 2018

...Im so sick of these allegations. I take classes at the local Sr Center and there are quite a few very elderly folks there. One of my favorites is a 93 yr old widower..WWll and Korean War Vet..same age and service as my own father. He comes there alone everyday.. drives himself everywhere. He came up behind me and put his cold hands on my neck the other day ( it was coooold outside)..then he quickly withdrew and said 'Oh I hope I didnt offend you!' How sad that maybe perhaps there was someone who would have found that offensive and made a huge friggen deal about it. He would have been horrified. I reassured him that nothing he does is offensive and then started joking about his cold hands means warm heart etc.

peggysue2

(10,832 posts)
11. I find this very hard to believe
Sat Dec 1, 2018, 02:04 PM
Dec 2018

I smell a take down because Tyson is dismissive of Republican/Trumpy bullshit.

I have no problem with women having a voice but I suspect the MeToo movement has infiltrators, chaos agents who merely wish to bring people down for their own amusement and ulterior motives.

Think Al Franken. Then think again about these accusations regarding Neil DeGrasse Tyson.

Merlot

(9,696 posts)
14. I'm not a big fan of NDT
Sat Dec 1, 2018, 02:22 PM
Dec 2018

Not sure what you're referencing about trouble with boundaries, but when ever I see him on interviews I get annoyed. Not really sure why, he just seems to walk all over other peoples opinions. He uses his knowledge of science to put down other people who don't see exactly as he does. I'm not religious, but still find his pestering of religious people tiresome.

Being annoyed with someones persona is a far cry from believing rape allegations. I do see how he would be a target for the right.

 

realmirage

(2,117 posts)
17. Totally agree with you about his
Sat Dec 1, 2018, 02:36 PM
Dec 2018

arrogance on religious matters. As if any human being has the proven answers to the ultimate mystery of life. Humility is rare and keeps the mind open to reality. Ego cripples intelligence.

 

mr_lebowski

(33,643 posts)
24. The problem is that, to a scientist, 'religion' has absolutely NO answers ...
Sat Dec 1, 2018, 04:16 PM
Dec 2018

To a scientist, it's no different to say 'God created life on Earth' than it is to say "An Eternal Being, who happens to be a Martian Named 'Ajax', and who now lives on the dark side of Earth's moon, shot his beam of anti-matter at the Planet ... and then life sprung forth".

All of religions 'hypotheses' are non-testable, random, 'made-up', and entirely a function of the current societal paradigm in which they spring forth. 4,000 years ago, in Egypt, it was 'Amon-Ra' who was responsible for life on the Planet ... to the Greeks it was Zeus, or whoever ... why exactly should ANY rational person ... give ANY CREDENCE whatsoever to the notion that magical sky creatures created life on Earth out of nothingness, or through their magical powers?

There's NO evidence for it, there's NO way to test for it, and frankly there's NO reason to actually believe that.

I'm sorry, but our current lack of a complete 'understanding' of 'how life came to be' is in NO WAY anything approaching any sort of proof ... of magical sky creatures being responsible for it.

That's a gobbledygook assertion, basically.

I would bet that we actually synthesize something very close to 'life', in a laboratory ... within (many of) our lifetimes.

Because Life? It's just very complex chemistry, and physics ... with no magic. I'm sorry, but that WILL BE 'the answer'. Because it has to be. You may call such a supposition 'arrogance' ... but a scientist calls it simple deduction, based on ALL available evidence.

 

realmirage

(2,117 posts)
40. If you want to condescendingly
Sun Dec 2, 2018, 12:10 AM
Dec 2018

push your atheist views as though they’re fact and that the religions of the world contain no basic truths concerning reality, do it in the atheist group. That’s not what this thread is for.

By the way I’ve always gotten a chuckle out of Richard Dawkins’ fantasy about the source of life on earth, that aliens “designed a form of life that they seeded onto... perhaps this... this planet.”

Or he could just say unicorns did it or a spaghetti monster. In the end everyone is full of shit. No one knows.

Like I said though, that’s not for this thread.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
42. There are ways to test religious assertions.
Sun Dec 2, 2018, 01:17 AM
Dec 2018

Fossils of early humans exist that are millions of years old, according to the bible, the earth is about 6,000 years old.

