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unblock

(52,313 posts)
Fri Aug 17, 2012, 12:09 AM Aug 2012

a suggested remedy for voter id problems:

could obama issue an executive order to set up a program to issue ids under some existing federal program and budget for, in practice, the sole purpose of issuing id to voters having trouble getting registered in uncooperative states?

i'm thinking, say, create a "volunteer member of the fbi" program where people get a special "volunteer g-man (or g-woman)" id, complete with photo and holograms and colored threads and whatever other crap these states are insisting on these days for voter registration.

the id entitled the "volunteer" to zero pay and zero privileges, and to avoid confusion doesn't even look like any other actual fbi id. or maybe they send all volunteers a newsletter once a year, something minimal if needed to make this program legit under existing federal law.

but it's technically a legitimate id issued by a government agency and would presumably qualify as valid even in uncooperative states.


is there any problem with this solution?

40 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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a suggested remedy for voter id problems: (Original Post) unblock Aug 2012 OP
Votes are gathered and managed at the state level. NYC_SKP Aug 2012 #1
i'm guessing state laws recognize any valid id issued by a valid federal government entity. unblock Aug 2012 #2
a quick google shows ohio and pennsylvania accept any id issued by the united states government. unblock Aug 2012 #6
A federal ID would require soooooo much effort and protection. Not happening. CabCurious Aug 2012 #12
how much effort and protection does the dmv exercise? unblock Aug 2012 #39
Don't forget a Public transportation system across Downwinder Aug 2012 #3
i'm thinking obama can have a rolling bus tour to issue these ids in oh, pa, fl, etc. unblock Aug 2012 #4
Don't you see what a disaster that would become? CabCurious Aug 2012 #19
The REMEDY is for people to get damn IDs and vote!!!!! CabCurious Aug 2012 #5
that's the idea. if the states won't make it easy, let's have the federal government make it easy! unblock Aug 2012 #7
This is the realm of states. Federal entanglement would likely backfire and explode into a mess. CabCurious Aug 2012 #13
all the federal government is doing is issuing id. that's it. unblock Aug 2012 #38
+ a zillion emilyg Aug 2012 #8
Is it worth giving up food for two days? Downwinder Aug 2012 #9
People DIED to get our rights. Remember that. CabCurious Aug 2012 #11
Sorry - what does that have to do with the elderly Ruby the Liberal Aug 2012 #22
Very dramatic, but... there remains no alternative to getting people IDs and in voting booths CabCurious Aug 2012 #24
There is no drama in that post Ruby the Liberal Aug 2012 #29
The 93 year-old lead plaintiff from PA just got her Photo ID today CabCurious Aug 2012 #27
1 down, 749,999 to go. Ruby the Liberal Aug 2012 #30
It's... daunting CabCurious Aug 2012 #31
Perhaps a white board would help in keeping your story straight? Ruby the Liberal Aug 2012 #33
He was talking about doing that in a matter of weeks for this election. CabCurious Aug 2012 #34
Indeed. Ruby the Liberal Aug 2012 #37
I guess I'm lost on this issue? former-republican Aug 2012 #10
Just in Pennsylvania alone there are now 800,000+ who were knocked off the voting list JaneyVee Aug 2012 #15
Funny you should ask. chalky Aug 2012 #16
wow former-republican Aug 2012 #23
No, not "no form of ID" Ruby the Liberal Aug 2012 #17
There are over 750,000 people in PA alone who are in this predicament. Ruby the Liberal Aug 2012 #14
That's a list of ways to HELP people, not a list of ways we're going to lose CabCurious Aug 2012 #28
No, that is a list of challenges, and I will thank you to not use "we" Ruby the Liberal Aug 2012 #35
Looks like other countries are way ahead of us..... goclark Aug 2012 #18
Tell that to the 10th amendment crew. Ruby the Liberal Aug 2012 #21
Its too late for this election, but he could put the wheels in motion for the next bhikkhu Aug 2012 #20
GIVING UP is what the GOP want CabCurious Aug 2012 #26
I mean that you can't get a national ID system in place in time bhikkhu Aug 2012 #32
Agreed. We just can't give up on voter mobilization :) CabCurious Aug 2012 #36
i am NOT talking about a full national id system. unblock Aug 2012 #40
At 1:16pm, the 93 year-old lead plaintiff in PA went and got her a Photo ID CabCurious Aug 2012 #25
 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
1. Votes are gathered and managed at the state level.
Fri Aug 17, 2012, 12:14 AM
Aug 2012

While I think that Obama could exercise some power in creating a national ID, there's no way he could force the individual states to recognize it, and I think there would be a shitbus of resistance to it.

