Where have all the "Christians" gone ...

[NanceGreggs]

Last edited Fri Oct 12, 2018, 01:06 PM - Edit history (1)

… long time passing? Where have all the Christians gone, long time ago?

Where have all the Christians gone? Gone to Trump-humpers, every one. Oh, when will they ever learn?"

Well, folks, it seems obvious that those self-declared “good Christians” have abandoned their much-touted principles – assuming they ever had such principles in the first place – in order to worship the lying, pussy-grabbing Orange Calf who represents everything they once pretended to abhor.

A self-proclaimed pussy-grabber is now their idol. A man who has lied, cheated, and stolen from hard-working Americans has now replaced The Nazareen, who admonished his followers to care for the hungry, the sick, and the homeless.

Those “good Christians” who once touted their adherence to Jesus’ teachings are now fully supporting a “pResident”, and a party, that ignores those teachings when politically convenient – and what “convenience” they expect in return is anybody’s guess.

Where are the “Christians” who once abhorred bearing false witness when this “pResident” lies on a daily basis, and seeks revenge against those who oppose him?

Where are the “Christians” who have endlessly bragged about their superior morals, their unwavering adherence to Christ’s authority over their lives, their immovable stand against those who choose to ignore the very principles that Jesus himself set out in no uncertain terms?

Gone to Trump-humpers, every one.

Oh, when will they ever learn? Apparently never, because today’s so-called “Christians” have now shown themselves to be no more interested in their religious beliefs than they’re interested in their country or the well-being of their fellow man.

Message received, “good Christians” – and fully noted.


Edited to Add:

The above OP is not about all Christians – it is about the Trumpster so-called “Christians” who have apparently abandoned all of the teachings of Christ.

I thought that was clear by the way I’ve described them. Obviously, it wasn’t clear at all – which is the fault of the author, and not the fault of the reader.

I apologize for not being as clear as I should have been, and to anyone who thought I was taking a shot at true Christians who have no relation at all to the Trump-humper “Christians” we now have to deal with.

[manor321]

1. Christians have been trying to force everyone to be Christian for 2000 years

They never change.

[Xolodno]

18. Incorrect.

The success of Christianity was due to something very economically simple;

1. Many Non-Jews wanted to convert to the Jewish Religion, because;
a. You got a day off once a week.
b. You got a week off twice a year for Passover and Feast of Tabernacles.
c. Pagan religions demanded you attend a temple every year and pay tribute...in the Jewish religion. If you made it once in your lifetime your were good.

2. The Jewish authority, realizing the possible swarm of converts and possible head aches that came with it, plus ethnic-racism, made it very difficult to convert, if not impossible.

3. The Jewish Sect of Christianity, began accepting converts without the restrictions...this gives a tell about the Temple's priesthood waning influence. Probably what led to the three way revolt in Jerusalem which resulted in the destruction.

4. Emperor Constantine declared Christianity the official State Religion....one problem with that, Christianity was very fractured and independent. Two Christian Churches could be on the same block but very different. So he forced Christianity to conform into a unified dogma.

So, a pagan emperor forced Christians to accept a unified dogma.

5. Things go back and forth for awhile depending on the Emperor. But eventually, Paganism is outlawed, along with "Christian Heresies"...that is, Christian Churches who refused the official dogma. Persecutions follow.

6. Fast forward, the Protestant Reformation in the Western Church known as Catholicism and Non-Conformity in the largest Orthodox Church in the East, Russian Orthodox, new Christian Religions, Sects and Cults are borne. And given a past of massive Church corruption with the state, many new nations exclude the church from state.

7. Today, fundamentalist Christians advocate a reunion of Church and State...and ignore the corruption, persecution, etc. of the past. At one time, Protestant religions along with the Catholic religion funded, hospitals, orphanages, community centers, etc. and open to all regardless of religion. The Charity they provided, was all the advertisement they needed.

Now, those funds create "religious retreats", fund political motivated sermons, create some fancy churches, etc...and who knows, fund campaigns via shadow transactions.

But those funds need to be replenished, so even a "temporary Christian" who is duped, is a duped person who will provide funds for that time.

[Takket]

2. I know where they will be November 6th..............

and if we want our country back, we damn well better be there to meet them.

