Franken scandal haunts Gillibrand's 2020 chances

[workinclasszero]

‘Let me tell you how strongly I felt about it — I didn’t even vote for her in the recent election. I left it blank,’ said one top donor.

By NATASHA KORECKI and LAURA NAHMIAS 11/26/2018 05:10 AM EST

Just a month after Al Franken formally resigned from the Senate amid sexual misconduct allegations, the former senator met with an intimate group of Bay Area supporters at the home of major Democratic Party financiers Mary and Steve Swig.

As Franken and his wife, Franni Bryson, made the rounds thanking supporters in the philanthropists’ San Francisco home at the February 2018 event, the conversation broke off into another subject: Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand. The New York Democrat had, in their opinion, pulled the rug out from under Franken, a senator beloved by the group, forcing him out without any real vetting of the allegations facing him.

“It was said not in front of Al to impress him; it was said privately in a corner. A group of us were standing there talking about it. He was one of our best weapons against this administration, his presence on these committees.

[Gillibrand] did the damage that Republicans could not do themselves,” one of the attendees told POLITICO. “There were other people at this event who were saying the same thing. They said, ‘Absolutely, I will never do anything for her.’”

Today, nearly a year after Gillibrand led the charge in calling for Franken’s resignation, the anger is fresh on the minds of major donors across the country.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/26/al-franken-kirsten-gillibrand-2020-1014697

[USALiberal]

1. Good! Nt

[Afromania]

8. seconded

[hurple]

91. Thirdeded

[marble falls]

154. Fourthed. She'll have to be the only Democrat in the primary before I will support her run.

[dae]

160. Second your fourth and agree with your second statement.

[BlueInRedHell]

161. Put me in the same pile of agreement. I don't like what she did *at all*.

[Honeycombe8]

164. Fifthed. I haven't forgotten. Never will. Either she had an ulterior motive,...

or she is easily manipulated. Either way...she proved she is not a worthy leader.

[Amaryllis]

187. Sixthed. I think we are making up numbers but it gets the point across. + a lot.

[question everything]

188. Or, naively thought that this would make her the darling of women

of the #MeToo

Oh, 147th..

[bitterross]

204. Umpteenthed! I'm STILL pissed.

I won't vote for her in a primary. No way, no how.

If she became the nominee I'll vote for her of course. At that point, and only that point, will I vote for her because it will be the right thing to do to vote for the Democratic candidate.

You will not catch me voting for some third-party candidate. It is far too important to get Trump out of the White House. Then he will be completely open to all assaults by all prosecutors and Congressional committees.

[Perseus]

83. Its only good if she doesn't run, but bad because her opponent will be a republican

So...you don't vote for her because she doesn't deserve it, I think we all agree she did a lot of damage to the Democratic party, but then you give the GOP another sit in the senate?

I may feel like kicking her butt, but I definitely don't want to give the GOP another sit in the senate. Hopefully she has learned to not be so stupid.

[USALiberal]

87. I would never vote against a dem! But gladly against her in a primary. Nt

[dhol82]

88. I don't think there is a problem with her remaining in the senate

It’s only when the presidential run is brought up.
If she decides to run she will have a primary push back.

[Renew Deal]

93. She was just re-elected in NY with a higher margin than Cuomo

And she got more votes than Cuomo, so it didn't hurt her in NY. Most regular people agree with her. So do most Democratic senators.

[SergeStorms]

95. Agree with her regarding Franken?

I'm a New Yorker, and I'll never help jeopardize her Senate seat. I will never forget how quickly she turned on a fellow Democrat - without a shred of evidence being produced - and demanded his resignation. In my opinion she goes no further than Senator in her political career, and I'll work to make sure she doesn't. That's my promise to Sen. Gillibrand.

[Renew Deal]

101. There was a shred

It was a photo and you've seen it.

[Butterflylady]

128. No there not a shred,

That photo was taken when Franken was a comedian and his hands were not on her body. His hands were imitating a jester, again being done by a comedian. I've seen many comedians in my lifetime make jesters a whole lot worse than that. So, that proved nothing more than a comedian doing what comedians do.

[Renew Deal]

131. He apologized for it

“For instance, that picture. I don't know what was in my head when I took that picture, and it doesn't matter. There's no excuse. I look at it now and I feel disgusted with myself. It isn't funny. It's completely inappropriate. It's obvious how Leeann would feel violated by that picture. And, what's more, I can see how millions of other women would feel violated by it—women who have had similar experiences in their own lives, women who fear having those experiences, women who look up to me, women who have counted on me."

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/11/16/full-text-al-franken-apologizes-for-allegedly-groping-woman-244978

Just a teeny shred?

[Honeycombe8]

180. You understand the difference between a bad joke by a comedian, and harassment?

That's what we're talking about. A USO tour, where all the entertainers are bawdy. He plays a joke (he's not touching her...he's pretending to touch her), that looking back, is inappropriate.

It's noteworthy that she went on Fox to claim harassment, after Franken was getting national attention for his questions at the Senate Judiciary Committee hearings on Russia, particularly his questions to Sessions.

McConnell voted to oust Franken. Many Democrats followed suit, showing that they actually agreed with the Republican who wanted to get rid of one of the most effective Democratic Senators on the Committee. And further showing they could be played like fiddles, which they were. None of those on the list asking that Franken be ousted are leaders. They are followers, easily manipulated.

As a reminder, here SHE is in performance at that same USO tour. Notice that she IS touching someone inappropriately. Now maybe you can see what went down here by the Republicans.

[brush]

184. Pathetic. It was a gag photo in front of witnesses and a photograher.

No one gropes anyone in such a situation. I repeat, it was a gag photo of him pretending to grope her.

And something you apparently don't know, Lee Ann Tweeden, on that same USO tour, actually did grab the butt of a guitar player on the stage in front of an audience, right after grinding her own butt against him.

Google it.

She works for a right wing radio station and Roger Stone and Hannity and her worked together to put Franken "in the barrel", as Stone said before the gag photo was released as the beginning of the repug hit job on Franken because of his effectiveness at getting Sessions to recuse himself.

Apparently you fell for it just as Gillebrand did.

And btw, not a single so-called accuser came forward the minute Franken stepped down. Strange huh, since so many were regularly coming like clockwork before he resigned.

[Marcuse]

186. Not to mention the grope resistant military body armor.

?mod=1533691913

[Haggis for Breakfast]

202. Let's not forget WHO brought this whole issue to the public:

ROGER STONE, who said 48 hours before the story broke: "I think it's Franken's turn in the barrel." This was a set-up from the get go, because Al was making waves in the Senate and in the news against republican'ts.

I will never forgive Gillibrand. She never even gave him the opportunity for a review. She just pushed and pushed. And we ended up with one less voice in the Senate. AND we now have Schlitz Kavanaugh on the highest court in the country. I don't know if that would have happened if Franken had still been in the Senate.

[Autumn]

193. It looked like he was a foot away, that photo being used against him was bullshit.

[mn9driver]

155. Nonsense smear.

In the context of a joke photo taken with her own camera while doing a bawdy USO show with a bawdy cast where she participated in the bawdy behavior, claims that the photo “proves” anything are nothing but a right wing smear.

[Renew Deal]

156. You should let him know

He apologized for it.

[mn9driver]

158. Because he has class. Unlike some senators.

[Honeycombe8]

223. He apologized for a bad joke. Not harassment. Here's HER bawdy behavior.

Here she is at the same USO tour, rubbing her butt on a man. Bawdy behavior by all the entertainers on a fun entertainment tour to entertain the troops.

Should the man make a claim of harassment against her and get her fired? After all, unlike Franken's joke, she really did touch this man inappropriately.

[SergeStorms]

227. Because that's what the #MeToo movement demanded at the time.

This was the beginning of the #MeToo movement and anything was considered out of bounds by the #MeToo persecutors.
They were attacking anyone who ever looked cross-eyed at a woman. I can certainly understand their zeal, because they're fed up with sexual harassment in the work place and elsewhere. They did go a little overboard in the beginning, though.

