Local View: Gun-storage law would be ineffective, unconstitutional

[riversedge]

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Local View: Gun-storage law would be ineffective, unconstitutional

CHRIS KOPACKI Oct 10, 2018


A radical gun-control group, Lincoln-based Nebraskans Against Gun Violence (NAGV), is seeking to punish Lincoln’s honest hard-working gun owners for the acts of criminals.

The group is proposing restrictive gun control mandates, sometimes called Child Access Prevention (CAP) laws, that would micromanage the lives of Lincoln’s law-abiding gun owners. If adopted, these measures would make it harder for Lincoln residents to protect and defend themselves while doing nothing to stop criminals.

The group hasn’t provided any details on exactly what kind of firearms storage they would find acceptable. However, generally CAP laws impose criminal and/or civil liability on parents, guardians or other adults when firearms are not stored in a locked safe, secured with a locking device or otherwise rendered unavailable for immediate use.

These measures are unnecessary, ineffective and would put law-abiding gun owners at risk.

Nebraska already has laws to punish people who are careless with their firearm storage. Under existing Nebraska law, anyone who “knowingly, intentionally, or negligently causes or permits a minor child to be placed in a situation that endangers his or her life or physical or mental health” commits the crime of child abuse. A person convicted of negligently endangering a child in this way where the child is harmed faces anywhere from three to 25 years in prison.

A study titled "Safe Storage Gun Laws: Accidental Deaths, Suicides, and Crime" finds no evidence that CAP laws reduce either juvenile accidental firearm deaths or suicides. Instead, these laws appear to make it harder for law-abiding gun owners to protect themselves...........................................

[WeekiWater]

1. We need to see some states stand up and require insurance for gun ownership. N/T

[hack89]

2. Insurance companies are not interested - no money in it for them

the risk pool is so large and accidents so infrequent that the premiums would be so low that it is hard to see how the insurance companies could make a profit.

[WeekiWater]

3. That really doesn't make much sense.

I currently have an insurance plan for a particular item that costs me nine dollars per month. Insurance companies aren't my concern. They would jump on it. I do get what you are saying that insurance companies hold us all hostage. This would just be another area.

"accidents" are not that infrequent. They also require enormous payouts.

Insurance companies currently provide insurance for the value of guns themselves. Some don't even require it to be of a significant value. It should be required that they carry liability insurance. I doubt the gun humpers will view the price to be as low as you.

You can currently buy liability insurance for your firearm.

[hack89]

4. Care to guess who one the the largest sellers of gun insurance is?

You would make the NRA a fortune - especially if they gave deep discounts if you joined and if they promised to use your membership money to fight gun control.

Can you imagine a NRA with a congressionally mandated revenue stream and a vastly expanded membership?

[WeekiWater]

9. They wouldn't be and aren't the only game in town.

Are they currently the largest holder of liability packages?

Excuse for anything that would limit guns and require more responsible gun ownership.

[hack89]

11. How many gun owners would join the NRA to get rid of the insurance mandate?

All the other insurance companies would be begging for a NRA stamp of approval

[WeekiWater]

13. You started off by saying no one would want to have anything to do with it.

Now you are talking like it’s a gold mine.

The NRA gaining members because of sensible gun legislation is no concern of mine. It makes no sense to make it a concern. Don’t do something because an advocacy group will get stronger. That doesn’t even rise to the level f a debatable argument.

Constitutionally legal is what it would be.

[hack89]

15. True - not really worth arguing about

It will never happen nor is anyone pushing hard for it. For one thing, no one can demonstrate any link between insurance and reducing gun deaths. The people you have to be concerned about are not the people that will be buying insurance.

[haele]

5. No money for them in event insurance, either - but it's a requirements for most venues.

If I hold "an event" - a block party, a wedding, a marathon, a music performance - at a city, county, or state park that has more than 50 attendees overall, I need to include event insurance.

Even for a kid's birthday party where there's nothing more dangerous than a grill and coolers being brought, I need event insurance if there's going to be a large enough crowd in a public venue to trigger a permit.
If I sponsor after-school clubs or symposiums at both public and private campuses, I need event insurance - for each instance of the event.

