Interesting Point by Chuck Todd and Rachel Maddow on MSNBC this morning

[berni_mccoy]

Democrats in Red States are gaining ground by going after opponents who support the Ryan Plan.

They've pointed out that Obama campaign has been tying Romney to Ryan for some time now and are more than prepared to go after Ryan.

Wow. It really is like Romney's campaign is trying to lose.

With Ryan, they can look like they are tossing red meat to the base, but ultimately, they are going to lose.

Romney's been polling higher with the elderly. That will surely change with Ryan as VP.

And Catholic Bishops have spoken out against Ryan's plan, saying it is against the teachings of the church, leaving the elderly and the poor to fend for themselves.

Ryan is Romney's worst possible pick.

[malaise]

1. From this far back

[kentuck]

24. A classic!

[CTyankee]

42. do you remember Joe Scar whining about that ad when it came out?

About how "irresponsible" it was to imply that Paul Ryan would dump his elderly grandma off a cliff...waaah...Mika got huffy about it, too...

I love it when they get all huffy over Dems ads...

[malaise]

43. They squealed like ReTHUG

pigs

[CTyankee]

49. Watching Joe get self righteous and having Mika bobble her head as if to say,

"You da boss, boss!" is always funny until I remember that Mika is supposed to be representing the liberal on that show.

[malaise]

56. LOL

The good news is that their audience is small - people are on their way to work

[Sugarcoated]

80. That show is unwatchable

[Samantha]

76. I have been thinking about this commercial all day and wondering if it would resurface

Thank you so much for posting it.

I would LOVE, LOVE, LOVE to see this playing in Florida RIGHT NOW.

Sam

[malaise]

77. Not more than me

[uponit7771]

2. Ryan doesn't have a prez future they can raise GOPer money with Ryan for congressional seats

[sandyd921]

64. Makes sense

That plus maybe they figure their base is not so motivated to turn out for "say anything" Romney and that might not be so good for them w/ congressional races in swing states/districts. They figure w/Ryan they can at least raise some money from their faithful and maybe save some seats they're worried about. Maybe they figured it's the best they can do being stuck with "romneyhood" at the top of their ticket ? Should be interesting anyway.

[berni_mccoy]

3. Rachel just followed up regarding Ryan's influence on the Senate

Democratic Senatorial candidates are gaining against their opponents who support the Ryan plan. The Ryan plan is toxic.

[babylonsister]

4. I think it's the worst also, so am wondering why, unless

they're completely boxed in, know it's not gonna happen for them, so are just biding their time.

[Cosmocat]

5. GAME ON!

Romney just put the republican vision for America on the table, all the cards.

Time for the people of this country to WTF up and see what is in store for them if they buy the slick sounding BS the Rs sell.

[Honeycombe8]

6. His Medicare plan grandfathers in those over a certain age, so it won't affect current older voters.

I think I heard that last year about the Ryan plan.

Also, isn't Ryan Catholic himself?

[berni_mccoy]

7. I don't think they'll be able to defend the Ryan plan with a grandfather clause...

when it's tossing their children's future care over the cliff. The imagery against the plan is just too powerful.

And as far as Ryan being Catholic, the American Catholic Bishops have already admonished Ryan for his anti-Catholic plan: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021109392

[creeksneakers2]

38. He drastically cuts medicaid right away though

A large portion of seniors depend on medicaid in addition to medicare.

[Hatchling]

47. Yes

Medi Cal picks up so my $10 dollar aspirin costs me nothing. $10 dollars doesn't sound like much until you multiply that by 10 and also consider that I get most of my food from foodbanks. I just do not have that extra $100 and would have to do without life saving medications and Doctor's vists that Medi-Cal also helps me pay.

To paraphrase the admins:

Fuck Paul Ryan.

