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babylonsister

(171,079 posts)
Wed Sep 5, 2018, 06:50 PM Sep 2018

David Frum: This Is a Constitutional Crisis

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/09/this-is-a-constitutional-crisis/569443/

This Is a Constitutional Crisis
A cowardly coup from within the administration threatens to enflame the president’s paranoia and further endanger American security.
4:54 PM ET
David Frum


Impeachment is a constitutional mechanism. The Twenty-Fifth Amendment is a constitutional mechanism. Mass resignations followed by voluntary testimony to congressional committees are a constitutional mechanism. Overt defiance of presidential authority by the president’s own appointees—now that’s a constitutional crisis.

If the president’s closest advisers believe that he is morally and intellectually unfit for his high office, they have a duty to do their utmost to remove him from it, by the lawful means at hand. That duty may be risky to their careers in government or afterward. But on their first day at work, they swore an oath to defend the Constitution—and there were no “riskiness” exemptions in the text of that oath.

On Wednesday, though, a “senior official in the Trump administration” published an anonymous op-ed in The New York Times, writing:

Many of the senior officials in his own administration are working diligently from within to frustrate parts of his agenda and his worst inclinations. I would know. I am one of them.


The author of the anonymous op-ed is hoping to vindicate the reputation of like-minded senior Trump staffers. See, we only look complicit! Actually, we’re the real heroes of the story.

But what the author has just done is throw the government of the United States into even more dangerous turmoil. He or she has enflamed the paranoia of the president and empowered the president’s willfulness.

snip//

What would be better?

Speak in your own name. Resign in a way that will count. Present the evidence that will justify an invocation of the Twenty-Fifth Amendment, or an impeachment, or at the very least, the first necessary step toward either outcome, a Democratic Congress after the November elections.

Your service in government is valuable. Thank you for it. But it is not so indispensable that it can compensate for the continuing tenure of a president you believe to be amoral, untruthful, irrational, anti-democratic, unpatriotic, and dangerous. Previous generations of Americans have sacrificed fortunes, health, and lives to serve the country. You are asked only to tell the truth aloud and with your name attached.
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David Frum: This Is a Constitutional Crisis (Original Post) babylonsister Sep 2018 OP
That is exactly how I have looked at this op ed BigmanPigman Sep 2018 #1
or is it bdamomma Sep 2018 #5
Correct. BigmanPigman Sep 2018 #7
For decades bdamomma Sep 2018 #8
K&R... spanone Sep 2018 #2
Very well said. marybourg Sep 2018 #3
K&R. john657 Sep 2018 #4
I don't thank the letter writer for anything. Solly Mack Sep 2018 #6
I think that's pretty much what Frum babylonsister Sep 2018 #10
I'd like for them to show themselves. Solly Mack Sep 2018 #12
Wouldn't you be an accomplice to murder if you dropped them in the middle Blue_true Sep 2018 #17
Not hardly. Solly Mack Sep 2018 #18
A great start for a top insider to reveal the cancer within the WH, in full light. Credit where Fred Sanders Sep 2018 #16
You want to give them some credit. I don't. Solly Mack Sep 2018 #19
This is a call and plea for help duforsure Sep 2018 #9
It's been a constitutional crisis workinclasszero Sep 2018 #11
+1 Ponietz Sep 2018 #26
Yes Putin owns those bastards too! workinclasszero Sep 2018 #28
K&R for visibility. nt tblue37 Sep 2018 #13
This too Bear Creek Sep 2018 #14
The fact that they've NOT done their utmost abuse of power. ancianita Sep 2018 #15
I guess he's right. But others have resigned or were fired. They signed NDAs, didn't they? Honeycombe8 Sep 2018 #20
Further derangement is ensured, but this will hinder Republicans in November bucolic_frolic Sep 2018 #21
Oh, we are well into the midst of a constitutional crisis relayerbob Sep 2018 #24
No, we're not. bucolic_frolic Sep 2018 #25
By then, it will be too late relayerbob Sep 2018 #29
Unprecedented, weird, and unsettling. BlueWI Sep 2018 #22
Resigning would be to play into Trump's hands relayerbob Sep 2018 #23
I want NYT to throw this turd into the punchbowl 7wo7rees Sep 2018 #27
Might not be a turd at all. babylonsister Sep 2018 #30

BigmanPigman

(51,615 posts)
1. That is exactly how I have looked at this op ed
Wed Sep 5, 2018, 07:03 PM
Sep 2018

all afternoon. Frum put my feelings about it into words. The author is not a hero and does not deserve any thanks for saving us. A real hero would stop putting party over country, which is what is happening, and come forward and start the process for removing him BEFORE 2020. We are in danger and this person is a coward.

Solly Mack

(90,778 posts)
6. I don't thank the letter writer for anything.
Wed Sep 5, 2018, 07:09 PM
Sep 2018

The fucking mess we wake up to each morning is now an even bigger fucking mess. The craven Op-ed writer is just as bad as Trump.

Wouldn't work for Trump otherwise.

Trying come off as some sort of savior. How is that any different from Mister "I Alone"?

Fuck them all.

Solly Mack

(90,778 posts)
12. I'd like for them to show themselves.
Wed Sep 5, 2018, 07:25 PM
Sep 2018

And then drop them off in the middle of a Trump rally.

I'd love to see Trump humiliated and removed from office.

But I would also love to see his enablers get exactly what they deserve..and that letter writer is an enabler pretending to be something else.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
17. Wouldn't you be an accomplice to murder if you dropped them in the middle
Wed Sep 5, 2018, 07:42 PM
Sep 2018

of a Trump rally after they outted themselves? The crazies there would slaughter the person.

But otherwise I agree. The oped writer is no hero, but more of a sniveling coward.

