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The Dow is up over 400 points so far today. (Original Post) PoindexterOglethorpe Aug 2018 OP
If only I owned a significant amount of stock. Flaleftist Aug 2018 #1
I have some mutual funds, PoindexterOglethorpe Aug 2018 #2
I'm also invested. Flaleftist Aug 2018 #4
Yes. Had the tax cuts been given to the working and middle class PoindexterOglethorpe Aug 2018 #7
My rules to investing in the market. safeinOhio Aug 2018 #3
So then, NoSmoke Aug 2018 #16
Different words safeinOhio Aug 2018 #18
No, a never fail strategy is to develop a strategy and keep it up... brooklynite Aug 2018 #22
And 3/4 of the country are earning 1970 level wages with no benefits workinclasszero Aug 2018 #5
It goes up, it goes down - The Fat Cats make money either way it goes Brother Buzz Aug 2018 #6
It's not as rigged as you think. PoindexterOglethorpe Aug 2018 #8
It's rigged, I tell you. The Fat Cats have insider information..... Brother Buzz Aug 2018 #9
Day trading is another loser's game. PoindexterOglethorpe Aug 2018 #12
I made one attempt at day trading Awsi Dooger Aug 2018 #19
You are lucky you got out relatively cheaply. PoindexterOglethorpe Aug 2018 #24
I quickly researched the product Italk was touting, the one responsible for the surge Awsi Dooger Aug 2018 #28
Correct. I am so very glad I invested in the market all my adult life. triron Aug 2018 #15
Good advice, NoSmoke Aug 2018 #17
Why? GeorgeGist Aug 2018 #10
I don't know. I don't especially care, either. PoindexterOglethorpe Aug 2018 #13
I don't know either but I've tried to warn the forum about rooting for a downturn Awsi Dooger Aug 2018 #14
Not to mention all those, including a few here I believe, PoindexterOglethorpe Aug 2018 #25
Wal-Mart A HERETIC I AM Aug 2018 #20
People buying ahead of tariffs. nt Blue_true Aug 2018 #23
Lots of money floating around. nt NCTraveler Aug 2018 #11
Wall Street loves lawless government. n/t moondust Aug 2018 #21
I am 60 and my husband recently passed. I stopped working a year and a half ago to care for him. AJT Aug 2018 #26
Age old advice from legendary comedian Will Rogers, he of [famous rope twirling hook] circa 1930? empedocles Aug 2018 #27
I am sorry for the loss of your husband. PoindexterOglethorpe Aug 2018 #30
Maybe that's first sign of it rising like a rocket to 45,000, oh my! greyl Aug 2018 #29
LOL! PoindexterOglethorpe Aug 2018 #31

Flaleftist

(3,473 posts)
1. If only I owned a significant amount of stock.
Thu Aug 16, 2018, 02:04 PM
Aug 2018

Real wages and inflation affect working Americans more. It appears the trillion dollar giveaway that corporations are using for stock buybacks is helping the DOW.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,858 posts)
2. I have some mutual funds,
Thu Aug 16, 2018, 02:12 PM
Aug 2018

as well as a 403b and a Roth Ira, all of which are invested in the market.

I've been doing reasonably well.

I realize there's a lot I don't know about such things, but somehow I doubt that the stock buybacks are really enough to lift all of the markets, which is exactly what is going on. Stock buybacks can only be taking place in a limited number of companies.

I have often found it quite strange that there is an overall sentiment here on DU that the stock market is bad, and a lot of glee every time there's a minor drop. I suspect that a lot of DUers have a 401k or a 403b or an IRA of some kind, so such glee is unwarranted. There are still a few pensions out there, and those rely on the stock market as well, although many of them are heavily invested in bonds.

A huge crash, as in 1929, would not simply make rich people poor. It would wipe out many people below that level, as happened in the Great Depression.

