General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSquare Is the Most Annoying Thing to Happen to NYC Dining in Years
Sub: It invades privacy, could diminish creativity, and honestly just lets businesses send too many emails
ny.eater.com / 8-30-18
Walk into any of todays fast-casual restaurants places with negligible service where you order at a counter, pick it up yourself, bus your own table, and even sort the garbage and youll probably see Square. Known as a point of sale (POS) device, it looks like a white tablet computer, swivels around to face the customer as necessary, and dominates the counter.
Its a product of Square, Inc., a publicly traded company based in San Francisco with a $24 billion valuation, and theyre spreading like wildfire replacing traditional cash registers and a host of other seemingly obsolete payment schemes. On the surface, it makes sense: Whats wrong with a system that streamlines and standardizes the whole payment process and automatically provides an accounting?
First, of course, theres the obvious problem that 78 percent of Americans have credit cards, meaning that 22 percent dont. Not everyone has debit cards either, meaning a portion of people cant buy food at cashless establishments. Its an issue that disproportionately affects people of color and others disadvantaged by social class and other factors, as mentioned in an Eater piece earlier this year.
But I have my own reasons to be annoyed. As a person who often pays for meals in cash for the purposes of anonymity, I quickly discovered that many places using Square were incapable of taking cash or printing receipts. Doesnt it say This note is legal tender for all debts public and private on every piece of American currency?
MORE: https://ny.eater.com/2018/8/30/17764042/square-rant-robert-sietsema
Square knows where you go and how you spend your money.
Square advertises that the company helps personalize each transaction ... "helps" restaurants engineer menus.
Square shares information with a whole lot of places, including corporate affiliates, other companies that use Square, and third parties that run advertising campaigns, contests, special offers and other entities ...
... so expect lots of e-mail receipts and automated messages!
Square is said to now be in use by two million businesses
Not your cup of tea? JUST SAY NO TO THIS PRIVACY INVASION.
ret5hd
(20,502 posts)That's solely on the business.
Response to ret5hd (Reply #1)
Name removed Message auto-removed
sarah FAILIN
(2,857 posts)They only deal in plastic and the workers feel safer that way. Not much they can rob you of except tootsie rolls.
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)If you go to China, it's difficult to use credit cards, even if they're valid international ones. Everybody that lives in a city pays through an app on their phone (Typically WeChat, which is like the Chinese version of Facebook Messenger) - I'm sure it's similar in other countries as well.
We'll just have to convince Square, Circle Pay, Apple Pay, Samsung Pay, etc to not sell off their customer's info
MrsCoffee
(5,803 posts)I cant see them giving up the cash cow willingly.
Auggie
(31,177 posts)Zoonart
(11,875 posts)Ohiogal
(32,029 posts)that it's called a POS device. That could be taken two ways .....
marble falls
(57,137 posts)Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)I use Square for my side business.
First, nothing stops anyone from taking cash because they use Square. In fact Square will work just like a regular cash register and had a cash drawer available. Its nonsense to equate the use of Square with the choice not to take cash.
A place that doesnt take cash doesnt take cash for whatever reasons, but the fact that they use Square isnt causing that any more than any other credit card system- Square actually makes cash management easier than older standalone CC systems did.
Square knows where you shop or dine exactly the same amount as every other credit or depot card company always has. No more and no less.
Dont want the annoyance of text or email receipts? Open a free gmail account just for your receipts and/or download a free text app that gives you a phone # to put in for text recipts. Dont associate your mail email address with it and they wont associate you with it.
There is no invasion of privacy with Square unless you willingly give them your main phone number or email. So dont give that to them.
In fact Square has been a GREAT thing for tons of small businesses and startups. Before Square if you had a small business and wanted to take cards they had to sign a long term contract, but expensive equipment, be tied to a computer or phone line and pay monthly fees. It was a big hurdle for people with a small side business like landscaping, selling crafts at fairs, etc. It allows them to take credit and debit cards and access the market where they couldnt before. Small food trucks and carts, small art dealers, so many others have access to sales they never would before Square.
