Sarandon and Ocasio-Cortez.

[pnwmom]

Wish Sarandon would just stay away.

Link to tweet

[Bleacher Creature]

1. That picture is a full-blown deal breaker for me.

There's no coming back from it. Ever.

[pnwmom]

2. I'll never forget how Sarandon behaved at the Nevada caucuses,

which she wasn't supposed to even be participating in, since she's a California resident.

[George II]

58. I'll never forgive how Sarandon treated Dolores Huerta.

[pnwmom]

60. Yes. Watching her loudly lecture a civil rights hero like Huerta--that should have been eye-opening

to anyone who hadn't already figured out about Sarandon.

[Stinky The Clown]

4. That picture is all you need to know

[SubjectTrip]

15. Oh good grief n/t

[Cha]

3. Nice stupid company you hang out

with, AOC.

[Lochloosa]

8. I agree

[vi5]

11. I'd really be curious to have some sort of venn diagram

That shows me what people are now complaining about and bashing AOC, who spent any amount of time imploring us about we had to be nice to Manchin, or any other conservative Democrats because heaven forbid we hurt their precious fee-fees. I'm going to guess there would be lots of overlap between those two groups.

[pnwmom]

18. You can criticize Manchin for his policies all you want -- OUTSIDE the context of a general election

[912gdm]

9. .

[pnwmom]

10. Constructive criticism of Democrats is allowed. Ocasio-Cortez is not running for anything now.

Nobody has been viciously denigrating her or posting highly inflammatory comments.

People are expressing their concern about her apparent connection with Sarandon, who in the not so distant past made statements supporting Trump.

[vi5]

13. Really? That is the rule now?

Last I checked it was "Don't bash Democratic public figures". Maybe I missed the change.

[pnwmom]

17. The election is over. That is the change.

Alexandria isn't running in a general election anymore, and no one above was viciously attacking her. It's okay to criticize Democrats for their actions as long as the attacks aren't highly inflammatory and as long as it's not during the general election.

Here is the relevant part of the rules:

Don't bash Democratic public figures

Do not post disrespectful nicknames, insults, or highly inflammatory attacks against any Democratic public figures. Do not post anything that could be construed as bashing, trashing, undermining, or depressing turnout for any Democratic general election candidate, and do not compare any Democratic general election candidate unfavorably to their general election opponent(s).

Why we have this rule: Our forum members support and admire a wide variety of Democratic politicians and public figures. Constructive criticism is always welcome, but our members don't expect to see Democrats viciously denigrated on this website. This rule also applies to Independents who align themselves with Democrats (eg: Bernie Sanders).

[melman]

33. So you're saying

it's okay to bash her now because she's been elected. It wasn't okay before when she was running, but now that she's been elected and is officially a ..you know, Democratic public figure... now it's okay. That's the rule?

[pnwmom]

37. You can read the rule for yourself. Yes, the rule is different while Democrats

are running against non-D's in the general election, because DU doesn't want to depress turnout. Outside of that context, non-inflammatory, non-vicious criticism is okay.

[melman]

38. I already did read the rule

And it absolutely does not say what you're saying it says.

[pnwmom]

40. Apparently you read it much too quickly. The rule consists of more than just the title. n/t

[melman]

43. No I didn't

It doesn't say what you're saying it says. As you well know.


This interpretation is made up solely to justify the bashing of a Democratic representative. It's very obvious.

[pnwmom]

44. I posted the actual rule. Those aren't my words. They're from the website. nt

[Separation]

72. Are you just arguing for the sake of arguing?

If it was a TOS violation, this post would be gone. Alert on it if it offends your senses so.

[LanternWaste]

104. You're the only one implicitly arguing the rule says 'bash.'

Hence, the irony in your instructing others "it doesn't say what you're saying it says."

Bless your heart... very obvious, indeed.

[pnwmom]

39. Wrong. That is the title of the rule, not the rule itself.

Here it is again, since you apparently missed it the first time.

