Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

bigtree

(86,005 posts)
Sat Aug 25, 2018, 10:29 PM Aug 2018

Sen. Schumer Proposes Renaming Russell Office Building After John McCain

Jennifer Bendery @jbendery 2h2 hours ago
Sen. Schumer will offer a resolution to rename the Senate's Russell Building after McCain.







...Russell was a big anti-civil rights segregationist, so, yeah.
33 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Sen. Schumer Proposes Renaming Russell Office Building After John McCain (Original Post) bigtree Aug 2018 OP
K&R! And kudos to my senator! Rhiannon12866 Aug 2018 #1
Why not edhopper Aug 2018 #2
The Russell Office Building is already named after another deceased Senator. KWR65 Aug 2018 #3
He will already get a ship. GulfCoast66 Aug 2018 #4
Well if he already has a named ship there is no need to name an office building after him in DC KWR65 Aug 2018 #5
The USS John S. McCain is named after the senator's father and grandfather. Sneederbunk Aug 2018 #6
Valid point. And in normal times I might agree. GulfCoast66 Aug 2018 #8
Pretty brilliant trolling too given that Russell was a racist Democrat. grantcart Aug 2018 #11
so much perfect about this bigtree Aug 2018 #14
VP (at the time) Al Gore spoke glowingly about Russell in 1996 oberliner Aug 2018 #24
there isnt some kind of limit, ya know. mopinko Aug 2018 #32
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Aug 2018 #7
K&R highplainsdem Aug 2018 #9
Considering who Russell was, I guess this is an upgrade. JHan Aug 2018 #10
He was a lifelong Democrat oberliner Aug 2018 #15
Dick Russell was a segregationist .. JHan Aug 2018 #16
McCain voted against civil rights legislation and opposed gay marriage oberliner Aug 2018 #17
None of what you typed changes the man's legacy JHan Aug 2018 #18
The school lunch program was fought every step of the way oberliner Aug 2018 #21
Still bemused. JHan Aug 2018 #25
Thank you for those questions oberliner Aug 2018 #27
It doesn't matter much to me which democrat said nice things about him.. JHan Aug 2018 #30
OK oberliner Aug 2018 #31
Except for 1968, George Wallace was a lifelong Democrat too. George II Aug 2018 #19
Do you respect Al Gore? oberliner Aug 2018 #23
Oberliner, how do you so often end up in these positions? Hortensis Aug 2018 #33
kick bigtree Aug 2018 #12
Russell was a Democrat oberliner Aug 2018 #13
like saying Lincoln was a republican bigtree Aug 2018 #20
Here's what Al Gore said about Russell oberliner Aug 2018 #22
these two men conspired and acted to deny and limit my rights as an American bigtree Aug 2018 #28
Not a fan of old line Dixiecrats. They were just white wingers who were thankful for Social Security Hoyt Aug 2018 #26
McCain's name should be held in reserve to preempt any NCjack Aug 2018 #29

KWR65

(1,098 posts)
3. The Russell Office Building is already named after another deceased Senator.
Sat Aug 25, 2018, 10:45 PM
Aug 2018

Since McCain was a Navy pilot they should try a Navy base or Ship. JMTCW.

KWR65

(1,098 posts)
5. Well if he already has a named ship there is no need to name an office building after him in DC
Sat Aug 25, 2018, 10:51 PM
Aug 2018

Maybe some Federal Building in Arizona?

GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)
8. Valid point. And in normal times I might agree.
Sat Aug 25, 2018, 10:57 PM
Aug 2018

But Schumer is trolling Trump while making a legitimate proposal. A nice play.

People like McCain are no longer welcomed in the Republican Party. It seems fitting to name the building after one of the last republican Senators who understood that the congress is an equal branch of government.

grantcart

(53,061 posts)
11. Pretty brilliant trolling too given that Russell was a racist Democrat.
Sun Aug 26, 2018, 01:19 AM
Aug 2018

They had time to think this one through.

Check and mate to Trump.
 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
24. VP (at the time) Al Gore spoke glowingly about Russell in 1996
Sun Aug 26, 2018, 11:05 AM
Aug 2018

When his statue in the Rotunda was unveiled.

Closing with: "Today and forever, this leader, this patriot, this legend, remains where he belongs—in the Senate standing tall."

mopinko

(70,215 posts)
32. there isnt some kind of limit, ya know.
Sun Aug 26, 2018, 12:36 PM
Aug 2018

just ask the guys that are trying to rename something after st ronnie in every town in america.

JHan

(10,173 posts)
10. Considering who Russell was, I guess this is an upgrade.
Sun Aug 26, 2018, 12:44 AM
Aug 2018

took them way too long to scrub his name off that building.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
15. He was a lifelong Democrat
Sun Aug 26, 2018, 09:02 AM
Aug 2018

Authored the School Lunch Act which provided free school lunches to students who could not afford to buy lunch.