What I'd like to see is him going public with a little outrage levied against things like the PA voter ID ruling.

unblock

(52,313 posts)
2. i'm guessing state laws recognize any valid id issued by a valid federal government entity.
Fri Aug 17, 2012, 12:21 AM
Aug 2012

it's just a guess, i suppose they could have made the law so that it requires and id issued by that state and that state only.

but even if it were the case, giving these people a valid federal id would certainly help build the case in public opinion that these voter suppression laws are crap.


my though of running it through an existing program, such as the fbi, was so that he could do it via executive order, becase the republican house certainly wouldn't cooperate in getting any such thing into new legislation.

unblock

(52,313 posts)
6. a quick google shows ohio and pennsylvania accept any id issued by the united states government.
Fri Aug 17, 2012, 12:25 AM
Aug 2012
http://www.sos.state.oh.us/elections/Voters/FAQ/ID.aspx

Ohio law requires that every voter, upon appearing at the polling place to vote on Election Day, to announce his or her full name and current address and provide proof of the voter's identity.

The forms of identification that may be used by a voter who appears at a polling place to vote on an Election Day include:

A current and valid photo identification card issued by the State of Ohio or the United States government; or
A military identification ("military ID&quot ; or
An original or copy of a current utility bill; or
An original or copy of a current bank statement; or
An original or copy of a current government check; or
An original or copy of a current paycheck; or
An original or copy of a current other government document, other than a voter registration acknowledgement notification mailed by the board of elections, that shows the voter’s name and current address.



http://www.padems.com/content/voteridinfo

What kind of IDs should I bring to the polls in November?

Starting on November 6, you must prove your identity by showing one of the following photo IDs issued by:

The United States government, e.g., a U.S. passport
The Commonwealth of PA, e.g., a driver’s license (NOTE: An expired driver’s license is okay as long as it is within 12 months after the expiration date)
A PA municipality (e.g., city, county, borough, incorporated town) to municipal employees
An accredited PA public or private institution of higher learning, e.g., a student card
A PA care facility, which includes a long‐term care nursing facility, an assisted living residence or a personal care home
U.S. Armed Forces branches or their reserves, including the PA National Guard (NOTE: The ID holder can be a veteran or current member; the expiration date can be indefinite.)

CabCurious

(954 posts)
19. Don't you see what a disaster that would become?
Fri Aug 17, 2012, 01:11 AM
Aug 2012

Handing out FEDERAL IDs?

IDs for the USA is not a thing to be taken lightly.

CabCurious

(954 posts)
5. The REMEDY is for people to get damn IDs and vote!!!!!
Fri Aug 17, 2012, 12:24 AM
Aug 2012

Never, NEVER should we play victim on this stuff... especially with months to organize and get active.

CabCurious

(954 posts)
13. This is the realm of states. Federal entanglement would likely backfire and explode into a mess.
Fri Aug 17, 2012, 01:00 AM
Aug 2012

Imagine Obama pushes some type of quick Federal ID to "help" people without valid state IDs who haven't bothered doing whatever it takes to get one.

Then imagine the first criminal who somehow abuses one of these IDs. SO many things could go wrong with a quickly implemented and easily manipulated Fed ID program.

Good ideas can often rush into the worst consequences.

unblock

(52,313 posts)
38. all the federal government is doing is issuing id. that's it.
Fri Aug 17, 2012, 08:00 AM
Aug 2012

the federal government wouldn't be certifying eligibility for voting or anything like that.

in practice, the whole idea is to facility voter registration, of course, but strictly speaking, all they're doing is issuing id.


i agree that a few criminals will get id, but:
(a) they're already screaming voter fraud anyway and
(b) personally i don't think any legitimate government should disenfranchise anyone -- breaking the law is no excuse to take away someone's vote, especially when a corrupt government has the power to pick and choose who gets disenfranchised.

Ruby the Liberal

(26,219 posts)
22. Sorry - what does that have to do with the elderly
Fri Aug 17, 2012, 01:24 AM
Aug 2012

who don't have current drivers licenses, students without expiration dates on their photo IDs, the amish, people without cars who take public transportation to work, those whose names aren't on the utility bills (to prove residency) and all of those who keep the payday loan/check cashing places in business?

You know - those people who are registered to vote, but ineligible?

Should we just put them in a bus and take them to a military graveyard?

CabCurious

(954 posts)
24. Very dramatic, but... there remains no alternative to getting people IDs and in voting booths
Fri Aug 17, 2012, 01:47 AM
Aug 2012

It truly is that simple.

We cannot just sit and sue. We can sue AFTER we win the election.