[Gothmog]

3. K&R

[cally]

4. Please don,t place all Christians in the same category

The TV evangelicals who purport to speak for all Christians do not by a long shot. There are vast differences among Christians, their practices, and their beliefs. You would be shocked to walk into a liberal Christian church who preach tolerance, helping others, offering refuge and help to those in need. I’ve been to churches literally offering refuge to those about to be deported. Interfaith groups routinely organize to set up homeless housing, for prison reform, for feeding those in need, and for environmental justice. These churches are extremely liberal.

[jberryhill]

6. Those churches are also extremely small and unrepresentative

The numbers don’t lie:

[NanceGreggs]

9. I appreciate that.

But here's the problem: I don't see those who purport to be "true Christians" denouncing those who have hijacked their religion.

I don't see "true Christians" marching in the street in order to counter the hypocrites who are preaching the opposite of Christ's teachings.

I don't see "true Christians" fighting to overthrow those who are wrongfully representing what Christianity means, and the principles it stands for.

In times like these, "turning the other cheek" is not a demonstration of holier-than-thou virtue - it is a sign of go-along-to-get-along cowardice.

If anyone has a righteous motive to fight back against the faux-Christians, it's the real Christians - and their collective silence is deafening.

[madamesilverspurs]

10. Ah, but there are good people of faith

who are marching for good causes and against bad ones. And they are representing their faith in how they live their lives. They're the ones who aren't telling us, loudly and often, what good Christians they are. Instead of beating on others with their bibles, they're quietly letting their light shine, providing help and assurance and a better example in the process. And when they find themselves splattered by rottenness from purloined pulpits, they wipe it off and turn that other cheek toward continuing what the founder of their faith would have them do. I am fortunate to know many of them, and am comforted by their presence; I am especially amazed at their forbearance when they find themselves lumped in with those who have co-opted the faith and corrupted its message.

Unfortunately for me, I'm too mouthy to be among them. I'd rather get in the faces of the pretenders, and I do. Happily, though, I'm still spry enough to duck when I have to. And having my cane handy doesn't hurt...



.

[stopbush]

35. They are good people in spite of their faith, not because of it.

Christianity is an anti-human, patriarchal, misogynistic, bigotted cult of death, based entirely on make believe and male privilege. The seeds that sprout “bad” Christians happen to be fundamental to the faith. So in fact, whether you are a fundamentalist or a liberal Christian, your degree of liberality springs entirely from forces and ideas that lie outside your religion.

[Stonepounder]

11. That's because we don't need an excuse to fight against Trump and the Rethugs in Congress.

We can fight because 'it is the right thing to do'.

We can fight because 'Trump's policies are morally repugnant'.

We can fight because 'It is not what America stands for'.

We can fight because 'We believe that all men are created equal and are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, among which are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.'

We can fight because 'We believe that we are doing the right thing for ourselves, our fellow humans, and the world; and we don't have to trumpet that some old guy with a long white beard sitting on a celestial throne commands us to do it.'

That's why you don't see "Christians" marching or fighting or denouncing the "faux-Christians".

Matthew 6:6 King James Version (KJV)
6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

From Stonepounders translations from the New Testament:
In other words, screw the Mega-Churches where they shout their 'Christianity' from the rooftops and buy they so-called pastors jet planes. Not by their words but from their works ye shall know them.

[phylny]

23. Christian here! Presbyterian elder, Stephen Minister.

Yes to all you have written. My church, an ecumenical one with unaffiliated, Episcopalian, Lutheran, and Presbyterian members often has sermons from our pastors (one man, one woman) on our responsibility to feed, clothe, and care for our fellow citizens. There are sermons about welcoming others in to our country. About respecting God's creation and people. On speaking truth to power.

What you won't hear are any political demands, telling us we're sinners unless we vote for candidates with (R) after their names.

I pray for our country and our world to be delivered from this evil.

[rwsanders]

12. You don't see it because the "liberal" MSM doesn't want you to see it.

Even before the corporate take over of the media*, reasonable voices don't sell (according to them). So you will only hear the extremes or the caricatures of various groups.
There are voices out there, but you have to search for them. My favorite is Jim Wallis of a group called Sojourners.
www.sojo.net
But here is another:
http://www.thechristianleft.org/

OK, probably won't help, but I'll tell you a story or two about us. At first my wife thought I was too confrontation, but now she will do it too, if we have to find a new church we just straight up ask if they are teaching the bible or the republican party platform.