Here is what I think happened. When people learned to write prose, they starting making stuff up to explain nature that was happening around them. A lot of biblical stories are of God smiting enemies of one of god's chosen people. The ancient Greeks and others had gods that played favorites and withdrew favor if not appeased with sacrifices (worship). Gods in Greek mythology often had sex with earthbound women to produce special children (not exactly like the story of Jesus, but pretty close). Several religions before Christianity and Islam had a God and an earthly born son of that God that was sacrificed.

I don't buy the atheist line that somehow there is no higher intelligence, a long look at nature says there is likely a higher intelligence, but it's doubtful that it's a vengeful God that demands worship. Of course NONE of us, and that is EVERYONE won't know until we die, if then.

But people have to believe something. Can you imagine if we find out that we are just here with no real important reason why we exist? So, although I don't see what they believe, I am ok with religious people, as long as they give me my space.

N_E_1 for Tennis

(9,734 posts)
28. Confidence in knowledge...
Sat Dec 1, 2018, 05:54 PM
Dec 2018

Is sometimes mistaken for arrogance. Especially by those who disagree with the premise.

Not saying this applies to you personally, it is a general observation.

Polybius

(15,437 posts)
39. I get annoyed with him during interviews too, but I DO know the reason
Sun Dec 2, 2018, 12:06 AM
Dec 2018

He thinks everything is a joke. He can't even answer a question without trying to be funny with a stupid response. If I hear his stupid "I'm not authorized to answer that" answer again when asked about UFO's, I think I'll scream.

elocs

(22,582 posts)
13. The GOP thinks it has a new weapon where all it takes is an accusation
Sat Dec 1, 2018, 02:15 PM
Dec 2018

of sexual assault or sexual misconduct by a woman to destroy a man's career.
Except that they don't know what we know, that no man on the Left is capable of committing any sexual misconduct or assault, but every Republican accused is guilty automatically.

 

realmirage

(2,117 posts)
15. Very disturbing that some people in this thread
Sat Dec 1, 2018, 02:24 PM
Dec 2018

are already dismissing the accusers before there’s even been a god damn investigation. Really stupid to use it as an excuse to attack the metoo movement and then write the whole thing off because tyson’s a Democrat. Justice sees no party. Innocent until proven but that doesnt mean you decide the case in his favor either after reading a short article. If these were your sisters you’d take this shit more seriously.

misanthrope

(7,418 posts)
21. I've never heard Tyson claim allegiance to or membership in a political party
Sat Dec 1, 2018, 03:47 PM
Dec 2018

When people have tried to hem in the science educator about such, he usually sidesteps it by deferring to science above politics.

misanthrope

(7,418 posts)
43. So his dislike of Trump's incuriosity and anti-science stance
Sun Dec 2, 2018, 01:34 AM
Dec 2018

automatically makes Tyson a Democrat? I don't believe the world is binary. "Beware the tyranny of either/or."

Tyson can stand against those who damage or discredit science without pledging allegiance to a specific party.

misanthrope

(7,418 posts)
45. My post said "I have never heard Tyson - "
Sun Dec 2, 2018, 02:32 AM
Dec 2018

I've heard him refuse to get sucked into this on several occasions. The most recent time I heard someone try to pigeonhole him was Nov. 30, 2018 when he appeared on Firing Line with Margaret Hoover. He performed the same sidestep he usually does.

Tyson's aim is to be a science educator. He voices opinions on policies and tactics that harm science or critical thought. He offers observations on movements and trends. I've yet to hear him say, "I'm a Democrat." I doubt I ever will hear him say such a thing because it would affect his efficacy as a science educator.

 

Baclava

(12,047 posts)
16. Neil deGrasse Tyson Accused Of Sexual Misconduct
Sat Dec 1, 2018, 02:24 PM
Dec 2018

Renowned astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson is reportedly being investigated by the companies behind his show “Cosmos” after being accused of sexual misconduct.

Two women claimed deGrasse Tyson acted inappropriately during personal interactions. In one, Katelyn Allers, an associate professor of astronomy and physics at Bucknell University in Pennsylvania, claimed Tyson inappropriately touched her in 2009 while admiring a space tattoo on her upper left arm.

Another woman, Ashley Watson, claimed that she quit a position as Tyson's assistant due to inappropriate sexual advances.

