What if Kavanaugh's not lying? Now, hear me out.

[11 Bravo]

Based on multiple published statements from his buddy who it's asserted was in the room at the time of the alleged assault; I find it entirely feasible that the privileged little prep school dickhead was blacked out drunk when he assaulted Dr. Ford. So when he says it didn't happen, he may really believe it.
But sadly for young Brett, as anyone ever convicted of a host of offenses knows, a claim of inebriation doesn't let him off the hook.
They say that what's in when sober comes out when trashed. That would mean that Kavanaugh was not only a drunk, but also a sexual predator.
Now in Trumpworld, those traits might conceivably pass as bona fides. But I'll wager that the rest of the country doesn't see it that way.

For my money, all that's left is to wait and see if Collins and Murkowski drop the masks and say, "Fuck it, we're Republicans"; or if they actually live up to the personae they've adopted for years.

[hlthe2b]

1. Being passed out drunk and not "remembering" does NOT make you NOT GUILTY and NOT LYING!!!!

I find this post incredibly offensive.

[fleur-de-lisa]

4. Thank you! I agree on all counts!

[11 Bravo]

5. Did you not understand my post?

FUCK NO it doesn't make him not guilty! But if he was completely fucked up, he might not be lying. And I thought I made it clear that in my opinion, that makes no difference.
Sorry you were incredibly offended.

[hlthe2b]

10. You may not have intended to, but you made the RW excuse now being floated.

I know sometimes trying to make a devil's advocate argument is difficult, but no, your post did not reflect the latter.

[11 Bravo]

20. I have yet to see the RW argument that he was blacked-out drunk ...

and therefore might not remember committing sexual assault; but that even if he was shit faced, it's no excuse.

Can you link that up for me? Because that's what I said MIGHT be a possibility, and I've yet to hear a righty echo that sentiment.

[hlthe2b]

22. Do your own homework.. It has been alluded to all morning as R's try to line up their strategy.

BEING PASSED OUT DRUNK AND NOT REMEMBERING DOES NOT EQUATE to INNOCENCE OR CONVERSELY NOT LYING

[NoSmoke]

30. Give the OP a break,

he said no such thing about equating to not guilty.

[hlthe2b]

31. I did give the OP benefit of the doubt. He apologized. Your input not needed nor warranted.

I posted to your previous self-delete as well.

[NoSmoke]

43. He apologized to bettyellen.

As for input, if the shoe fits.....

[hlthe2b]

45. You are new, so I will ignore your rudeness and welcome you instead.

Enjoy your stay. And btw, the OP DID apologize in his first reply to me. Always a good thing to actually read the thread.

[mercuryblues]

38. I think you meant to

convey that kavenaugh might not believe he is lying. My question is why? Was he that drunk, does he think what he did isn't really sexual assault or is he such an accomplished liar, like trump, that he believes his own lies?

[drray23]

14. I had the problem before as well.

We have quite a few people with no reading comprehension and a propensity to get offended about things that are not in the OP.

[hlthe2b]

21. when poster suggests "not remembering" is valid reason to say they are "NOT LYING" that's a problem

How's YOUR reading comprehension on THAT?

[MosheFeingold]

40. Ah, you have to thread the needle

By being black out drunk, he could be guilty, but not lying because he has no recollection to falsify.

It's a subtle point.

That said, it's moot, because the Judge and his buddy just flat-out claim it never happened; they weren't there, and her recovered memory must be inaccurate.

They'd win in a court of law, BTW. Recovered/repressed memories are heavily questioned in court as unreliable.

The Court of Public Opinion, however, is distinct.

[hlthe2b]

41. NO. It is lying to say he did NOT do it IF he was passed out drunk and therefore does NOT remember.

[MaryMagdaline]

42. This is not a recovered memory

She always remembered it

[NewJeffCT]

9. I don't think the OP is saying Kavanaugh is not guilty of attempted rape at all

just that he might honestly not remember because he was drunk.