Al did what he thought a gentleman should do. He apologized to all involved for whatever he did that was construed as sexual harassment, whether it actually was, or not. That was what the #MeToo movement demanded at the time, lest they totally separate the meat from the bone and leave a bleached carcass in their wake.

If you're basing Franken's "guilt" on those photos and his forced apology, you're condemning every man on the planet to the shame of being a sexual predator. We've all done things in jest, never actually invading any woman's space, that were sophomoric and perhaps in bad taste. Most of us have cleaned up our acts and would never subject any woman to those juvenile acts again. Many of my female friends believe I've gone overboard "cleaning up my act", and prefer the old Serge to the new sanitized/sterilized version. Believe it or not.

Bottom line, I share your concern about some men's behavior and the need to dial back on the off-color jokes and pranks, not even delving into the more serious charges if touching and harassing inappropriately. Everyone deserves the right to go through life with dignity and respect. We'll have to agree to disagree about Franken's intentions and the actions he took to appease the woman who leveled these charges against him. Since then she's been shown to be a right-wing operative, and I believe her actual intent was to do exactly what she did: Get Franken removed from office. KG was a useful tool for the right-wing in those efforts, IMO.

[Honeycombe8]

181. Agreed. He is not touching her. It's a bawdy joke on a bawdy USO tour. Here's HER bawdiness:

[SergeStorms]

224. That's a right wing talking point.

Those photos show nothing but poor judgement on Franken's part. He doesn't touch her in any of those photos. One, where she's "napping" with a flight helmet on her head, is obviously staged. She staged other photos and her "dance" in the show - where she practically dry-humps the guitar player on stage - go much further than anything Franken did. Try again.

[dhol82]

96. If she runs for president she will not primary well in NY

She is ok as senator.

[Renew Deal]

102. You're basing that on....

[dhol82]

103. The anger I see against her?

She is fine as a senator.

[Renew Deal]

104. There is more that goes on beyond what you can see

[SergeStorms]

228. Is that you, Kirsten?

Apparently KG can do no wrong in your opinion. It doesn't really matter. As you can see she's not universally loved on DU, but whether that carries over into the general population remains to be seen. I still think she's a lightweight and wouldn't do well in a presidential run, but that's the beauty of our democracy. We're all welcome to try (well, almost all). You love her and that's your prerogative. She's lucky to have stalwart backers like yourself, and you should defend her if you think she's got the chops to go all the way to the top. Peace.

[disndat]

152. Please give us the final figures for Cuomo and Gillibrand

I, for one, left her place unmarked in the ballot, as did probably many others in N.Y.S..

[Renew Deal]

157. Here you go...

Kirsten Gillibrand*
Democrat
3,729,966
66.5%

Chele Farley
Republican
1,875,530
33.5
_______________________________________________________


Andrew M. Cuomo*
Democrat
3,357,881
59.0%

Marc Molinaro
Republican
2,093,178
36.8

Howie Hawkins
Green
95,864
1.7

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/11/06/us/elections/results-new-york-elections.html
https://nyenr.elections.ny.gov/

[Trumpocalypse]

169. Looking at the numbers below

She got more votes than anyone else statewide. Guess this didn't hurt her in NYS. But that may not be true nationwide.

[LoveMyCali]

256. I voted for her

solely to not hurt the effect of a giant blue wave but I will never vote for her in the primaries.

[Honeycombe8]

165. That's her district. Not nationally. nt

[Renew Deal]

177. What district is she in?

I have to wonder if some people even know who she is.

[Honeycombe8]

179. I forget her district. She's not nationally known. She has kept a low profile...

except that public statement she made about Franken. Which she will ever be associated with.

[Trumpocalypse]

264. Not a district but the entire state of NY nt

[Honeycombe8]

267. Oh, that's right....

[Trumpocalypse]

265. New York State

She the US Senator.

[krawhitham]

114. +1

[trueblue2007]

149. good!!!! She bullied Senator Franken. He is one of the good guys.

[hlthe2b]

2. So, it really is not "JUST DU"....

I think memories are going to be very very long. I know mine is and especially so, given how defiant she is when asked.

[workinclasszero]

4. Nope, not just DU

I miss Al Franken everyday! He was a great democratic Senator.

He should still be there as the democratic party takes back this government, dammit!

But like the story says...[Gillibrand] did the damage that Republicans could not do themselves,”

[Baitball Blogger]

30. +1

[PatSeg]

23. I was thinking the same thing

Good to know that we are not alone.

[brush]

38. The "just DU" argument had no merit anyway since DU is made up of Dems...

from around the country.

[a kennedy]

3. Damn right, and I will never forget what she did.

the anger is fresh on the minds of donors across the country. I'm not a MAJOR donor, but she will not get a dime from me, EVER.

[Kittycow]

5. I'm bitter about it.

My two Senators Wyden and Merkley voted against him. I wrote to Wyden and reminded him how he voted to defund Acorn and it was a hoax. Never heard back.

[NewJeffCT]

11. and sadly

Gillebrand was one of the few senators to vote against defunding ACORN. I gained a lot of respect for her with that vote, but lost some of it when she didn't even give Franken a chance to get an investigation completed.

[True Blue American]

89. Sherrod Brown and I had several email conversations

Over Franken. The only thing I ever disagreed with him about. But after sucking up to the Clintons for years she came out and said Bill should have resigned.

I do not have to vote for her,though.

[Rene]

6. you better believe it does. She's toast for anything in Democratic party

after that betrayal...rush to judgement.

[Fuzzpope]

7. Truth.

She's radioactive for a thousand, thousand years far as I'm concerned.

Losing Franken was a disastrous event with far reaching consequences, all of them negative. The void he once occupied will not be easily filled, and it's her knee-jerk and orgy of self-righteous indignation that is most responsible for his departure.

She should not be rewarded for such a thing.

Further, if she cannibalized the democratic party once, she can do it again the instant it serves her personal agenda. That's the Republican way, not ours.

Trust is broken.

[wasupaloopa]

9. Yes! I'll take Franken back before I would take

100 of her.

I hope she loses to some other Dem in the future.

[mgardener]

51. I didnt vote for her either

I left it blank.

[KitSileya]

146. Are you saying you didn't vote for her in the GE?

If so, you know that that is against the TOS - here we support DEMOCRATIC candidates in the GE at all levels.

[dflprincess]

201. I think the rule is that you don't campaign against a democrat

what you do in the voting booth is up to you and your conscious. Saying you didn't vote for after the election is no big deal.

Even the DFL party doesn't require that party officers vote for an endorsed candidate we can't stand. We are required to not actively campaign against them and keep our opposition quiet - at least until after the election.

[KitSileya]

213. That's bullshit.

If you don't vote for the Dem in the GE, you are not supporting the Democratic Party, and that is against the TOS of this site. Every vote counts. That's why it doesn't matter whether you're in Texas, California, Minnesota, or Pennsylvania - you vote Dem or you own the mess we're in right now fully. So-called "safe" blue states are only "safely" blue because people vote blue, and if someone chooses to vote third-party or leave it blank, they are endangering the country.

[MrsCoffee]

10. Oh Politico....

Another day....another push to demonize and divide Democrats.

But her letter.... sounds just as stupid as but her emails....but her speeches...

Stupid and dangerous.

[Fuzzpope]

15. It's not dividing the party..

Calling a spade a spade.

Hers was a grievous action that should and will continue to be called out, not because we are being manipulated into fractiousness, but because it was WRONG.

[MrsCoffee]

18. Sorry, I'm not one to cut off my nose to spite my face. Seems

a whole lot of people learned nothing in 2016.

[Fuzzpope]

21. Oh. OK..

Hey, great idea, let's elevate this woman to the white house, because it's not learning anything from 2016 to not give her a Mulligan for swallowing a better senator than herself, bones and all.