Flaleftist

(3,473 posts)
4. I'm also invested.
Thu Aug 16, 2018, 02:24 PM
Aug 2018

I have seen increases in my investments and dividends. It's not what I would call a significant amount. I still have to work. The tax cuts would have been better if they were more targeted to the working class than the top income earners and corporations. Cutting the corporate tax rate as much as they did was bound to have a positive affect on nearly every corporation's stock price, whether they did buybacks or not. Of course, the loss in revenue will have to be made up for somehow and it's not likely the rich that will suffer.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,858 posts)
7. Yes. Had the tax cuts been given to the working and middle class
Thu Aug 16, 2018, 02:50 PM
Aug 2018

a lot more people would be a lot better off. I have no idea how different tax cuts would have affected the stock market, although my guess is the market would have gone up because people would be buying more things.

safeinOhio

(32,683 posts)
3. My rules to investing in the market.
Thu Aug 16, 2018, 02:16 PM
Aug 2018

When others are buying I'll be selling.

When others are selling I'll be buying.

 

NoSmoke

(69 posts)
16. So then,
Thu Aug 16, 2018, 04:52 PM
Aug 2018

you will be buying and selling every day?

A better, never fail, strategy is to buy low and sell high.

brooklynite

(94,572 posts)
22. No, a never fail strategy is to develop a strategy and keep it up...
Thu Aug 16, 2018, 06:11 PM
Aug 2018

...regardless of what the market does.

We put in the same amount every month. If the market goes up, our existing shares are worth more. If the market goes down, we buy more shares for the same amount.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,858 posts)
8. It's not as rigged as you think.
Thu Aug 16, 2018, 03:01 PM
Aug 2018

On average, the market goes up 10% annually. Some years it goes up more, some years it declines, but over the long run, it goes up.

Trying to time the market is a fool's game, and most people will lose doing that. You need to invest in good mutual fund, index funds, or good stocks and leave the money in the market. A diversified portfolio will not steer you wrong.

Inflation will kill you if all of your money is in cash, including bonds.

I have an excellent advisor who has done quite well by me over the years.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,858 posts)
12. Day trading is another loser's game.
Thu Aug 16, 2018, 04:04 PM
Aug 2018

Buying good stocks or mutual funds and keeping them for the long run is what makes money.

Insider information can be deadly if you get caught using it. Although a lot of insiders may not get caught. I don't care. I know that buying and holding has done me very well. I don't care if someone else makes more money than I do, just like I don't care if someone else gets a better buy on a car than I do.

 

Awsi Dooger

(14,565 posts)
19. I made one attempt at day trading
Thu Aug 16, 2018, 05:29 PM
Aug 2018

I followed somebody and got stuck in a pump and dump on a penny stock. I didn't know what I was doing and put in an open order. It didn't fill until way up the ladder. That was a wild ride. I was up a decent amount for maybe 15 minutes. I did some research during that time period and realized the stock was a sucker. I sold immediately but everyone else was selling also and my order didn't fill until I was down more than $500 from the initial $5000.

Overall I felt very lucky to get out of there with a relatively cheap lesson. Never again.

I really should have shorted, if that was even possible. The stock was slightly over $1 when I was involved. Never recovered. I was sure it would drop to nothing. Yep...last I checked it was .000001 or something like that.

The ticker symbol was TALK, for a company called ITalk.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,858 posts)
24. You are lucky you got out relatively cheaply.
Thu Aug 16, 2018, 07:45 PM
Aug 2018

I've heard more horror stories about day trading than I care to remember. Especially with penny stocks.

 

Awsi Dooger

(14,565 posts)
28. I quickly researched the product Italk was touting, the one responsible for the surge
Thu Aug 16, 2018, 09:19 PM
Aug 2018

It was identical to the chief product made by a company that was selling for .0002.

I mean identical, looks and everything. Plus there were indications the same people were involved. That's when I realized it was a scam. The people responsible for the prior failure were desperately attempting a quick recoup.

As I hit the sell button I remember thinking this stock is going all the way down to nothing also. But I didn't know how to take advantage of that, and mostly I just wanted out of there.

Then I started buying index funds. No regrets.

triron

(22,003 posts)
15. Correct. I am so very glad I invested in the market all my adult life.
Thu Aug 16, 2018, 04:33 PM
Aug 2018

I have a pretty nice nest egg. Gives me sense of security.
Felt very uneasy near end of G W Bush presidency but then market rebounded nicely.

 

NoSmoke

(69 posts)
17. Good advice,
Thu Aug 16, 2018, 04:55 PM
Aug 2018

especially about market timing and day trading. Invest for the long haul in good stocks or index funds and, don't get greedy.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,858 posts)
13. I don't know. I don't especially care, either.
Thu Aug 16, 2018, 04:08 PM
Aug 2018

But there are those who gleefully post whenever the Dow is down a bit. They'll act like a hundred and fifty points is an apocalyptic drop, when it's well under 1%.

