I had dinner with a former Secret Service Agent, FBI Agent and Mueller Investigation employee

[louis c]

He was a Secret Service agent during the Nixon administration and knew Alexander Butterfield. He served as an FBI agent and special agent when Mueller was FBI director. He worked as a special agent for the first 6 months of the current investigation concerning Russia's involvement in the 2016 election.

There were 5 men at this dinner. I sat next to this 74 year old retired agent (I'm 66). You can just imagine the questions I had. Although he was very specific and forthcoming about his time in the Nixon Whitehouse, most of that info I can get in documentaries. Whenever I tried to pry some info about the current Mueller investigation, he was not quite as forthcoming. I asked about Trump Jr., Kushner and the conspiracy. I asked timelines, Trump's involvement and indictments. No answers and he started to get annoyed with me, but I was a guest of the host and one of the reasons I was there was to do a favor for this guy's 44 year old son (get him in the union). Finally, he said to me, "look, all I can tell you is Donald Trump is a doushebag and you will be surprised what comes out when Bob Mueller concludes this thing."

[vlyons]

1. I won't be surprised

I'm betting that most folks here on DU will say, "I told you so ---"

[progressoid]

13. Agreed.

Although, hopefully a lot of his followers will be surprised.

[catbyte]

21. They won't believe it. Il Douche has primed them very well to believe nothing anybody

other than himself tells them. It's pathetic and scary at the same time.

[Dogboyzdad]

49. Il Douche

Great tag for our favorite president

[calimary]

33. Surprised how? Makes me a little bit jittery.

Surprised at HOW MUCH corruption and crime is revealed? Or surprised at how little there actually is that we could sink our teeth into, and about which we can win convictions?

If there’s ANY wiggle-room, donald trump is an expert at beating the rap and wiggling out of danger. Like the snake he is.

[fescuerescue]

36. SS agents are very good

at saying nothing. Even when they say something, you'll think it was something only to realize it was an empty statement.


So yea. Surprised? Could mean anything.

[SWBTATTReg]

41. And they should remain silent. Don't want to risk anything w/ ongoing investigations ...

or put at risk any future prosecutions...people shouldn't ask these guys (the fbi, other parties investigating for possible crimes) any questions like this. They know better.

[fescuerescue]

47. My experience hasn't been with anything active

They don't even talk about the mundane that happened 2 decades ago.

It's part of the discipline and I think that's as it should be.

[Harker]

40. That's what I was feeling.

A statement like that could mean a lot of things.

I remain hopeful, though, that Trumpsky's house of cards comes crashing down. Soon.

[William Seger]

57. Yeah, it's kinda "Here's two thing you already know"

[greymattermom]

2. We're not surprised that Trump is a douchebag.

So what will we be surprised about? Maybe more details about Putin and MBS?

[maryellen99]

3. I hope it doesn't mean that trump is going to be cleared nt

[KPN]

18. That was kinda my thought on reading that.

Almost like saying there’s no law against being a douchebag.

On the bright side, I’m a glass half full pessimist at heart. So who knows? ... Oh, and the advantage of being a pessimist is that one is almost never disappointed, I.e, there are surprises.

[louis c]

66. He gave me every indication Trump's got a problem

I pressed as hard as I could without getting obnoxious. The host, who is less political than I am, kept giving me the evil eye. I was there so the former agent, who was a fiend of the host, could ask for some help to get his son into the trade union I work for, since his son is licensed and it isn't that easy to get into the union. I can set up an interview and give a recommendation, but that's all I can do. He said that would be fine. Our dinner lasted 3 hours and was quite a wonderful night. Of the 3 hours, my 'interrogation" of the retired agent only lasted about 5 minutes.

If I could interpret body language and unrelated conversations, I'd say Trump has a lot to worry about.

[spinbaby]

4. These people aren't allowed to talk

I have a friend who works for the FBI who never talks politics ever with anyone. It’s part of the job.