Don't bash Democratic public figures

Do not post disrespectful nicknames, insults, or highly inflammatory attacks against any Democratic public figures. Do not post anything that could be construed as bashing, trashing, undermining, or depressing turnout for any Democratic general election candidate, and do not compare any Democratic general election candidate unfavorably to their general election opponent(s).

Why we have this rule: Our forum members support and admire a wide variety of Democratic politicians and public figures. Constructive criticism is always welcome, but our members don't expect to see Democrats viciously denigrated on this website. This rule also applies to Independents who align themselves with Democrats (eg: Bernie Sanders).

[SayitAintSo]

102. I don't understand the rules either

I was alerted on just for expressing an opinion on the level of Bernie hate on this site now that I don't understand. I don't understand what's happened to DU.

[BeyondGeography]

49. Patently untrue

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211424548

You can freely call AOC an idiot in a thread title here. Try doing that to an established Dem and get away with it.

[spooky3]

83. but wasn't that post removed? Not sure I understand your point. nt

[BeyondGeography]

84. It was still there when I posted hours ago

And it had been allowed to stand for hours. I guess I made my point.

[spooky3]

85. OK, so it was removed since you posted. Thanks. nt

[spooky3]

87. Wow. Must have been a case where the jury didn't agree on the grounds you cited

but another jury agreed when another alert was filed on other grounds. I wondered whether that ever happened.

[BeyondGeography]

90. That's good to know

Thanks.

[Demsrule86]

97. It was delete however....thus what point is proved? None in my estimation.

[Raine]

21. Agree

not dumping on Dems only applies to some.

[Joe941]

35. Thanks you.

[mcar]

42. Never seems to apply to Nancy Pelosi

[vi5]

47. Never seems to apply to anyone...

...who represents the status quo.

[George II]

59. I think the subject of the quasi-bashing is Susan Sarandon.

[welivetotreadonkings]

7. Is being in a picture with someone an endorsement of their electoral strategy?

I dislike Sarandon as well, wish she would focus on her issues rather than her nonsensical ideas on how GOP victories bring about revolutions... But AOC ran as a Dem, she has repeatedly said she will be proud to support whoever we nominate in 2020. I can find all kinds of Dems posing with George W Bush but that doesn't mean I hate on them. She is reinvogorating the party and helping push good ideas into national conversation, don't see how that's a bad thing.

[babylonsister]

23. It shouldn't be cause to

hate on AOC just because a pic was taken. People need to lighten up. We have enough to criticize on the other side of the aisle.

[welivetotreadonkings]

64. Agreed.

I think she is one of many progressive members of the 116th congress--particularly women of color--who have a bright future in national politics. Their presence is a wonderful thing for the left and the future of the party. We're off to a great start, frankly.

[Cha]

65. Tell that to AOC

[NurseJackie]

14. Why is she so cozy with Susan Sarandon?

Susan Sarandon was cozy with Jill Stein. She supported Stein and voted for Stein... which meant that she was supporting Trump and the Russians. All I'm saying here is that Susan Sarandon has nothing of value to contribute to the human race. Fuck Susan Sarandon!

[oasis]

22. I wonder if AOC has seen the video of Sarandon dissing Delores Huerta.

[Cha]

66. Or even cares.

[oasis]

70. "Will you walk into my parlour?" said the spider to the fly. Susan's

a sly one.

[JCanete]

92. not sure that was dissing. And it certainly wasn't the bullshit that was being posted here

about her shouting at her. People can be wonderful human beings and still get things wrong, and still be critiqued and questioned on their positions or declarations.

[oasis]

114. True, civil rights icon, Delores Huerta IS a "wonderful person". However,

she didn't "get things wrong" by supporting Hillary. Huerta certainly didn't deserve a lecture from Sarandon who has a history of getting it wrong.

[JCanete]

115. except that the discusssion wasn't about why she supported Hillary, it was about a very specific

claim made by Huerta. nt

[Wintryjade]

30. I imagine a young woman being courted by Sarandon would be a profound experience.

AOC has the opportunity to now to meet a lot of women with such a higher stature to look up to, bask in.

I am going to work, consciously, not pitting women against women. Men enjoy it so.