Ruby the Liberal

(26,219 posts)
29. There is no drama in that post
Fri Aug 17, 2012, 01:56 AM
Aug 2012

and only someone completely unaware of the situation would post as such. Speaks volumes. When I bring drama, you will know it.

So, we are just fucked, but can "sue AFTER" the election - while 750k in one state alone are disenfranchised. Who cares, right? Its only 3/4 million people whose voices have been silenced, aye? *shrug*

Sorry to disappoint you, but the PA case (at least) was appealed to the PS SC today, and DOJ is looking into violations of section 2 of the Voting Rights Act (poll taxes). Lets hope that you are tremendously disappointed with the outcomes.

 

former-republican

(2,163 posts)
10. I guess I'm lost on this issue?
Fri Aug 17, 2012, 12:47 AM
Aug 2012

Are there people who are legally eligible to vote at 18 years of age or older in this country with no form of ID at all ??

I have never heard of a person like that in all my years of voting.

 

JaneyVee

(19,877 posts)
15. Just in Pennsylvania alone there are now 800,000+ who were knocked off the voting list
Fri Aug 17, 2012, 01:02 AM
Aug 2012

Many other states have also enacted this law, including Ohio.

 

former-republican

(2,163 posts)
23. wow
Fri Aug 17, 2012, 01:43 AM
Aug 2012

That's a hell of a link.
I live in CT in a small town so anyone here never has a problem voting.
At least that I know of.

Now I'm angry

Ruby the Liberal

(26,219 posts)
17. No, not "no form of ID"
Fri Aug 17, 2012, 01:08 AM
Aug 2012

No form of "acceptable" ID.

See #14 - and that is not all inclusive of the issues.

Specific to PA, in many cities like Philadelphia, it is entirely possible to live ones life on public transportation, with no utilities in one's name to prove residency. In addition, people like students in the state may have IDs, but with no expiration date, they can't use that to vote - meaning they need to vote in their home state as absentee (which they need to qualify for, depending on the state they are in).

In addition, PA has 71 DMV offices, and there are 13 counties without a DMV office. Of the 71, 20 are only open one day a week. Elderly complications on folks who no longer drive?

How many people do you know who can take a day from work to go to the DMV for hours on end (business hours, in cases, only one day a week) in order to get an ID - noting that these people are likely the ones to have no car/driver's license?

Do you think corner Payday Loan/Check Cashing places exist for 3 customers a month?

Ruby the Liberal

(26,219 posts)
14. There are over 750,000 people in PA alone who are in this predicament.
Fri Aug 17, 2012, 01:01 AM
Aug 2012

Some whose name is different on the voter rolls than their ID (middle names, maiden names, etc - used on one but not the other)

Some who have ID, but is expired (elderly drivers licenses)

Some without access to a birth certificate (home births)

Some with photo ID, but no expiration date (student IDs, elderly, military, etc...)

Some with birth certificate, but no proof of residence (no name on the lease, no name on the utility bills)

Some whose religious beliefs prohibit the taking of photos (Amish)

So how do you propose identifying these folks, educating them AND getting them 'certified' for identification, get them to where they need to be, with all documentation, and get them the ID that the state requires?

I appreciate what you are saying - and am open to any and all options that you may have on this.

Ruby the Liberal

(26,219 posts)
35. No, that is a list of challenges, and I will thank you to not use "we"
Fri Aug 17, 2012, 02:05 AM
Aug 2012

You and I are not on the same side of the political aisle.

bhikkhu

(10,722 posts)
20. Its too late for this election, but he could put the wheels in motion for the next
Fri Aug 17, 2012, 01:14 AM
Aug 2012

A national ID card is a no-brainer.

bhikkhu

(10,722 posts)
32. I mean that you can't get a national ID system in place in time
Fri Aug 17, 2012, 02:00 AM
Aug 2012

...not for this election. Besides all the actual physical work, you'd have to have integrate it at the state level as well, and trying to get all that done in a matter of weeks would lead to a big fat mess, rather than a good election.

I still expect Obama to win this one, and getting out the vote in the greatest possible numbers is the best way to do that. They can shave off a percent here or there, but (as in 2008) its hard for them to turn around a drubbing.

unblock

(52,313 posts)
40. i am NOT talking about a full national id system.
Fri Aug 17, 2012, 01:33 PM
Aug 2012

i'm certainly not talking about an id issued for EVERYONE in the country, nor am i talking about hooking up databases or anything like that.

i'm ONLY talking about issuing ids for those who want one. they get a photo id that was issued from a united state government agency and therefore is valid id for voting purposes (at least in ohio and pennsylvania, i checked, above).

that's it.

i'm also thinking about using an existing program in part to avoid congressional opposition and also in order to roll it out asap.

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