One last post on the killing of Jamal Khashoggi. I worked in a slaughterhouse when I was younger.
I'm going to get gruesome here. If you can't stomach gruesome, click away and read another thread.
My dad was CIA and we traveled overseas several times when I was young.
In 1973 we went to Australia. At the age of 15 I got a job at a small Abattoir in Alice Springs, where my dad was stationed at Pine Gap and I was able to get a job at the only facility in town that supplied meat for the town and surrounding villages.
It taught me a LOT about anatomy.
It taught me how a body comes apart, how joints work, how bones are cut and how they break, how meat separates, how blood pools and coagulates, how much life is left in a being after the heart stops beating and all of this in a very real and practical way.
We dispatched the cattle with a .22 round to the center of one of the two curls of hair that every bovine has. One on the center of the forehead and one just behind the line of the horns or top of the skull. A single twenty two round in the middle of either of those will cause a fully grown bullock to drop like a sack of flour.
I learned a lot about how animals die and watched hundreds of them do so, cattle, pigs and sheep.
In my life and career I've had the opportunity to travel to many places, and to England several times. I once visited Warwick Castle which has an actual dungeon and torture chamber, complete with an "oubliette", basically a dungeon within a dungeon. It was a small hole, no larger than a 55 gallon drum in the floor of one of the rooms and the doomed was placed in there, a grate was locked over them and they were left.
To starve to death or die of thirst in their own filth.
I say all of this to make the following point;
The amazing and wondrous ways humans have discovered to cause pain and terror on other humans is simply astounding. The depravity required to come up with the various devices and methods used to inflict pain in a human body over the centuries is mind boggling. Ways to cause pain but not death have become almost a science in some parts of civilization, as anyone can find out with some simple and basic research.
Burning, crushing, impalement, stretching, hanging, starvation, etc. etc. Ways to hurt humans are unbeleivably numerous and have been used throughout the centuries.
Most advanced societies no longer practice such atrocities. The last execution by guillotine in France was done in the 70's, behind a wall at a prison yet it was surreptitiously filmed and caused such an uproar that the French government forever banned the practice. The fact that we still execute criminals in this country is a disgrace, but that is mostly a reflection of our religious society more than anything else.
But we don't do public hangings anymore. We don't put people in the stocks. We don't whip or flog offenders. We don't stone people to death. We don't burn people at the stake anymore.
And we sure as hell don't dismember people while they are still alive for the sole purpose of making their deaths as painful as possible.
No country or government that would tolerate such a thing, much less order it, has any business being considered part of the modern world. No one that thinks this is an appropriate way of ridding themselves of a perceived enemy can POSSIBLY BE CONSIDERED as a friend of a modern civilization.
It just can not be tolerated. The human race must move away from this backward notion that causing unspeakable pain during execution serves a purpose.
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The victim was tied to an inverted position. This had several "benefits": first, it assured sufficient blood diverted to the brain, second, it slowed down the loss of blood and third, it humiliated the victim.
Depending on the victim and torturer, this torture could last several hours. When a confession was required, the victim was frequently forced to watch someone else be subject to this method. If he didn't confess, he'd be slowly cut in half.
During the Inquisition, this method became even more popular as the inquisitors traveled from village to village often without any torture devices at their disposal.
While some victims were cut completely in half as a symbolical gesture, most had only up to their abdomen cut, this was done to prolongue the time of death.
http://www.medievality.com/saw.html
What the saudis did was medieval torture, end of story! It is barbaric and needs to be condemned in the strongest possible language worldwide. MBS must be held personally accountable, and he should stand trial. I cannot believe that we are living in a world where medieval torture not only takes place but is fully supported by our government. This is sickening!
So long as they all get their own prison block. I'm really hoping Kushner goes down for life over this. 
Transfixed. I know that's how I must have remembered the saw torture at the exhibit. At the same time, though, I was taking comfort in the knowledge that this kind of torture was centuries old and not likely to happen again. Got that wrong!
So unthinkable!! 
Before that, there weren't any borders or maps. It was all nomadic land with constant warfare between tribes.
It seems they still think & behave that way, but the oil money made them into definite winners and losers.
