I'm usually the one saying "Save the blue dogs", but Manchin is of no use to us

[Recursion]

He's announced he is open to supporting Trump in 2020.

He's not worth defending. If we have a 51-49 Senate, he will switch parties. Guarantee it. I normally make the "gavel argument", that the caucus vote is worth more than literally every other vote put together. And I still believe that argument. But I don't believe Manchin can be trusted to make that caucus vote when it matters.

Pull support, write it off, and move on.

[Funtatlaguy]

1. Think you are wrong. He would not switch parties.

He is a 60-70% type of Dem. best we could hope for in the second or third most red state.

[mitch96]

18. A Republicrat? n/t

[dem4decades]

2. And if we take the podium from McConnell with him as a Democrat it will be all worthwhile.

Let's not lose sight of the fact that is the grand prize.

[Recursion]

7. I sincreley believe that if we take the gavel

he will give it back to them.

[dem4decades]

10. If that were true why would he even run?

[LBM20]

3. WRONG!!!!!!!!! Time to move on. We need a big tent and candidates who represent THEIR districts!

[Recursion]

5. He has *literally said* he is open to switching parties

This is not the time for summer soldiers and sunshine patriots

[yardwork]

11. The only alternative is to allow the Republican to win now.

This is bullshit.

[LBM20]

16. He is from a RED state. He votes with the Dems 75% of the time. Enough of this SHIT!

[yardwork]

4. No. He's the Democratic candidate and we need the numbers.

The primaries are over. Manchin is the Democratic candidate. We must regain the majority in order to chair the committees.

Stop this.

[Recursion]

6. I do not believe he will stay a Democrat

He has said on record he is open to switching parties.

[Va Lefty]

8. Yep, he will switch parties.

[yardwork]

9. So you're advocating to vote for the Republican now?!

[Drahthaardogs]

20. I'll roll the dice.

If he does, what are we out? Some money? If he doesn't, it benefits us 75% of the time.

[Kaleva]

21. Then dump him when he actually switches parties.

Until then, he counts as a Dem, regardless of how he actually votes, and winning control of the Senate and the Committees is of the utmost importance.

[PoliticAverse]

28. "I do not believe he will stay a Democrat" - I'm sure his opponent will remain a Republican. n/t

Last edited Mon Oct 8, 2018, 08:26 AM - Edit history (1)

[Socal31]

12. Using energy to go after Manchin is playing checkers.

Working our tail off to have a larger Senate margin than 51-49, but still being in control of the committees even if that fails, is playing chess. He votes against the party 27.5% of the time per [link:https://projects.propublica.org/represent/members/M001183-joe-manchin-iii| in the reddest of red states.


He didn't announce his decision yesterday until he knew it wouldn't change the outcome. To me that says that although he was willing to take heat for a yes vote in order to keep his seat, his calculation would change if he was actually the deciding factor. Chess, not checkers.

The optics of it suck. Yesterday was beyond suck. But voting incorrectly < 28% of the time as a (D) Senator from West Virginia is actually an asset that is not easily replaced.

[Buns_of_Fire]

13. I fully expect a Joe Lieberman-type move on his part.

If it doesn't happen, fine, but I won't be surprised in the least if he puts the shiv to the Democrats at the worst possible moment.

[dalton99a]

14. Shit. Manchin might even go full Trumpanzee and crawl up his ass like Lindsey

But for now we need every D on the ballot

[still_one]

15. He isn't saying a damn thing. While detestable that he would consider Trump in the pool of

contenders, the fact is this is a non-statement

Manchin doesn’t need DNC support, he should win in Nov in WV

We definitely want a D behind his name now

After the midterms we can argue and debate this, but now is not the time to do it just before the midterms as ling as there is the potential that we might get the majority in the Senate

[Autumn]

17. I have long expected a Nighthorse /Lieberman move from him.

He gave us fair warning. Blaming "Washington Democrats"is bullshit.