See this paragraph posted:

But sadly for young Brett, as anyone ever convicted of a host of offenses knows, a claim of inebriation doesn't let him off the hook. They say that what's in when sober comes out when trashed. That would mean that Kavanaugh was not only a drunk, but also a sexual predator.

[hlthe2b]

13. That DOES NOT MEAN HE IS NOT LYING!!!. HE IS DENYING ABSOLUTELY THAT IT HAPPENED OR

THAT HE WAS EVEN AT THE PARTY! SOmeone can honestly say they don't remember. If they deny it happened, that is a LIE because they (supposedly) do not remember and thus can not know!


Good gawd!

[bettyellen]

19. Then he'd know that he doesn't know at all what he did while blacked out.

People who black out either try to piece it together the next day or they laugh and don’t give a shit. But they always know a piece of their day goes dark. They often use the blackout thing to dispute it or say they don’t remember but you can’t have it both ways.

[11 Bravo]

25. Fuck it.

I thought I had made it clear that I believe he did what he is accused of.
Perhaps I ineloquently introduced my own supposition that if he was a black-out drunk capable of that kind of behavior, then perhaps he shouldn't be a Supreme Court justice.
That was promptly attacked as an excuse for his behavior.

I'm now reminded of why I took a fairly lengthy hiatus from DU.

[chowder66]

28. I understood what you meant. It could also be a reason for him to pass a lie detector test

if he has no recollection of it due to being drunk of his ass. This guy should have withdrawn by now.

[bettyellen]

32. Your missing my point. If he blacked out he can't honestly say he didn't do it. He knows he blacked

out, and would be lying if he tried to give a clear account of what happened. People who black out know they did- he even references that himself a few times in his year book. Jeeze. I didn’t attack you at all, but your supposition is faulty.

[11 Bravo]

37. I understand your point.

And we can agree to disagree as to what constitutes lying.
Perhaps the first two responses to the OP colored my reply to you. If so, I apologize.

But the immediate replies remind me of why I took a hike.

[bettyellen]

46. You can't claim to know what happened if you're blacked out- so that would be a lie?

Last edited Mon Sep 17, 2018, 07:54 PM - Edit history (1)

At best you can say you don’t recall. I think you’re getting pushback becasue this is indeed a dodge severely drunken person use. And to the rest of us, they still did the damage- they just don’t want to face the consequences. This is why one of the twelve steps is owning up to your shit.
Adding to say, I appreciate the apology but I think others were trying to say the same thing. And many of us have personal experience w drinkers trying to shirk responsibility by making similar claims or possibly faking a blackout. So, some are likely to have strong feelings about the issue. No reason to take it personally.

[jrthin]

34. +1000 nt

[rzemanfl]

2. He is using the old "some other dude did it" defense. n/t

[redstatebluegirl]

3. Both he and his 'Buddy" were so drunk they may not remember.

It is still sexual assault.

[11 Bravo]

7. Indeed it is. What that not clear in the OP?

[boston bean]

18. One is lying when they say it never happened. When if one were to put the best face on it, they

don’t know.

See the error of your position??

[PRETZEL]

23. Absolutely,

and btw, why does it seem like this other guy, Mark Judge?, was in the room just for the hell of it?

No, I got a sneaking suspicion that he was going to do the same thing to Ms. Ford but maybe chickened out or realized what was going on.

I'm sorry but this could have been a hell of a lot worse for Ms. Ford.

[unblock]

6. the personae they've adopted for years? you mean giving just enough lip service to reasonable views

to get re-elected, while nearly always voting reliably with all manner of republican craziness?


imho, they are reading the tea leaves on this one and will go whichever way the wind blows.
they are there for republicans if they think they can get away with it.

that's the full extent of their "principles".

[asiliveandbreathe]

8. He wasn't so drunk that he had the wherewithall to put his hand over her

mouth when she started screaming....ever had someone put their hand over your mouth???? Somethings you just don't forget..ever...

ALL members of the senate should dismiss this kavenaugh lifetime appointment..the POS in the WH is back peddling as we speak...

[JenniferJuniper]

11. Meh, he's likely assaulted women sober as well

More's a'comin', I feel sure of it.