JHan

(10,173 posts)
16. Dick Russell was a segregationist ..
Sun Aug 26, 2018, 09:05 AM
Aug 2018

who filibustered the Civil Rights Act and co-wrote the Southern Manifesto with Strom Thurmond.

And I'm not the first person to suggest renaming the building was long overdue.

And yeah, Racists sometimes feed people.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
17. McCain voted against civil rights legislation and opposed gay marriage
Sun Aug 26, 2018, 09:26 AM
Aug 2018

To dismiss Richard Russell's National School Lunch Act as "racists sometimes feed people" diminishes the significance of that legislation. It was literally transformative for low-income families, and specifically children, and it's impact is still felt today.

Maybe we can name the building after another Democrat (Russell was a lifelong Democrat) who was committed to legislation like the school lunch program, rather than a lifelong Republican.

JHan

(10,173 posts)
18. None of what you typed changes the man's legacy
Sun Aug 26, 2018, 09:42 AM
Aug 2018

The National School Lunch Acts was inevitable, providing School Lunches gave Farmers and Laborers work while seeing to the nutritional needs of children. School Lunches are also a worldwide phenomenon. It's not a concept unique to Russell at all.

Willfully and unapologetically standing in the way of Civil Rights will get you special mention and it has tarnished Russell's legacy, deservedly so.

I'm also bemused by your position here, I already said McCain would be an upgrade because Russell was that problematic.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
21. The school lunch program was fought every step of the way
Sun Aug 26, 2018, 10:56 AM
Aug 2018

Had Russell not championed the program as aggressively as he did, it could have easily been stymied. The bill languished in Congress and opposition to the federal funding was fierce. Russell consistently advocated for increased monies for the program while others in Congress tried to slash those numbers. He gave impassioned speeches expressing frustration with Congress approving billions in funding for reconstruction of Europe after WWII but would not appropriate a tiny fraction of that amount to helping provide lunches to low income children in the United States.

There were famous showdowns between Russell (who was a Democrat) and Taft (who was a Republican) on the floor of the Senate over the importance of this program, with Russell and his Democratic colleagues finally prevailing in getting the school lunch legislation passed and signed into law.

When the Republicans took control of Congress after the 1946 elections, they proceeded to reduce drastically the amount of funding for the school lunch program and, once again, Russell fought tooth and nail against these reductions and continued to do so into the early 1950s as Republicans repeatedly tried to cut funds for the program.

The Republican Eisenhower administration also wanted to see the school lunch program drastically reduced, but Russell continued to stand up for the program and bring attention to the critical importance of maintaining it.

Since his death, the school lunch program has grown and expanded dramatically and now it is taken for granted.

Edit to add: I'd also encourage you read Al Gore's tribute to Russell from 1996 if you'd like get a sense of what Gore believed his legacy was.

JHan

(10,173 posts)
25. Still bemused.
Sun Aug 26, 2018, 11:17 AM
Aug 2018

What is your beef here?

- That the building is being renamed ?
- That the food lunch program crosses out Russell's racism or maybe you think it does cross out his racism?
- That I dare to mention his position on Civil Rights since it's a part of his own legacy?

what is your point?
What is your issue with pointing out the flaws of Russell and that changing the name of the building is due to sober consideration and long overdue?

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
27. Thank you for those questions
Sun Aug 26, 2018, 11:40 AM
Aug 2018

1. My beef is with the complete dismissal of the good works of this Democratic senator who had been consistently lauded by Democrats over the decades since his passing (including Al Gore speaking glowingly at the unveiling of Russell's statue at the Rotunda).

2. I don't really care that much about the building being renamed (though I'm not a huge fan of McCain, generally speaking)

3. I'm not saying the food lunch program should "cross out" racism - I'm saying that the food lunch program was a significant achievement and that racism, sadly, was the norm among whites in the south (Democrats and Republicans alike) at the time - and should not "cross out" the importance of that legislative achievement.

3. Mentioning his position on Civil Rights is understandable - but I think it is equally understandable that a Democrat would want to highlight his position on other important issues, such as providing funding for the school lunch program. (Much like Democrats who speak positively of some of the important achievements of FDR in spite of the Japanese internment camps).

4. My point is that there was a reason why Democrats honored Russell with the naming of this building and the unveiling of a statue of him in the Rotunda - and there should at least be a pause to recognize what those reasons were.

5. I have no issue with you pointing out his flaws but I also feel it is important to point out his accomplishments as well. Pretty much every Democrat who held office prior to 1970 held some extremely unenlightened views on critical issues (race, gender, sexual orientation), while also doing great work on other critical issues.

6. Sober consideration of changing the name of the building would involve highlighting both the reasons why this person ought to no longer have a building named for him as well as the reasons why he earned that honor in the first place.

JHan

(10,173 posts)
30. It doesn't matter much to me which democrat said nice things about him..
Sun Aug 26, 2018, 12:08 PM
Aug 2018

For example, telling me what Al Gore said about him isn't going to change my view of the man. And I respect Al Gore too, I just don't fancy appeal to authority arguments. I don't have to agree with everything a politician says to have respect for them, as long as I can back up my critiques of them with solid reasoning.