So I think threads should be likewise started when it does well. The other major indexes were up as well.

Keep in mind that a lot of companies are making money right now, and that tends to drive stock prices up.

 

Awsi Dooger

(14,565 posts)
14. I don't know either but I've tried to warn the forum about rooting for a downturn
Thu Aug 16, 2018, 04:29 PM
Aug 2018

Losing proposition, more often than not. We've had dozens of threads here since February expressing glee when the stock market is down for the day. No doubt there will be more of them, perhaps as soon as tomorrow.

Outside the occasional correction, the market trend is upward. Logically so. So when we're not in the midst of a correction with obvious factors taking us down, I'm going to anticipate a slow steady rise, with mostly irrelevant spikes and drops along the way.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,858 posts)
25. Not to mention all those, including a few here I believe,
Thu Aug 16, 2018, 07:56 PM
Aug 2018

who sold everything by January 20, 2017, convinced the market was going to tank completely under Trump.

Taking profits every so often is not a bad idea. I've been doing a little of that myself.

It is the long steady rise that is so appealing.

Here's a link to an article about money that Ben Franklin left to Boston and to Philadelphia. https://www.nytimes.com/1990/04/21/us/from-ben-franklin-a-gift-that-s-worth-two-fights.html

Open it in a private window, if need be, to read it.

The gist of the article is that Franklin left a thousand pounds sterling to each of the two cities, and that the money be used for the first hundred years as loans to young apprentices. After the first hundred years, part of the money could be disbursed, but the rest could not be until another 100 years had passed. By 1990, the Boston sum had grown to $4.5 million, and the Philadelphia sum to only $1.5 million, apparently because of some differences in how the money was invested.

A HERETIC I AM

(24,368 posts)
20. Wal-Mart
Thu Aug 16, 2018, 05:43 PM
Aug 2018

The DJIA is up primarily because WMT announced their best earnings in a decade


WMT $98.64 (+9.33%) on Yahoo Finance

AJT

(5,240 posts)
26. I am 60 and my husband recently passed. I stopped working a year and a half ago to care for him.
Thu Aug 16, 2018, 08:27 PM
Aug 2018

I have about 1/2 mil. in my IRA. I get about $3000 a month in pension and Soc. Sec.. I have a good amount of cash and own the house free and clear. At my age do I stay in the market or go into bonds or an annuity? Is 60 the park it in safe investments age. or is it closer to 65? I do fear being poor in my old age as my family seems to live for a long time. Any advice from fellow DUers? I do fear a crash, and I am thinking of selling the house.

empedocles

(15,751 posts)
27. Age old advice from legendary comedian Will Rogers, he of [famous rope twirling hook] circa 1930?
Thu Aug 16, 2018, 08:56 PM
Aug 2018

'I do not worry about my return on investment, I worry about THE RETURN OF MY INVESTMENT'.

[I have avoided bonds and annuities forever on those above fears. For my own account which has more monthly income to easily cover monthly expenses; I am out of the cash vulnerables, both the stock and real estate investments, with no worries - or regrets. My funds are in, and have been in, treasury bills for some time now. I have some bear hedges, and look to possibly add some gold if deflation sets in more]

I suggest you try and defend yourself, and study the conflicting opinions, and note, most investment advice is routinely bullish.


PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,858 posts)
30. I am sorry for the loss of your husband.
Fri Aug 17, 2018, 10:38 AM
Aug 2018

You were probably married a fairly long time, and now your life is totally different. I understand somewhat, as I got divorced at age 60, and although that's a completely different thing, it was the end of a marriage. The grief involved is nothing like the grief of losing someone to death, which I also know, so again, please accept my condolences.

To answer your questions: Basically, stay in the market.

You need a balanced portfolio that includes stocks, bonds, funds, and so on. If you know or can find a good financial advisor, do so. But first do your own due diligence about that person. You want one who is not doing all the actual investing on his own, but is with a firm that has a track record or affiliated with a broker who will make the actual trades. Essentially, you want to avoid a Bernie Madoff who simply takes your money.