[2naSalit]

6. And so it is

in numerous federal agencies, even in the GS ranks. As you said, it's part of the job. If you are in security, there is not even a question about it. But there are some who will leak, I'm sure the selection process for all personnel on this huge case included only persons who could be trusted not to leak in the first place.

[exboyfil]

27. But there are some who have Rudy G.

on speed dial and a well thumbed copy of Clinton Cash on their desks. I am praying for the day when their communications are sifted through to find out actually what did happen with Weiner's computer.

[FakeNoose]

59. Yes that's another whole can o' worms

... but I bet they're waiting for Rudy to die before all that comes out.
Some of those guys (feds) are still loyal to him after all these years.

[JayhawkSD]

5. Some stories are believable.

"He worked as a special agent for the first 6 months of the current investigation concerning Russia's involvement in the 2016 election." At the age of 72 or 73.

And some aren't.

[PSPS]

10. Yup.

[ecstatic]

11. Isn't Mueller in his 70s? I was actually

concerned about that when I first heard, but apparently he has the wisdom, experience, and discipline that makes him perfect for the job.

[peekaloo]

12. Mueller's 74, so it's possible.

I've lowered my expectations yet I'm hoping to be surprised.

[grantcart]

16. Mueller is 73 It is entirely concievable that he brought in a well experienced colleague

to assist in setting up the office, the SOP, the infrastructure for the office.

When I was in Thailand during the massive refugee crises in 78 our organization called in a cadre of old hands to quickly increase our capacity. They were all in their 70s and some of them stayed for years.

[Duppers]

22. My civil service hubs just retired in Aug.

He's 75.

[LiberalFighter]

24. Reading responses to this have to go with them.

You use the resources available. If there aren't enough in the rank and file of the actives then you consider recently retired or otherwise capable. That puts less of a burden on ongoing investigations not connected with Mueller's or the regular daily activities.

[LanternWaste]

26. Some responses are rational and logical

And some ignore relevance and nuance.

[MadDAsHell]

85. Some go for sarcasm over substance. nt

[JayhawkSD]

52. From the Federal Times

In response to a question about law enforcement officers working past the mandatory retirement age of 57.

"CSRS and FERS law enforcement officers and firefighters are subject to mandatory retirement at age 57 if they have 20 years of service. An agency head can retain an LEO until age 60 if he finds that the employee’s continued service is in the public interest. The FBI has limited authority to raise the age to 65. While a CSRS LEO can be retained above age 60, it may only do so with the Office of Personnel Management’s permission. A FERS LEO may only be retained with the permission of the president."

Again, some stories can be believed only by people who have an agenda.

[JI7]

78. how does his age make any of this unbelievable ?

[northoftheborder]

7. I think what Mueller reveals will be such far-ranging and overlapping circles....

....of crime and debauachery that we welll may be shocked at the breadth and depth of it.

[FakeNoose]

58. Yes I agree

... and we'll be the screaming villagers with the torches and pitchforks.

[a kennedy]

8. Really??? "Look all I can tell you is tRump is a doushebag and you will be surprised what

comes out when Muelller concludes this thing.” I can hardly wait.

[ecstatic]

9. Mueller please hurry and lock him up

The nation and the world can't wait much longer.

[safeinOhio]

14. My big worry

will we ever get to see it.

[Pepsidog]

19. Yup. That is the big question. Will they bury it? Rs will move heaven and earth to prevent its

release. Or will offer a sanitized summary that exonerates Trump and use national security as the reason. I hope there is a pentagon papers character there.

[rso]

15. Mueller

I think you were snookered. Mueller’s prosecutors have been publicly identified and none are even close to being 70 years old. And all the investigators are FBI agents assigned to Mueller on a as needed basis, mostly from the Washington Field Office. The thing is that FBI Agents have a mandatory retirement age of 57. So this gentleman could not possibly have worked on the investigation.

