Avenatti's macho act against us is getting old

[SHRED]

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

ON EDIT I am not arguing against fighting tough. We do need to get tougher. I am saying that his public lashing of the Democratic Party is not helpful.

[violetpastille]

1. Meh.

He's just a person. It's just Twitter.

Anyone with an account can tell him to go pee up a string.

#hecho

[brush]

2. As are the posts against Dems showing some spine.

We do need to stop being milquetoasts bring marshmallows to knife fights.

[SHRED]

3. Our number one goal right now

Should be to GOTV!

Not teardown Democrats.

[brush]

4. Of course. Did it ever occur to you that Avenatti is a Democrat?

Last edited Sat Oct 13, 2018, 04:03 PM - Edit history (1)

[SHRED]

11. "Did it ever occur to you..."

Geezus

[brush]

41. Just think how history was affected because Gore didn't contest...

what happened in Florida in 2000—Iraq war, 2008 great depression, SCOTUS appointments, SCOTUS seat stolen.

He's right. We have to fight back, not just be party that gets bulldozed.

[SHRED]

57. So much misunderstanding about my post

Of course we need to fight harder.

I am taking issue with how Avenatti is going about it when he turns his angst on the Democratic Party.

He needs to lead by example and not tear down our party in public. His political savy is lacking in my opinion.

[brush]

85. See post #15.

[questionseverything]

86. he did not attack the party...he disagreed with someone in the party

since we all seem to be in agreement with what he said, what's ur problem?

[SHRED]

87. I follow him on Twitter

He has posted attacks many times against the party.

[questionseverything]

92. we need 10s of thousands of voters who don't think dems are perfect

<shrugs>

[Hekate]

20. Avenatti is not running for, nor does he hold, a Democratic office. When he starts bashing ...

... Democrats who are, then he deserves to get called out on it.

Also, while he is smart and has done some things we agree with, he is also a sharp operator and always has been. He is not the leader of our party, or even one of the leaders of our party.

Just sayin'

[brush]

42. He's right about we need to fight back. Even Hillary and Holder are now...

echoing him.

[SHRED]

54. He's right to publicly bash our party?

We get warnings here for doing that.

[Tribalceltic]

100. He is not posting here

The OP is about a twitter comment

[brush]

90. Neither is Solis Doyle running or holding an office.

She's a commentator now.

[Perseus]

62. I believe that it is time Democrats start fighting hard

The republicans fight dirty, and we are always being civil. Do republicans care that Democrats are being civil? No, they don't, so the fight has to be taken seriously, Democrats need to stop giving out the other cheek while republicans happily go at it.

Every day I hear of republicans cheating, but I don't hear anything from Democrats fighting to stop the cheating, and when they finally do, its late in the game, the cheating has occurred, hard to reverse.

I don't mind Avenatti telling it how he believes, I am just hoping that Democrats who are being addressed by those comments read them, and start doing something about it.

When we remain quiet we are telling them that it is OK to do nothing, to allow republicans to be nasty and corrupt, that we will talk about it endlessly without action...and that is not OK, we need to send the message to Democrats in leadership positions that the need to stop the cheating from republicans and that the need to start fighting harder...maybe if they start fighting harder some from the other side will see Democrats as strong, even when they don't understand what anyone is saying.

For example, why didn't Democrats talk hard to Manchin to prevent him from voting 'yes' for Kavanaugh? Do ou really think that republicans would have let that go? The fact that one republican voted 'No' does not mean she was not pressured, and they didn't go harder at her because the knew they had the votes, otherwise they would have pressured her very hard.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

55. You can wait 3 weeks. Lots of time after the election for circular firing squads. . . . nt

[LuvLoogie]

5. He's another member

of the You're Not Good Enough Party.

Watch your back --again-- Dems!

[oasis]

6. He and Stormy can't bear taking a backseat to the upcoming Blue Wave.

🌊🌊🌊🌊🌊🌊🌊They better get used to it.

[marylandblue]

8. Notice he doesn't talk much about Stormy?

She is not useful at the moment.

[oasis]

12. Stormy's case is stalled, but A's limelight addiction continues. nt

[justie18]

56. Exactly!

And it is becoming rather predictable.

