Trump to Terminate Birthright Citizenship

[babylonsister]

https://politicalwire.com/2018/10/30/trump-to-terminate-birthright-citizenship/

Trump to Terminate Birthright Citizenship
October 30, 2018 at 6:44 am EDT By Taegan Goddard

President Trump told Axios that he plans to sign an executive order that would remove the right to citizenship for babies of non-citizens and unauthorized immigrants born on U.S. soil.

“This would be the most dramatic move yet in Trump’s hardline immigration campaign, this time targeting ‘anchor babies’ and ‘chain migration.’ And it will set off another stand-off with the courts, as Trump’s power to do this through executive action is debatable to say the least.”

[no_hypocrisy]

1. What about the Russians? They use it quite a lot.

[Raster]

4. Yes, and the tRump* organizations have been facilitators of Russian/US anchor babies...

....Buy a severely overpriced tRump* condo, get a long-term resident visa, and then have your Russian/American anchor baby in the US to secure it's US Passport.

[mountain grammy]

45. Exactly.

Goddam stupid motherfucker. Enough

[bitterross]

60. That was my first thought too.

The Russians are yuge baby-tourists. Won't go over well with his Russian oligarch friends.

[Raven123]

2. Should be an interesting SCOTUS case

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

24. He might get a few votes, but ...

... all four "Democratic" justices will vote him down, as will Roberts. Thomas and Kavanaugh may be the only ones dumb enough to uphold his stupid executive order.

[In It to Win It]

25. If a justice assents...

That should be grounds for impeachment. They are purely unqualified to do the job.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

52. Kavanaugh will vote with Trump for beer

[eShirl]

3. Executive orders don't change the Constitution, sorry.

[A DAY IN THE LIFE]

6. The 14th Amendment has a little loophole

"Under the Jurisdiction." Any person born in the US must be under the jurisdiction of the US and not a foreign nation. It is thought that with Congress' wide powers to regulate immigration, they have the authority to define "Under the Jurisdiction."

If Trump does it by executive order, then he does violate the 14th Amendment and the Civil Rights Act of 1888. But Congress may be able to pass a law redefining birthright citizenship.

I find it interesting that European countries do not have birthright citizenship.

[unc70]

10. No the 14th amendment does not have a loophole

That is a RW talking point that has no credence at DU.

[Hortensis]

15. Right! A Day should try to imagine a situation in which any

person living in the United States would not be subject to our laws and therefore "under the jurisdiction."

[Crunchy Frog]

18. I believe that applies to foreign diplomats, but not the people that Dump is targeting. n/t

[Mariana]

39. Exactly, people who have diplomatic immunity.

Those people are are not immigrants, by definition. Immigrants, legal and otherwise, have no diplomatic immunity and are therefore subject to the jurisdiction of the United States and that of the state in which they reside.

[Amishman]

19. It's a real concern and has already been before the SCOTUS once

US v Wong Kim Arc in 1898 addressed this and might be the basis of their attempt

The majority ruling in that case interpreted the 'subject to the jurisdiction thereof' as being required to obey the laws of the United States. I see potential to try and weasel an argument that this does not apply to those in the country without authorization as their presence is in noncompliance with US law.

I don't agree with this, but I can see the gap they might try to exploit.

[TomSlick]

69. Reading the Wong Kim Arc is tough slogging.

There is a historical discussion that goes on for pages.

To me, the bottom line appears to be that the only persons not "subject to the jurisdiction" are "children born of alien enemies in hostile occupation and children of diplomatic representatives of a foreign State." I think an argument can be made that if the parents have not established domicile in the US, e.g. Russian medical tourists in the country only for the purpose of child birth, the child might not be citizens but I think it a weak argument.

It seems clear to me that if the parents are in the US with the intent to remain - have established domicile - any children born in the US are citizens.

[exboyfil]

27. It is whatever five in robes will say

They already parse the 2nd amendment out of all meaning.

[Crunchy Frog]

11. Yes, and the 2nd Amendment has a loophole you could drive a truck through.

It's less about what's constitutional than what the extreme RW SCOTUS judges want.

European countries also have no 2nd Amendment. For better or worse, we've got both the 2nd and the 14th.

[Raven123]

17. Something doesn't sound right

This assumes another country clams/admits jurisdictional authority. What if it does not?

[GoCubsGo]

22. That doesn't mean what you think it means.

Anything that occurs within the borders of the United States of America, its territories, military bases, and other properties is under its jurisdiction. Period. The End. It doesn't mean that foreigners are still held to the laws of the country from where they came. There is no "loophole" there. If you visit Canada, you are under their jurisdiction, not that of the US.

[Mariana]

44. Please define "jurisidiction".

In European countries, people don't generally have the right to keep and bear arms, either. Is that equally interesting? How about the limits some of them have on free speech? Do you find their established, tax-supported churches interesting, too?