Neither am I one to ignore the follies of Presentism. Looking back, Abraham Lincoln had problematic views for much of his life, he didn't believe black and white could co-exist in peace, he didn't believe black people should serve on juries neither did he believe they should be part of the American project but towards the end of his life he suggested suffrage for black veterans and his exchanges with Frederick Douglass are most enlightening, suggesting a change in views he held all his life. In the context of Lincoln, Presentism is dangerous. And even though hindsight can be a gift and we shouldn't ignore the flaws, the framework of rights in the 19th century was also different.

However the idea of human rights, both universal and intrinsic, really came into vogue post WW2. Russell positioned himself against progress on this fundamental front which goes to the heart of human rights. It's not really a case of presentism when culturally the country and his party was moving in a different direction.

Of course, Politicians are often a mixed bag, good with the bad is a human reality - and since you don't have a problem with renaming the building and just want to point out that hey Russell wasn't always bad, even though he was an avowed white supremacist, I suppose that's your right.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
23. Do you respect Al Gore?
Sun Aug 26, 2018, 11:01 AM
Aug 2018

Read his remarks paying tribute Senator Russell from 1996 when his statue was unveiled.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
33. Oberliner, how do you so often end up in these positions?
Sun Aug 26, 2018, 02:17 PM
Aug 2018

Now you're arguing that hard-core southern Democrat segregationists, the very same type who finally flooded into the Republican Party, purged their caucuses of moderate and progressive conservatives, and committed the party to hard-core white supremacy, were really what Democrats were? And equating Al Gore with him in the process?

Sean Hannity couldn't beat that for a false equivalency smear on Democrats.

These people were a distinct hard-right, rabidly racist wing within the liberal Democratic Party and usually, of course, very strongly opposed to the majority factions. Most left after the largest and latest in a string of big civil rights and progressive losses to mainstream Democrats, and good riddance.

Yes, his role in the school lunch program was admirable. I often think of that simple progressivism when considering the great good we've done our nation. A nation of healthy young bodies running around the school yards in neighborhoods of all economic levels.

But how about we put up a nice plaque for Russell somewhere, instead of a giant monument to a segregationist whose strongest beliefs never did represent the values of the majority of Democrats his racist faction despised then and still do?

bigtree

(86,005 posts)
20. like saying Lincoln was a republican
Sun Aug 26, 2018, 09:55 AM
Aug 2018

...are you really that uninformed as to represent Russell as anything other than the leader of the anti-civil rights faction at the time.

Google, Dixiecrats.

Ffs.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
22. Here's what Al Gore said about Russell
Sun Aug 26, 2018, 10:59 AM
Aug 2018
But perhaps his most lasting influence was on matters that were less explosive and less immediately tied to life and death, less immediately newsworthy—bringing electricity to rural America, getting loans for Georgia’s farmers, making sure that poor children could eat a decent lunch at school. And there was always that reverence to his life, his spartan apartment, his utter devotion to the Senate as an institution, his enduring selflessness that inspired even those with whom he disagreed.

I do understand that more than one-hundred members of the Russell family are here this afternoon, and we all thank you for sharing your outstanding brother, uncle, cousin with the United States of America. I guess we all should have expected, however, that even at the dedication of his statue, Senator Russell would make certain he had the votes to come out on top in case any question was put.

There’s no need to worry about that this afternoon. Today and forever, this leader, this patriot, this legend, remains where he belongs—in the Senate standing tall.


That is Al Gore speaking about Russell in 1996.

bigtree

(86,005 posts)
28. these two men conspired and acted to deny and limit my rights as an American
Sun Aug 26, 2018, 11:58 AM
Aug 2018


Senators Strom Thumond of South Carolina and Richard Russell of Georgia opposed the Civil Rights Act of 1964. credit: U.S. Senate Historical Office

It's worse than this photo suggests. Russell supported racial segregation and co-authored the Southern Manifesto with Strom Thurmond, vigorously opposing Brown vs. Board of Education, and advocating actively resisting the new law integrating schools.

You need to seriously check this lauding of Russell. I don't think it has any place on this Democratic board, but it wouldn't be the first abomination against my race that's been allowed to stand and endure here.

You are clearly representing in your posts that you think school lunches are more important than my civil rights.

And you can stop throwing Al Gore in my face. He's not on DU. The issue right now is your own promotion of the man here.


My father, Director of Civil Rights at the Equal Employment Opportunity agency in the 80's, was fighting on the diametrically opposite side of these two men at the time of this photo.
 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
26. Not a fan of old line Dixiecrats. They were just white wingers who were thankful for Social Security
Sun Aug 26, 2018, 11:32 AM
Aug 2018

Point is, I'm fine renaming Russell building, or anything named after those guys.

NCjack

(10,279 posts)
29. McCain's name should be held in reserve to preempt any
Sun Aug 26, 2018, 12:00 PM
Aug 2018

attempt to name anything bigly important after Trump.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Sen. Schumer Proposes Ren...