[oasis]

93. Nice avatar. Welcome to DU.

[JHan]

44. yup+

[pbmus]

7. For reference...this is old news...from August

“Julian Zelizer, a professor of history and public affairs at Princeton University, penned a piece for CNN on Sunday titled “Avenatti is right: Democrats need to fight fire with fire.”

In an email to The Hill, Zelizer added that Democrats could go with a traditional or nontraditional candidate, "but what they need is an incredibly tough partisan fighter.”

“Given the state of the GOP and the nature of Trumpian politics, the candidate will need to really pack a big political punch,” he said. “It doesn’t mean getting into the gutter but it does mean hitting back hard and being able to do so on Twitter and the cable news universe that now sets the rules of engagement.”

Some Democrats, however, think it’s a dangerous approach.

Patti Solis Doyle, a Democratic strategist who served as Clinton's 2008 presidential campaign manager, said the party needs to stand up to Trump.

“Does he need to be called out? Do we need to see his tax returns? Absolutely,” Solis Doyle said. “We need to be strong to deliver attacks on him.”

“But I’m not sure that someone who is remarkably similar to Donald Trump is the answer,” she added, referring to Avenatti.”

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/401657-dems-ditch-when-they-go-low-we-go-high-for-hit-back-harder



//////////////

My opinion...We need Avenatti and similar personalities...and we also need the soft and gentle Doyles of this world..

[empedocles]

9. Yes

[Drahthaardogs]

10. We could use a little macho, swag, gumption, guts, cajones

Last edited Sat Oct 13, 2018, 03:17 PM - Edit history (1)

Or just plain old pissed off angry energy.

Bill Maher said it last night. We play too damned nice. We can't win because when we do, they change the rules. When they win, they change the rules so they can win more.

When you are wrestling a pig, you better not mins getting dirty. We have a lot of new candidates this year who seem to get it.

[triron]

23. Good metaphor.

[smirkymonkey]

27. I agree. We keep doing the same thing over and over and it's not working.

We ARE perceived as weak because we keep rolling over and we don't fight back hard enough. I believe we should support dems, but he has a point. We need to fight fire with fire. We have to play as dirty as they do, because if we don't they are going to steamroll us again in the midterms and in 2020.

[rainy]

13. He is right in one respect: Democrats

don’t fight hard for the left because of donor dollars. The country is so far right now and most Americans are left. How did that happen?

[JCMach1]

14. We need newer, tougher faces... and yes, he gets the level of fight we are in

[muriel_volestrangler]

15. So Solis Doyle isn't actually a candidate, just a commentator, these days?

I see no reason why Avenatti shouldn't be allowed to disagree with a talking head. She's just a registered Democrat; not part of the campaign.

[Roland99]

16. Have little to no respect for him. He seems like a grifter to me

Glad his deceiving ActBlue page was taken down.

[oberliner]

21. Good points

[shanny]

17. Speaking as a Dem I find his "macho act" refreshing and novel.

It also inspires me to work even harder (I always vote so I can't do more on that front).

eta: who is "us"?

[womanofthehills]

37. I love his macho act and wish the dems would be tougher

We can't be all nice when the Republicans are lying about everything and saying the exact opposite of what is true. We are in a time that is too scary to be nice.

Bring on the macho!!

[shanny]

101. Amen!

[thegoose]

105. Yep. It's not enough to gently cluck disapproval about what Dumpster spews

In the halls of Congress. It's time to roar! Hell, every single Puke has gone all in worshipping the Master — Collins, Graham, McLipless, etc. Fucking traitors all!

[eleny]

18. I can't agree after Schumer buckled on the appointment of so many Trump judges to lower courts

[violetpastille]

24. We don't have the majority

We can agree that Senators come home and campaign or we can demand that they fight a futile WWE show-fight and jizz and swagger around and ultimately accomplish nothing.

When we have the majority we will have the luxury of smearing our scent all over the judicial branch.

[WeekiWater]

19. Fighting ourselves.

If he is one of us.

Link to tweet

?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

[oberliner]

22. Thank you for this post

You make a good point.

[SCantiGOP]

25. I've been tired of him for some time

Irritates me how he has appropriated the term “we” for everything he says.

