Four devastating paragraphs by W.E.B. Du Bois, on Robert E. Lee

[bigtree]

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...short essay from DuBois on Robert E. Lee’s legacy published in 1928.

Each year on the 19th of January there is renewed effort to canonize Robert E. Lee, the greatest confederate general. His personal comeliness, his aristocratic birth and his military prowess all call for the verdict of greatness and genius. But one thing–one terrible fact–militates against this and that is the inescapable truth that Robert E. Lee led a bloody war to perpetuate slavery. Copperheads like the New York Times may magisterially declare: “of course, he never fought for slavery.” Well, for what did he fight? State rights? Nonsense. The South cared only for State Rights as a weapon to defend slavery. If nationalism had been a stronger defense of the slave system than particularism, the South would have been as nationalistic in 1861 as it had been in 1812.

No. People do not go to war for abstract theories of government. They fight for property and privilege and that was what Virginia fought for in the Civil War. And Lee followed Virginia. He followed Virginia not because he particularly loved slavery (although he certainly did not hate it), but because he did not have the moral courage to stand against his family and his clan. Lee hesitated and hung his head in shame because he was asked to lead armies against human progress and Christian decency and did not dare refuse. He surrendered not to Grant, but to Negro Emancipation.

Today we can best perpetuate his memory and his nobler traits not by falsifying his moral debacle, but by explaining it to the young white south. What Lee did in 1861, other Lees are doing in 1928. They lack the moral courage to stand up for justice to the Negro because of the overwhelming public opinion of their social environment. Their fathers in the past have condoned lynching and mob violence, just as today they acquiesce in the disfranchisement of educated and worthy black citizens, provide wretchedly inadequate public schools for Negro children and endorse a public treatment of sickness, poverty and crime which disgraces civilization.

It is the punishment of the South that its Robert Lees and Jefferson Davises will always be tall, handsome and well-born. That their courage will be physical and not moral. That their leadership will be weak compliance with public opinion and never costly and unswerving revolt for justice and right. it is ridiculous to seek to excuse Robert Lee as the most formidable agency this nation ever raised to make 4 million human beings goods instead of men. Either he knew what slavery meant when he helped maim and murder thousands in its defense, or he did not. If he did not he was a fool. If he did, Robert Lee was a traitor and a rebel–not indeed to his country, but to humanity and humanity’s God.

read: http://cwmemory.com/2017/05/30/w-e-b-dubois-on-robert-e-lee/

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[HopeAgain]

1. Trump, a new yorker, harkening back to the Confederacy

Is nothing more than racist dog whistles.

[Hulk]

18. He would sell his own mother

...to hang on to his dwindling fan base of idiots and ameriKKKa’s trash.

[raging moderate]

27. NY had many pro-slavery people.

Actually, there were a lot of secret Confederacy sympathizers throughout the North. Some of them showed each other a penny as a secret sign, and they were called copperheads. Other Northerners thought the name "copperhead" was appropriate because these people were like the silent poisonous snakes of the same name.

[pansypoo53219]

45. its a fog horn w/ this cracker.

[pretzel4gore]

52. Trump farted, Clement Valladingham

was the resulting stench...lol! I recall reading in Bruce Catton how ole Abe had the treasonous jackass jidnapped and exiled to the south..haha. Val hadda go to Europe then Canada to get home, Abe just had him dumped south AGAIN! I believe this was partly why the souther sympathizers so hate ands accuse Lincoln of tyranny etc

[RDANGELO]

2. There was a General Thomas who was from Virginia who stayed with the Union.

He was forsaken from the South and his own relatives as a traitor. He emerged as one of the North's most able generals. He isn't brought up much in the discussions of the war.

[SunSeeker]

4. Thank you for bringing up General Thomas.

Odd that we have more statues of the traitors who lost rather than the heroes who won the Civil War.

[Jim Lane]

20. Thomas was also the leading general to stand up for black soldiers

Other Union generals thought that the black soldiers (known then as the United States Colored Troops) were inherently inferior, just because of their race. Thomas rejected that view. He depended on units of the USCT for a key role in the Battle of Nashville. His willingness to trust them was rewarded when they performed bravely and contributed to a major Union victory. Afterward, Thomas wrote that the battle had shown that black troops were just as capable as white ones.

As you say, he was despised by his Virginia relatives. None of them attended his funeral.