Right now we are in a big church so you never know what kind of idiot will wander in. So I spot a kid one week wearing a NRA hat. So to me, since no one asked him to remove it, all bets are off. So I bought and wore a shirt that had Captain America punching Hitler and it said "Fighting Nazis is an American Tradition, Stop the Alt-right". Too far for the wife, she was mad all service.

We're now walking for even minor deviations. I hate the racist "conventional wisdom" taught in church that says "the country went to hell when prayer was taken out of schools in 1964". Well this basically says that everything was hunky-dory prior to 1964 which is pure Buffalo Bagels. I think that came out of the opposition to civil rights, not the prayer thing. But even if I am wrong, it still ignores the fact that prior to '64 discrimination was legal. We heard it in a predominantly African-American church and never went back.

But give me a microphone and you'll hear me. I'd love to be booked on Bill Maher, but he is an example of what I'm saying about extreme voices. If he wants a Christian to take pot-shots at, who does he book? The Coltergeist!

*Don't know when it happened, but I know they were fawning over Bush Sr. in the first assault on Iraq, and L. Fletcher Prouty says that the media has been pack with active CIA agents or has been forwarding stories for approval since WW2 (was to prevent loss of secrets at first, but rapidly morphed into psyops deployed domestically).

[PatrickforO]

14. There weren't many 'true' Christians in Germany, either.

Dietrich Bonhoeffer comes to mind, but so many turned their backs. It is said Pope Pius XII purposely ignored the Holocaust. And how many Christians here in the United States pressured our government to refuse to take Jewish refugees from the Nazis?

They are still doing that, only now it is brown-skinned immigrants bearing the brunt of this Christian hatred.

It is true many Christians really are good people, and dislike Trump, and even vote Democratic.

But, alas, too few. The majority seem to have forgotten the teachings of Christ, particularly those in Matthew, Chapters 5-8, and perhaps the Book of Acts. This is not the fault of Christ, who was an avatar, the latest in a long line of mythical crucified gods/kings. In fact the rite of baptism is just that - it symbolizes killing the old 'you' to allow a new you, one who is closer to God, to rise. The whole spiritual rebirth thing is ubiquitous across many faiths, actually.

I left the Christian church many years ago, mainly because I had difficulty with a dogma that says, "My way or else eternal hell."

Well, enough of that. I blather on sometimes. The collective silence of the Christians in the face of Trump is, as you say, deafening.

What is it they say?

Jesus wept.

[dembotoz]

20. Truth

[walkingman]

34. Good Post!

[LanternWaste]

30. That you don't see it may (may) be on you

Smaller, typical neighborhood congregations do not have the bully pulpit that comes with the notoriety of direct political involvement. These community churches do not make the five o'clock news... Meals on Wheels, clothing drives, blood drives, continuing education and GED assistance are easily drowned out by one, just one idiot remark from a megachurch pastor.

There is little go-along-to-get-along in these neighborhood parishes. No more I think, than any other organization of people, from political parties to families. There is however, a desire to tend to the immediate and direct hemorrhaging of local hunger and homelessness, of near-by unemployment and under-education at the expense of national radio spots, hour-long television money-marathons, and jets that receive the lion's share of talk.

And I get it. Smaller churches, the bulk of American congregations, are little more than corner lemonade stands when compared and contrasted to the Coca-Cola company of megachurches and televangelists.

The Wall Street Journal ain't gonna waste space on Suzy and Timmy's Homemade Lemonade Stand when Coke stocks are available for print, analyses and editorial any more than Pastor Dobesh at Park Trails Presbyterian will be talked about at the water cooler when Joel Osteen or Jim Baker do or say another idiot thing causing discussion and buzz from message boards to the board of directors.

We're not collectively silent, but our voices and hymns are simply and completely drowned out by the sound of commercial institutions which have effectively and efficiently branded themselves as the True American Christian™.

So it's little wonder to me that many people do not see these smaller, consistent efforts by smaller, consistent congregations... because everyone is instead, concentrating on the loud-mouthed pastor in a purple tux and limousine dishing out ready-made, controversial bullet points about culture, about race, and about politics to pad his fat-bottomed line and the upper crust.