[LiberalFighter]

25. There are exceptions to that requirement.

And when the exception is not involved it is 57 IF they have 20 years of service.

[rso]

43. Mueller

There are no exceptions because the FBI will not accept applicants who are older than 37 years old, thus allowing for 20 years of service retiring at 57. I know from direct, personal experience.

[JayhawkSD]

54. Not to age 72.

See reply #52

"CSRS and FERS law enforcement officers and firefighters are subject to mandatory retirement at age 57 if they have 20 years of service. An agency head can retain an LEO until age 60 if he finds that the employee’s continued service is in the public interest. The FBI has limited authority to raise the age to 65. While a CSRS LEO can be retained above age 60, it may only do so with the Office of Personnel Management’s permission. A FERS LEO may only be retained with the permission of the president."

[lunatica]

42. The age you cite is only if the required time of 20 years service falls when

You’re 57.

Example: If at the age of 50 I had worked for UC Berkeley for at least 20 years I would have been eligible to retire. They have a pension plan which is as dependable as Social Security, but you wouldn’t be able to access your SS until age 62 or later. But the fact is employees can continue to work indefinitely and many do well into their 70s. If you work 30 years you can actually get most of your salary as your pension. If you work more than that you can retire with your full salary.

There is a world of difference between the age you can be eligible to retire and your choice of when you actually retire. I was 70 when I retired and it was completely my choice. They actually wanted me to continue working there.

The University of California is a State university, not a private one. Working for the government is different than working in the private sector.

[rso]

44. Mueller.

Your example does not apply to the FBI. Applicants who are older than 37 will not be hired. This allows for the opportunity to serve for 20 years and retire at 57. I know from direct, personal experience.

[lunatica]

45. Mueller was born in 1944

and was FBI Director from 2001 to 2017. He left the FBI when he was 57 years old when he became the Director. He was 73 When he left the FBI.

He’s 74 years old now and as far as I can tell is working either for or with the FBI.

[rso]

46. Mueller

Nope. The FBI Director slot is a political position, there are no age restrictions. Mueller was never an FBI Agent.

[lunatica]

72. OK. Thanks for explaining that.

[JayhawkSD]

55. You did not work for the FBI.

Federal law enforcement officers face mandatory retirement age.

See reply #52 in this thread.

[lunatica]

60. Got it

Thanks.

[louis c]

67. A special agent works after retired on an as desired and needed basis.

Kinda like Mueller is working after retirement.

[lunatica]

71. Thanks for the clarification

[Bernardo de La Paz]

48. You misread.

I think you were snookered. Mueller’s prosecutors have been publicly identified and none are even close to being 70 years old. And all the investigators are FBI agents assigned to Mueller on a as needed basis, mostly from the Washington Field Office. The thing is that FBI Agents have a mandatory retirement age of 57. So this gentleman could not possibly have worked on the investigation.

Read the OP.

It did not say the man was a prosecutor for Mueller's Special Counsel Investigation.
It did not say the man was an FBI Agent for Mueller's Special Counsel Investigation.

Further, agents are not prosecutors. Beyond that, Mueller employs many people besides agents and prosecutors.

Mueller is 74. If he can work on the project, so can the other guy.

[rso]

53. Mueller

Apart from a Public Relations person and a couple of clerical staff, ALL of Mueller’s staff consists of only prosecutors and FBI Agents.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

61. Mueller has experts working for him, including outside experts, you can be sure.

Not everyone is on a full-time payroll or sited in the same building as him. People can be called in from retirement to lend a special hand on an as-need basis (if they agree).

[JayhawkSD]

56. You should read the OP actually.

It says, "He worked as a special agent for the first 6 months of the current investigation concerning Russia's involvement in the 2016 election."