The author of this piece is a moron who both doesnt understand how Square or anybody CC system works and is mad about loss of privacy where he willingly handed over his main email and phone numbers like a fool.
cannabis_flower
(3,764 posts)You could even but a reloadable debit card and make up a completely fictitious email address and phone number. You would still be anonymous.
Auggie
(31,177 posts)cannabis_flower
(3,764 posts)Only buying an anonymous debit card can really be considered extra work. 713-635-1278, nunya@business.com, there I just did the extra work of making up fake information. Done on the spot.
Or you could stand around with cash and give it to someone who is willing to order and pay for you.
You can boycott them, but all you'll really get is not being able to eat there.
Auggie
(31,177 posts)"nunya@business.com"
Thanks for the idea.
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)You just click no receipt and go on your way. Entering an email or phoen# is only if you want a receipt copy sent to you.
Auggie
(31,177 posts)waiter took my card, and the receipt was emailed to me before I knew what was going on. The software somehow tied into in my credit card and conatct info without me giving it nor with my permission.
Now that I know what's going on maybe I can control it. I just find the whole process so underhanded and intrusive that I'll try to avoid SQUARE establishements for the immediate future.
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)When you use Square and you enter your email for a receipt they automatically send all recipts to that email from that time on, unless you enter a different one later.
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)What extra work?
A fake phone number or email or just say I dont want a receipt. Square remembers emails tied to a card so you literally have to only give the fake email or to an account just for receipts only once.
If you would rather boycott than literally enter a few keystrokes in a screen one time, then I guess do that.
For ones that dont do cash, that isnt an issue with Square. Its a decision that basically says they dont trust their employees.
Maeve
(42,287 posts)I go to festivals and sell books and the like...Square makes it easy (well, I pass it off to my husband as he has the smartphone). Most of the small vendors use it--the small percentage they charge is worth the extra sales. But yeah, we all take cash as well.
One of the things I liked about our last trip to Ireland was that the waiters all had hand-held devices and didn't just disappear with our credit card to finish the sale. Finally seeing that here.
Retrograde
(10,142 posts)I saw them used in France in the late 1990s - your credit card is never out of your sight so the waiter can't run off a few extra charge slips, as has happened to us in the US. And if you're paying with cash, European waiters usually carry enough money on them to make change at the table. Maybe their employers just trust them more.
gratuitous
(82,849 posts)These valuable tips for avoiding handing over a lot of your personal information to Square are nice, but how many people know about this? I'm not a moron, but maybe I am when it comes to Square. If my credit card company annoys me by selling off my information, I can go get another credit card. What is my choice when I'm standing at the point of sale and the Square is demanding my personal information and the retailer isn't equipped to handle cash? I guess I can just leave whatever I picked out to buy and walk out. THAT would be good for small businesses, many of which seemed to do okay before Square.
But yeah, to transact purchases in today's business environment, I need to have a smart phone that costs me $100 a month, an extra e-mail address just for receipts, an extra smart phone for another $25 each month that I use just for purchase transactions, because God forbid that small businesses actually cater to their customers and take into account all the costs in their business models. Which makes me a moron and a fool, I guess.
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)Entering your email or phone # into square is 100% optional. It isnt mandatory.
If you dont need a receipt, just dont enter it.
If you want your receipts, then set up an email for it.
I dont get where you think you need any smartphone, much less an extra one, or any of that. If email receipts bug you a second gmail account is free and takes 5 minutes one time to set up. You dont need a smart phone to pay with a card. If you want text receipts but not to your normal number you use any of dozens of free apps or if you dont want a smart phone at all get a free google voice account.
You can take 5 minutes and set up a free gmail account and google voice account using the free computers at the library and its set up for life. You then have a totally free email and phone number. Bam. 5 minutes, no cost. None of this nonsense about needing a smart phone or two smart phones
gratuitous
(82,849 posts)As I said, all of these optional options are carefully spelled out by Square before the customer transacts his or her business, right? Because I'm not seeing that. I get to the point of sale, and here's a cute little machine taking my information for I don't know what. Who's telling me about all this? The Square? Some helpful person who knows all about it? Nobody?