Let's all come together and turn the other cheek on bad actors, because we won't have learned anything if we don't.

Are you listening to yourself, friend?

Snap out of it.

[MrsCoffee]

25. We obviously see things differently.

I don’t hold her responsible period.

You go ahead and do you.

[Gore1FL]

39. It was her actions. Who else is accountable?

I am not sure seeking better candidates is a losing strategy.

[MrsCoffee]

46. I have no problem with seeking better candidates.

I do have a problem with those who lay this at her feet and disqualify her because of the actions that thirty eight people felt were necessary.

I have a problem with the hypocrisy of those who swear they will never support her yet don't seem to hold anyone else accountable.

The blame lies either at the hands of the accusers or the accused. The entire damage control crew fucked up. All these claims that Gillibrand wanted competition out of the way are beyond the pale. So yeah, I'm done just sitting around and listening to it. The same thing happened with yammering on and on about Hillary's emails and speeches.

It's all fucking bullshit.

[brush]

44. We have several qualified and attractive candidates. We can do without her...

and the bitter divisiveness her Franken baggage brings.

Let her stay in the Senate.

[MrsCoffee]

47. It's not her baggage. Just like the emails and speeches weren't Hillary's baggage.

It's a fucking pile on.

[Wounded Bear]

56. It's a fucking pile on.

Kind of like she organized and drove the pile on that got Franken booted?

[Locrian]

94. karmas a funny thing ain't it? - n/t

[brush]

61. Call it whatever you wanna call it. It still follows her.

She threw her chances under the same bus she threw Al Franken.

[LakeArenal]

67. In my "just DU" opinion,

Gillibrand is the one that created the divide. Not me or DU.
We dont need Gillibrand. She needed us. She chose her road and talks a lot about personal responsibility. Now we are supposed to “get over it”. Gillibrand and several others with “aspirations” have a problem the GOP created for them. Not me.

There are many very good possible candidates that did not Railroad Franken.

I will consider those before I consider Harris, Booker, Schumer, Brown or any name that is associated with the removal of
Al Franken.
The same characters continue to support Al and the same characters pushback every time.

[MrsCoffee]

69. "so I guess I would be voting for a republican by withholding my vote"

That's brilliant.

Much better than my approach.

[aikoaiko]

153. Its there bread and butter.

They'll always have Bernie if nothing else.

[Paladin]

12. Glad to hear it. (nt)

[Mira]

13. They not only hurt them with me,

There is no chance I would support her for that very reason. She blew it badly in my opinion.

[OnDoutside]

14. It's no surprise really.

[Zen Democrat]

16. Her horse won't get out of the gate. /nt

[jrthin]

17. It should! nt

[NurseJackie]

19. Whatdya know? It seems that chickens DO come home to roost.

Franken was railroaded. It was disloyal. He was betrayed.

[Eliot Rosewater]

111. Al Franken, epitome of good husband, good guy, NEVER once touched ANYONE

inappropriately and that is now PROVEN since the worst they have is someone claiming he put his arm around a waist

IDK what a woman Democratic senator is supposed to do in a situation where the media and opposing party lies and repeats lies and as usual has a standard for us and NONE for them.

I do know that if it comes down to her or ANY republican, I would vote for her if I could and a team of wild horses couldnt stop me.

[mulsh]

20. So, run Al Franken for President. He's probably got a lot of time on his hands, He's certainly

experienced and qualified.

The only way I'd ever support the junior senator from NY is if by some remote chance she were got the nomination. Our shared views and passions aside she doesn't appear to be able to control her aggressive ambition. in this case it was to the definite, demonstrable cost to our party and for women's rights in general.

Besides all that I really liked Al Franken, Giant of the Senate by Al Franken, #1 New York Times Best Selling Author. The humility, humor and down right general interest aspects make it a must read. I can barely imagine how we'd benefit from a book about his presidency.

He could even have the junior senator as his vice president if he chose. That would be the only other way I'd vote for her.

[cannabis_flower]

119. I'd like to see..

a Franken/O'Rourke ticket.

[amywalk]

144. I'd seriously love to have Franken run for President. Republicans couldn't say anything

about his made up scandal with Trump as their candidate. It’s perfect. Gillibrand can be his running mate if people want her on the ticket.

[JonLP24]

22. She's fine by me

Last I heard she came out against the Amazon deal. She's right on the issue.

[MrsCoffee]

27. She is right on most issues.

[Hortensis]

24. Her record as a conservative state rep should also.

She's seemed to reflect liberal values as a senator representing a heavily blue state, but I'd like to see how she behaved if it was to her personal advantage to once again vote more conservatively.

Until her growth is proven, her early voting record will continue to weigh very significantly with me, and no to the Democratic Party electing even a moderate conservative president.

[Jim Lane]

214. You're correct -- she was a Blue Dog when in the House of Representatives

From her Wikipedia bio:

During her tenure in the House of Representatives, Gillibrand was known as a conservative Democrat[66] or centrist.[97] In January 2009, Salon.com described her as "an ordinary upstate politician, largely defined by poll-driven issues that fit the right-wing rural district she represented in Congress" and as "a hybrid politician who has remained conservative enough to keep her seat while appearing progressive enough to raise money downstate."[66] While serving in the House, Gillibrand was a member of the Blue Dog Coalition, a caucus of fiscally conservative Democrats.[98]

Since she became a Member of the U.S. Senate, Gillibrand's political positions have moved in a liberal direction.[99] In July 2018, Newsday stated that Gillibrand "formerly held more conservative views on guns and immigration, but, in her nine years as New York's junior senator, [has] swung steadily to the left on those and other issues".[100] Although a supporter of gun rights while in the House, Gillibrand has since moved in the direction of gun control.[101]

You write, "Until her growth is proven, her early voting record will continue to weigh very significantly with me, and no to the Democratic Party electing even a moderate conservative president." I agree with you except that I'm not inclined to give her a "growth is proven" out. I don't know how she could prove anything. Her record is that of voting in the way that would further her own career. Explanations that she now gives would also serve the purpose of furthering her career, so there's no particular reason to take them seriously. Occam's Razor cuts away all except the opportunism.

[Hortensis]

232. A huge red flag is her attempt to criminalize freedom of speech

if directed toward Israel for political reasons. I'm flabbergasted that I completely forgot this little clue to the real Kirsten, but somehow I did. It's back now.

Up to 20 years in prison for exercising our First Amendment right to protest and refuse to support actions by Israel's government? (Which of course is currently mostly controlled by the kind of hard-core and even extremist conservatives the Democratic Party is fighting here.) Why not Russia also? Sawdi Arabia? How about a fast food or hobby chain here in the U.S.?

Unbelievable, and she's not kidding. I just looked and S720, the Israel Anti-Boycott Act, is still alive. In response to failure and huge criticism, she supposedly now supports amendments to her bill, including language that would make it apply only to "companies," not individuals. (A bipartisan pair of senators -- not her -- have now removed her penalty of imprisonment, but leaving criminal financial penalties for refusing to do business with Israel for political reasons, and added that free-speech criticism of Israel cannot be used to launch federal criminal investigations. Good idea, glad they added that too even if the entire thing is still unconstitutional. )

This woman really doesn't understand. The ACLU and other civil rights organizations do, though, and are still on it. She's extremely ambitious and may have climbed very quickly from upstate NY to getting herself talked about for 2020, but if she wants to be president she needs to do a Lieberman.

[MrsCoffee]

29. You obviously have that backwards.

Not one negative remark about Franken.....

Gillibrand and 37 others sent a letter. Yet ALL the negativity gets lasered onto one woman.

Cue the burning at the stake.

[LakeSuperiorView]

40. Seems like someone is not paying attention...

Same old messages, one would think 37 was the answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything.

The negativity, what portion she receives (certainly not "ALL", that's a ridiculous notion) is all in response to one concept - her desire for higher office. Show me one link to any credible source calling for her ouster from current office. Remove the idea of her candidacy for President and there is no negativity.