[amandabeech]

57. Nearly a third of Medicaid expenditures go to seniors. Medicaid pays many a nursing home bill.

Unfortunately, most seniors spend at least some time in the nursing home, and many simply won't be able to afford it, and neither will strapped states and local governments.

Some seniors, mostly upper middle class and above--likely R&R voters, have real savings that the government makes them exhaust before nursing home Medicaid takes over payments. Elder law attorneys help the families save by divesting themselves of those assets well before the senior goes to the nursing home. Mostly, the assets are given to children and grandchildren.

Without Medicaid all those upper middle class & above voters will be more likely to be required to pay for most of the cost of nursing home stays of their parents and grandparents, thus losing a big chunk of their inheritances.

That will not sit well for a portion of the R&R constituency.

[eridani]

82. 70% of seniors in nursing homes depend entirely on Medicaid n/t

[Honeycombe8]

83. Most of them don't vote. I'm talking seniors on Medicare. nt

[eridani]

84. Not true. I've done canvassing at nursing homes

Not all that many are so incapacitated that they can't vote.

[obxhead]

51. Being a memeber of a church

or religious denomination doesn't make you a follower of the beliefs in that religion.

Just about every politician in the US is a testament to that.

[Honeycombe8]

67. The Catholic thing, though, may make a wash of Catholics being upset about poor people cuts....

because Catholics have a history of not being elected because of their religion, many Catholics, I would think, would consider his Catholicism such a plus that it would counter the other thing.

How long has it been since there's been a Catholic in the White House? Since Kennedy?

[jeff47]

53. Are you operating under the assumption that older voters hate their kids?

The Ryan budget leaves Medicare alone for those 55+ when it's enacted.

What makes it so unpopular among 55+ is most of them are rather fond of their children.

[Honeycombe8]

70. I was posing the question. Do people really vote for what's best for others? Or themselves?

Even if they love others, is that really how they base their votes? Maybe. Maybe not. I don't really know.

Love has nothing to do with it. That ever reliable senior vote that votes Republican...age 65ish...their kids are adults with decades to prepare for their senior years. The seniors may want the same for their kids and grandkids, but I suspect what matters most is continuing to get their meds for next month.

What MAY get them nervous, though, is that messing with Medicare at all, for the next generation...what's to stop them from eventually messing with the current Medicare recipients? That's what I would be concerned about.

[jeff47]

71. They typically vote what's best for their family, as they see it.

The people receiving Medicare are MASSIVELY fond of it.

They would like their kids to receive it too, when they're older.

Thus, they are not going to vote to take it away from their kids.

That ever reliable senior vote that votes Republican

Only when the Republicans aren't dumb enough to attack Social Security or Medicare.

Representative Hochul-D won a special election in 2011 by tying her opponent to the Ryan budget.

Republican-favoring things in that election:
R+6 district. It hadn't sent a Democrat to the House for 40 years.
Special Election - turnout skews massively older and Republican
Hochul didn't live in the district. She lived just outside it.
Democratic establishment thought she was doomed and didn't help.

And she won, 47-43.

Seniors love their kids, even when they shout "get off my lawn" to others.

[Honeycombe8]

72. I hope you're right. My far right Dad is on Medicare.

He sees it as a right he has because he paid into it for many decades. He is concerned that anyone mess with HIS Medicare. I've never heard him express any concern for the next generation. He may consider that, well, if they don't have to pay into it, then they wouldn't be getting it, so that's fair. They can save that Medicare tax money, and they'll actually be better off.

He doesn't have a clue what ins. would cost him, if he didn't have Medicare. His company provided him healthcare all his life, and then he got Medicare. He's never had to worry about getting health care.

[jeff47]

73. Then explain to him that 54- would still be paying.

We all would still be paying for his Medicare, and 54- would be paying for vouchers that explicitly don't cover their costs.

[Yavin4]

54. Also, There Are Millions of Americans in their 50s That Are Unemployed/Under Employed

Their 401Ks have still not fully recovered. They will need Medicare when they retire. There's no way that they will be able to survive without it.