[raging moderate]

26. What was General Thomas's first name?

He sounds wonderful.

[dalton99a]

29. General George Henry Thomas

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/catching-up-with-old-slow-trot-148045684/
Catching Up With “Old Slow Trot”
Stubborn and deliberate, General George Henry Thomas was one of the Union’s most brilliant strategists. So why was he cheated by history?
By Ernest B. Furgurson
March 2007

[Blue_true]

34. The guy deserves his own statue on the National Mall.

He was by far the best General in the war. He never lost a battle and saved the Union Army's cookies multiple times. In addition to the "Slow Trot" nickname you gave, he was also called The Rock of Chickamauga because his army stood firm against the confederate as Union forces around it retreated in disarray, he and his leaders collected fleeing Union soldiers and organized them into battalions that held off the confederates long enough for the the routed Union forces to reorganize.

He was also known as the Hammer of Nashville after his army tracked down a large confederate army that was retreating from Atlanta and destroyed it near Nashville.

He took what resources were given to him and organized impressive fighting forces. Yet, he was not trusted due to his southern birth, even as he did nothing to cause concern about loyalty. He took on and defeated the socalled great confederate generals, Stonewall Jackson, Johnston, Hood. He never sought credit and was known and loved by his men as a soldier's soldier. He was a champion for Black Union soldiers, fighting to get them respect and trusting units of Black soldiers in all of his fights. He didn't seek wealth from writing his memoirs and was said to have burned all of his notes and diary entries so that no one else could write about him. Truly one of the greatest Americans to ever live, IMO.

[Jim Lane]

39. Even your summary understates Thomas's achievement

You write that Thomas's army "tracked down a large confederate army that was retreating from Atlanta and destroyed it near Nashville." The Confederates weren't retreating, they were attacking.

Sherman had divided his force, taking a big army on his famous march to the sea from Atlanta. Hood was still leading a formidable Confederate army, now in Sherman's rear. Hood took advantage of the division of the Union forces to move north. Thomas, with what was left of the Union forces in that theater, had to try to stop him. (As an aside, Sherman's march made great theater and had some political merit in damaging Southern morale, but, militarily, it was questionable. He did not attack any significant body of Confederate troops. His decision left Tennessee, and points further north, open to Hood's advance.)

As you say, Thomas, who was left to stop Hood, had to make do with the limited forces available to him. The result was his resounding victory at the Battle of Nashville, where he smashed Hood's army so badly that it was no longer a serious threat.

Thomas absolutely deserves statues and other recognition.

[Blue_true]

44. One critical other thing that I missed.

There are some civil war historians that say that Thomas' victory over the powerful southern force unde Hood had a major bearing on Lee making the decision to surrender soon after. Lee's southern flank got so decimated, that he had no protection from the southern Union armies (Sherman's, Thomas', Sheridan's curling north and trapping the remnant southern armies between themselves and Grant's armies fighting down from the north.

There are two southern generals that deserve shrines on the National Mall. Thomas, of course as a Union master strategist, but there was a confederate general who became sheriff afte the war and instead of continuing the hatred, ordered men under his command to protect newly freed Black citizens, and he did that for his whole administration.

[pansypoo53219]

46. how come he is not at all mentioned by ken burn's? thanks for the history lesson.

[Blue_true]

48. He truly is a large forgotten figure in American history.

Why was he forgotten? Some was he didn't seem to relish public renown. But more likely, he was an other, a southerner of privilege background in the Union Army, an advocate for unpopular ideas (Black could be good soldiers, fighting war from a strategy and adjusting on the battlefield as conditions dictated).
He was THE critical General to Grant's success on the western flank, yet when Grant was promoted, the armies came under Sherman's overall command.

As the debate on confederate monuments rages, General George Henry Thomas and regional and national shrines to him should be injected into that debate.

[GulfCoast66]

53. I love Ken Burns.

But I think Shelby Foote influenced him way to much. His(Foote’s) 3 volume history of the civil war are a great read. As you would expect from a truly great fiction writer But he took liberties with known facts and the books just have an overall sympathy with the southern soldiers if not the cause. He was a lifelong friend of Percy Walker, another great Mississippi writer. The volume of their lifelong letters is a great read.

Although he supported civil rights, his views of the war were too shaped by the myths he learned as a child in the early 1900’s Mississippi Delta. He even admitted as much.