"Burning at the stake"? Drama much? Contrast and compare to what happened to Franken - he was pushed out of office (undoubtedly eliciting shrieks of "He resigned. it's his fault he resigned!!!" ).

The same old folks with the same old talking points will be along before the mornig is out.

[Trumpocalypse]

105. her desire for higher office???

Show one link to any credible source that confirms she took the action that she did in regard to Franken because of a "desire for higher office".

https://www.thedailybeast.com/al-frankens-female-colleagues-its-time-for-you-to-go

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/al-franken-s-downfall-isn-t-kirsten-gillibrand-s-fault-ncna896876

[MyOwnPeace]

45. Because SHE..........

was the one leading the attack. Funny how people remember those in front of the line...............


Pssssssssshhhh (the sound of a match striking................)

[MrsCoffee]

49. Well then I guess you guys win, eh?

[MyOwnPeace]

99. So,

"we guys win" by clearly stating why this person would not get support should she opt to run? From the responses on this thread I'd have to think that if she were to run she probably would not win. So that would also mean "we guys" did not win, right?

[Proud Liberal Dem]

125. From what I recall

she helped lead the charge on Franken. Which doesn't make the 36 others blameless either but she took point on the effort to pressure him to leave.

[pamdb]

28. Kristen and Al

I won't vote for her unless she is the last democrat standing and I sincerely hope she isn't it. I will never forgive her for Al Franken who was better than she'll ever be.

[MicaelS]

75. Exactly how I feel. n/t

[No Vested Interest]

163. +1. And I felt that way at the time she did that to Al. nt

[still_one]

31. No fan of Gilibrand, but this is typical Politico divisionary bullshit to divide Democrats. They

are notorious for it.

Is this really news, or just to stir the pot?

Very low probability that Gilibrand will get the nomination if she decided to run.

[DonCoquixote]

32. KG might have some good points, but

It is not like she was the most lefty senator to begin with. Can you see how the GOP will enjoy telling how she was a Tobacco company Lawyer?

https://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/27/nyregion/27gillibrand.html


Also, let's be real honest, since the subject of identity has come up, I will be blunt: considering that blacks and browns have saved the democrats again and again, there better be one on the ticket. If Hillary had chosen Booker, she might be president. A gillibrand/centre male ticket will be a DOA.

[asiliveandbreathe]

33. Gillibrand made a whooper of a mistake...regarding Al Franken - we should give

her as much support as she gave Franken....all that we know today..should have been investigated when someone, somewhere decided it "was time for Franken to be in the barrel" - Gillibrand should have known better....

[watoos]

34. It really was Franken's grilling of Sessions,

that caused Sessions to recuse himself, which gave us Mueller.

Every time Mueller's name comes up that's what I think of and say to myself, thank you Al.

[brush]

55. Spot on. Al got Beauregard to recuse himself.

[allgood33]

35. I hope Al runs again. He will win if he does.

[Eric J in MN]

53. If we get a Democratic president in 2020

...then maybe Senator Tina Smith (D-MN) or Senator Amy Klobuchar (D-MN) will join the cabinet, and there will be an opening.

[workinclasszero]

68. If Al Franken ever decides to run for the Senate or any other office I will donate to his campaign!

Not that my piddly amount would make much difference but I would give early and often with a smile on my face!

And I'm not from his state either!

[True Blue American]

90. No

Put Al in the cabinet. He is the most brilliant man I know!

[redstatebluegirl]

36. It should!!!

[dreamland]

37. She's not better than drump, if she's reacting

To heresy rather than get the facts first. She ousted a good person and just so she could present herself in better light, I call It branding. NO support for Gillibrand 2020 here. Nothing she can ever do would change that.

[c-rational]

41. Agreed and thanks for the post. As a New Yorker I held my nose and voted for her. In a few

minutes I will call her office and ask why my enrollment in the nystateofhealth insurance market required a citizenship question. I am now deemed eligible for a Qualified Plan at full cost because I am: a US citizen; a NY resident; and I am not incarcerated. Not a good harbinger with the future.

[eppur_se_muova]

42. Damned right it does. nt

[MoonRiver]

43. Good. I doubt she'll get enough money to even launch an exploratory committee.

[usaf-vet]

48. She will never get any support ($) or vote from me.

She trashed a great Senator who had the intelligence and the intestinal fortitude to stand up to the president and the GOP.

If she would ever get on a national ticket... I will cross that bridge when it happens.

I don't think she can be trusted to do what best for the country but rather what enhances her career.

[Trumpocalypse]

172. Apparently he didn't have the intestinal fortitude

to stand up to Gillibrand and the other female Senators. Just kidding. Franken is a hero not a victim here. He took one for the team.

[DeadLetterOffice]

50. So glad to see we're not attacking Democrats.

JFC people, are you *trying* to do the GOP's work for them?

[MrsCoffee]

52. +1

[Amimnoch]

60. +1

Doubt I'd support her in a Primary, but that depends on who all is running since none are fully announced yet.

Whomever has the (D) by their name in the General.. be it her, Bernie, Hillary, or hell.. if Jeb fuckin Bush changed parties and was on our ticket I'd vote for him to get Trump out of the oval office.

Eye on the prize.. ANY (D) will have my support.

[USALiberal]

124. Really, saying who we think should not run for president is a bad thing? Nt

[janterry]

54. Al needs to figure out a way to stage his comeback

He is still needed!!

[JCMach1]

57. Loyalty Loyalty Loyalty

she didn't need to carry the water for Republicans

[dlk]

58. As It Should Be

Someone who is so weak in standing up for due process, as Gillenbrand was for Franken, is lacking a key quality required for for someone to be a successful president. (There are other Senators included on that list.) She’s also handled the inevitable questions about Bill Clinton poorly, in light of both Clinton’s previous support & help getting her elected to the Senate. I don’t see her as presidential material. I’m glad big donors don’t either. There are plenty quality Dem candidates who stand up for due process.

[TeamPooka]

59. I hope she does not run. nt

[onlyadream]

62. This NY resident won't forgive her.

I said it here before and someone jumped on me like I was nuts. Glad I’m not alone.

[LakeArenal]

150. Never trust anyone who labels you or your opinion:

Silly, nuts, crazy, or stupid.

Never trust anyone who repeatedly comes at you when obviously your opinions will never gel.

Never take seriously anyone who uses the term “Whoosh” or “Duh” to describe your understanding of an opinion.

Try to recognize the ones who always seem to be doing any of the things above.

[Guilded Lilly]

63. Accountability, Sen. Gillibrand. Own it like all the Dems on that hit list.

[MrModerate]

64. I will never vote for her for anything . . .

Because what she did was not only wrong, it was stupid.

Correction: If, despite everything, she was up against Trump in 2020, I'd bite my tongue and vote for her. But I wouldn't like it.

[wiley]

66. Indeed

Ive spent a lot of time and money helping her. Until Franken. FUKC her. She's been really good recently but she will never be President anyway. Being the Senior Senator from New York would be a much better solution...

[Mickju]

70. I have a very negative feeling about her to this day.

I hope she doesn't try to run for President.

[KPN]

71. What goes around comes around.

[matt819]

72. Yeah, she really screwed the pooch

for a presidential run, if that's what she's thinking about.

Some issues are lost in the fog, others not so much. Hounding Franken out of the Senate is not lost in the fog.

[elocs]

73. The question is, if she somehow got the nomination, would all on the Left vote for her?

Because refusing to vote for Hillary worked out so well for us.

[workinclasszero]

77. Yes I would vote for her in that case

But she is never going to get there IMO so it's a moot point.

She should stay where she is and try to do good for the party but I believe she dumped gas on and lit up any presidential aspirations when she Roger Stoned Al Franken.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

74. Good. I hope it does more than haunt them.

[RobertDevereaux]

76. As Kristen and Al said above...

"I won't vote for her unless she is the last Democrat standing and I sincerely hope she isn't it."