[Ikonoklast]

66. It pulls the rug out from under those aged 55 and younger, who can see any chance at

retirement slipping away from them.

If you think those workers won't be angry seeing all the money they paid into S.S. and Medicare being put just outside of their reach by implementing the Ryan Die Early Plan, you might be wrong.

Vouchers would bankrupt all but the wealthiest elderly inside of twenty years.

[Honeycombe8]

68. I was talking about the senior vote that Republicans can usu. count on. nt

[Ikonoklast]

69. You assume that those seniors are all greedy, and do not care what happens to their children.

You would be wrong on that count, also.

[eridani]

81. If they get their way for people under 55, you think they are going to lay off of people older--

--than that? Riiight. Surely the school bully will leave you alone for the rest of the school year if you give him your lunch money for the first week.

[gordianot]

8. Was Ryan in trouble for his House seat? This would help him save face.

[Raine]

74. That's what I heard, that's it's doubtful he could hang on to his own seat. Really stupid to pick a

guy who can't carry his own district. It saves Ryan's face but does nothing for Rmoney.

[underpants]

9. No Southern candidate?? on either ticket??

Hey THE SOUTH (which I live in) How taken for granted do YOU feel now?

[Chorophyll]

14. No southern candidate last time, either.

Though I guess Palin appealed to certain people all over the map.

[underpants]

45. Wow I had not thought of that

Okay -- bad on me

[Yavin4]

55. AZ Is South

Southwest, but still South.

[hlthe2b]

10. Oh, I don't know that he is Romney's "worst possible pick"...

I think this certain someone sort of sets that standard:



But, I do think he affords some real opportunity for us... Romney Hood, indeed.

[Bjorn Against]

11. I actually think this pick is worse than Palin

Palin was largely unknown when she was picked and there was not really a good way to tie her to very many other GOP politicians in a very meaningful way. Ryan on the other hand is well known for his extremely unpopular budget, it is a budget that nearly every Reapublican member of Congress voted for which will result in not just Romney being dragged down but the entire GOP congressional field could be harmed by this pick. I am sure many Democrats in tight races against Republican incumbents are gleeful about this pick.

[progressivebydesign]

27. I happen to agree with you! Palin was uknown, folksy, attractive, and made-for-tv.

She was a shitty choice, it turned out... as people got to know her.

Ryan is already reviled, and has been rebuked by the Catholic Bishops and Nuns, for his heartless anti-poor budget. There have been ads against him already, and he hasn't even been the VP candidate yet.

GREAT gift for the Democrats... when you have to choose someone to shore up your own party vote. It's like they forgot they had to win over swing voters, and the Obama Republicans, and the moderates, to win. That's what I don't understand. They should have gone with someone LIKABLE and mainstream, not the Koch Brother's long lost son.

[Aerows]

17. What in the hell

is she wearing on her feet? Those have to be the ugliest shoes I have ever seen.

[eShirl]

34. looks like platform shoes for trail hiking

[truebluegreen]

36. that's real Presidential timber right there...nt

[underpants]

46. Wow is that an actualy picture of Palin?

Yikes

[Marsala]

12. "You want to tie me to Paul Ryan? *I'LL* SHOW *YOU* WHAT TYING MYSELF TO PAUL RYAN LOOKS LIKE!"

No wonder Romney lost to McCain in 2008. He really is worse!

[Kahuna]

13. It's gift for all Dems not just the president and proof positive that

mittens is bought and paid for by the superpac contributors. No way did mitt make this decision on his own.

[glowing]

15. More likely than anything, Ryan was going to lose his re-election bid in congress,

and he's the only one who would accept tying himself to the great Titanic that is Romney's campaign. His district is pissed off with his budget plan... Why do you think Chris Christy said "NO", he doesn't want his name aligned with Romney and a loss while he's still a Gov of New Jersey?