A "special agent" is an FBI agent, who must retire at age 57, unless extended, which cannot be beyond age 60 without authority of the president.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

63. Wrong

A special agent, in the United States, is usually a criminal investigator or detective for a federal, state, or county government who primarily serves in investigatory roles. Within the US federal law enforcement system, dozens of federal agencies employ federal law enforcement officers, each with different criteria pertaining to the use of the titles special agent and agent. -- Wikipedia

[louis c]

69. The answer is right in your reply.

you have it correct.

you know, if I knew I had to defend myself, I wouldn't have even posted this info.

thanks for your support


Within the US federal law enforcement system, dozens of federal agencies employ federal law enforcement officers, each with different criteria pertaining to the use of the titles special agent and agent. --

[louis c]

68. you have it exactly right.

[treestar]

94. But could they be brought in as contractors

to consult?

[Monsieur_Grumpe]

17. Good surprised or bad surprised?

Can't wait.

[fescuerescue]

37. It could go either way.

As I said elsewhere, I know a few of these guys personally.

They are extremely good at saying a bunch of words that sound like alot, but later reflection you realize they said absolutely nothing.

[TxVietVet]

20. Lots of people put positive spin on the Mueller Investigation.

I hope it's all true. I hope we the people can stop the conservanazis before they finished destroying what's left of the country I so proudly served.

I'm not religious but I do believe in GOD. I pray that the investigation exposes the conservanazis and their party as traitors. Then, this will either be the end of the republikans or they will finish off what's left of our form of government and our society. The rat bastards are destroying the fabric of our culture and society.

The conservanazis are

[FakeNoose]

62. If there really is justice

... this should be the end of the Republican Party. Prosecute the guilty & complicit, send the rest home.
I completely agree!

[Purrfessor]

23. May I share your post on Facebook, with credit to you? n/t

[louis c]

84. Yes

[Catherine Vincent]

28. I take it as "He's a db but not enough to take him down".

[FreepFryer]

29. I read it more "not enough to destabilize our democracy by forcing his extralegal removal"

And serve Putin in so doing.

[mgardener]

30. I'm thinking....

That the Trump family has been on the FBI's radar for a long time.
They are involved with tne Saudi's, the Mafia and the Russians.

[sarcasmo]

31. The lawsuit filed this week in the SDNY dealing with the Ponzi Scheme will expose these Grifters.

[Vinca]

32. Geez - I'm almost hyperventilating with excitement. Another reason to wish this election over.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

34. We can only hope that the surprise will be something

that effectively removes Trump from office. I have no faith that will happen. The longer this drags on the more I think the scenario where he presents a report to Congress and nothing at all happens after that is the likeliest one.

[fescuerescue]

35. I know a former SS agent and DSS agent

One Provided protection to Bill Clinton, the other SS Rice. The guy who provided protection to Rice has had his photo here on DU with folks speculating about his role.

Anyway, these guys do not talk about their roles, except at the highest level common knowledge or things that are very very well covered in media.

[barbtries]

38. well that got my imagination roiling.

optimistically.

[Stellar]

39. Well that just confirms my suspicions...Trump is a doushbag. nt.

[Mr.Bill]

50. I have never been optimistic

about the future of my country being in the hands of a republican FBI director. Mueller was a member at one of Trump's country clubs. He's a lot closer to being one of them than being one of us.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

51. Wow! I'll take it !!!

[Raine1967]

64. I'm surprised he said that much. I was friends w/a SS agent who was in charge of Mrs. Obama's

detail. Her wife was FBI, and they couldn't even talk about any of it until her detail was over, and even then, she made it clear she couldn't talk politics openly. No social media presence, nothing at all. She retired shortly after DOTUS was elected and they moved to another state.


Our SS, FBI agents and State Department employees are the utmost professionals.

[louis c]

70. He's retired.

[flibbitygiblets]

91. DOTUS! LOL.

[Cha]

65. ".. trump is a douchebag.." We knew

that, too!

Thanks, Louis, that must have been so interesting to be there at this point in history.

[DFW]

73. Indicting is one thing

Proving is another thing

Convicting is yet another thing.

