I don't think that the Fed/State charges law that Trump is counting on Kav for is going to help him

[Lucinda]

I have no doubt that Muller and Barbara Underwood have enough unrelated crimes to work with - which should prevent Trump from being able to pardon his way out of trouble...


So now I wonder just what the push for Kavanaugh is all about....short term. There is a frantic air to all this that seems more important to them than issues like Roe...We know there is a lot of dirty money...but I don't see how Kav seated helps with that...

[unblock]

1. Yeah in most cases it wouldn't be the exact same crime anyway

E.g., he could be a tax cheat but federal taxes are different from state taxes.

[Lucinda]

4. Yep...I didnt really stop to think about that until tonight.

There is just sooo much crap to follow...it makes my head spin.

[RockRaven]

2. A lot of the reporting on the Gamble case and what a SCOTUS w/ Kav will do, and what it means

to Trump seems to be lazy and/or ignorant hot-takes from political, not legal, reporters.

I suggest the relevant portions of the latest episode of the Opening Arguments podcast (episode 215) for anyone trying to get a better grasp on what the deal is with Gamble v US.

[Lucinda]

3. Thanks for the suggestion! It has all been background noise for me the

past week or so, and I didn't really connect the dots until tonight.

Which leads me to wonder what they were really pushing Kavanaugh for...

[jmowreader]

5. Thinking out loud here, legal scholars please help

First, Trump can't pardon himself. Like the man said, you can't be the judge in your own trial and that's effectively what self-pardoning is.

Doing something bad enough to raise the eyebrows of the feds almost always involves breaking more than one law. If the Separate Sovereigns Doctrine was overturned and someone violated both federal and state laws in the commission of their special crime, federal and state prosecutors would meet to discuss a division of effort that prevents both sovereigns from prosecuting the same parts of the crime. "We have a guy who tried to steal $2 million from the Federal Reserve with his cellphone, and attempted to use that stolen money to try to steal a $500,000 motor home from a Tennessee RV dealer?" (This actually happened. The malefactor's name is Randall Keith Beane. His federal inmate number is 52505-074, he's in the Elkton Federal Correctional Institution, and his release date is in 2028.) "The feds will take the wire fraud part of this, and the state can have the RV theft."

Would abolition of the Separate Sovereigns Doctrine keep the government from dividing up crimes like this?

[Lucinda]

9. I'd love to hear an answer to your question. Hopefully someone will chime in!

[roamer65]

6. A civil tax case from NYC and NY state can't be stopped by the Feds...full stop.

It’s flat out in the realm of state law and Governor Cuomo will not pardon.

[Lucinda]

12. Yep. And state and local taxes are just one aspect of the potential crimes committed.

I think that there is plenty to go around!

[bitterross]

7. I think you're correct.

His state crimes are pretty enormous.

[Lucinda]

11. It certainly seems that way.

[eleny]

8. I was wondering if the Feds might leave some charges exclusively to the states

That's if there was some overlapping of charges. I don't know if I expressed my thought well enough but I think you have the jist.

[Lucinda]

10. With money laundering and real estate involved (among other things) it seems that

there could be a lot of jurisdiction crossing to unravel.

[eleny]

15. Another aspect of this that makes me shake my head...

Once they pave the way for Trump et al to walk away free it has to open the door to many others who will take advantage of such a SCOTUS ruling. The president of the USA isn't the only person who has heavy demands on their time for important duties. Savvy attorneys will be arguing equal protection left and right, wherever there's a crack of daylight in the ruling. For example people who spend way more time working than playing golf or watching tv.

I'm a lay person but see what's shaping up as a can of worms.

[GoCubsGo]

13. Yes. The state charges are going to be completely different than the federal ones.

Which means there will be no "double jeopardy." Sure, they'll both charge him with financial crimes, but it's looking like he has committed so many of them that they can spread 'em out.

[Lucinda]

14. That fact, plus his apparent need to tattle on himself (via projecting the crap he does onto others)

leads me to think that there is a pretty easy to follow trail.
The fact that he isn't very smart, and surrounds himself with people who also aren't very smart, is one thing that has given me some comfort. These aren't criminal masterminds here!

[eleny]

16. That's why, imo, a guy of Avenatti's savvy can toy with Trump like our cat did with grasshoppers

[Stinky The Clown]

17. I agree with you. Everything we hear this is about is a distraction.

Look to the Bush clan for the underlying urgency. I don’t know what it is about either.

Fact is, even the orange shitstain is possibly clueless.