CNBC: 'I hate them': Locals reportedly frustrated with Alphabet's self-driving cars

[FrodosNewPet]

CNBC: 'I hate them': Locals reportedly frustrated with Alphabet's self-driving cars

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/28/locals-reportedly-frustrated-with-alphabets-waymo-self-driving-cars.html

Jillian D'Onfro | @jillianiles
Published 8 Hours Ago Updated 1 Hour Ago

Alphabet's self-driving cars are annoying their neighbors in Chandler, Arizona.

More than a dozen locals who work near Waymo's office gave The Information the same unequivocal assessment of the cars, which reportedly struggle to cross a T-intersection there: "I hate them."

One woman said that she almost hit one of the company's minivans because it suddenly stopped while trying to make a right turn, while another man said that he gets so frustrated waiting for the cars to cross the intersection that he has illegally driven around them.

~ snip ~

Waymo and other self-driving car companies will continue to try to work out software kinks and expand their regions of operation, but experts are divided on when self-driving cars will actually become mainstream.

~ snip ~

[gratuitous]

1. It's almost like driving is a complicated task

Programming a vehicle so that it stops to avoid collisions has the unintended effect of making it stop for nothing in particular. Programming it so that it ignores a leaf blowing across the road it might run over a family pet that a human driver would stop for.

There's a very busy intersection not far from where I live. Two boulevards, each two lanes in both directions and a median lane. Traffic for the stoplight is nearly always backed up for blocks. The intersection is dominated by small businesses in strip malls, with motorists going in and out of the parking lots. Some folks coming out are just going to turn right into the nearest lane. Others will want to cross three lanes and turn left. Some drivers are willing to wait for an opening or for someone to let them in. Others are more aggressive, pushing into the line whether the other driver wants to let them or not.

For experienced drivers, the chaos around that intersection can be managed. A self-driving car? I'm not so optimistic. So many interactions and conflicts depend on drivers making eye contact, unspoken negotiations and agreements, or just plain courtesy. How do you program for that? And if your self-driving car requires sudden human intervention without warning, why not just let the human take the wheel? We're a long ways away from truly autonomous vehicles.

[rickford66]

3. I've tried to explain this over and over.

I've programmed something similar in a simulated environment. And knowing everything I could encounter ahead of time was still tough. They'll be fixing bugs for many decades.

[Lee-Lee]

6. And that's before the liability issues

If your self driving car comes to a random stop on the road and causes a 5 car pileup- who gets sued?

The “driver”? They didn’t stop it. The manufacturer or company who wrote the code?

Right now the law lays the blame for actions taken in the car with the driver, and for accidents caused by actual mechanical failures or bad design on the company. But what if the bad driving is now a design failure and the owner/driver is out of that loop?

[4now]

2. So some people that don't use them don't like them

Some Buggy drivers didn't like the automobile.

[FrodosNewPet]

4. It's the other people on the road who do not like them

Short of the government stepping in and causing a COLOSSAL economic, political, and social crash by mandating self driving cars, they will have to share the roads with humans for at least 2, 3 probably 4 more decades. They need to be able to deal with that fact in a safe and non-frustrating way. To this point, no, they cannot cope.

I support the technology, and their positive potential impact for the mobility of many who cannot drive. At the same time, it is THE most difficult practical thing that we can ever ask technology to do.

[LanternWaste]

7. Much as New York pedestrians hated automobiles prior to traffic laws.

Most likely, road rules will be updated or re-written to accommodate new technology, much has always been done. Not always quickly enough for us. Other times, not slow enough for us.

But change, progress and advancement happen... regardless of whether we approve or not.

[mythology]

11. I don't like pedestrians, bicyclists and other drivers who don't obey traffic laws

I have to cope with idiots texting while doing those things and endangering everyone around them. Sadly it's part of being in society. I somehow manage to deal (with the occasional profanity).

[dembotoz]

5. Bugs will be worked out. But happy they aren't working out near me

Am curious how they do in snow and ice

[MineralMan]

8. Snow and ice? Well, human drivers do quite poorly

in those conditions, so I don't expect better performance from a computer-driven car. I live and drive in Minnesota. The Winter months are challenging, to say the least. So many cars here are decorated with dents and collision damage between October and May that it's clear that snow and ice represent considerable hazards.

I have a rule for myself. I start stopping before I start moving. I drive on the least trafficked roads I can. I drive even more defensively than I usually do, and watch for trouble farther down the road than usual. My constant goal is to avoid any loss of traction, and adjust my speed and driving to work toward that goal.

However, I can do nothing about the driver who proceeds down the road at a speed much higher than is safe for the conditions. I can do nothing about the driver who fails to start slowing down for an upcoming stop, and who is behind me in the same lane. I can do nothing about people who think that winter driving is the same as summer driving. All I can do is try very hard to avoid being in situations where those drivers are. So, it's side streets and slow speeds for me. So far, since 2004, I've had zero incidents in the winters here. My fingers are crossed.

[dembotoz]

9. yes we do

you have some sage advice there

wisconsin roads are not much better in winter and thanks to the gop they are in much worse repair than pretty much anywhere.
pothole avoidance software would burn out pretty quickly around here

[ProfessorGAC]

10. And That's A Weird Thing

I used to go to Wisconsin a few times a year.