[JHan]

19. Well I've suspected the same but remember Lieberman was in a blue state.

Manchin has had all the time in the world to switch parties, why hasn't he done it yet?

[Autumn]

31. He could be waiting for the right time till he's needed. He's open to

supporting Trumps 2020 bid.

[JHan]

33. Thing is I don't sense a rift between him and Dems.

I would have been concerned if he voted for the tax bill and trumpcare but he didn't. I think his recent statements are reactions to attacks used against him right now. It's pure politics.

I mean he has criticized Dems publicly for not embracing conservative-leaning Democrats, but I'm really not seeing hard evidence that he would make a switch. He supports the ACA , and we know the Republicans would love to get rid of "Obamacare". He frequently gets hit with being too liberal in his state. The prime time for him to switch would have been 2016 I think.

[Autumn]

38. Maybe you don't sense it but his statement about Democrats leaves the

possibility of a rift open. He's not my Senator so if he's too liberal or not I have no input in the matter other than what I think of his actions on the BK matter because that impacts me.

[JHan]

39. Well his vote on Kav was inconsequential - terrible yes but didn't change anything.

I don't see what the GOP has to offer him, he is to the left of every GOPer in the Senate. And 2020 would be the worst time for him to switch, 2015/16 was prime time for that opportunity. But we'll see.

[OhioBlue]

32. Lieberman didn't switch parties either. He lost the Democratic Primary and then ran and won as an I

[JHan]

34. thx for that reminder ++

[phylny]

22. Why does he stay in our party?

[pnwmom]

24. He was their Governor as a Democrat. He's been a lifelong Democrat. It's his party as much as ours.

[pnwmom]

23. He's saying that one month before his own election and two years out from Trump's.

I won't condemn him till he's re-elected and still saying that close to Trump's election.

[kcr]

25. Let's see. A Dem fighting in a very red state who says he *might* switch, or

a definite 100% Republican. Yeah, the total smart choice to go with the definite Republican.

[handmade34]

26. wrong

we need numbers right now...

[Snackshack]

27. Agreed

Having the majority and being able to set the agenda to decide what legislation gets voted on or not voted on is nice but pointless if you can’t pass it.

[aeromanKC]

29. Disagree

Obamacare only passed filibuster because we had many DINO type Senators to get us to 59. We need DINO's now to get the Gavel back!!! The gavel is the most important thing right now for Dems in the Senate.

[denbot]

30. I have NEVER been one to say "save the blue dogs".

And the situation we are now in is the reason why.

[SidDithers]

35. Maybe he'll run as an Independent...

and caucus with the Dems most of the time, all the while criticizing them and telling him how better to run their party.

Sid

[pansypoo53219]

36. his GOP opponent is far worse.

[peggysue2]

37. This is one of the dumbest arguments I've read yet

We are on the eve of the biggest election of our lifetimes, the result of which will determine the course of this country for good or ill and we're entertaining the idea of dumping Manchin and what? Hand the seat to Morrisey? Give the Republicans (who by the way are stewing over this race) another win??

Insanity doesn't begin to describe a political move/intention like this.

We have one shot at this, people. We need every seat, even the one filled by Manchin. The time to argue over his questionable stances, votes and political attitudes was during the primary. Not now.

Crystal-ball gazing about what Manchin may or may not do in the future is pointless and counterproductive. Yeah, everyone's pissed about his vote on Kavanaugh, a vote that ultimately CHANGED NOTHING. The Republicans had the votes; we didn't. End of story. We lost the battle but there's still a war raging over the direction and soul of the fucking country.

This is a do-or-die moment. Eyes on the Prize which btw has a due date:

November 6th. Elect Democrats, Everywhere. Win this thing in the numbers that cannot be questioned or debated or fudged. Push these traitorous weasels into the sea so that we can start repairing the damage that the Trumpsters are exacting on this country every day they're in power.

Stop this nonsense. For the love of God, stop it right now. This is our moment to change the course of history. It's all on us and we dare not fail.