[Kingofalldems]

26. Republican think tanks hate him.

So he can't be all bad. I like his spirit.

[smirkymonkey]

28. If they hate him, he's doing something right.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

29. The enemy of my enemy is not always my friend.

[Roland99]

52. Bingo!

[Kingofalldems]

31. Exactly.

[JI7]

30. is PSD running for something ? i have no idea why he is

bringing her up. most people don't know who she is.

[dogman]

33. She wrote an opinion comparing his stand to Hillary's.

He responded with his own opinion. In other words, nothing to see here.

[JI7]

35. stand on what ?

[dogman]

36. Getting tough with the GOP.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/13/opinions/what-democrats-need-to-do-to-win-opinion-doyle/index.html?no-st=1539457850

"Republicans want to lump Clinton and Avenatti together, but I think there's a difference between being strong (Hillary) and trying to beat Trump at his own game (Avenatti)."

[safeinOhio]

32. No spark

No fire.

[Grasswire2]

34. Your argument summons up William Lloyd Garrison in my mind.

I am aware that many object to the severity of my language; but is there not cause for severity? I will be as harsh as truth, and as uncompromising as justice. On this subject, I do not wish to think, or to speak, or write, with moderation. No! no! Tell a man whose house is on fire to give a moderate alarm; tell him to moderately rescue his wife from the hands of the ravisher; tell the mother to gradually extricate her babe from the fire into which it has fallen; — but urge me not to use moderation in a cause like the present. I am in earnest — I will not equivocate — I will not excuse — I will not retreat a single inch — AND I WILL BE HEARD. The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal, and to hasten the resurrection of the dead.
"To the Public", No. 1 (1 January 1831)

[jxla]

113. Yessss!

[cwydro]

38. I'm not a fan of that guy. nt

[Sunsky]

39. While I agree with Avenatti

Now is not the time for this. It's counterproductive. It reminds me of some of the Bernie supporters during the 2016 election.

[Autumn]

40. Not a damn thing wrong with someone going all macho on the Republicans who don't

respect decency or fair play.

[Turin_C3PO]

43. I like him overall

but he does need to stop going after Democrats. Eyes on the prize people!

[SHRED]

65. Exactly

[aeromanKC]

45. #Basta

Avanatti AG 2020

[PaulX2]

46. Republicans Treat Us Like Scum "Democrat Party" Avenatti Is Right Treat Them Like Satanic Traitors

Republicans are all scum, and vote to kill our families every day.

They should be treated like Satan worshiping scum.

Ever last one of them.

I can't even say what I would like to do to Republicans without losing my account here.....

[SHRED]

49. That's not my beef with him

His public attack on our party is what I find disturbing

[AlexSFCA]

47. unfortunately he is right

if most dems had the fight spirit of avenatti we wouldn’t be in this mess. We always let repubs get away with corruption even when we have power. You don’t need to go far for evidence: look what we did to Al Franken for nothing (kavanaugh is on SC, Franken is in the piles of history). IMO, repubs do not deserve respect, that ship has sailed. No dem should even think aboud “bipartisanship”, it is long gone. They must only think about the future of this country, not about making deals with repubs. They need to be destroyed like cockroaches, they deserve no mercy or empathy. Look at collins, she was respected by some and now she is one of the worst human beings in politics - I don’t want her ever rest in peace.

[Duppers]

48. No.

Even Clinton said so.

[SHRED]

50. Clinton bashes Democrats?

New one on me.

[rags17]

51. He fucking aced it

Democrats need stop being the party apologists and pathetic losers.

A few days ago a prominent Dem came out and said that Dems need to "kill" the Republicans, then conditionalised it with exemptions, weasel words and bullshit that took away the grand impact of that one great statement. Would Rethugs ever stop to provide nuance or conditions on any of the vile putrid hate speech that vomits from their throats ? Not a chance in hell !

Sorry Michelle, but when they go low kick em in the nuts, then stomp on their faces for good measure.

This war is not going to be won by being nice to these turds.