[luvtheGWN]

54. "Jurisdiction" means under the law of the land (country).

Here's an example: Canada's new cannabis law applies only to Canadians or those resident in Canada. Those who have been convicted of marijuana possession are going to receive pardons. However, if they try to cross the border into the US, apparently only the conviction is recognized and not the pardon and they will be denied entry. That is according to the "law of the land" (the US).

[dchill]

64. "Diction" is what a person says. "Juris-" is jurist, so...

Brett Kavanaugh is a jurist. "Jurisdiction" is whatever Brett Kavanaugh says!

[PatSeg]

46. Welcome to DU

[pazzyanne]

51. Don't know about Europe, but Canada does have limited birthright citizenship.

My cousin was born in Newfoundland while her dad was in the military. She had dual citizenship until she was 18 and then she had to choose one.

[MarvinGardens]

62. Even undocumented immigrants are under our jurisdiction.

And the phrase is actually "...subject to the jurisdiction thereof...."

This was intended to exclude children of diplomats who are indeed not subject to our jurisdiction, and Native American tribes who were recognized as separate nations by treaty and did not pay taxes to us.

If a diplomat commits a crime here, they are not subject to our criminal laws. They can at most be expelled, and tried in their home country according to their laws.

At present, all other immigrants and visitors are subject to our laws. If an undocumented immigrant is caught committing a crime here, he or she can be arrested, put on trial, and sent to a state or federal prison or jail to serve time. So they are very much subject to our laws.

I suppose this loophole could be exploited by conferring diplomatic immunity upon entire classes of immigrants. Do you think that would be a good idea?

Yes, it is interesting that some European nations do not have birthright citizenship. I believe that this is to their detriment, and contributes to social problems. Independent of the constitutional question, I argue that birthright citizenship is good public policy, as it gives those living and working here for the long term more of a stake in the success of the nation.

[Xipe Totec]

5. Dog Whistles nt

[Crunchy Frog]

7. Isn't that unconstitutional?

Maybe not, if the Kavenaugh Court decides it.

[Vinca]

8. Were Trump's father and mother citizens when he was born?

Did they have their "papers?" Given the family's long history of avoiding compliance with the law, Don's own citizenship might be at risk. Melania reportedly fudged her visa, working when she wasn't supposed to. Does that negate her eventual citizenship? Are Junior, Eric, Ivanka and Barron stateless? Trump might be the white Aryan he seems to worship, but the whole clan might have to go if he figures out how to end birthright citizenship on his own.

[grantcart]

28. Yes his grandfather migrated here and operated a brothel during the Yukon Gold rush

[Vinca]

68. That doesn't mean he followed proper channels re citizenship.

The whole lot of them might be "illegals." (Hate that word, but it's theirs, not mine.)

[DesertRat]

65. Donald's mother was born in Scotland

I also wonder about her immigration status when he was born.

[leftynyc]

9. Trying to change the subject

That's all this is (besides being disgustingly unconstitutional).

[VOX]

12. Uhh, you can't do that in America yet, dude.

The U.S. is sorta built to NOT do whatever one’s whim is at any particular moment.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

36. Trump will push the limits of executive authority until someone tells him "No."

In this case, since the Repugs in Congress are co-conspirators with Donnie Two Scoops in his attempt to remake the country in his own image, we can only rely on the SCOTUS. Since the five conservatives claim to be "constitutionalists" who interpret the Constitution only as it was written, I'm sure they'll look at the plain language of the Fourth Amendment and knock the EO down.

And pigs can fly.

This is the first president in my lifetime whose character, morals, judgment and loyalty to my country I question on a daily basis. With Dubya, I seriously doubted his character (40 years of "youthful indiscretion" ) and judgment (the Iraq War), I never found him to be immoral, petty or hateful. And while I considered Dubya's puppet master, Cheney, to be mean (he shot his friend in the face and the man apologized for being in the way, for chrissake!), I never considered either of them to be traitors.

[malaise]

13. He has no such power - FOF

Fuck off fascist.

[Wednesdays]

67. Certain members of the SCOTUS might disagree

After Kavanaugh, nothing is off the table anymore.

[VMA131Marine]

14. "Under the jurisdiction thereof"

Is the terminology used to exclude the children born to foreign diplomats and consular personnel, who are in the US with diplomatic immunity and therefore not subject to its jurisdiction. It would also apply to the children of foreign military in the US.

[lostnfound]

16. Since he also has revoked passports or citizenship, aren't we all at risk??

I’m in my mid 50s and my memory is failing..my dad was born over a hundred years ago in another country.. slipped across the border 100 years ago with his dad and mum and brother.. a chain migration since my Aunt Margaret came first. With his madre and padre, y Guillermo y Marguerita...