Whichever candidate wins the Dem primary will get my vote and my money, no matter who it is.

We MUST take the Presidency from the fascists.

[keithbvadu2]

78. Self-serving narcissist and opportunist she is.

[BillyBobBrilliant]

79. She is already

dead to me. Has been ever since that crap. Totally overshadows whatever good she did for women serving in the military.

[Power 2 the People]

80. +1000

[BlancheSplanchnik]

81. What she did was so anti-justice, so lawless.

She jumped on an Good cause (#metoo) and twisted it with Fear (molesters everywhere!! Al is a debased misogynist!!) and probably self-serving reasons.

[Nitram]

82. I will not forgive her for her treatment of Franken.

[ananda]

84. Agree!

Gillibrand is dead to me.

[Adrahil]

85. GOOD. Karma. NT

[Tarc]

86. Gillibrand did the right thing calling him out, Franken did the right thing in resigning

Have said this many times in the past, will continue to do so whenever this non-issue comes up.

[BannonsLiver]

117. Ah

It took 86 posts in the thread before someone regurgitated this obtuse and silly take on the issue. Usually that happens quicker in Gillibrand threads.

[USALiberal]

121. True, poster must of been sleeping. It was silly! Nt

[Tarc]

133. I'm sorry that you do not stand with victims of inappropriate sexual contact

When the accused is in our party.

Being fair is a quality that comes to you eventually, though. You'll get there. I have faith.

[USALiberal]

141. Neither do the courts before proof and due process. Get it yet? Nt

[Tarc]

142. Franken rendered that moot when he accepted responsibility, apologized, and resigned

He manned up.

Learn from that.

[USALiberal]

143. LOL, nice try! Nt

[Tarc]

145. Reality

Feel free to give reality a try sometime, it's where sexual harassment is take seriously, rater than hushed aside by your old boy's network.

You'll have to find your way on our own though.

To the Ignore list!

[LBM20]

197. The "victims" were Trump lovers and some said he "squeezed" their waists during pics. Total SHIT!

[Tarc]

237. You're awfully busy today denying the rights of victims of sexual assault

Tell me, where did you stand on Dr. Ford's Kavanaugh testimony?

[Adrahil]

207. I'm not at all convinced...

.... they were victims. Many of the claims were overblown or just ain ridiculous.

[Tarc]

238. I'm sorry that you do not take seriously the claims of harassment victims

Is this universally applied, or selectively, i.e. when the accused is someone you like?

[Adrahil]

251. Stop with the passive aggressive BULLSHIT.

I take accusations seriously. I am a survivor of childhood sexual abuse myself. I supported Franken's call for an ethics investigation.

I just don't assume the claims are valid, especially when the claims seem marginal, and some of them fall apart on close inspection.

So cut this bullshit. It's not that any of us here wanted to dismiss legitimate claims. It's that we don't think he should have been abandoned by his own party without a reasonable examination of the actual facts.

[Tarc]

270. Someone is antsy today

Franken admitted responsibility, apologized, and rightly, resigned.

Gillibrand did nothing wrong, she is the subject of retaliation for speaking up. Retaiation is the antiesis of #metoo.

Get on the right side of this.

[USALiberal]

120. Of course both statements are wrong, but carry on. Nt

[Tarc]

132. When I value your fact-free opinion, I'll let you know.

[LBM20]

195. BULLSHIT! It was a load of SHIT and she will never, ever, ever be president!

[LakeArenal]

200. Tell the donors that. They are the ones she needs now.

She doesn’t need us.

[PBass]

220. Donors only get one vote apiece, last I heard. (NT)

[LakeArenal]

254. Same as individuals you debate here.

So go debate with them instead of us. You aren’t changing any minds here.

[Tarc]

240. Do you not see that as a problem? Being beholden to deep pockets?

This is one of the areas where I fully support Bernie and AC-O and others. Rich, white males and their money shouldn't get a seat at the policy table, and certainly not at the "is sexual assault serious or not" table, given many of their own peccadilloes and propensities.

Hollywood isn't the only place that needs to be scrubbed of the Weinstein types.

[LakeArenal]

255. I'm sure Gillibrand needs the donors.

I’m sure she would take money from rich donors.

Been to too many fundraisers to not realize that.

Might not take PAC $ but donors with dollars are important.

[Renew Deal]

92. There is a lot of hypocrisy in the statement about "best weapons."

That's the same excuse Trump and Republicans have used for terrible things they've done (like the treatment of Saudi Arabia). We can't say that we support Me Too except when it applies to people we like.

[Sneederbunk]

97. San Francisco philanthropists settle the issue?

[tammywammy]

98. The dems coordinated and chose her to go first.

Last edited Mon Nov 26, 2018, 02:40 PM - Edit history (1)

https://www-m.cnn.com/2017/12/06/politics/senators-al-franken-resignation/index.html

Women Democratic senators had been talking behind the scenes for at least the past week about how to deal with Franken, multiple aides told CNN. But those talks reached a tipping point Wednesday morning, they said, when Politico published a report at 9 a.m. ET of another woman alleging that Franken touched her inappropriately in 2006, before he was elected to office.

The story prompted a flurry of calls and texts between Senate offices within minutes, and it was decided sometime between then and about 10:30 a.m. ET that the women senators would go public in a show of unity with their desire for Franken to step aside.

"Their patience had worn incredibly thin," said an aide to one of the women senators.

Soon after that, Franken was given a heads up about what was coming, according to an aide to one of the women senators.

They would time their statements so that the first one came from Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand of New York, who's been at the forefront of sexual harassment legislation in recent years. Her statement landed on Facebook at about 11:30 a.m. ET, roughly the same time she started an already-scheduled news conference on sexual harassment in the workplace. She was accompanied by others, like Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina and former Fox News host Gretchen Carlson, who famously filed a lawsuit against her news organization for sexual harassment that was settled for $20 million.

[stonecutter357]

100. GOOD!

[Gothmog]

106. Who is surprised by this?

I was not happy with this stunt and it seems that the top donors were also pissed

[lark]

107. Anger is also on the minds of some who would support her otherwise.

I am one of those. I'm really glad I'm not in her district so I don't have to vote for her in general elections. She has shown she does not have the depth to her that is needed for the leader of our party and I pray that she isn't our candidate for president because I really really do not want to vote for someone who railroads a good decent man for political gain and who doesn't care for the truth.

[sarcasmo]

108. Kick.

[Trumpocalypse]

109. In regard to the whole Franken affair

[Kurt V.]

110. hit piece.

non-story

[USALiberal]

123. LOL, non-story with 100 recs, but nice try! Nt

[Kurt V.]

148. lol. bfd

[WeekiWater]

112. I think it is pretty weak that she would lose votes in a general over it.

I get not supporting her in a primary over it. Don't agree with it but get it. I wish I had her to run in my state. Solid progressive fighter but she messed up with that letter along with a majority of Democrats and an Independent.

[kimbutgar]

113. I will never forgive her for jumping on the anti Franken bandwagon without getting to the truth

Her voice also bothers me.

What they did to Franken was a right wing set up and what happened to the other accusers?

[SleeplessinSoCal]

115. The fact that she is so unaware of the damage is reason enough to reject her.

She's an ambitious fool.

[ConnorMarc]

116. What goes around comes around

I have no tolerance for people who mow their fellows down for their own perceived gain.

[libdem4life]

118. Looking around seeing if I can find a fu#k...

But seems I'm fresh out. Not one.

[DFW]

122. As usual

Our resident one-trick ponies who only show up to bash Al Franken showed up. Not quite as quick on the trigger as usual, but as dependable as the sun setting in the west.

The OP's point remains valid. A Democrat made a lot of noise about charges that were made up by Republican operatives, and tried to gain some political capital out of it. She miscalculated the appreciation and affection the national Democrats as a whole had for Al Franken, and is now paying the price for it. This is as it should be. Asking us and Al Franken to "move on" from this is like asking Valerie Plame to "move on" from what Cheney did to her. She resigned, too, but neither forgave nor forgot. Correctly so. The hand that wielded the knife has access to more knives.