[brush]

71. Spot on. Agreed 100%.

[FreepFryer]

53. Meh. You don't speak for us. You speak for you. (n/t)

[Trust Buster]

58. A self promoting narcissist trying to exploit a political party for personal gain. Sounds familiar.

[SHRED]

61. Unfortunately true

Sad that many here don't get this.

We voters all want our party to fight hard.
Sadly, criticism of Avenatti is met with responses that indicate we all don't want this.

Avenatti blasts both parties in his personal quest.

[awesomerwb1]

59. Priority is to win in November

Then we can start working on refining, retooling/ rewriting the message. I agree in part with Avenatti, however right now is not the time.

Unfortunately I worry about the "purists" that want to take credit for things they did not really make happen. They want to create their own powerful niche within the party - sort of like the tea party does. Unfortunately our side is not as disciplined as the russiapublicans are and we end up bickering and divided and LOSING elections all over the place.

[Pepsidog]

60. What happens when Dems win the House and Trump tries to make favorable deals with Dems? Trumps

ideaology shifts with the wind. I can see him agreeing to Dem policy proposals because he will get good press. What do we do then? It’s quite possible that Trump does a complete flip and supports Democratic proposals his last 2 years with enough Republican senators going along with him to pass Democratic bills. Wouldn’t that be a kick in the balls to the Republicans. Please do not misconstrue this post in any way to be supportive of Trump whom I despise.

[brush]

76. If we win the House bills still have to go thru the Senate.

And vice versa. We will have ddneutralized the repugs so trump won't be able to pull any switcheroo. I doubt he would even try it with Miller and Bannon and Kelly and McTurtle and all the rest in his ear.

The great thing we will have going for us if we win the House is we can hold public hearings, issue subpoenas and do investigations starting with Kavanaugh, Nunes, on trump himself, and whether he signed off on that journalist who just got killed, Kushner, trump jr. and the trump tower traitors—are of those scum can be put under public microscope.

[nini]

63. Screw him.. Dems aren't the enemy - this is no ordinary election after all

I am so tired of those who claim to be on our side that spend more time attacking us than the nazi repukes.

SHRED - you got it right. It's the opposite effect for sure.

[SHRED]

64. That's how I see it

[libdem4life]

66. Name me a D who has "attack mode". All of the Rs do...it's in their political genes.

The Democrat's DNA is to "be nice". Voila...DJT and his wrecking balls of our norms of the rule of law, hallowed institutions of justice, etc. Now, a Democrat not "playing nice" and the meek are "shocked, shocked, I tell you"? Remember...the porn star he represents was scre#### by the adulterous President and paid off. Rs are just peachy with this

Give me a break. Our "going high" has not worked this time. Time to change the script. Thanks, Avenatti. You may not be perfect, but you are perfectly appropriate to these times.

[SHRED]

69. How many times do I need to post...

...that I'm not arguing against fighting?

It's his very public attacking of our party I have an issue with.

[luvallpeeps]

67. that's the tightrope we always have to walk

If we play fair, we get stomped on, if we cheat like they do, we become them. I believe it's apathy in the end that really seals our fate. One thing that pisses me off more than anything is when you hear someone say "I hate politics" or something to that effect. As though it is this huge inconvenience to be engaged. I hate it too, but it's a part of life. I hate wiping my ass, but it's a messy, shitty task that if neglected, can be awfully disgusting. We have the numbers, we need the fire.

[PaulX2]

68. If Hillary Treated Trump As He Deserved She Would Be President - Too Late Now For Her

Not for us.


Republicans are Putin backed traitor scum who want to take our healthcare away so we die bankrupt when we get sick.

All you need to know.

[SHRED]

72. Really?

You must have been watching a different set of debates and campaign.
She repeatedly pointed out his bullshit and Russian ties.

[violetpastille]

79. "Deserved to Be Treated"

I suppose if she treated Trump and all (R)s as they deserved to be treated she *would* be President.

[nini]

103. How many god damned times do people need to be reminded of the Russian hacking?

SHE FUCKING WON THAT ELECTION. IT WAS STOLEN.

She didn't fail us but this purist attacks continue anyway. So fucking boring and dangerous considering how important this election is.

ARGH

[brush]

94. You have that backwards. It hasn't been and we've been being steamrolled.

We need to fight back hard—not cheat but if they go low we kick them in the nuts, just as Hillary and Holder just said, echoing Avenatti.

