Why are we discussing House speakership now?

[SHRED]

We haven't won jack shit.

And all this derogatory talk about older Democrats and the like, right now, feels like an attempted sabotage of this election.

Perhaps it's just political stupidity or naivete?

WTF?

[Kajun Gal]

1. Peeps be stirring the pot.

[emulatorloo]

2. Cuz Republicans and their ad makers want us to distract us w Pelosi

Simple as that.

Midterm election is not about Pelosi.

[wonkwest]

3. Because Republicans are making it an issue

They're flailing and clinging to what they can. They've decided Pelosi will be this cycle's boogieman (boogiewoman?).

As to your second point, the attacks against Bernie, OC, progressivism, and younger voters are now getting some well-deserved backlash. Just on this board alone, Ocasia-Cortez has been shit all over for the past several weeks. A little odd to lament when people push back. Maybe people shouldn't have started that internecine fight to begin with?

I wish people would leave all of this until after November.

But, some people live for the drama of it all.

I suspect their game.

[lapucelle]

5. Do you have a link to the "well-deserved backlash"? N/T

Last edited Fri Aug 10, 2018, 08:50 PM - Edit history (1)

[wonkwest]

8. Can't really link to the entire internet

I float around and lurk at many different sites, and people are - generally - flat out pissed about the treatment Ocasia-Cortez is getting from some quarters of the party.

She's unpolished. I think the media attention went to her head a bit. She seemed like she was ready to take on the mantle of, "Voice of a Generation." No, no. Slow your roll there, Alexandria. So, I'm not without my own criticisms of her.

But, god damn. Just look at DU for the past three weeks. Thread after thread after thread just slamming her. Rejoicing if she failed in some way. Silence if she succeeded.

It's an obvious thing. It didn't pass unnoticed.

And that's why I keep asking people to leave it. Generating resentment in our own voters - solid, Democratic voters - is not something we should be doing before this midterm. I responded to a post the other day that declared leftism "moved past." Dismissed! Frivolous. Just a blip.

It is not.

To treat it that way is to alienate millions and millions of voters who believe in the message Bernie and OC are bringing to the table.

It's so god damned counter-productive. People just plain need to get over themselves, and their emotional grudges. 2016 is over, and has been. It's the future we need to look to now, including the future that is 87 days away.

[lapucelle]

13. I'll take that to mean that no links will be forthcoming. N/T

[wonkwest]

15. You either choose to know or choose to see

Knowing is different than seeing. Seeing is selective. Only you have control over the latter.

[lapucelle]

21. Does that mean that I'm selectively not seeing the link you provided?

Can you provide an actual link so we can at least clear up the "knowing" part?

[wonkwest]

25. Feigned ignorance is the least of arguments

I don't do pretend. Do you do pretend? If so, why? Does it help in any way?

I'm genuinely curious, this denial, this push back, this constant belief that the Left isn't coming.

We're here now. So, I guess, good luck?

[lapucelle]

30. I don't do pretend either. That's why I asked for actual links to apocryphal backlash. N/T

[wonkwest]

38. If you need links to form thoughts

You're kind of the problem. I was taught to read as much as possible, get a sense of things, and then make an informed decision.

Do you know what's happening in the electorate in aggregate? Or do you need a twitter link to help you along?

Not great.

[lapucelle]

42. I wanted links in order to evaluate whether or not a claim is valid. N/T

I think that when people refuse to provide evidence for a claim, the evidence is either unreliable, weak, or nonexistent.

I thought that up all by myself!

[wonkwest]

44. Look at this board!

You seem to be here a lot. Are you saying you didn't see all the smears against OC? Are you saying you didn't see the several billion anti-Bernie threads?

Honest question. Do you think these attitudes are your general Democratic voter? Do you think these are the attitudes of the general 44 and younger voter?

[lapucelle]

53. Honest question: Do you have any evidence

to support your claim concerning backlash?

Bonus question: Backlash from whom against whom?

Extra credit: Quick! How many zeros in "several billion"?

[wonkwest]

61. You're not being serious

I'm done. This isn't my pasttime. If you won't be serious, ok. I am. So, good bye.

[lapucelle]

63. ...

[lapucelle]

22. Maybe you can link to a tiny piece of the internet in the form of an actual link. N/T

[wonkwest]

23. Do you not read this board?

Maybe read this board sometime.

[lapucelle]

28. So it's this board? First it was "the entire internet".

Then it was "many different sites where people float around and/or lurk".
Now it's DU.

At least we're narrowing it down.

[wonkwest]

29. Feigned obtuseness is the worst

You're not interested in a discussion. I've caught it. There are other threads for you to hop into to thrash progressives. Go find those. Divide us as you see fit. We'll all wonder at the magical of it all, I'm sure.

[lapucelle]

36. All I wanted was a little bit of linky goodness for a claim you made.

And all I'm getting is an invitation to

Hop away and thrash progressives so everyone can wonder at the magical of it all.

[wonkwest]

39. Links aren't a substitute for thought

Get offline. Think. Observe what you observe. Observe outside out of a self-curated echo chamber.

Like links are facts.

Good lord.