[Catamount]

77. Agreed

Can we all just get along now.. please?

[Gothmog]

16. I am not a big fan of AOC

Her relationship with Sarandon is a very big negative

[Small-Axe]

20. IMS wasn't Sarandon out knocking on doors for AOC?

Bad Company.

Duh, duh, dun.

[melman]

25. Stay away?

That picture is from last June.

[NurseJackie]

31. Sarandon's Democrat-hating reputation had already been well-established in June.

That picture is from last June.

Sarandon's Democrat-hating reputation had already been well-established in June. I do not believe that this can be a legitimate excuse for being so cozy with someone like Susan Sarandon who is clearly pro-Stein (pro-Russia) and anti-Democrat.

Fuck Susan Sarandon!

[Autumn]

34. Killjoy.Why you got to point out that wasn't a relationship, she met her canvasing for her?

Next thing you know people will watch the video in the OP of AOC admiring and praising leader Pelosi and being all concerned about climate change.

Lets stick with AOC being in thrall to Susan Sarandon.
Bigger sarcasm if needed

[pnwmom]

41. Sarandon was speaking out on Trump's behalf in 2016. No Democrat should accept her support. nt

[Autumn]

46. You are implying a relationship when there wasn't one. What about Henry Kissinger?

Should he be a mentor to any Democrat?

[pnwmom]

48. He wasn't a mentor to any Democrat, but he was a previous Secretary of State.

And a current Secretary of State normally maintains diplomatic relations with previous Secretaries of State.

[Autumn]

50. Alternative facts?

He was a mentor, a valued one. That's a fact.

[Caliman73]

71. unfortunately Hillary said that he was a mentor and a friend.

I understand about the SOS being part of a rare club, but their relationship appears to be closer than just a polite "on the job" situation. The point is that many of the politicians we admire, may have problematic relationships. We are free to criticize whomever we want, but it is intellectually dishonest to criticize one politician for taking a picture with Sarandon and then deny that Hillary's relationship with Kissenger is a problem.

[pnwmom]

73. Haven't you ever said diplomatic things to be diplomatic? It was her job, as SoS

to get along with her predecessor. And that included being on friendly terms with him.

If you haven't noticed, all the former Presidents do that, too.

It will be interesting to see if Trump ever joins that club.

[Caliman73]

76. Sorry but it is more than that.

Why is it easy to dismiss Hillary's repeated praise of Kissenger and at the same time so difficult to accept that perhaps Ocasio-Cortez was "just being diplomatic" to a supporter?

I can guarantee that Trump will NEVER EVER join any club or be diplomatic. He is a narcissist and does not have it within himself to think of anyone but himself.


Look, I can accept that Hillary's relationship with Kissenger is not a defining moment in her lifetime of service. I can also accept that Ocasio-Cortez's photo with Sarandon was just a photo with a celebrity who supported her.

[Demsrule86]

99. Kissinger was't a Democrat who called for Republican Trump to win...that is why. You can admire GOP

appointees ( I don't but others might) and be polite as SOT...not even close to the same. Sarandon helped elect Trump she is slime and no Democrat should have anything to do with her...not the first time either...2000 and 2004 , she also trashed Democrats. I suggest you leave Hillary alone as she is running for nothing. And her opinion of Kissinger is meaningless. So tired of some making Hillary a target when she is not running for anything. Personally, I will never forgive those who help destroy the 16 election and gave us Trump which includes anyone who didn't vote for Hillary. Sarandon didn't vote for Hillary and actively campaigned for Trump. She is unrepentant As I pay my taxes, much higher and my gay daughter is endangered by Trump ...that sort can fuck off. I will never forgive them.

[Wintryjade]

26. Sarandon is irrelevant. I heard a Democratic message, policy, party line from AOC.

Hillary's org endorsed, supported and worked with 9 women running for office, AOC being one. Our Democratic woman are going to do all they can to help AOC and the other new Representatives find their footing and welcome them into their new positions. They are going to strive for and want success for those fulfilling their roles.