[Kajun Gal]

73. But, it's true... Dems do need to get a tad bit tougher.

[SHRED]

74. Of course

But is this the way to do it?
Publicly attacking our party so close to an electron?

That's my beef.

[DeminPennswoods]

75. When never-Trumpers, but still Republicans, like RNC Michael

Steele and Marc Thiessen are recommending Dems play nice, you know playing hardball is working to Dems' advantage.

[SHRED]

77. PLEASE STOP

I AM NOT ARGUING AGAINST FIGHTING.
I AM ARGUING AGAINST PUBLIC BASHING OF OUR PARTY AND ITS MEMBERS ESPECIALLY THIS CLOSE TO AN ELECTION.

Maybe if I yell it will get through?

[FreepFryer]

78. Or maybe if u attack the Nazis trying 2 kill us, we won't keep objecting 2 ur internecine BS. (nt)

[dogman]

81. Fine, but since he was responding to her criticism of him

Why are you sick of him and not her? She called him out in her op-ed, with a little thrown in sarcasm. Why would he not stand up?

[SHRED]

83. He has a history

Not just her.

[Hekate]

114. I hope it will get through.

[OkieLib41]

80. My take..

I love Avenatti. Has anyone notice how the party has grown a somewhat of a spine since he's come on the scene? We are in a damn fight for this country!!! I'll put it to you like this...If we are a family (Dem party) and the other family we're fighting (GOP) is using bats, crow bars and bully clubs... basically using ever known tactic to win the fight, I sure as hell don't want anyone on my side trying to make nice with the people we're fighting! I want family members to find sticks, rocks or whatever to even the fight and beat their asses! Now, maybe that's a bad analogy, however my point is now is not the time to play nice and if you are...maybe this isn't the fight you need to be in.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

82. I am very much in favor of Dems being resolute and standing tough.

What I am not in favor of is Avenatti's propensity to let himself be drawn into dumb Twitter wars with Trump, who loves that kind of crap. That's not a show of strength, that's a six-year-old calling another six-year-old a poopyhead, or a drunk frat boy claiming his dick is bigger than the other guys' dicks and offering to display it. It's quite possible to be strong without being obnoxious.

[dogman]

88. The electorate playground is designed for six-year-olds.

[brush]

98. Get with the times. Social media is part of the campaign battlefield now.

How do thing the russian bots helped steal the election for trump?

Social media savvy is just as important as TV now.

And it's not for 6-year-olds.

[BannonsLiver]

84. Whenever he speaks I feel like carnival music should be playing in the background

[riversedge]

89. This what has @MichaelAvenatti all bent out of shape. What Democrats need to do to win (Opinion)

Patti Solis Doyle
?Verified account @PattiSolisDoyle
3h3 hours ago

This what has @MichaelAvenatti all bent out of shape. What Democrats need to do to win (Opinion) - CNN https://www-m.cnn.com/2018/10/13/opinions/what-democrats-need-to-do-to-win-opinion-doyle/index.html …

Link to tweet

Patti Solis Doyle
?Verified account @PattiSolisDoyle

Patti Solis Doyle Retweeted Peter Daou

Thanks, @peterdaou! @MichaelAvenatti didn't like what I wrote for CNN arguing Dems need 2 stick 2 facts; b tough; stay focused & vote 2 win (like we've been doing in specials.) I argued 4 NOT using T's gutter tactics. ie challenging Jr. 2 a fight.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/13/opinions/what-democrats-need-to-do-to-win-opinion-doyle/index.html …

Patti Solis Doyle added,
Peter Daou
Verified account @peterdaou
I have no idea what prompted this, but I worked closely with @PattiSolisDoyle and she is one of the nicest, most dedicated people I've encountered in politics. Trust me, Patti isn't the problem.