I used to get a receipt at the point of sale. A nice piece of paper I could use for my own records or to return unsatisfactory merchandise. Now, I need a computer, a printer, an extra e-mail account, and a smart phone for all these free apps that I never needed before. Yeah, that's really convenient. I don't want to give you my main phone number, and you called me a moron for not understanding that ahead of time. So I need another phone number that I can feed into the Square. Or I need a Google voice account, which seems really secure.
As I said before, if your business model is that heavily dependent on me giving you a lot of personal information or setting up a bunch of alternative e-mail accounts and voice accounts and phone lines, maybe your business model isn't workable. Sorry you went out of business because your customers are morons who don't feel like setting up an entire alternative personal internet profile just to go to your restaurant or buy your merchandise.
Nay
(12,051 posts)restaurant or store that won't take cash, etc. Nope. Keep your stuff.
Response to Auggie (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)lived before in a world where government clerks could pinpoint the current location of a large majority of citizens. The new capabilities of face and body recognition cameras are terrifying. We're all categorized by political leanings in databases.
The power an authoritarian government could misuse to control the populace is already enormous. Whole counties could have their utilities turned off and roads blocked to change focus from rebellion to survival. And, of course, the need to use cards for normal daily life could be turned into a tool of oppression and control in many ways.
djsunyc
(169 posts)that's the trade-off with technological advancement in an unfiltered capitalistic society.
brooklynite
(94,666 posts)First, there is no correlation between using SQUARE as a payment method and being cash only.
Second, working on the reality that many people have and choose to use credit cards, SQUARE provides a cost-effective processing platform in comparison to the bank-based systems.
Third, every credit card company you have a card with "knows where you go and how you spend your money".
MineralMan
(146,322 posts)There's a very good Chinese restaurant near my home. It only takes cash. No cards. No checks. If I feel like a meal from there and have no cash on hand, I have to go to an ATM before dining. Fortunately, there is a branch of my bank a block away, so it's no problem.
I could complain about that cash-only business, but won't. It's the place's decision. Besides, nobody in there speaks English very well, so I'd have a hard time complaining to them.
Auggie
(31,177 posts)they share information and e-mails indiscriminately -- you have no control over it.
When is enough, enough?
Now that I know what to look for I will avoid establishments that use SQUARE only.
zipplewrath
(16,646 posts)I know what you meant, but when I use one of the 5 CC I have, they aren't correlated to each other. Square appears to be attempting to detect my purchases even when I use separate CC. I can probably avoid that by clever obfuscation. But the CC companies long ago avoided "selling" your purchase information directly. Mostly that's because they want to sell that info as part of a larger analysis package.
LAS14
(13,783 posts)JCMach1
(27,562 posts)Just the first lurch to a cashless society
Iggo
(47,561 posts)dlk
(11,574 posts)samnsara
(17,625 posts)TwistOneUp
(1,020 posts)I pay cash whenever I have it for purposes of anonymity. I even use a VPN for anonymity.
Note who the big investors in Square are. I heard Intuit has a big slice, and that they sell access to everything they glean from their "service(s)" - total sharing whores.
No Thanks! lol
lunatica
(53,410 posts)These things are going to happen whether we like it or not. They, the ubiquitous they, are miles ahead of us.
Even paying with cash can be followed by the system. If you get cash out of your bank there are already eyes on you and video of you.
It might be possible to be completely off the grid, but who can really do that anymore?
MicaelS
(8,747 posts)This statute means that all United States money as identified above is a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person, or an organization must accept currency or coins as payment for goods or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether to accept cash unless there is a state law which says otherwise.
If no cash is accepted, then there is none to steal. If it makes you mad, then shop somewhere else.
Personally, I think your statement about paying "for meals in cash for the purposes of anonymity" is a hoot.
Auggie
(31,177 posts)MicaelS
(8,747 posts)After re-reading the link, I realize the writer is a food critic and WOULD want anonymity. So I am doubly wrong.