General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWe should have been demanding a new election since 2016 when
the collusion investigation was revealed. Every public appearance and tweet should have ended with #newelection. By now, we'd be 2 years in to getting the public on board, and the midterms would essentially be a referendum on a new presidential election. We've allowed trump to brainwash his followers with lies for 2 years, we should have been counteracting his propaganda with the truth and a solution for ending this nightmare.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,836 posts)We could "demand" one until we're collectively blue in the face but there's no way to make it happen.
ecstatic
(32,731 posts)Constitution is when faced with a completely amoral person like trump. A #newelection mandate would have been symbolic--essentially consent to solve the trump problem within the confines of the constitution, and to also make serious reforms to voting rights, etc.
Oneironaut
(5,524 posts)In absolute reality, the Constitution is useless. If you could convince enough people not to follow it, then you would be more powerful than the Constitution.
It works for the same reason as paper money - people are irrational. It works because we collectively accept it as working.
Russia wants to change this. Their master plan is to introduce doubt about the Constitutions power on our government. A lot of people dont like to hear this here, but the Russians are trying to influence Democrats as well, but more indirectly.
See, what does the fact that a dumbass like Trump can get elected say about our system? What does it do to our respect of our electoral process?
The Russians are actually trying to make us more rational, oddly enough, but not in a good way. They want to make more obvious the crippling flaws in our democratic process. Normally, we just ignore those, and the system works. Its the same thing as pointing out that a dollar bill is just a green piece of paper with a design. It has a value we irrationally assign to it - just like the Constitution.
Oddly, to save the system, you must accept its imperfection. You can demand small bandaids where they are needed, but you also need to buy into the irrationality that keeps the whole system going.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)And the election results directly effected as a result, at least very arguably...and statistically analyzable for just that purpose.
Unprecedented attacks call for unprecedented countermeasures...like SCOTUS intervening...also unprecedented.
saidsimplesimon
(7,888 posts)No Return on Investment as well, imo
treestar
(82,383 posts)get the idea that we can do it, too.
Watching Active Measures, there was a scene where a Ukrainian election is declared null and void and rescheduled to do over. I thought maybe seeing that makes people here who don't realize the Constitution doesn't allow it think it can be done here.
democratisphere
(17,235 posts)JESUS FUCKING CHRIST IT DOESN'T WORK THIS WAY.
And if it did they would have recalled Obama for being black.
ecstatic
(32,731 posts)on his power? Kids and babies in cages, and US citizens being deported and/ or denied passports?
Excuse me, but we're no longer in normal times.
Extraordinary times call for extraordinary solutions.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,836 posts)beachbum bob
(10,437 posts)Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)or ever was written to anticipate one via a cyber attack and social media and theft of emails.
beachbum bob
(10,437 posts)should be working for
onecaliberal
(32,894 posts)beachbum bob
(10,437 posts)conspiracy thinking and start getting active in getting people registered and out to voter
onecaliberal
(32,894 posts)When mueller uncovers the facts about how Russia stole the election for trump but republicans dont allow Americans see it, you can take comfort that we have a pretend constitution that only Dems follow.
Also, for the record Ive been registering people for 20 years. Ive been knocking on doors for Janz and making calls, Ive also financially supported and voted democratic my whole life so please dont pretend you know what Im doing.
shanny
(6,709 posts)which by requirement of said constitution cannot be retroactive? You lost me with that fantasy.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,836 posts)which would take many years, it wouldn't be retroactive. Our only remedy is to elect Democrats.
Kilgore
(1,733 posts)There is no provision for this in the constitution. So forget about it and look forward to the next election.
RussBLib
(9,035 posts)Dems just don't seem to have much "fight" in them
Bluepinky
(2,276 posts)I like how some of the campaigning Democrats are promising bold, progressive changes in policy; they are winning primaries and gaining populist support.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,836 posts)Bluepinky
(2,276 posts)Lets bring every one to a vote, and publicly state why the nominee isnt a good choice (for those that arent a good choice).
Lets not allow a vote for Kavanaugh until all the requested documents have been thoroughly reviewed. If the documents havent been reviewed, there must be a way to prevent a vote from happening (filibuster, not showing up for vote, filing a legal challenge to not getting all the documents, etc). Id like to hear more noise coming from the Democrats.
john657
(1,058 posts)The pubs have the majority in the Senate, they can confirm him without any Dem votes.
mythology
(9,527 posts)Power 2 the People
(2,437 posts)Nitram
(22,877 posts)Meanwhile, all three branches of government are under Republican control. What's in it for them?
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,836 posts)Nitram
(22,877 posts)requires us to go through a presidential succession to replace him: the VP, the Speaker of the House, the President Pro Tempore of the Senate, and the Secretary of State.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,836 posts)appoints another VP, who would have to be approved by the Senate. The succession is used only if the pres and VP are gone at the same time before a new VP can be appointed. So if aliens abduct both Trump and Pence at the same time, Ryan (ick) is then the president, and he appoints a new VP. If Trump, Pence and Ryan are abducted at once, then the president pro tem becomes president. Currently that's Orrin Hatch (ick). And so forth.
Nitram
(22,877 posts)campaign funds.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,836 posts)A charge/indictment is just an accusation, and the presumption of innocence applies as in all other criminal cases. So they would hold their office until removed through impeachment or forced resignation, and as long as a president holds office he can appoint a vice-president. I can't imagine a scenario in which a president and vice president are removed for misconduct at the same time without the president being able to appoint a vice-president before he leaves.
Iggo
(47,565 posts)milestogo
(16,829 posts)FSogol
(45,525 posts)DavidDvorkin
(19,485 posts)And it is just a fantasy.
Oneironaut
(5,524 posts)Theres a reason no one wants to touch the way our system of government works, even if its imperfect. If you create exceptions to the iron clad rules of our democracy, you create ambiguity. Historically, even the slightest element of ambiguity in government has had devastating consequences.
Half of the country would not accept the new government. You would create a classic war between two sides, each claiming that their side has the legitimate President. States each declare their loyalty, and a civil war erupts.
Government is a delicate balance. Its worth keeping it balanced, even if it means accepting flaws, exploits, and undesirable outcomes in the short term.