Madison for national credit union things, Racine and Beloit, for supplier and customer support, and Eau Claire a couple times for the university.

I noticed coming back on I-39 that the roads were like pool tables until i hit South Beloit. Then it was like going over railroad tracks until i got South of I-88.

Now i've heard the same thing you describe that the roads are pretty beat up in WI. The exact opposite of what i experienced, over and over, for 15 years.

That's a shame.

[dembotoz]

14. supposedly 2nd worse roads in the nation.....

near me I43 north of milwaukee....not uncommon to see cars pull over and see the driver walk around looking for flats. and this is the i system.
have noticed over time i am spending more on suspension repair than engine....understand the local costco has one of the busiest tire centers in their system...wonder why......
speed limit is 70 i don't feel that speed is particularly safe in this area.

last week drove from columbus to portage on hwy 16....could not drink my coffee cause the roads was bouncing too much...

could go on and on...your car thanks you for not coming up here as often

[MineralMan]

12. The human brain can be very good at analyzing

road conditions and traffic to avoid accidents and other hazards. It can be, but a lot of people don't do a good job of it. The unique thing about our brains is their analog computation model. We automatically prioritize information to identify the most important bits. Digital computation, being rule-based, does a much poorer job of that prioritization.

What that means for winter driving is that I and other careful drivers get very good at anticipating issues located ahead. For example, as I approach an intersection, I'll have been watching what's happening there long before I arrive. Is there ice at the intersection? Well, if I'm seeing people skidding far ahead of me, I'll know that the answer is yes, and begin compensating for that hazard.

Computers are very good at controlling things in situations that are predictable. They're not so good at unpredictability, which is always present in traffic situations. That's why that self-driving car didn't detect a woman pushing a bicycle across a street between intersections. A human driver can react to unexpected conditions like that and avoid the accident. Not all human drivers will, of course, but they can, if they're paying attention and driving defensively.

I'm not optimistic about the success of self-driving vehicles. As more of them mix with human-controlled vehicles, I think we're going to see a lot of unfortunate situations happen.

[Totally Tunsie]

16. I wish more winter drivers were like you, MineralMan. We'd all be safer for it.

Driving defensively is the rule of the road, especially during inclement weather. I trust my abilities because, like you, I plan ahead and watch ahead, and never assume other drivers are in total control of their driving. In a lifetime of driving, my only accident was a rear hit when I was stopped at a stop sign.

Not to get off topic, however. The technology of the self-driving car scares the hell out of me. The thought of using Uber is bad enough, but complicate that with a self-driving Uber? No thanks!
By the way, that Arizona accident came to be because Uber had disconnected the Volvo emergency braking system, against regulations, so that the car did not stop as intended. Uber chose to trust its detection system, but eliminated the operative Volvo braking system which would have stopped the vehicle in time. I have personal knowledge of this as a family member works in this Volvo division and was dispatched to investigate the accident. Here's a good article about the accident:

[link:https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2018/05/24/uber-self-driving-car-crash-ntsb-investigation/640123002/|

Uber engineers had intentionally disabled the Volvo's emergency braking system "to reduce the potential for erratic vehicle behavior" but did not program the system to alert the human operator to manually brake the vehicle, NTSB reported Thursday.
If the emergency braking system had been activated, it would have been triggered 1.3 seconds before the car hit the pedestrian, according to the probe.
<snip>
NTSB said Uber's system was "operating normally" on the 2017 Volvo XC90 with "no faults or diagnostic messages."
But "according to Uber, emergency braking maneuvers are not enabled while the vehicle is under computer control to reduce the potential for erratic vehicle behavior," NTSB said. "The vehicle operator is relied on to intervene and take action. The system is not designed to alert the operator."

In addition to the NTSB, NHTSA was also involved in this investigation.

[Oneironaut]

13. Like it or not, this is the future.

All cars will eventually be self-driving. Unfortunately, like with any new technology, there is room for improvement.

[rgbecker]

15. Two things:

There is a lot more going on between drivers than these robot builders are willing to admit. I predict the auto-cars will be stopped all over the place as they try to figure out how to do something like simply merge in congested traffic....I think the most difficult maneuver to make is a left turn from a side street onto a four lane major roadway. Robot cars will be unable to do it and will be programed to turn right and work from there....or just sit there waiting for midnight when traffic dies down.

2. We the taxpayers will be on the hook to rebuild the entire road system to enable the techies to foist their robot cars on us in the name of safety. If they have a problem with people driving cars...why not, right now, take their licenses and make them take the bus?

[LanternWaste]

17. Have the taxpayers been on the hook for the current reconversion to renewable energies?

Have the taxpayers been on the hook for the re conversion to renewable energies? As FirstEnergy Solutions is closing down their four remaining coal power plants as part of their plan to retire all fossil-fueled plants.

What then is the objective (e.g., not influenced by personal feelings, interpretations, or prejudice and based on facts) and relevant difference between the two tech upgrades vis-a-vis the taxpayer?