Fred Sanders

(23,946 posts)
16. A great start for a top insider to reveal the cancer within the WH, in full light. Credit where
Wed Sep 5, 2018, 07:38 PM
Sep 2018

credit is due.

And may have impact on Kavanaugh hearings...who can support a nomination from a madman?

duforsure

(11,885 posts)
9. This is a call and plea for help
Wed Sep 5, 2018, 07:17 PM
Sep 2018

For either using the 25th amendment, or for the republican'ts to impeach him, or this is going to result in them losing both the House and the Senate . Cheeto shouldn't have any choice of a justice on the Supreme court, especially a liar and a corrupt one like Kavanaugh. It should be postponed now until he's gone. Just think kavanaugh could allow him to go after all of them too.

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
11. It's been a constitutional crisis
Wed Sep 5, 2018, 07:24 PM
Sep 2018

Since Putin,Comey, Cambridge Analytic, the Green Party, the GOP and Facebook subverted the election and installed Orange Hitler!

People just now getting that huh?

ancianita

(36,128 posts)
15. The fact that they've NOT done their utmost abuse of power.
Wed Sep 5, 2018, 07:36 PM
Sep 2018

Conspiracy to obstruct justice, as well. And if they’ve enriched themselves from Russian sources and refused to do the above, racketeering. The whole or some parts add up to high crimes and misdemeanors. Maybe in aiding and abetting a hostile foreign power, treason.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
20. I guess he's right. But others have resigned or were fired. They signed NDAs, didn't they?
Wed Sep 5, 2018, 07:56 PM
Sep 2018

Trump required them to sign Nondisclosure agreements, didn't he? Is that legal? If not, that is one more thing he's not being held accountable for.

Congress knows. They know. It doesn't matter who speaks, how they speak, whether they speak, what evidence they have. The Republicans are not going to do anything.

It will be up to the Democrats in the House, if they pull the Blue Wave off. But with the Senate remaining Republican, what exactly can they get done? The Democrats don't need staffers to quit and speak out. We know what's going on, already. But it depends on what they have to say.

We are in a fix. We are in a Constitutional crisis, like David Frum says.

First things first: we must have a Blue Wave.

bucolic_frolic

(43,244 posts)
21. Further derangement is ensured, but this will hinder Republicans in November
Wed Sep 5, 2018, 07:58 PM
Sep 2018

so the goal of augmenting opposition in a new Congress is enhanced by this action in my view

As for what Trump can do ... tweet, bluster, and make things miserable for all in the short run. I doubt he will grab total operational control of his administration - that's not the way he has worked historically. So power is still under check, and divided to some small extent. I don't see much changing in the short run.

And no this is not a Constitutional Crisis. Such a crisis involves power struggles and litigation before the upper level Federal Courts, appeals to the Supreme Court, Senators huddling and not knowing what to do, and full width newspaper headlines in most all big city dailies with heavy legal overtones involving sovereignty, checks and balances, and imminent impeachment debates. This petty leak has none of that.

relayerbob

(6,548 posts)
24. Oh, we are well into the midst of a constitutional crisis
Wed Sep 5, 2018, 09:52 PM
Sep 2018

The obvious attempts to steal the Supreme Court is the most obvious example. I will agree we are far from it's peak, things are likely to get much more intense before it is over

bucolic_frolic

(43,244 posts)
25. No, we're not.
Wed Sep 5, 2018, 10:00 PM
Sep 2018

No one knows what to do, but the mechanisms of the Constitution remain unplumbed and intact, even though they are inactive. A Constitutional crisis is not paralysis and inaction. It is public legal and political clashes. Stealing the Court was not a crisis because Democrats didn't make it into a crisis, they just went along and barely pushed back at McConnell.

When the 25th Amendment is invoked, and Trump won't leave, and barricades himself with loyalists, we have a Constitutional Crisis. When Federal Marshalls carry out warrants and are refused by executive privilege, we have a crisis. Something has to conflict, with no obvious solution. Politics is not a crisis. Impasse is a crisis. IMHO anyway.

relayerbob

(6,548 posts)
29. By then, it will be too late
Wed Sep 5, 2018, 10:42 PM
Sep 2018

The "crisis" is now, what you describe is the battle for control, IMO. I suppose it's just matter of semantics. The occupation of the Sudetenland was the crisis, but the war was yet to start.

BlueWI

(1,736 posts)
22. Unprecedented, weird, and unsettling.
Wed Sep 5, 2018, 09:40 PM
Sep 2018

Has there been a stranger piece of political communication from a current presidency than this? An admission to the press that the president is unfit to serve, but continuing to press an agenda that may or may not be his?

And does this writer not recognize the obvious problematic nature of pressing on while the president is unfit?

Why on Earth would someone go to the press with this, as if this minimizes the problem?

When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. A smart and twisted man said this (Hunter S. Thompson), and it finally makes sense at this moment.

You think you've seen everything from Camp Runamuck, and now this!!!

relayerbob

(6,548 posts)
23. Resigning would be to play into Trump's hands
Wed Sep 5, 2018, 09:50 PM
Sep 2018

Nope, far better to keep the helm as straight and controlled as possible. We are heading into an incredible storm. And triggering Trump's paranoia into a truly public psychotic break, may indeed be the best thing that could happen. I get Frum's post, and in that light am disgusted by people like Jeff Flake who are running and hiding rather than fighting back. In any case, I personally think this is a good thing. Let Trump focus his hatred and fear on worrying who of his appointed officials oppose him and not on teaming up with Russia to find new ways to destroy us.

7wo7rees

(5,128 posts)
27. I want NYT to throw this turd into the punchbowl
Wed Sep 5, 2018, 10:14 PM
Sep 2018

Give us his name. Screw his hidey hole. You'll break his trust and gain ours.

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