[dalton99a]

28. Sherman thought very highly of Thomas

[raging moderate]

30. Thank you!

George Henry Thomas. I will look him up.

[Blue_true]

35. Impressive man. One of the greatest Americans, IMO. nt

[raging moderate]

36. Yes, Wikipedia has a good article on him. George Henry Thomas.

Last edited Tue Oct 16, 2018, 08:58 AM - Edit history (1)

I see he has a statue in Washington, DC. A great man!

[Blue_true]

37. He deserves his own shrine on the national mall. nt

[SunSeeker]

3. K & R

[calimary]

5. From the profound to the profane.

[iluvtennis]

17. Exactly.

[BadgerMom]

6. Great passage.

Very apropos. Thanks for sharing.

[First Speaker]

7. Du Bois' "Black Reconstruction" is one of the greatest works of history ever written in the US...

...and maybe the first book to try and actually tell the truth about that most misunderstood of all epochs in our history...

[Solomon]

24. Absolutely. A true work of art. Should be required reading for every American.

[Grassy Knoll]

8. My Bartender Told Me "We Got No More Liquor "

[raging moderate]

10. Robert E. Lee DID love slavery.

He loved having other people do all of his hard, dirty work for him. He loved ordering Black men and women to be whipped. He loved to urge the overseers to lay it on heavily. This has been documented.

[Grassy Knoll]

11. You Just Described My Current Supervisor

[raging moderate]

12. Hang in there!

There is life after this job! You will see.

[ProudProgressiveNow]

9. KR NT

[grantcart]

13. I wonder how bitter the tears of Lee's heirs must be when they see

Arlington Cemetery and wonder how rich they might be if only. . .

[keithbvadu2]

14. States' Rights were the right to conduct the slave trade.

States' Rights were the right to conduct the slave trade.

[Wounded Bear]

19. Throughout our history, States' Rights has been used...

to defend the most odious of our habits and institutions.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

31. There are many beliefs, principles and ideals that have been used as excuse...

...for some of the greatest abuses ever committed. States rights is a misnomer. In the Constitution the term "rights" is not mentioned. The Bill of Rights describes rights and powers. While powers are accorded to both the people and to bodies of government, rights are only described as being possessed by the people.

Having said all that and, in particular, regarding the Civil War, there are some huge and important facts:
* Nothing can justify slavery. All limitations to liberty must respect individual rights and it is ironic that the states should be designated as the first level of government charged with protecting individual rights.
* IMHO, tolerance of slavery was an evil political compromise that unified the states during the revolution but divided them through the next hundred years and after.
* US isolationism in its early history limited contact with many foreign governments but was an untenable concept.

[Pope George Ringo II]

38. Virginia does have one of the better arguments, though

The state legislature took a vote on whether or not to secede over slavery, and voted not to. To be clear, most of the rest of the CSA failed this test at the first opportunity.

Subsequently, Lincoln called for troops to put down the rebellion, and Virginia took a vote on whether or not to secede over federal use of force to compel membership, and that time they voted to secede.

The argument that they took a purely moral stand is also the argument that the pro-slavery secessionists didn't really just vote to secede over slavery twice and manage to pick up a few more votes in the second go-round, which may not be the strongest argument out there. But while I would bet that time for the legislators to stew on it, take the pulse of the constituencies, and bow to peer pressure played a big part in the difference, it certainly does seem that doubts about the legitimacy of federal use of force had a role in putting Virginia over the top.

[Jim Lane]

55. That wasn't just Virginia, it was the non-deep South.

After Lincoln's election but before his inauguration, seven deep-South states announced their purported secessions: South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, and Texas. The then President, Buchanan, had no stomach for doing anything about it.

Lincoln took office with, as he saw it, an oath registered in Heaven to preserve the Union. His call for troops to put down the rebellion was, as you say, what caused Virginia to change its mind. In addition, though, it was a factor in the pro-CSA announcements of Arkansas, North Carolina, and Tennessee.

The Confederate battle flag commonly used as a symbol by contemporary white supremacists has eleven stars. Those are the eleven states represented.