[druidity33]

166. great analogy...

I've always had the highest regard for Sen Franken (I will continue to refer to him that way). Though I'm not sure Sen Gillibrand was the spearhead she sure was the figurehead, and in either case she should rightly hold some accountability for the result of her and her groups' demands. I do hope Al has an exploratory committee, because I think he would be a great candidate....

[Trumpocalypse]

173. So all 7 women were republican operatives?

Does that include the Democratic staffer?

[LisaL]

175. What democratic staffer? Do we even know her name?

Do tell.

[Trumpocalypse]

182. Tina Dupuy

And my error, she was a former staffer.
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/363602-eighth-franken-accuser-comes-forward-after-dem-senators-call-for-his

[LisaL]

221. The one who claimed he squeezed her waist during the photo for which she posed with him?

There is the crime of the century.

[PBass]

222. Some of the women say he grabbed their ass. He did not dispute that. (NT)

[Trumpocalypse]

225. I believe that he did

Which is why he asked for an investigation.

[Trumpocalypse]

226. I think several claimed that.

Of course this no where near as bad as Harvey Weinstein, Bill Cosby or Matt Lauer. But if true it is highly disrespectful.

[DFW]

190. Nuanced question

All of them were either Republican operatives or acting with Republican coaching, and "encouragement." I obviously don't know any amounts.

No account of sexual harassment on Al Franken's part was factual. He knew better than anyone how bogus the accusations were. That is why his reaction was confused and haphazard. He expected his Democratic colleagues to see through the ruse as quickly as he did, and was completely blindsided when they didn't, and, in many cases, acted as if there was basis in fact where was none.

[Trumpocalypse]

205. How do you know all this?

How do you know what Franken was thinking? Do you have psychic abilities?

And as far as the rest, do you have links to prove your allegations?

[DFW]

230. I don't need psychic abilities. Just ask him.

If you have talked to the man and/or his best friends (some of these are very public figures, so no, you don't get to know who I mean, and I certainly don't insist that you believe me over Republican trouble-makers), then you get a pretty good idea of what he thinks/was thinking. If you haven't talked to him or his best friends, then I'd say you are the one claiming psychic abilities. I get my information/impressions directly from the people involved. I'm betting you get yours from websites. If you think I'm making this up, that's your problem. People who have been around DU long enough know I don't need to do that.

[Trumpocalypse]

231. Has Franken said any of this publicly?

Last edited Tue Nov 27, 2018, 08:31 AM - Edit history (1)

Has he given any interviews where’re he says any of this?

I’m sorry but anyone on the internet can claim what they want to claim. Can you prove any of it?

And can you prove your claim that all the women were Republican operatives?

[DFW]

247. You're quite right about one thing

Anyone on the internet can claim anything they want to. I never demand that anyone take my word for anything. However, I also reserve the right to post things I get from "the horse's mouth," so to speak (and Al is anything BUT a horse) if I am told it can be posted without being off the record.

I met with Obama for an hour during the 2012 campaign with the proviso that what was said would remain off the record. I was allowed to publish the pictures (which I did when the WH photog released them), but I respected the rules laid out before the meeting. No one was harassing me for links about that one. I think the last time I got harassed for links was when I posted about Obama's selection of Joe Biden for his VP in 2008. I got the usual "how do you know? LINK??" snarky remarks. But the reason I knew before anyone else was that a couple of Biden's Senate staff let it slip in the presence of my nephew, who has strong Asian features (my brother's wife is from Japan) and looks far younger than his age. They assumed, obviously incorrectly, that they could talk about Biden's selection in the presence of what they thought was a quiet Asian kid who probably didn't understand English well enough to know what they were talking about. If they had realized they were talking in the presence of a very politically savvy 18 year old kid from Langley, Virginia, who was going to tell me half an hour later (and 12 hours before the rest of America knew), they would have kept their mouths shut. What was I supposed to do about all the shouts for "LINK??" Post where I got the info, and possibly lose 2 of Biden's loyal staffers their jobs for making one (admittedly somewhat racist) assumption? I kept quiet about that for years afterward.

I also respect the privacy of both Al and his closest friends as to what was said, where it was said, and whether or not I am allowed to reveal by whom. If that grates, so be it. Like I said, I make no demands that anyone take my word as gospel. What do you want, a photo of me and Al arm in arm? There are no tapes of anything we said, and nor will there be. The same goes for his accusers being put up to it by the Republicans (not all were full-time Republican staffers, I never claimed that, because not all of them were). I don't demand that you or anyone else take it as gospel. But nor do I think that my sources, which I think you have by now figured out (or not, I don't care) are a damned sight closer to (or are) the people in question than internet sites with the opposite agenda.

So believe what you will. That seems to work for thirty million people on the other side who watch nothing but Fox "News," so I'm sure it works for some Democrats as well.

[Trumpocalypse]

249. OK. I can see where you are coming from

I have a friend who is very involved with the DNC. He has told me a lot about what goes on behind the scenes, but I've never related what he tells me because I can't prove it and it would betray his confidence.

[VOX]

192. Couldn't word it any better.

You hit all the points squarely on the head.

[Trumpocalypse]

209. What about all the one trick ponies

who only show up to bash Gillibrand over this almost every week? Or is the objection only in regard to people who disagree with you?

[torius]

126. Why should we give her a pass

for what she did but not give Franken a pass for what he did (or didn't) do? I don't get the logic. It's he who deserves forgiveness.

[Progressive dog]

127. Franken's scandal was not

due to Gillibrand. She didn't make him resign or offer up that weak defense. That was Franken's doing.

Gillibrand just won re-election with 72% of the vote in spite of the attacks on her.

[wasupaloopa]

129. Yes it was/is. Who cares if she was re-elected

by voters in her district? We are talking about the Presidency.

She should have asked for a investigation not condemnation!

[Renew Deal]

135. Her district is NY State

And he had already admitted wrongdoing and apologized.

[Progressive dog]

137. Democratic voters in NY care that Gillibrand was re-elected

which is why she won the whole of NY state (with over 3x the population of Minnesota) so handily.

[UniteFightBack]

243. The district is called the State of New York and we cared thanks. nt

[Tarc]

134. I agree fully, a shame that some of the DU aren't capable of seeing the double-standard

[marieo1]

130. Shame on Gillibrand

Good, I hate her. She was trying to make political points and didn't really care about the truth. Al Franken was a comedian and performer who loves his wife. Shame on Gillibrand. I am a proud Democrat but do not support her.

[Tarc]

136. Perhaps one of the "Shame on Gillibrand!" folk can answer the following

Have Democratic donors also threatened to withhold funds from Chuck Schumer, Dick Durbin, Bob Casey?

[Trumpocalypse]

171. Or Warren or Harris or anyone else? nt

[LisaL]

178. I guess sometimes life isn't fair.

Imagine that.

[LBM20]

198. They were ALL wrong, but she led the charge. Sorry, no excuses for her.

[Tarc]

241. Thus far, Mr. LBM20, your argument style is hands-over-ear, eyes-closed

and "neener neener she bad he good!"

Do you have anything else to offer? A simplistic "the woman lies!" defense is the hallmark of the MRA movement.

[SayitAintSo]

138. Good!!!

Hope she pays for her actions...

[Cetacea]

139. Lest we forget: Roger Stone

https://www.thedailybeast.com/did-democrats-just-fall-into-roger-stones-trap

"...And there are questions about the charge that got the ball rolling. Why did Trump adviser Roger Stone know well ahead of time that Playboy model and radio host Leeann Tweeden would be going public with her charges that Franken kissed her against her will in rehearsals for an X-rated USO tour skit (they are all X-rated) and that she had a 2006 photo of Franken groping, or pretending to grope, her chest over a flak jacket as she slept? Stone sent a heads up to conservative website The Daily Caller about it hours before a story in The Washington Post."