I am not going to created a battle. We are creating a caricature for AOC just as we did with Pelosi and HRC that has created so many problems for all of us. We make roles for our women, and we have very limiting ones. Pelosi, Hillary, Michelle all get this.

I am not going to be a part of that.

Sarandon has the same role as so many others that claim the Democratic voice, when it suits them.

AOC has a job to do, and a wonderful opportunity to help people. From what I heard, AOC might be finding her footing. I think she should be allowed the opportunity.

I say today. Who knows in this crazy atmosphere, what will happen tomorrow. It seems to always be something. Or someone trying to create something.

[guillaumeb]

27. I like Sarandon,

as an actress. As a student of politics, she is a failure.


Ocasio-Cortez has not even taken the oath yet. Perhaps we could allow her time to demonstrate what she can do.

[Demsrule86]

100. I can't watch her anymore...like some of her stuff...but the site of her enrages me...so if she is

on a show, I turn it off.

[Power 2 the People]

29. Democratic women should not be bashed for taking a picture with a supporter.

[NurseJackie]

32. Taken well before Sarandon had established her pro-Stein, anti-Democrat reputation.

Taken well before Sarandon had established her pro-Stein, anti-Democrat reputation. Nice try though. Sarandon is a waste of flesh and has nothing of value to offer to the human race (except maybe to the GOP or Russians). Fuck Susan Sarandon!

[melman]

36. Really?

That's interesting.

Because the thing I always hear around here is that Sarandon supported Nader, thus making her responsible for Bush.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

80. No it wasn't

Sarandon went SteinTrumping and Bust in 2016.

O-C's campaign for Congress and the photo came after.

[NurseJackie]

93. Actually...

... I was referring to the Sarandon photo with Hillary.

[George II]

57. What's the date of that picture?

Pictures aren't always what they appear:

?quality=85&strip=all&w=1200

[disillusioned73]

95. lmao...

[Mike Nelson]

45. When she first...

… became known, I adored her... but, I'm not feeling the burn much anymore... Maybe she'll work out though... maybe she'll work will all Progressives, Democrats and build workable alliances in Congress.

[Celerity]

52. nice conflation of an over 5 month old photograph with today's activist rally(not organised by AOC)

and where (speaking directly to the young activists) AOC said she was there to have Pelosi's back in terms of global climate change initiatives from the House.

Video right here

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/13/us/politics/house-democrats-freshmen.html


Quote from the video

“We need to tell her (Speaker Pelosi) that we’ve got her back in showing and pursuing the most progressive energy agenda that this country has even seen. This is about unity. This is about solidarity and the fact that we are going to make a better future for our kids, and we know that she is going to be there with us. That's what this is about."


June 7th on that pic

[pnwmom]

55. Engaging in a sit-down protest outside Pelosi's office is a strange way to have her back. n/t

[Celerity]

56. She didnt organise it, she briefly talked to them and told them to unify with the soon

to be Speaker, and that Pelosi will be there for them.

We just took over the House, should the kids have went and camped out at the soon to be powerless Rethug office? I am sure hundreds of Democratic protests have been directly in Republicans face when they were in power in the House.

I saw the first thread today on this with a disingenuous tweet posted that falsely framed the entire event, which led to a 'burn the witch' type rat pack, including calling AOC a Farrakhan associate via dodgy, guilt-by-association tactics that the RW has perfected, as well as calling for her to be primaried. Good luck with that last one.

I am new here but I see so many double standards in who is attacked and who isn't. Example:

When people have said Pelosi is a RW hate magnet and hurts the party (I do NOT agree at all) by being painted as a commie by Fox News, people (rightly so) say 'Fuck that, we will not let the Republicans define us. BUT, then, when it is the same exact thing done by shitty, lying Fox News, but its AOC under their cosh, the same people say OMG! she is hurting the party! It is a classic double standard.

[pnwmom]

61. Something you might not realize is that criticism in the midst of a general election

is treated differently than under normal circumstances.