[Hortensis]

12. Why bother? In your scenario, did a "blacked out drunk"

subsequently leave and walk down the stairs? Perhaps Mark dragged him to their head and gave him a push to start the descent?

You might be comfortable imagining that "all that's left" is to see how Collins and Murkowski vote, but chances are excellent other shoes are going to drop on all their despicable heads.

[katmondoo]

15. Was Kavanough drunk when he questioned Bill Clinton with disgusting questions about Monica?

[11 Bravo]

17. Probably not. Just being a partisan hack, totally unfit for the judiciary.

Did you read the entire OP?

[mikeysnot]

16. Can I take this moment to point out

that he was a drunk in high school? He is my age and underage drinking was against the law back then.

[DFW]

24. I'd say that if Kavanaugh's credibility erodes any further

Collins is still 99% for confirmation and Murkowski is at 98%.

Kavanaugh could come out and say, "yeah, OK, I'm against voting rights for blacks and people with Hispanic or Jewish names, so what?" and the two ladies would pretend to be "concerned" and then vote to confirm anyway.

[Orangeutan]

26. Even before this allegation came out, he struck me as a frat-rat type.

[MaryMagdaline]

27. Both he and his buddy were accused of being "stumbling drunk" by Dr. Ford

His buddy wrote a book about being a black-out drinker and the Judge gave a speech about being falling-down drunk after a night out in Boston. While in law school (age 22 to 25). At 40 years plus, he still thought it was funny that his law school buddy fell on a table and broke it and that their law school professor negotiated more drinks for the fallen comrade after the bartender had initially cut him off.

I'm beginning to think he is disqualified on more than one bases.

[11 Bravo]

33. I agree.

[gratuitous]

35. Remember Michael Deaver?

Chief of staff during Reagan's first term. Heavy hitter, big player in DC circles. After he left the White House, he went in for lobbying and influence peddling, big time. Featured on the cover of Newsweek in the back of a limo, holding a mobile car phone with a big, shit-eating grin, bearing the caption "Who Is He Calling?" Inside was a fawning piece on Deaver the Big Shot and his list of clients and causes that paid him Big Money to make things happen in DC.

You can guess what happened: He got nailed for influence peddling and corruption and other infractions against the body politic. His first lawyer was some white shoe law firm unaccustomed to the ways of criminal practice. One of the lawyer's first public statements in defense of poor Michael Deaver was that he couldn't possibly be tried for these horrible crimes, because he was a black-out drunk and didn't remember anything about making any of these deals. I mean, you can imagine his delight and surprise seeing these phat checks come into the office, but damned if Deaver knew anything about what he might have done to deserve them.

When I first heard that excuse, I thought, "Oh boy, there's probably only about 10 million guys sitting in the jug right now who want to see how this defense - I was too drunk to remember what I did - plays out, and how can I take advantage of this legal precedent?" Deaver's neophyte attorney was swiftly laughed out of the room, and Deaver found an experienced criminal lawyer to take over.

If Kavanaugh wants to plead innocent by reason of inebriation now, well, let's just hope for his sake that the Senate Judiciary Committee has far laxer standards than criminal night court.

[pnwmom]

36. No, he IS lying. The proof:

He says, "I was not at that party."

But she never specified a certain party. She said she didn't know exactly when or where it happened, but it happened sometime over a several month period when she and her group of friends were hanging out with boys from Georgetown Prep. It happened at a party at some friend's house. They would hear about a party through the grapevine and go to it.

[bettyellen]

48. Yep! And the word "party" is kind of deceptive if it was 4/5 people ....

We would say we’re going to party- meaning drink and whatnot somewhere, not to a party. A party would be a bit more memorable, an event for an occasion or person. I partied many times I couldn’t guess when and even where was unmemorable.

[njhoneybadger]

39. Well then his slime ball friend would have told him what he did the next day

And he is a proven liar anyway.
His is and was a spoiled little fuck who believes he can do anything he can get away with.

[MrsCoffee]

44. Um, they are Republicans?

Why would they have to drop any masks?