The USO Tour is by nature a bit raunchy and was always spiced with sexual banter.

[Trumpocalypse]

170. Was Stone behind the other 7 women too

including the Democratic staffer?

[Denzil_DC]

199. That would be EX-Democratic staffer Tina Dupuy

You know, the one who objected to Franken "squeezing" her waist after asking to have her photo taken side by side with him.

The one who tweeted some six months after the alleged incident:

Link to tweet

Tina Dupuy
?@TinaDupuy

I met Franken in DC in Jan. I thanked him for legitimizing comedians everywhere. Way to go, Senator!

That one.

Actually, I'm pretty sure you would know this because for some reason you go absolutely frantic whenever someone posts an OP about Franken, and this must have been posted on a thread where you were active before.

Now maybe you can name the six other women who were reported to have made allegations ...

Or we can do a deal. Quit raking up and misrepresenting what a Democratic senator is alleged to have done in the past, and I'll quit popping up from time to time to correct you.

[Trumpocalypse]

206. Yes

No woman ever kept silent after things like this happened with a powerful man.

And I’ll post when I like to fight the rampant sexism, hypocrisy and misinformation in threads on this topic. If you don’t like it, don’t read my posts.

[Denzil_DC]

210. Well, if you're going to try to play Mr. Online Tough Guy,

how about next time, instead of attempting to correct and clarify the record, I just hit alert when I see you spreading misinformation about a Democratic politician - repeatedly, at that - and we can both take our chances?

[Trumpocalypse]

215. No I just rather discuss the issue

And please point out the misinformation. Make sure to provide links.

[Denzil_DC]

242. I provided a link. You didn't like it.

I'm not here to jump when you say jump. See how that works?

"The issue"? If you can't defend Gillibrand (who I didn't even mention in my replies) without repeatedly dragging Al Franklin's name though the mud all over again, you have a pretty weak set of arguments.

[Trumpocalypse]

245. A link to one tweet

which doesn’t discredit her story.

But I’ve asked for links that prove your allegations. Can you provide them or not?

And since things go both ways, can you discuss Al Franken without dragging Gillibrand through the mud?

[Denzil_DC]

250. I'll repeat and clarify.

I'm not here to ask "How high?" when you say "Jump." No amount of links would satisfy you.

Make your mind up. One minute you're proclaiming Franken a "hero" because he "took one for the team", the next you're repeating smears from many months ago. How can Franken be a "hero" while being guilty in your mind of the misconduct you're alleging?

Why, one might get the impression that you're just here to waste my and others' time providing evidence on demand that you'll simply dismiss because it doesn't suit whatever your agenda is.

Where on earth have I even mentioned Gillibrand except in my parenthetic comment "Gillibrand (who I didn't even mention in my replies)", let alone been guilty of "dragging her through the mud"?

What thread are you reading? Because it's not this one. Why are you now inventing an allegation about my conduct? Is nobody safe from your smears?

I'll also repeat: If you can't defend Gillibrand (who I didn't even mention in my replies) without repeatedly dragging Al Franklin's name through the mud all over again, you have a pretty weak set of arguments.

[Trumpocalypse]

252. Apologies

I wasn't referring to your post specifically just generically because it seems that is most threads related to Franken there is a lot of Gillibrand bashing.

I thought you were speaking generically too. But since you were being more specific, please show one post where I said that Franken was guilty. I never have because I don't know.

However, if anyone is going to make claims or allegations; they should be prepared to back them up with proof. Can you provide links to prove anything that you have alleged? Yes or no.

[Denzil_DC]

253. Oh, here we go again.

I'll jump just this once, then I'm done, out of sheer boredom as much as anything else.

How the hell is anybody supposed to interpret your interjection above that I responded to

Was Stone behind the other 7 women too

including the Democratic staffer?

except as an insinuation that there is some truth behind the allegations, with an inaccurate characterization of one of the women thrown in for good measure?

You then compounded the offense by posting:

No woman ever kept silent after things like this happened with a powerful man.

If you can't see the insinuation in what you posted there, I doubt anybody can clarify it to you.

I haven't said anything negative about Gillibrand. I didn't even want to discuss Dupuy particularly, but you brought her up twice in the replies to the OP.

Since, as well as the tweet I posted above, there are screenshots in that Twitter thread (you can click through and call that a "link" if you like) of other positive tweets Dupuy posted about Franken after the alleged event that she has for some reason deleted, it looks like she'd prefer to put the whole thing behind her. If you don't drag her into discussions, I'll happily let her do that.

You're all over the shop. Like I said above, one minute you're proclaiming Franken's a "hero", the next you're casting doubt, if not calumny, on his reputation. You really can't have it both ways.

[Trumpocalypse]

257. But that is not proof

And it is not an insinuation of guilt. Nor is her tweet proof that she was lying, which was my point. No one knows what really happened because we weren't there. But we can't just dismiss her allegation off hand because of a single tweet.

Then there are the other women. Tweeden is a Stone plant or operative. That is obvious. But there are the allegations that all the other women were GOP operatives. Is there any proof of that?

As far as Franken, I don't know if he is guilty or innocent. That is not the point. Because of the allegations, he was becoming a political embarrassment. He's a hero because he took one for the team and stepped down.

You say I'm all over the shop. That's because I don't know everything. I wasn't there. I'm asking questions. I'm asking people to prove their allegations. But this should be about the issue, not about me. And to declare there should be no questions or criticism of the dear leader is just cult of personality thinking that all progressives should reject.

[Denzil_DC]

259. "the dear leader", "cult of personality" Just listen to yourself!

It's utterly absurd, and frankly, extremely offensive on a Democratic forum.

I respect Franken because I've followed his work for many, many years. I wasn't actually that happy when he ran for senate because I felt he was a voice that could do more good outside formal politics. He made that choice, and his performance surprised me. It probably shouldn't have because I knew he was smart, but the way he adapted to the procedures and the impact he had during his tenure were impressive.

I'm not about to challenge every time somebody smears him, but sometimes I'm done with biting my tongue.

What on earth has any of that to do with the chanted slur you're so fond of that you repeat it ad nauseam - "cult of personality"? And now you add another slur borrowed from North Korean despotism - "dear leader". Charming. And you dare to claim the mantle "progressive"?

It's obvious you don't have any inkling of the impact of the words you use. If you think they're persuasive to any of those who don't buy into your own apparent "cult of personality" about Gillibrand, you're kidding yourself.

Done. Boring.

[Trumpocalypse]

261. Let's please discuss the issue

and not go off on diversions.

Were all the women who accused Franken GOP operatives or not? If they were where is the proof of that? Stop avoiding the question.

And having questions about Franken is not a smear. To say so is cult of personality thinking.

[Denzil_DC]

262. "the dear leader", "cult of personality" ...

Now, all of a sudden, it's "Let's please discuss the issue".

Who's diverting here?

Look in a mirror some time.

Call me old-fashioned, but I have absolutely no interest in continuing a "discussion" with someone who's compared Al Franken to Kim Jong-il.

[Trumpocalypse]

266. Don't put words in my mouth

Never compared Frank to Kim Jong-ill.

Let's discuss the issue and stop diverting from it. Where is the proof that the other 7 women were GOP operatives or plants? Please provide links. Thanks.

[Wintryjade]

140. I think this thread and the issue is an indictment how we treat women and girls in our society,

especially when we champion the men. Even on the left.

[Dolly123Jimmy]

147. Dems need to get tougher

The Franken episode put a knot in my stomach...

Franken is a good man But the liberals have to be so PC its killing the party...

We react to the smallest thing in the biggest way...

She turned Franken into Roy Moore,,,

I support the woman's movement But we must think things through before we hurt ourselves...

We lost a senate seat because we had to overreact...and the Kavanaugh thing didn't fair so well...