I think Paul Ryan was the only contender that new his internals in his home state and was acceptable to the "extremists" within the Puke party for nomination.

Didn't he give a rebuttal to President Obama's last address? And everyone was making fun of him?

[LibDemAlways]

16. The VP announcement was made on a Saturday morning when most of the

voters on the West Coast were still asleep. Not that Ryan's presence will change the minds of many voters here in California except in a negative way, but it still makes the Romney team look very unsavvy. But then we already knew that.

[progressivebydesign]

25. My sister is still pissed that NBC cut into the Olympic Relay to announce it last night. n/t

[Brother Buzz]

18. Like it or not, Romney now owns the Ryan Plan; his albatross

[tblue37]

19. I think he was forced to do this to hold on to his RW base, because they hate Romney. nt

[truebluegreen]

37. Yup.

After his surrogate praised Romneycare this week, the base melted down. He had to do something.

They're probably already hoping Something (a pie fight at the convention?) will make Ryan the nominee.

And they are deluded enough to think that will be a good thing--just as they thought Princess Dumbass was a game-changer in agood way in 2008.

[asjr]

20. I'm having trouble deciding on which planet I live. Are

Republicans really this dumb or have they already bought the ballot boxes and machines. If the latter we are really screwed.

[aquart]

40. They manufactured the ballot boxes and machines.

[Grins]

21. He was picked to keep Romney in line

This was a pick to satisfy the the hard core "base" and the teabaggers, without whom they can't win an election. Ryan is there to keep Romney in line because "authentic" conservatives don't trust Romney one whit.


“We are not auditioning for fearless leader. We don’t need a president to tell us in what direction to go. We know what direction to go. We want the (Paul) Ryan budget. … We just need a president to sign this stuff. We don’t need someone to think it up or design it. The leadership now for the modern conservative movement for the next 20 years will be coming out of the House and the Senate. Pick a Republican with enough working digits to handle a pen to become president of the United States. This is a change for Republicans: the House and Senate doing the work with the president signing bills. His job is to be captain of the team, to sign the legislation that has already been prepared.” - Grover Norquist at CPAC, the GOP's Conservative Hate-Fest last February.

Thanks, Reich-wingers!

[ptownbro]

22. All of you are wrong.

Your mistake is you're using logic, reasoning, and good common sense to form your opinions. Though I agree with why you would hope he's a bad pick, the reality is that logic, reasoning, and good common sense (as well as facts, evidence, etc..) doesn't always work in politics. Especially with the conservatives and Republicans. Sounds like a cheap shot or this is in jest, but I'm saying this in all seriousness.

Ryan looks good, speaks very well, and "comes across" as an intelligent and sincere guy. That's all that matters. There will be a large number of people who won't care about the details of his positions, things he tried to put through congress, things he's done in the past (within reason obviously), blah, blah, blah. Instead, they'll only care that he looks good, sounds good, and has an "R" next to his name.

That's why he's an excellent pick for Romney.

[kentuck]

23. But old people vote...

and this is like handing a new handgun to the Democrats with the word "Medicare" stamped on the barrel and saying "Shoot me!"...

[progressivebydesign]

26. Yeah? Well Palin was pretty, dressed well, gave a good folksy speech. FAIL.

He's a great pick for the Koch Brothers, Rove, and Norquist (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/02/13/grover-norquist-speech-cpac.html )

Shitty pick for Romney as it pertains to the election. Seriously... voters aren't that stupid. If they were, they would have elected McCain and Palin. She didn't implode til after the election. Ryan is already reviled by seniors, and Romney is already being shunned by moderates, so he picks an Ayn Rand devotee?

[southernyankeebelle]

28. Funny I think you are right. The tea party people especially will vote for him because

he is good looking. Just like Palin was. They don't care. This election for them is more about hating Obama and therefore voting for Mitts. There is so much hate.