Yes, you do see us marching in the streets... but we're marching with you, beside you, and behind you in a thousand different marches for a thousand different causes.

[Mariana]

44. But all of them think they're the true Christians

and that everyone who disagrees with them is doing it wrong. It is interesting that the most popular denominations are the ones that promote the most hatred and bigotry.

[mtnsnake]

29. What was she supposed to say to make her point? Where have SOME of the Christians gone?

The message I got from the OP was that the self-declared "good" Christians, obviously meaning all the phony ones and the hypocrites, are no where to be found at at time when the country could use a little positive spirituality, and then some.

Even if she was generalizing, which she wasn't, maybe that wouldn't be such a bad thing to start generalizing about the factions that are greatly responsible for putting a scumbag like Trump in office just to open up all of their eyes and perhaps cause the good ones to start thinking how Christianity for decades in this country hasn't been anything like it was supposed to be. How's that for a generalization?

[dawg day]

5. No true Christian-- or decent person-- would be able to condone Trump's treatment of the children

Trump's thugs are separating children from their parents, and his incompetents are then LOSING the kids.

Anyone who calls themselves a Christian who doesn't decry that isn't a true Christian. Jesus would never countenance this, and they know it.

They are Trumpians, and if there's a hell, well..... they should be worried.

[Haggis for Breakfast]

7. No longer christians

But christianists.

[Kajun Gal]

8. Great post. Not sure the younguns will understand the song, but I do and it is PERFECT!

[czarjak]

13. Fake Christians...

Aren’t Christians. Just sayin’.

[Initech]

15. The Evangelical wing of the GOP merged with the Infowars wing.

They've all turned into batshit crazy, racist hate mongers who think all liberals are crazy and everyone is coming to take their guns and Bibles away, but they love Jesus.

[Mariana]

45. This isn't a new thing. It's been going on for ages.

Their embrace of Trump was no surprise to anyone who's been paying attention.

[tavernier]

16. I am a Christian, despite the unpopularity on DU.

I am pro life, but also pro choice. Believe it or not, for most women the distinction isn’t difficult.

I have been a nurse for over forty years and have a solid background in science, and like Einstein, I believe that there is an intelligent source of all creation.

I absolutely believe in global warning. Only a nut job can’t see that happening.

As to my Christianity... well, that’s just a strange Faith thing. I could cite you hundreds of examples, and you would bend over to shoot them all down. But to me they have been moments of unexplainable enlightenment.

I believe Shakespeare said something about things that can’t be explained.

Anyway, there you go.

Feel free to mock. And then live in my shoes for 72 years.

[NanceGreggs]

21. I am not mocking you.

I am mocking the Evangelicals who have hijacked true Christianity - the ones who think Trump was "chosen by God" to promote racism, sow division, lock children in cages, and fuck an entire nation.

If you're not one of them (and I don't think you are), then I'm not talking about you.

I admire those who live up to the tenets of their faith, whatever faith they adhere to. Sadly, the Evangelicals don't practice Christianity - they simply wear the label, while being as unChristian as possible.

[uponit7771]

24. I am a Christian also, I believe most if not all the derision pointed at religion in general and on

... DU is the overtly fake folk who wont even try to walk the walk.

It's well known HRC and Obama are faithful Christians and there's little to no derision pointed at them because of their faith.

I am pro life and pro choice also, it's not that hard for dems to say they don't want the government telling women if and when to have children.

[stopbush]

36. Einstein did not believe in an intelligent source of creation.

I’m sick and tired of Christians like yourself twisting his words and outright lying about what he said and what he meant by what he said in a lame effort to misuse his words to support the puny thoughts behind your religion.

Please stop it.

[tavernier]

38. Didn't think I'd get "you people'd" on DU,

but I hope you get well soon. Sick AND tired probably calls for a little vacation on the beach. Have a rum drink while you’re there.

[stopbush]

42. I live about 5 miles inland from Laguna Beach, so I don't need to vacation

to get there.

Rum is way too sweet for my tastes.

That said, you’re still just another Xian misquoting Einstein. Hate to break it to you, but, yeah, you fall into that unnuanced group.

[J_William_Ryan]

39. Correct

As a Christian one can oppose abortion while defending a woman's right to privacy, it's perfectly consistent to do so.