Gillibrand has to start to hang out with Pelosi and toughen up...

And God forbid she ever got the nomination Trump would give her a name {Krazy Kristen} and have her crying in plain view..

[PBass]

217. We did NOT lose a Senate seat over this! (NT)

[PBass]

218. However, it's very possible that FRANKEN would have lost HIS seat.

Al Franken won his Senate seat by less than 1,000 votes. This scandal could have easily cost him the election a few weeks ago. Instead, a Democratic woman replaced him in the Senate, and she won re-election earlier this month.

[DFW]

229. Let's try that one again

Franken won the 2008 election by less than 1000 votes. He won his re-election to the Senate in 2014 with 1,053,205 votes to the Republican challenger's 850,227 votes. Not only is that a 200,000 vote margin, but he wouldn't have been up for re-election again until 2020, by which time the Republican scam would have been fully exposed and forgotten. The election in 2018 was a special election to fill the seat he vacated. If Al Franken had stayed in the Senate, there would not been an election two weeks ago for his seat, and no phony scandal would have cost him his seat because it was not up for contesting as long as he held it.

[Kitchari]

234. Yes!

Very astute clarification

[roody]

151. Yup.

[disndat]

159. There is another tiptop Democratic fund raiser in San Francisco

Susie Tompkins Buell. Another report of her renunciation of K. Gillibrand's sharp elbows, opportunistic attack on Al Franken.
Here's the link"
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/418207-top-dem-donor-slams-gillibrand-over-franken-ouster-stained-her-reputation
This is a Politico report from an interview with Buell.

[Vogon_Glory]

162. No Support For Gillibrand In The Primaries

I’m still angry about what Gillibrand did to Al Franken. If she got the party’s nomination for President, I’d fall into line, but like so many other good Democrats, I see no reason to support her because of what she did to Al Franken.

As far as I’m concerned, she should forget about the White House and stay in the Senate.

[cp]

167. No chance

Do not support or vote for anyone who collaborates with Republican ratfecking.

[Kaleva]

168. Same can be said for Kamala Harris. As a former AG, she ought to have known better.

[RhodeIslandOne]

174. It's a crowded field

And I'm eliminating Kristen from it without a second thought the same way she eliminated Al.

[LisaL]

176. Yep. She will never get my vote.

[Renew Deal]

196. Never?

Trump vs. Gillibrand... Who would you vote for?

[PBass]

219. Are you also eliminating Sanders, Harris, Warren, Booker and Brown?

They also called on Gillibrand to step down.

[TheCowsCameHome]

183. Kirsten who?

Never heard of her.

[mia]

185. Al Franken for president!

[wroberts189]

208. +1 n/t

[certainot]

189. she needs to lose a primary. but she's not the reason he's gone.

he's gone because democrats let 1500 limbaugh-led radio stations create so much unchallenged buzz about this the bullshit 'outrage' from the r-cons even got to new york senator

that's the tragedy of this crap

[PatrickforO]

191. I won't support Gillibrand in the primary for exactly that reason.

I also won't support Bernie if he runs again, or Harris...for that reason.

What happened to Al Franken was despicable.

[LBM20]

194. As it should. Franken got screwed over bigtime. It was bush league bullshit. And she led the charge.

[pamdb]

203. Kristen Gillibrand

Good.

[doc03]

211. Good I hope it continues nt

[gyroscope]

212. Unfortunately those photos really did him in

You know what they say a picture is worth a thousand words.

You can survive allegations, but when they are accompanied by some rather shocking
photo and/or video evidence, that was the nail in the coffin so to speak.

If it were up to me Franken would have kept his seat, but politically it was not possible.

[fleabiscuit]

216. I will continue to support Democrats. Seems like a DU position to take. nt

[Vinca]

233. It's why I would only vote for her if she ends up the general election candidate.

Will definitely not support her in the primary.

[no_hypocrisy]

235. The irony in all this is twofold:

If the Democrats (generally) had stayed the course and had due process for Al Franken:

1) It would have been proven that the accusations were a hoax and lies*; and

2) Al Franken likely would have supported a Gillibrand candidacy.


* Personal opinion: I'm an attorney and I'm about to go to trial to prevent my client from having her license revoked by the state. A bedridden senior resident of a longterm care facility has about 10-12 accusations against her for physical, emotional, and mental abuse. She has two eye witnesses. And I'm going to prove each accusation was a lie. No, it isn't easy and I'm not being paid to do this. My point: Al Franken had the right to prove all that he was accused of was not true and he was pressured to forego that. We would have had an outstanding senator push back on the Republicans of both Houses and in the White House.

[Trumpocalypse]

269. Do you really think that the Republicans on the Ethics committee

would have given Franken a fair hearing. They would have used it embarrass and humiliate him. The rules of an Ethics committee hearing are far different from a criminal trial.

[Mike Nelson]

236. I would support her, but...

… not for President (unless she wins the nomination). Franken’s behavior was juvenile, but accepted among entertainers performing on those troupe tours... I wish he would have risen above that, but he didn't.

Those Senators knew Al, and they know the entertainment industry he came from... they know the difference between Franken and Kavanaugh.

[UniteFightBack]

244. I support Democrats unless they are corrupt dirtbags period. GET A HOLD OF YOURSELVES. nt

[Hortensis]

246. How do you feel about her bill to criminalize protesting

and boycotting Israel in refusal to support its government's actions? I don't think trying to overturn the First Amendment right to free speech on a select basis would be what is meant by corruption, unless you're including moral and ideological. Note that this bill runs contrary to preexisting law that forbids prosecution of people for boycotting American business for political reasons (like those who refuse to shop at Hobby Lobby).

Btw, her original bill didn't fly too well with her colleagues, Unite, so she was open to amending it. In this latest 2017 version, only businesses and not individuals would be liable for prosecution if they refused to do business with Israel to protest government actions. I believe she mostly was thinking of business in the first place, anyway. I'm not sure, though, how one would have sent a business to prison for up to 20 years (!) and not individuals, but she could probably explain it.

Since then, however, other senators have solved the problem of carting a business off to a prison warehouse without its individuals and kept its financial penalties on free speech intact. Oh, and under the new, amended version individuals associated with a company would be protected from being federally criminally investigated only for criticizing Israel. Imo, that's a valuable limitation. They'd actually have to refuse to do business for moral reasons.

Of course, from Gillebrand's original happy idea to this latest version, the entire thing is intensely unconstitutional and against the principles the Democratic Party exists to protect for all of us.

Google terms: S.720. Israel Anti-Boycott Act. ACLU. And of course, Gillebrand.

[klook]

271. Wow, what a horrible idea. Thanks for the info. (nt)

[brooklynite]

258. I don't think Gillibrand is going to have a funding problem if she runs...

I know many of the major funders in NYC; They may not be supporting her for a number of reasons, but I haven't heard any say it's because of Franken.

[USALiberal]

268. OK, we get it. nt

[lovemydogs]

260. I simply cannot support Giliibrand and this is why

I felt, in the name of making a name for herself and upping her name and profile in order to better her chances in running, she over-reacted and pushed Franken out the door before he had a fair hearing.
As a long time democratic supporter and then a senator himself, a good senator, he deserved a fair hearing.
There have been rumors about this being a set up by the women against him and both they and Franken should have been heard out.
Afterall, look at Kavenaugh.
There was a deep unfairness in this and all because Gillibrand wanted to up her profile.

[Gothmog]

263. Franken Stays Silent as Gillibrand Faces Attacks

Gillibrand will have a very hard time raising money if she tries to run https://politicalwire.com/2018/11/27/franken-stays-silent-as-gillibrand-faces-attacks/

Former Sen. Al Franken (D-MN) “is staying silent in the face of attacks on his ex-colleague, Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-NY), who has been shunned by major Democratic donors and criticized heavily online after calling for Franken’s resignation last year in the wake of sexual misconduct allegations,” BuzzFeed News reports.

I see no need for Franken to help Gillibrand out