There is no magic age at which you park your money in "safe" investments. The safest thing is to have a mix, and different experts recommend different mixes. Some of it depends on your personal tolerance for risk. If you come from a line of people who live a long time, you absolutely must have some of your money in areas of growth, because inflation can be dreadful.

At 60 you are old enough to recall the downturn in 2008, the dot-com bubble in the late 90's early 2000s, and at least two earlier housing bubbles. Over time, usually in less than ten years, markets and housing recover. Housing bubbles can inflict enormous damage, especially to those who bought near or at the peak. That's the entire underwater thing that meant for a number of people walking away from a home worth less than they owed made sense.

Annuities can be good in that they can give you a guaranteed stream of money for the rest of your life, but you absolutely do NOT want to tie up all your money that way. Part of my money is in two annuities, which were purchased in 2012. I am not yet taking money from either one. I will probably start taking from one in 2022, and the other a couple of years later. Those dates are when the value essentially maxes out on each one. A lot of on-line advice will tell you to steer completely away from annuities. However, they do have their purpose and this is where a trusted advisor can be enormously helpful.

As with any and all investments, make sure you completely understand what you are purchasing or getting into.

Why are you thinking of selling your house? And if you do so, where will you live?

Here's something else you really need to think about: going back to work. If you are only 60, presumably in good health, you'd be better off (in my opinion based on knowing very little about you) that you'd be better off working a few more years. Stop collecting Social Security, let your own account build up, and then resume taking it at or after your full retirement age. You could park your paycheck in an IRA or 401k if offered by the company you go to work for. A Roth IRA would be ideal, because while you'd pay taxes on the money you earn, it would then grow tax-free until you eventually start using that money. And a Roth is not subject to minimum distribution rules.

I can also assure you that there's a degree of myth making out there about people over some age being completely unable to get hired. There are jobs out there, plenty of them, especially if you have basic office skills. I had no trouble getting work over age 60, after my divorce and a relocation to another part of the country. It helped that I didn't have a career. I'd stayed home most of my marriage raising children, and quickly realized that the only way to improve my Social Security payout was to return to work. Which I did. I had several temp or part time jobs, which wound up more than doubling my own Social Security. Oh, and I even turned down a job at age 67, because it was advertised as part time, and my idea of part time is 20 hours a week, they wanted 30. I'd have been hired on the spot had I been willing to work 30 hours a week. But they did wind up taking me on two different times as a temp, and I have very good feelings about that small company.

For really good advice on Social Security, the book Get What's Yours (the revised secrets to maxing out your Social Security) by Laurence J. Kotlikoff, Philip Moeller, and Paul Solman is invaluable. It was through that book that I learned that I could collect a spousal benefit at age 66 (half of what his would be at his full retirement age) and put off collecting my own until age 70 (that birthday is next week) which gives me several hundred dollars a month more. Yay! Of course, as a widow, your situation is very different, and it may not make financial sense to go back to work. But do read the book.

Fearing a crash and selling everything is not a good thing. Keeping at least some money in cash is a good thing. But anyone who got out of the market after Trump was elected, has missed a lot of growth. Again, a variety of good mutual funds and index funds can be a good thing. Day trading, penny stocks, selling short, and other tricky strategies are not for the likes of you and me.

In my opinion you really should have an advisor you can trust. If you know anyone who is invested in the market, ask her if she has an advisor. You could simply walk in to any of the major brokerages (Merrill Lynch is the best known but there are many others out there) and talk to one of their people. Don't commit to anything on that first visit. Make sure you feel comfortable. Go to the local library and do some research. Read some of the financial magazines. Read various books. A librarian can point you in the right direction. Librarians are wonderful, because they know how to get information.

I am not an expert in these things, simply reasonably knowledgeable. There is more than one perfectly good way for you, or anyone else, to invest money. You want to do what you can to learn about several of these, and not invest or sell from fear. One very bad thing about DU is that there are those here who gleefully predict an imminent crash, and have been for years now. I've been here since early on, originally with a different screen name. I went away for a while, then came back as Poindexter. But I've seen the gloom and doom from the beginning. It's especially annoying to me when people post nonsense about the market CRASHING when it's down less than one half of one percent. That's precisely why I started this thread, because no one ever seems to start one on a market rise.

I hope I haven't nattered on too long, and I hope this post has been at least somewhat helpful.



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