The problem with Christian social conservatives is they seek to deny a woman her right to privacy by compelling her to give birth against her will through force of law.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

17. They're off buying Kanye albums

Evangelicals have no time for bullshit and gotta give mulligans

[MyOwnPeace]

27. Yes!

They're meeting with the ones who thought it was an abomination that PRESIDENT OBAMA dared to put his feet on the desk in the Oval Office, or that President Clinton had misbehaved with an intern in the Oval Office - and are now celebrating and bragging about their connection with "the Blacks" since Kanye spent his time in the Oval Office with IQ45.

[andym]

19. Jimmy Carter is an outstanding Christian.

As are many others who actually take Jesus' words to heart. That said, the reason so many Evangelicals vote Republican or even like Trump, is that he is giving them what they want: Supreme Court Justices who oppose abortion. It's abortion and the fallout from Roe v Wade that sent these people into the arms of GOP and Trump and keeps them there. I would imagine they think Trump is no worse than the adulterous and murderous King David, who the bible depicts as a flawed man of God.

[Mariana]

46. Why shouldn't they think Trump is no worse

than King David or any other "flawed man of God"? The Bible is chock full of stories about "flawed men of God" committing the most vile atrocities and being held up as heroes for it.

[uponit7771]

22. K&R, They sure don't want ne1 calling them on their BS

[Achilleaze]

25. Even the 'elect' shall be deceived. I read that somewhere.

[mercuryblues]

26. They are in the

Fox hole preparing for the war on Christmas

[lancelyons]

28. I consider myself a christian but I am appalled by many of the christian leaders that have not

I consider myself a christian but I am appalled by many of the christian leaders that have not spoken out.

they are willing to tolerate things that are against the teachings of God and Jesus to gain a few monetary victories.

Many of the christian leaders like Franklin Graham and many others have reduced their pool of people they can teach gods ways too by alienating and person who is not a republican.

They are far less effective at teaching gods ways because of this.


I am glad that he democratic party tries to separate itself from religion so they dont alienate those that are religious and those that are not.

[Mariana]

47. You think Franklin Graham teaches God's ways?

Would you take religious instruction from him?

[Sunsky]

31. Nancy I disagree with the generalization

This is BS. Do you know that Democrats believe in religious freedom? That means you are free to practice whichever religion you choose including christianity, or none if you wish. Did you know that to malign christianity is malign the predominant religion of some of our strongest Democratic base (African Americans and also Latinos)? Do you wish to isolate us? Maybe we shouldn't have a President Obama, Clinton etc because many of our Democratic leaders are professed Christians. Some of those you vote for are Christians.
The problem with many of us is that we do not understand christianity. Christianity is inclusive not exclusive. The same way I don't judge all muslims because of terrorists, don't judge all Christians because of the Christian extremists on the right. Jesus was not even welcomed by the extremists.
We are all good and bad, so I won't act like I'm a good Christian while others are bad Christians. However, there are many Christian Democrats like myself who are fighting for democracy, many in leadership position. Many Christians like myself are donating time, effort and money to help Democrats win in November.

[NanceGreggs]

32. The OP isn't about Christians.

It's about people promoting themselves as Christians who are anything but.

[Sunsky]

33. I thought the question was

Where are all the "good Christians"? Suggesting that the so called "good Christians" have now become Trump humpers etc.
I'm sorry if I misunderstood.

[Mariana]

48. It's not up to us to decide who's a real Christian and who isn't.

Only God can decide that.

[stopbush]

37. Excuse me, but you have the freedom to believe whatever you will.

That does not obligate others to respect those beliefs. They need only respect your right to hold those beliefs.

Here’s a test for you: do you respect the political beliefs of Donald tRump? Are his political beliefs worth respecting? If the answer is “no,” then the answer is also no when it comes to religious beliefs. Pretty simple.

[dawg]

40. There are lots of "good Christians" right here ...

on this very message board.

For the most part, we don't wear our faith on our sleeves, but we *are* doing our part to oppose Trump and all the other bigots who make up his base.

[Garrett78]

41. Believing in that for which there is zero evidence has never been a virtue. As for...

...Christian hypocrisy, it's certainly not new. It's been especially egregious since the Moral Majority folks arrived on the scene in the '70s.

[Scurrilous]

43. K&R