Using a private housing area, church, or business "common area" for a party where there's an inflatable jump house or a live DJ and alcohol? Unless you're the owner, you'll probably be required to have event insurance to get permission.

So what if it's only an average of $10 plus under-writing for each event with additional $5 - $10 add-ons for extra considerations like alcohol, per every estimated 50 - 100 attendees or special vehicle use during the event?
Spouse and I are running an afterschool club at an elementary school that meets once a week for about 18 events. We did a lot of shopping around to find the best one that met the requirements the school set for us - $1 mil liability.

What we found out was this - the majority of event insurance - about 70% - is for birthday parties and weddings - which are usually once a year or one-time events. The average "cost" per application is around $30 for the event. And there are events going on all the time; most of the city parks and beaches around here require permits three or four months in advance, and a year in advance for the most part.

After school events (Scouting, Camp Fire, "clubs", etc) are the next largest group of applicants - around 20% according to most insurance companies we looked at. The average cost for yearly "once a week" or "every other weekend" coverage for these groups with attendance around, say 20 - 25 kids and adults is around $50 - $75 annually - including the under-writing. We ended up paying $50 for the year total, which was about what every other after-school club (including band, dance, and the various martial arts classes) at the school is paying.

As you said, "the risk pool is so large and accidents are so infrequent, the premiums are low enough that it is hard to see how the insurance companies could make a profit?"

It's still pretty much free money for the insurance company, because there are so few claims for accidents or damages at the majority of events that occurred as part of the event.

Haele

[hack89]

6. It would make the NRA a fortune considering they are a big seller of gun insurance

especially if they gave deep premium discounts if you joined and if they promised to use your membership money to fight gun control.

Can you imagine a NRA with a congressionally mandated revenue stream and a vastly expanded membership?

You need to consider the potential unintended consequences.

[haele]

8. I do. NRA will be laughing all the way to the bank.

Insurance isn't like the old days, where you had actual agents in each community to handle claims, with supporting staff of handlers.

All the NRA (or some "insurance" boiler room operation) would need would be a centralized one-stop online customer service, sales, and claim service center to interface with "members", a second tier level of a few dozen adjusters and customer service people, with the third tier manager and financial/legal services people, a small admin and operations staff, and finally two or three agents per district or most likely region most to actually go out and interact with the police or the customers to investigate claims.
So, maybe a couple million per year - maybe $3 mil rounding around in costs to include taxes, capital expenses, and the executives?
Maybe a million or so in claims per year?

And at least $50 - $150 million per year revenue from the policy holders who now have to get insurance, or face punitive fines and potential jail from state and local governments when they do something stupid that brings attention to them?

Who wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of that sort of money?

Think about all the established scam auto and health insurance companies that focus on providing junk policies they have no intent on ever paying on to a captive public looking for cheap coverage - for decades. Whether that insurance was required by law or not.

Haele

[spanone]

7. what they meant to say was that the kids right to shoot themselves or others would be infringed upon

[Kaleva]

10. NRA stresses the importance of properly securing firearms when not in use.

But for some reason, they oppose an enactment of a law that mandates it.

[NutmegYankee]

12. I oppose laws that are unconstitutional to enforce.

The laws of basically every state already specify punishments for allowing guns to fall into the hands of children. If a person lives alone or no children, I neither see any valid legal reason to invoke requirements on that person nor do I see any Constitutional method to enforce such a law.

Again, how would such a law be enforced? Mandatory home searches?

[Caliman73]

14. The study cited is from 2000 and authored by John Lott.

Lott is an economist who is a favorite of people who advocate for unfettered access to firearms and who think that a gun in the hand of everyone in America (Likely not Black or Brown people) would make America safer. His co-author Whitely is another economist, likely right wing. Currently serving as Assistant Secretary of the Army appointed by Trump.

Here is a link to the paper for anyone interested. It is 72 pages long and I have no desire to read it.

Just click the Open in PDF box to open it.

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=228534.