[Z_California]

29. Agree but...

The 30 second spots for the "Medicare Assassins" will sway a lot of low information voters. Just sayin'.

[Kahuna]

32. Total nonsense! nt

[BumRushDaShow]

33. Ryan has been out there since 2009

and his craziness was rejected.

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2009/03/30/37165/ryan-gop-budget/

The church that he claims to belong to has rejected his nonsense and I know the nuns are going to haunt him wherever he goes!

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57457358-503544/nuns-on-the-bus-take-on-ryan-plan/

[sofa king]

35. I concur.

ptownbro is on to something. Ryan has name recognition and his publicly displayed lack of empathy for others is actually a selling point to right-wingers.

And that's the bottom line: he is "saleable" to the right-wing authoritarians.

Of course this pick also betrays a significant failing of the Romney campaign, which is that Mitt was able to game the primaries for a win, but he never won over the RWAs who are the most important subset of Republican voters.

So Romney had to go with a guy with high negatives among virtually everyone but the RWAs. Those high-negative voters will be further energized by the fact that they can pay themselves by voting all-Democratic instead. But a major enticement to the 'wingers is needed to make them come out to vote to raise taxes on themselves.

The pick also necessarily defines some of the future strategy they must take. The Democratic plan will obviously be to inform virtually all voters that they can pay themselves by not voting Republican, and it will be even easier to do with Ryan aboard.

The Republicans, therefore, have to shout down the Democrats with hundreds of millions in advertising, hundreds of hours of airtime, and an army of harlequins doing their best to distract and misdirect. They are going to have to try to crowd out the Democratic message with a huge, lengthy, and expensive volume of crap.

I think it will cost them billions, altogether, just to get close enough to steal it. And I don't think they can do it. The Republicans are well on their way to proving to Wall Street that politics is a terrible investment, because the losses they incur will add up to far more than what they blew on the hugely expensive wager itself.

[aquart]

41. Right wing shouldn't matter at this stage. Independents should.

RW had no place to go but stay home. This is a desperate bid to keep the House by bringing RW out to vote.

I want the independent polling for this macabre announcement.

[sofa king]

78. Yes, I agree.

The President in particular has been stumping hard for the Congressional elections, because he has little else to do but grow longer coattails at this point.

This pick makes much more sense as a damage-control measure to try to hang on to the House. For the GOP, this election should have been about winning the White House and regaining control of the Senate, but I think now they're praying they can hold on to the House.

Romney couldn't even guarantee that the most reliable voters on either side, right-wing authoritarians, would come out to vote for him. He's a terrible candidate. Maybe the worst I've seen--and I've seen a lot of terrible Republican candidates.

[D23MIURG23]

44. Kind of like how Kerry picked the youthful, charismatic (at the time anyway) Edwards.

Edwards was going to give Kerry the charisma and connection with young voters that he lacked.

Except that their base does not need to be "excited" any more than we did in 2004. If you have to stroke your base all the way to the election, what hope do you have of winning people who are not your base? At least Edwards had a chance of bringing in southern votes. 538 shows that Ryan doesn't even have a net positive favorability in Wisconsin.

Edwards didn't make the difference for Kerry. Ryan won't be the thing that makes the difference for Romney.

[Jeroen]

50. Press release from Catholics United

PRESS RELEASE: Paul Ryan’s Priorities Reflect Teachings of Ayn Rand, Not Jesus Christ

Posted August 11, 2012
Ryan, Romney's VP pick, has publicly renounced Ayn Rand yet has failed to change any of his policies that were shaped by her influence

WASHINGTON – Mitt Romney’s newly announced vice presidential candidate, Catholic Congressman Paul Ryan, has a long-standing standing relationship with the teachings of atheist philosopher Ayn Rand. Because of their stern pronouncements against serving the weak, poor and marginalized, the teachings of Ayn Rand are antithetical to Catholic social teaching.

