It's politics. Once Collins said yes, it was over. Manchin has nothing to gain in WV by

[themaguffin]

Last edited Sat Oct 6, 2018, 10:35 AM - Edit history (1)

voting yes at this point.

There is no doubt that Schumer etc. know this.

IF

IF IF Collins had a spine and soul, and declared to vote NO and Manchin was a yes, then yeah, it's a BIG fucking political problem (and bigger moral one).

But, as we all sit in our couches and play QB, we must not forget the political realities at play.

UPDATED: I am referring to nothing to gain politically. We need his vote in general. Sorry, politics is UGLY and his vote will not change the outcome. If that helps make it that he vote can make the difference on other matters rather than an actual R, then unfortunately, that's what the situation is.


It sucks, but we are not in the Senate and most of us are not thinking of the totality of the situation.

[Trust Buster]

1. Just his soul and conscience.

[themaguffin]

2. It didn't matter. This happens all of the time in politics. Again IF his vote mattered, then his

soul and conscience are lost.

Yes, he could have been honest and said no way, but again, his "no" doesn't change the outcome, so the situation becomes political calculation.

It's ugly. I'm not here to defend it, but to merely point out what gets lost here sometimes.

[Trust Buster]

6. This is not a political calculation over a piece of legislation.

* This is about a woman’s right to control her own body.

* This is about the quality of water and air that our children and grandchildren will be afforded.

* This is about the right for workers to organized and be represented.

* This is about the right of the average American to cast a vote free of the dilutive effects of gerrymandering that has reduced each democratic vote to count as less than one.

Our Legislative Branch has been in a state of paralysis for years and will continue to be for years to come. Democratic principles should not be sacrificed at the Congressional altar of NOTHINGNESS IMO.

[themaguffin]

13. You simply don't understand what I wrote. I'm not going in circles.

[Zambero]

3. Enabling McTurtle to persist as Majority Leader?

At this point I would hate to have THAT on my conscience. We need a minimum of 5i Dems and/or Indies who caucus with Dems in the U.S. Senate. Collins' yes vote was the decisive one, having NO conscience as a means of arriving to that conclusion.

[themaguffin]

5. again, it's politics, IF Collins said no, then it would be essential for him to vote no too

He was not going to sway her.


Her vote was ALWAY - ALWAYS a yes.

We know that his votes was ALWAYS going to be a no, if NEEDED.

Let's not kid ourselves to the political realities.

[True_Blue]

11. +1000

[Stare Decisis]

4. I actually just apologized

for a similar post to this. Not saying you should, that is between you and your conscience but I would like you to consider my point.

[themaguffin]

7. I will say that the serious issue with Joe was his statement. It was terrible.

[Jersey Devil]

8. His statement was just fine

It was the bullshit tweets that said he stated Ford was "confused" that was terrible. He never said anything of the kind.

[themaguffin]

10. oh he didn't? good to know. The headlines made it appear as he did.

[Jersey Devil]

12. That started with a tweet from Women's March

that said he stated Ford was "confused". But his written statements and everything he said orally contained nothing even close to that.

[shanny]

9. Other than the moral high ground.

And his soul. At some point there has to be a line that will not be crossed for political expedience.

Fuck Manchin.

[shraby]

14. self respect he's lost.

[Gothmog]

15. Agreed

[SuprstitionAintthWay]

16. Not a big fan of Manchin but I do believe that had 2/3 of Murk-Flake-Collins voted No

...he would have too. And we'd have rebuffed the misogynist and serial predator. That's why Manchin waited for the announcement of the 3rd of those three, obviously.

But Collins' Yes meant that that thin hope was gone.

From the moment she announced and we'd lost, I accept that Manchin should do whatever his own calculus told him gave him the best odds of winning reelection next month. I care less about making some display of principle that the other side laughs at and is thrilled by, and him thereby losing his Senate seat to a Republican, than our having the best chance for still having that seat Democratic in 2019.

Its all ugly, brutal, outrageous, and embittering, yes, but that's the arena we're now forced to compete in.