The Canada route... is that okay then? Wait, from Ireland before that, maybe a problem?

[MaryMagdaline]

30. I'm at risk, too. Father born in Canada. He did get citizenship eventually

[spanone]

20. He Can't.

[Liberal In Texas]

21. So he thinks he can rule by fiat. This is the behavior of a DICTATOR!

It would be an illegal executive order, and other members of the government should not obey it.

[GoCubsGo]

23. So, I guess that means all those Russian women giving birth to anchor babies at his hotels

in Florida will have to stop doing so?

[Initech]

37. Yup! This would apply to them also!

[MineralMan]

38. Well, see, it would be applied selectively...

Of course.

[muntrv]

26. Executive orders are not the law of the land.

[Thomas Hurt]

29. Another election scam like the vaunted and mythical tax cut...

The Grifter in Chief is trying to play us all yet again.

Really clear in the 14th Amendment to the Constitution:

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

[ginnyinWI]

31. Squirrels! The 10% tax cut and now this. n/t

[malaise]

32. By the way he lied

The US is not the only country in the world that grants citizenship by birth.

[octoberlib]

33. Trump's full of shit and the media's being played.

Last edited Tue Oct 30, 2018, 09:41 AM - Edit history (1)

Attention major news organizations: At this point, it should be clear that Axios and Trump are both playing you. The story is more: Trump floats illegal, unconstitutional immigration proposal; News organization vying for ratings feeds Trump an idea and he bites

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Watch the clip. @jonathanvswan leads Trump into the birthright citizenship answer he wants. I’m sure Trump wants to do it, but I’ve sat through a lot of interviews and I’m hard pressed to remember a reporter leading an interview subject more blatantly than Swan does here.Adam Jentleson 🎈 added,

[getagrip_already]

34. Look! SQUIRREL!!!!!

Nothing to see here citizen. Pay no attention to the racist, anti-Semitic, drooling creature screaming on the front lawn. There is a squirrel in the back yard!

[study war no more]

40. we have to stop reacting to everything he says

He thrives on it. Don't give him what he wants.

[lapislzi]

35. Yes, it's probably sensationalist garbage. I'm still terrified.

My daughter was born while I was living overseas. Her birth certificate reads "American citizen born abroad." Her father was not a US citizen.

My daughter's father lives in the US now--naturalized. He married a foreign-born woman and adopted her daughter. The whole family's at risk, if I'm reading this right.

Maybe I'm just being a big alarmist, but this scares me shitless.

I'm stupidly grateful that my daughter's current love interest has ties to Australia. I just want them to hurry up and GTFO.

[marmar]

41. With this sycophant Supreme Court, who the hell knows...

... All that fascism talk no longer sounds like hyperbole.

[Bob Loblaw]

42. I say OK

If he can pass the new citizen's test. Fat chance.

[Equinox Moon]

43. How would an American born child become a citizen?

How would this work? I don't get it.

Would we all need to petition at age 18 for citizenship? If we don't pass, where do they deport us to?

This is ridiculous!

[unblock]

48. presumably his idea is that your parents need to be white, er, i mean, american citizens.

[Equinox Moon]

50. Oh, so if my parents are US citizens then the infant is too, at birth?

But...but...but... what if one of my parents is a US cit. and the other has a green card? For example.

[unblock]

53. well he hasn't provided details, but i presume somehow race will matter....

[Equinox Moon]

59. Indeed it will.

[tiredtoo]

47. We Must reign this narcissistic ego-maniac in

We can do so November 6th.

[Adrahil]

55. My guess is he will not attempt this...

This is just a rallying cry to rile up the racists before the election.

There is WAY too much case law against him.

[bucolic_frolic]

56. I'm calling it Trump Un-Birtherism

the guy is obsessed with this issue

[vlyons]

57. It's a distraction

to fuel his Fascist base. Yet again, he has kidnapped the conversation and gotten the media to talk about Trump, HIS agenda, HIS issue, HIS chaos. Meanwhile we are not talking about our issues - healthcare, gun control, raising the minimum wage, climate change, prison reform, voter suppression etc etc

[Zorro]

58. Someone should ask anchor baby Michelle Malkin if she approves

[AJT]

61. If the dems take back the house there needs to be

an investigation into whether Melania was here legally and if not then Barron should not be allowed citizenship.

[PatrickforO]

63. If he does this, he will have to insert a clause protection Russian women who

come to his hotels to give birth so their children can be US citizens...

[MarvinGardens]

66. Another crime to list in the Articles of Impeachment.

If he does it, a future justice department should prosecute him for civil rights violations, whether or not he is removed or leaves some other way.

[hatrack]

70. Trump to Terminate Graviry

Good luck, asshole.