Those claims follow an earlier allegation by musician Tchiya Amet, who claimed Tyson raped her while both attended graduate school.

https://www.space.com/42606-fox-cosmos-investigate-claims-against-neil-degrasse-tyson.html

question everything

(47,487 posts)
18. After Franken, I take all these "sudden" recollections in a grain of salt
Sat Dec 1, 2018, 02:41 PM
Dec 2018

And, yes, I know that many here will come after me as they did when I posted about Cosby but any woman who is going to a man's room expecting to recite Shakespeare cannot be that naive.

LakeArenal

(28,820 posts)
25. Yea, but it's the same old characters here that will come after you.
Sat Dec 1, 2018, 05:31 PM
Dec 2018

Just like it’s the same old characters here that want to wait to see if these allegations from 2014 about an alleged episode in 1984 have any credibility.

Roland99

(53,342 posts)
30. Neil has posted a long response on FB
Sat Dec 1, 2018, 10:24 PM
Dec 2018
On Being Accused
4 HOURS AGO · PUBLIC
For a variety of reasons, most justified, some unjustified, men accused of sexual impropriety in today’s “me-too” climate are presumed to be guilty by the court of public opinion. Emotions bypass due-process, people choose sides, and the social media wars begin.
In any claim, evidence matters. Evidence always matters. But what happens when it’s just one person’s word against another’s, and the stories don’t agree? That’s when people tend to pass judgment on who is more credible than whom. And that’s when an impartial investigation can best serve the truth – and would have my full cooperation to do so.
I’ve recently been publically accused of sexual misconduct. These accusations have received a fair amount of press in the past forty-eight hours, unaccompanied by my reactions. In many cases, it’s not the media’s fault. I declined comment on the grounds that serious accusations should not be adjudicated in the press. But clearly I cannot continue to stay silent. So below I offer my account of each accusation.
The 2009 Incident
I am asked by thousands of people per year to take pictures with them. A flattering, time consuming, but delightful chore. As many in my fan-base can attest, I get almost giddy if I notice you’re wearing cosmic bling – clothing or jewelry or tattoos that portray the universe, either scientifically or artistically. And I make it a priority to point out these adornments for the photograph.
A colleague at a well attended, after-conference, social gathering came up to me to ask for a photograph. She was wearing a sleeveless dress with a tattooed solar system extending up her arm. And while I don’t explicitly remember searching for Pluto at the top of her shoulder, it is surely something I would have done in that situation. As we all know, I have professional history with the demotion of Pluto, which had occurred officially just three years earlier. So whether people include it or not in their tattoos is of great interest to me. I was reported to have “groped” her by searching “up her dress”, when this was simply a search under the covered part of her shoulder of the sleeveless dress.
I only just learned (nine years after) that she thought this behavior creepy. That was never my intent and I’m deeply sorry to have made her feel that way. Had I been told of her discomfort in the moment, I would have offered this same apology eagerly, and on the spot. In my mind’s eye, I’m a friendly and accessible guy, but going forward, I can surely be more sensitive to people’s personal space, even in the midst of my planetary enthusiasm.
Summer 2018 Incident
While filming this past summer, I had a (female) Production Assistant assigned to me, to ensure, among her countless tasks, that every ounce of my energy was efficiently allocated to the production needs of the show. As part of this, she was also my driver, to and from the studio, ensuring that I arrive on time. In the car we would review details of the shoot and she would help me anticipate parts of the shoot to come. Across the many weeks of shooting she and I spent upwards of a hundred hours in one-on-one conversation. We became so friendly that we talked about all manner of subjects, even social-personal ones, like the care of aging parents, sibling relationships, life in high school and college, hometown hobbies, race, gender, and so forth. We also discussed less-personal topics in abundance, like rock lyrics, favorite songs in various musical genres, concert experiences, etc. And we also talked about food – I’m kind of a foodie, and her fiancé was a chef. In short, we had a fun, talkative friendship.
She is a talented, warm and friendly person -- excellent traits for morale on a high pressure production. Practically everyone she knows on set gets a daily welcome-hug from her. I expressly rejected each hug offered frequently during the Production. But in its place I offered a handshake, and on a few occasions, clumsily declared, “If I hug you I might just want more.” My intent was to express restrained but genuine affection.
In the final week of shooting, with just a few days left, as a capstone of our friendship, I invited her to wine & cheese at my place upon dropping me off from work. No pressure. I serve wine & cheese often to visitors. And I even alerted her that others from the production were gathering elsewhere that evening, so she could just drop me off and head straight there or anywhere elsewhere. She freely chose to come by for wine & cheese and I was delighted. In the car, we had started a long conversation that could continue unabated. Production days are long. We arrived late, but she was on her way home two hours later.