On April 16, the Catholic bishops condemned Paul Ryan’s budget proposal as failing a “basic moral test” in that it slashes food assistance to the poor and radically redefines safety net programs such as Medicare.

More:
http://www.catholics-united.org/

[jeff47]

58. There's a hole in your analysis:

The people you speak of were already going to vote for Romney.

Ryan will not bring any new voters to the ticket. He will drive away seniors. Romney probably lost Florida today, and thus the presidency.

[Skraxx]

75. The Repub Base Is Not NEARLY Enough To Win An Election

Yes, the base will go for him, but so what? It's not large enough to win and he SHOULD have had them ALREADY and they weren't going to vote for Obama anyway.

[The empressof all]

30. If I were someone who thought that there was some good in the Republican Party

If I thought that there was still a vestige of Ike in the invisible puppet masters of their party I would think they are hanging Ryan by a silk cord. Could it be that the PTB know that this drift right is a death sentence to their party so they want to cut it off at the quick by sacrificing their biggest lamb on the VP alter.

When they lose in November....That party will have no recourse but to turn left back to the middle.

Or it could be...That they really are batshit insane.

[truebluegreen]

39. Interesting idea...

I've thought something similar in regards to politics in general: that this pick is so extreme, and will be so soundly repudiated, that it could be a turning point away from extremism.

Or maybe the wingnits' heads will just explode, which would also be a good thing.

[jeff47]

61. No more than Palin turned the Republicans away from teabaggers.

Palin dragging the McCain ticket down didn't turn the party back to the left. If anything, it went even further right.

With Romney at the top of the ticket, the true believers will claim Romney sunk the ticket. If only a true Republican had run, they would have won!

Ryan was chosen the same way a CEO picks a VP: "This guy says what I like to hear, and kisses my ass. He's hired!"

[The empressof all]

63. Possibly...

But no one ever labeled Palin a deep thinker or intellectual leader of the party. Frankly, I believe she was chosen because she was female. The fact that she had deep conservative support was only icing on the cake.

Time will tell of course or we may never know who and if there were puppet masters controlling this pick. It sure will be an interesting few months though.

[sandyd921]

65. You said it

"they really are batshit insane". Therefore when they lose in a landslide they will still lack the rationality to go in a different direction. Beyond this, maybe demographics will eventually marginalize them to such a degree that they finally do not matter. At least that's what we have to keep on hoping for anyway.

[Smickey]

31. Atlas Shrugged is Paul Ryans chosen "Bible"

Lest we all forget. He has all his peeps read it so it must be vital to his thinking, "Right"?

[classof56]

48. Just curious--what state is Rmoney claiming as residence?

I know there's a restriction on the Prez and Veep candidates being from the same state (Cheney quickly changed his from TX to WY before he was nominated in 2000), so even though Rmoney touts MI as his "home state", would it actually be, according to him, MA? Or CA? Suddenly I'm confused...

Oh, and by the way--Obama/Biden 2012!

[Politicalboi]

52. If the Ryan plan is true about

Not having to worry about Medicare or Social Security if you're already 55 won't help this.

"Romney's been polling higher with the elderly. That will surely change with Ryan as VP".

The GOP elderly are our worst nightmare. They are already over 55 and don't give a rat's ass about those younger than them. Tough love to their kids and grand kids so the elderly can get what they deserve.

[jeff47]

62. Actually, polling shows you're completely wrong.

It turns out, seniors are actually rather fond of their kids. Phasing out Medicare polls terribly among seniors, even with a 55+ exemption.

[amandabeech]

59. R&R's policies look like they are doing a sequel to "Throw Momma from the Train." n/t

[randome]

60. Maybe Romney could not get anyone else to accept the position.

Because it does seem like this is the worst pick of his stable of bad picks.

And also, Romney's announcement of Ryan as the next President makes me think he does have some mental acuity issues.

[Tarheel_Dem]

79. K&R