Link to tweet

…
1:17 PM - 13 Oct 2018


https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/13/opinions/what-democrats-need-to-do-to-win-opinion-doyle/index.html?no-st=1539465293


What Democrats need to do to win

By Patti Solis Doyle

Updated 1:33 PM ET, Sat October 13, 2018



...............Trump's self-righteous, hypocritical manipulation of our anger will work again -- at least for some Americans. (Trump's


But here's the problem: There are a lot of independents out there who are tired of the fighting in general -- and they will blame both sides equally. Losing their votes could cost Claire McCaskill, Beto O'Rourke and Joe Donnelly in their Senate bids. Democrats need to be careful.


Michael Avenatti, attorney for Stormy Daniels and potential (he says) presidential contender in 2020, says he thinks he could beat Trump by fighting like Donald Trump. "When they go low, we hit harder," he promises, in a pretty clear rebuke to Michelle Obama's "we go high" credo. A strong argument, yet many analysts in both parties argued that his inserting himself into the Brett Kavanaugh confirmation process hurt the Democrats' case and helped Republicans.



In 2016, Hillary Clinton argued we are "stronger together" -- and lost. Today, she believes "you cannot be civil with a political party that wants to destroy what you stand for, what you care about. ... If we are fortunate enough to win back the House and/or the Senate, that's when civility can start again. But until then, the only thing that the Republicans seem to recognize and respect is strength."


Republicans want to lump Clinton and Avenatti together, but I think there's a difference between being strong (Hillary) and trying to beat Trump at his own game (Avenatti). If you get in the gutter with Trump, no one will be able to tell the difference between the two of you. A three-round mixed martial arts fight between Avenatti and Donald Trump Jr. may be a spectacle to rival one of Trump's press conferences, but really, have we gone that low?................

[Kurt V.]

91. What's his +/-?

he could be useful for now

[lordbateman]

95. actually your constant attacks of him is what is getting old (nt)

[empedocles]

96. Trolls here?

[Vinca]

97. Sorry, but I agree with Avenatti.

Gore should have fought like hell in 2000. Kerry should have demanded an investigation into the voting machine controversy in southern Ohio in 2004. Democrats in government should have warned us about Russia and also spilled the beans that there was an investigation going on re Trump and Russia. Sadly, we sit around and pick lint out of our navels and mutter about hoping for bi-partisanship, civility and reason. Then we get Trump and everything from babies in cages to overt grift on the taxpayer dime. No more kumbayah.

[brush]

99. Baboom! I love it and agree 100%

Last edited Sat Oct 13, 2018, 09:44 PM - Edit history (1)

[lancelyons]

104. He is fighting the same fight we are. Stop the attacks on our own.

[Cicada]

106. He's Italian. In woody Allen's sleeper, 200 years distant, only Italians still procreated

[Afromania]

107. Real leadership is about getting out front and saying let's go. Do all that you can whenever you can

do the most and keep on fighting. You don't spend all your time calling people out you spend it lifting them up. It's going to take all hands to get the results we want in the midterms. this beating up on fellow Democrats is a waste of time in addition to being a moral killer.

He was talking about maybe running for president? If he still is considering it he needs to act like it get to lifting because the kick he's on right now isn't going to cut it. Every time this shit starts it just makes it that much harder. We need to be as much as a monolith as republican voters.

[brush]

112. Which should mean stop attacking him too with these constant threads...

on DU when he's the only fighting back, that is until recently when Hillary and Holder echoed his stance.

[Squinch]

108. We need lots more like him.

[diva77]

109. Avenatti only occupies a molecule of media space compared to the gluttonous wingnut media

I'm all for anybody who can make a dent in the corporate media juggernaut. How many hours a day is Limburger, alone, polluting the airwaves? Fux is on 24/7.

Not sure what harm people think he is causing? Even if he got something wrong, at least he's calling attention to Democratic issues and truth.

[Gothmog]

110. I have been tired of Avenatti for a while

[Quixote1818]

111. Un-rec nt

[fallout87]

115. Agreed 100%

It amazes me that a lot of democrats are ok with him attack our party. This clown is only out for himself. He single handedly tanked our fight against the Kavanaugh nomination.

[backscatter712]

116. Avenatti's right. Democrats need to stop being nice.

I ran completely out of interest in civility with the fascists when they started putting kids in concentration camps.

As far as I'm concerned, a state of war has existed between Republicans and decent people.

I'm no longer interested in listening to the Neville Chamberlains wailing for peace in our time.