Afterwards, she came into my office to told me she was creeped out by the wine & cheese evening. She viewed the invite as an attempt to seduce her, even though she sat across the wine & cheese table from me, and all conversation had been in the same vein as all other conversations we ever had.
Further, I never touched her until I shook her hand upon departure. On that occasion, I had offered a special handshake, one I learned from a Native elder on reservation land at the edge of the Grand Canyon. You extend your thumb forward during the handshake to feel the other person’s vital spirit energy -- the pulse. I’ve never forgotten that handshake, and I save it in appreciation of people with whom I’ve developed new friendships.
At that last meeting in my office, I apologized profusely. She accepted the apology. And I assured her that had I known she was uncomfortable, I would have apologized on the spot, ended the evening, and possibly reminded her of the other social gathering that she could attend. She nonetheless declared it her last day, with only a few days left of production.
I note that her final gesture to me was the offer of a hug, which I accepted as a parting friend.
Early 1980s
I entered astrophysics graduate school directly out of college in 1980. It’s a grueling adventure-marathon, and many people do not finish the PhD. In fact, it was not uncommon for half the admitted students to leave after two or three years, finding some other kind of work in their lives. While in graduate school I had several girlfriends, one of whom would become my wife of thirty years, a mathematical physicist -- we met in Relativity class. Over this time I had a brief relationship with a fellow astro-graduate student, from a more recent entering class. I remember being intimate only a few times, all at her apartment, but the chemistry wasn’t there. So the relationship faded quickly. There was nothing otherwise odd or unusual about this friendship.
I didn't see much of her after that time. Our student offices were on different floors of the building and we were not in the same classes. A few years later, I ran into her, pregnant, with who I think was the father by her side. That’s when I had learned that she dropped out of graduate school. Again, this is not itself an unusual fact, but I nonetheless wished her well in motherhood and in whatever career path would follow.
More than thirty years later, as my visibility-level took another jump, I read a freshly posted blog accusing me of drugging and raping a woman I did not recognize by either photo or name. Turned out to be the same person who I dated briefly in graduate school. She had changed her name and lived an entire life, married with children, before this accusation.
For me, what was most significant, was that in this new life, long after dropping out of astrophysics graduate school, she was posting videos of colored tuning forks endowed with vibrational therapeutic energy that she channels from the orbiting planets. As a scientist, I found this odd. Meanwhile, according to her blog posts, the drug and rape allegation comes from an assumption of what happened to her during a night that she cannot remember. It is as though a false memory had been implanted, which, because it never actually happened, had to be remembered as an evening she doesn’t remember. Nor does she remember waking up the next morning and going to the office. I kept a record of everything she posted, in case her stories morphed over time. So this is sad, which, for me, defies explanation.
I note that this allegation was used as a kind of solicitation-bait by at least one journalist to bring out of the woodwork anybody who had any encounter with me that left them uncomfortable.
Overview
I’m the accused, so why believe anything I say? Why believe me at all?
That brings us back to the value of an independent investigation, which FOX/NatGeo (the networks on which Cosmos and StarTalk air) announced that they will conduct. I welcome this.
Accusations can damage a reputation and a marriage. Sometimes irreversibly. I see myself as loving husband and as a public servant – a scientist and educator who serves at the will of the public. I am grateful for the support I’ve received from those who continue to respect and value me and my work.
Respectfully submitted, Neil deGrasse Tyson, New York City

peggysue2

(10,832 posts)
32. I'm glad he posted this
Sat Dec 1, 2018, 11:32 PM
Dec 2018

It's something I wish Al Franken had done--an explanation--because it helps to defuse the initial hysteria. I'm also glad to hear he welcomes a thorough and independent investigation, something Al Franken was never afforded. All parties should be heard, details recorded and credibility measured. Only then, can evaluations be made. When we all have a voice and an objective investigation is carried out.

Thanks for posting this.

grantcart

(53,061 posts)
33. I believe Dr. Tyson unless other evidence is provided
Sat Dec 1, 2018, 11:39 PM
Dec 2018

I think he should sue the woman who has assumed something she cannot remember.
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Neil DeGrasse Tyson?? No.