[Pope George Ringo II]

57. Yeah, the sequence was a lot more drawn-out than we usually tend to act like it was.

You're absolutely right that it was a series of defections over months rather than the lot going the same instant as Hollywood tends to tell us. It wasn't an accident that the CSA set up shop in Montgomery, AL, before switching to Richmond as soon as that became realistic. And Texas didn't cover itself in glory by sending a delegation to the CSA capital before it even officially seceded. Still, I would suggest that Virginia is something of a special case for motivation because it did actually split in two over secession, not nearly offset by the District of Columbia reclamation. It's also particularly relevant when talking about Lee's situation. It's as good a poster child as any.

I also find the language interesting. Prior to 1861, usage often had "The United States" as a plural, but after 1865 it became a singular in almost all contexts. It's clearly not a states' right to do something particular involved, but that does show the states--even the Union ones--effectively being demoted.

At any rate, the entire rebellion gets more complicated the more accurate you try to be, and I do think that applies to causes, methods, and resolution. That bumper cotton crop of 1860 really screwed with southern heads to an astonishing degree, for example. There was more going on, but I think the essentials are that they were pro-slavery, they lost, and that's okay.

[rwsanders]

15. And kids in school will hear the name "Robert E. Lee", but probably never the name W.E.B. DuBois...

and thus we have an imbecile as POTUS.

[Xipe Totec]

16. Trump is just like Robert E. Lee,

But without his personal comeliness, his aristocratic birth or his military prowess.

[oasis]

21. "The truth shall set you free." The more I learn about Lee,

the more disgust I have for his worshippers.

[Wounded Bear]

33. Here's another nugget...

as an amateur historian familiar with much of the Civil War, much of Lee's (and Stonewall Jackson's ) "genius" was borne of necessity because he was always basically out numbered and out gunned. Lee was a bit too fond of frontal assaults that resulted in massive casualties and very little tactical success.

[oasis]

40. "Pickett's Charge" was a colossal military blunder. 100% on Lee.

Last edited Sat Oct 13, 2018, 02:45 PM - Edit history (1)

"Military Genius" Lee overruled the objections of his Generals Longstreet and Pickett. The propping up of Lee is just another component of "Old South" romanticism. It's all growing stale.

[Wounded Bear]

41. Especially since he had done basically the same thing the year before...

at Malvern Hill.

I don't think Pickett disagreed until after the war. There was a bit of a back and forth in the press and books post war. Most southerners blamed Longstreet.

[oasis]

42. It seems the reputations of both Longstreet and Pickett

were sacrificed upon the altar of the Lee myth. Dimwits must have their legends cling to.

[Nitram]

50. Actually, Bear, Lee usually won because he chose excellent topography and dug in to defend

against the much larger Union forces. When he made frontal assaults like he did at Gettysburg, he lost.

[Wounded Bear]

51. More late in the war than early...

Early in the war, Lee almost always took the offensive. The Seven Days, 2d Manasses, Chancelorsville, all the way down to the Wilderness. After that, he ended up reacting to Grant, who followed a new strategy of continuing the campaign, even after the inital battle. His only real defensive battles were at Fredricksburg and Antietam. Lee was offensive minded.

Almost all major frontal attacks in the Civil War failed. The only real exception that comes to mind is Missionary Ridge, which most historians can't explain.

I'm not saying Lee was a bad general, just that he's a bit over-hyped IMHO. The political climate in the Union during the early years of the war made it an almost foregone conclusion that they would pick crappy generals to lead, especially in the East.

[Nitram]

56. Oh, I agree he made major errors. The biggest being Gettysburg.

If he had marched to undefended Philadelphia instead of stopping to fight at Gettysburg, the North would have sued for peace. There was nothing between his army and Philadelphia.

[Scurrilous]

22. K&R

[Martin Eden]

23. K&R for W.B.

The truth is Lee fought for a morally corrupt cause.

Same goes for all the other Confederate "heroes" like Stonewall Jackson, who was oh so piously religious.

[ck4829]

25. K&R

[Kurt V.]

32. K&R

Du Bois is good for the soul

[rags17]

43. The Southerns states are the only part of America that has ever experiecned defeat in war

The big problem is that the North never rubbed their noses in it.

The South Shall Rise Again my ass

[kskiska]

47. Did you know

that in 1976 President Gerald Ford restored Robert E. Lee's citizenship that was stripped from him after the Civil War? Then in 1978 President Jimmy Carter signed into law legislation posthumously restoring Jefferson Davis’s full citizenship rights. Not that it did them much good by then.

[Nitram]

49. Excellent piece, thank you for sharing.

[zentrum]

54. Kick.