Sustaining that conviction over an appeal is another thing, and convincing a pardon-crazy clown in the White House to cease and desist when he sees no incentive to cease and desist is the crown jewel. Since it's a fair bet Kavanaugh will vote to overturn any conviction of the hands that fed him, it comes down to appealing to the sense of justice of Justice Roberts. I think I'd put more money on a two-toed sloth racing a cheetah.

[elocs]

74. Beware the Law of Unintended Consequences in thinking this will go exactly as you hope.

Does anyone believe that Trump will go gently and meekly into that good night?
He loves chaos and mischief, has tens of millions of followers as well as many thousands who will act on his command and behalf.
Then again, people here have such stoked expectations of what will happen that if Trump does not spontaneously combust they will be disappointed.

[talkingwithtrumpers]

83. Well, that's OUR job. Stand up for the country

Mobilize. Canvass. Vote. Give Dems power, then raise our voices in defense of the United States.

[jimlup]

75. Unless they try to decapitate Mueller first

And I certainly don't put it past these traitors.

[Pacifist Patriot]

76. That's pretty much what I got

From my contact. The one who would only cop to " this will make Watergate look like stealing a candy bar from 7-Eleven." Otherwise, tight sealed lips and annoyance at my badgering.

[AJT]

77. I'm not sure I can be surprised about anything 45 has done anymore.

My jadedness has now been jaded.

[bdamomma]

79. Thank you so much

for that valuable information, and you came to right place to share with us. If you hear anything else come here.

[McCamy Taylor]

80. I could have told the country Trump is a douchebag for free.

[Beartracks]

81. I hope it's allowed to "Come out." n/t

==========

[Demonaut]

82. was he drinking? rookie mistake

[louis c]

86. Actually, just one

I wish I could post names and place, but I really shouldn't.

I know it's true and the people I was with are appointed officials at very high levels of state government. Interesting company.

[quakerboy]

88. No.

Mueller is a righty. Mueller will say nothing that he does not have to say to cover his own rear. He will move heaven and earth to avoid producing any evidence that might harm the greater Righty movement. He will offer minor scape goats, and then fade away at the soonest opportunity.

[Thekaspervote]

89. IMHO you are wrong. He may be a repub but his life has been one of service to his country and

Swore an oath to protect it and the constitution. The 2 are completely different. Dotard is an a moral crook.. mueller doesn’t stomach crooks and liars

[quakerboy]

92. Voting is the ONLY way to fix this

No savior will fix this government. And definitely not a Righty.

Look to who Mueller served, who chose him for the highest levels of government. He helped sell the Iraq war lie. You say he doesn't stomach crooks and liars.. What in heck would you call wholehearted, full throated, misleading the public service to the GWB regime? He may have disagreements with Trump. Or both sides of that may be purely theater. But this is not a man who will upset any applecarts that threaten those he serves. The Republican party. Thus we get scape goats, but we should all be very surprised if ANYTHING substantial comes of his investigations.

Do not expect anything meaningful to come of his work unless We the people vote for change with a strong enough voice to force his hand. And even then.. at most we will get a sacrifice move to try and salvage the Right from the blowback of their own attempt to take over this country.

[7962]

93. If that were the case, he would have wrapped this up long ago.

He's been at it for quite some time, he could have already finished with a few folks bagged as he has now, and said "no evidence of X" against trump. But he hasnt done that.

[quakerboy]

97. Not when he can keep us on tenterhooks

IF he had wrapped it up before the election, it would have been a rallying cry, a clear miscarriage of justice.

By rolling up a few bit players and keeping it going, they can keep people hoping that the problem will be taken care of by someone else.

But after the election.. If they keep enough people content enough to retain control.. They have a whole new game, 2 full years and a 100% compliant SCOTUS to change who can and can't vote, how the votes are counted, and whatever other perversions they can come up with to rig the game even further.

[samnsara]

95. i sure hope we get to see it!

[Cary]

96. A pro

He wasn't going to tell you anything.