But it is not just Fox news that characterized it as Ocasio-Cortez leading the protest. And I wonder why they were protesting at Nancy's office, instead of the Republican leaders who OPPOSE action on climate change.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-opens-freshman-orientation-leading-protest/story?id=59165661

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez opens freshman orientation by leading protest at Nancy Pelosi's office

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/13/ocasio-cortez-climate-protestors-push-pelosi-962915

Ocasio-Cortez, youth protesters storm Pelosi office to push for climate plan

[Celerity]

62. those are misleading headlines (there is a shock) and I already addressed the issue on why

the activists went to Pelosi's office. She will soon be the one in power. Again, Ocasio Cortez didn't lead it, organise it, or even stay there for the whole thing. Those headlines are typical clickbait.

[bigtree]

75. Speaker Pelosi WELCOMED the demonstration

...which was in a long tradition of progressive Democratic activism and advocacy.

Making like it's some heresy to petition the Speaker is histrionic and absurd.

Listen to the woman you're misrepresenting here:

Nancy Pelosi @NancyPelosi5h5 hours ago
Deeply inspired by the young activists & advocates leading the way on confronting climate change. The climate crisis threatens the futures of communities nationwide, and I strongly support reinstating the select committee to address the crisis.

Nancy Pelosi @NancyPelosi 5h5 hours ago
We welcome the presence of these activists, and we strongly urge the Capitol Police to allow them to continue to organize and participate in our democracy.

[jberryhill]

53. WITCH! BURN THE WITCH!

[stonecutter357]

54. I wonder if Ocasio-Cortez knows Sarandon was in a child porn movie ?

[Piratedog]

63. Back that up!

Beep beep. She’s going to get led down a bad path if she follows Sarandon. This is a lesson she needs to learn or she will have a very short and insignificant term in the House.

[ecstatic]

67. WTF?! nt

[MrGrieves]

68. Bah let AOC cut her teeth.

If she is still rocking the boat a few months from now then let's get worked up. Even still she could be the catalyst to move firther left on some positions. Let her be the trial balloon to see how people react to her. If people react negatively just cast her as an outlier and let her fend for herself. As someone else said we have manchin and his voting record. Let her be who she is and get what you can out of it.

[pnwmom]

69. She would be better advised to stay away from Sarandon,

who all but endorsed Trump in 2016, after haranguing Dolores Huerta in the Nevada caucus.

[MrGrieves]

74. I get it

I get it and agree but what are we going to do? Make a bunch of noise about it? Let her figure out how insignificant she can become by being a junior rep who takes shots at the long tenured soon to be house leader.

[redstateblues]

78. Tone deaf

[pnwmom]

82. Well, the general election is over and she won, so we're allowed to post constructive criticism

but not "highly inflammatory attacks" -- which is a judgement call.

[pwb]

91. Is this post suppose to unit us?

Or does it play into the divide the democrats game plan? Come on, a picture means nothing and a short visit to support a cause at a demonstration i think is great.

[NurseJackie]

103. Her support of Cenk Uygur's "Justice Democrats" PAC makes me uncomfortable.

... particularly with that group's false insinuations that "Democrats are corrupt" or that the "Democratic party is corrupt". Cenk Uygur and his group of fringe malcontents seem to be intent on doing everything possible to divide and weaken our party, and that only serves to benefit the GOP. I really do question the wisdom of anyone supporting such an organization.

[Justice Democrats]...has a stated goal of reforming the Democratic Party by running "a unified campaign to replace every corporate-backed member of Congress and rebuild the Democratic Party from scratch" starting in the 2018 congressional midterm elections.[4][5]

Justice Democrats describes its views as being held by most Americans, but deemed "politically impossible" by the current political establishment because of systemic political corruption....

Clearly, the "Justice Democrats" PAC embraces the insane Sarandonesque philosophy of "we must destroy it in order to rebuild it".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justice_Democrats

[pwb]

105. Wikipedia? I don't trust as fact.

I am from New York and will give her the benefit of the doubt. Sarandon was wrong on Trump i agree. But I will not judge this young lady by the election but by her actions from now on. I think the pukes are using her as a diversion for their attempted theft in the Florida and Georgia elections. Thats where my concern is right now. When the pukes say look over here. Look over there.

[NurseJackie]

107. Maybe you'll "trust as fact" info directly from the source?

https://www.justicedemocrats.com/about

Why “Democrats”? Why not just start a new party?

The two-party paradigm is the model for our country’s current political system. While we agree with and often champion many third-party candidates and movements, the reality is that right now it is next to impossible for a third-party candidate to win a national election.

We want our democracy to work for Americans again as soon as possible. The best way to do this is by working to change the Democratic party from the inside out. Once Justice Democrats take power, we plan to implement electoral reform like ranked choice voting so third parties can have more power in our democracy.

The "Justice Democrats" support THIRD PARTY CANDIDATES AND MOVEMENTS!!!

What about good candidates already in Congress? Are you going to run against them?

We won’t run against candidates that fully support the Justice Democrats platform, but we also know that challenging incumbents in primaries is the best way to make them start to listen to people over corporate donors.

More of that "destroy to rebuild" bullshit.

[pwb]

108. So its a primary and election movement? Not so much a governing movement.

A few people on the extreme end of our party can't implement election reform. I consider Unger a republican anyway. He went off the deep end a while ago. I use to listen to him but no more.
Still waiting to see how this young lady really presents herself before i judge.

[NurseJackie]

109. Their goals are clear.

Not so much a governing movement.

Their goals are clear. Destroy to rebuild. Supporting third-party efforts over Democrats.

I consider Unger a republican anyway.

I consider him to be an asshole. Remember his incident with American Airlines? He's a pompous ass.

Still waiting to see how this young lady really presents herself before i judge.

She's off to a shaky start. Either she's receiving bad advice or no advice. Having such a cozy relationship with Cenk Uygur's group does not bode well.

[pwb]

111. She had pukes defining her from the start. Just like Pelosi they are trying to ruin her name.

She has yet to speak on the floor or cast a single vote so i will still withhold judgement and just say that people use every avenue they can to get elected. We will see? I hope she does well.

[pwb]

112. Good talk Nurse Jackie but

I have to end it here. i hate kicking this post up. Peace to you.

[disillusioned73]

94. You can't fear the rightwing loons...

you must fight them & defeat them.. worried about what ppl that will never align with you think is a waist of time...

Ocasio doesn't give an F what the right thinks... and I am here for it..

[Charlotte Little]

96. Personally

Cannot stand either one of these women. I've gotten my wrist slapped for going after Sarandon on here (not sure why; I guess someone is a fan), so I'll not express my full opinion other than to say - snakes stick to their own kind.

[George II]

98. So what was the point of that "demonstration" yesterday? If any of the demonstrators had asked....

....Pelosi, especially the organizer, they would have known that Pelosi said five days earlier that she was going to re-seat the Committee about which these people were demonstrating!

So again, what was the point?

[Small-Axe]

113. They were there to show their support for Nancy Pelosi, don't you know?

[zipplewrath]

101. How to be a successful politician

Just about anyone who is a successful politician will tell you that you don't push away people with whom you might have some common ground. It doesn't mean you endorse them, but you engage them. Heck, some politicians have their best moments when engaging with someone with whom they disagree. People complain about "purity" tests all the time around here. A successful politician always avoids "purity" tests. Yes, there is always a risk in meeting with potential supporters that tomorrow there will be a photo of them in a hood, or burning a flag, etc. One just has to be ready to explain that with which they agree and that with which they do not. It is the Rev. Wright problem that Obama had. It will be interesting to see how AOC goes forward when actually working and voting in congress to see if she can achieve this balance to the satisfaction of her constituents.

[LanternWaste]

106. I'm cool with Cortez.

She's young... she has some growing up to do and some lessons to learn (let's hope not the hard way); and by the end of her first term, my guess is that she'll have learned the process well enough to be an effective representative of her constituents.

That's if she stays away from the Sarandon-wing, who, like the Trumpers, never allow, let alone discuss legislative compromises.

[oberliner]

110. Well put

I totally agree.

[fleabiscuit]

116. I find it unsurprising. nt