No wonder we're such a mess.

"I saw it on the internet!"

Dear god.

[lapucelle]

48. Links can provide evidence for claims.

petitio principii
(noun)
a logical fallacy in which a conclusion is taken for granted in the premises; begging the question; an assertion without evidence.

I'm not the one claiming "I saw it on the internet". That would be someone else.

Can't really link to the entire internet
I float around and lurk at many different sites.

[wonkwest]

71. We beg a lot of questions n/t

[Gothmog]

70. In the real world one uses facts in these discussions

Facts are good things. Facts are helpful in backing up claims. Opinions are not admissible in court and carry no weight

[wonkwest]

72. That's awesome

When do you plan on using them?

[Gothmog]

73. Read my posts

Thank you for the laughs I am really enjoying watching you run away from the facts presented.

[brush]

45. What many, including myself, objected to was her campaigning against Dem incumbents...

Last edited Sat Aug 11, 2018, 07:55 AM - Edit history (1)

which is, when think about it, trying to swap one proven Dem winner for another Dem who has not proven they can win a general election.

It also is not ideal because even if the challenger wins it hasn't improved our numbers in the House. We just swapped one Dem for another.

What we need to do is campaign in races with repug incumbents so we actually have a chance to gain a seat, improve our numbers towards the majority and decrease repug numbers

Swapping one Dem for another doesn't get us the speakership, the committee chairmanships, subpoena power, the power to hold hearings and investigations.

[George II]

68. "Just on this board alone, Ocasia-Cortez has been shit all over for the past several weeks."

Did she not "shit all over" several well respected experienced Democrats in the past several weeks:

Joseph Crowley, who she defeated?
Tammy Duckworth?
Kirsten Gilibrand?

Campaigned against a number of Democrats in the Midwest and now even Hawaii?

[hlthe2b]

4. There is a bright young rising star whose name will be unmentioned who seems determined to

have us embrace an ageist agenda that concludes any and all "leadership establishment" must go. Perhaps, more than one such "rising star". I can only conclude from some discussions that some have agreed with that attitude and pronouncements.

Talk about the most foolish thing one could do or say three months out (or any time, frankly). Perhaps some actually BELIEVE that those 30 and older are all Republicans? To those who might believe that: Geez people, read beyond the Presidential favorability ratings and drill down into the specifics of polling. I might also point out that less than 60% of eligible Americas voted in 2016. That includes eligible voters in ALL age categories.

I embrace all of our Democratic candidates, young and "old". The latter bring critical experience. The former, new ideas and enthusiasm. I also note some of the most ugly age-based critiques are leveled at Democratic women, including but not limited to Nancy Pelosi. I find this to be alarming at the least--possible evidence of something else should not go unconsidered.

[SHRED]

6. Thank you

Well said

[brush]

47. Yes, some are just coming out and saying some Dems are too old.

WTF? Fight the repugs not other Dems.

[FSogol]

7. Because we always allow the GOP and their media to set the agenda.

The correct answer when the GOP and the media try to use Pelosi as a scare tactic is to ignore them. We are working on winning the midterm races. The new members will vote for leadership. No need to divert attention from the races.

[babylonsister]

9. Because 50 dems have made their opinions known?

Over 50 Democratic candidates say they would oppose Pelosi as House speaker

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/dozens-democratic-candidates-say-they-would-oppose-pelosi-house-speaker-n899271

That's news whether we like it or not. I think it sucks.

[George II]

14. It's interesting that of those 51, 42 of them haven't even been elected yet. Only NINE....

....current members of Congress have said they won't support her.

I wonder how many of those 42 are saying that because they're in red districts and are playing to the republican voters in their districts? I wonder how many of those 42 have no chance of getting elected anyway.

Sad that the NBC article has to misrepresent reality with that misleading article.

[tonyt53]

26. BINGO!!!!!

[George II]

33. Thank you sir.

[FBaggins]

65. Leaves off one critical factor

Unless a couple dozen of those running in currently red districts can win... it doesn’t matter who the current Democrats support for Speaker.

[malaise]

10. The Con and his bots - Dems must not be distracted

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210985542

[dalton99a]

69. +1

[ProudLib72]

11. No "WE" are not discussing speakership.

"THEY" are.

[George II]

12. I agree. Let's win the 20-30-40 seats we expect to win first, THEN we can worry....

...about who our Speaker is going to be.

[dhol82]

16. Distraction

Pay no attention to anything until after the election.
Just GOTV!

[SHRED]

17. Good advice.

[UTUSN]

18. Because Repukes tell us to, tia.

[struggle4progress]

19. "Did Trump sell the US to Russia? Will Pelosi become speaker of the House?

What is America's favorite brand of popcorn? We discuss the issues of today! But first these messages!"

[Kaleva]

20. I don't know why you started a thread talking about Pelosi.

[DFW]

24. You remind me of a 40 year old interview with Peter Mayhew, the first "Wookie" of "Star Wars."

He was seven feet tall (or so) and for this reason alone, he got the part of Chewbacca, the Wookie in the Star Wars film.

Some very serious English interviewer was asking him how it was that he got the part of the Wookie in the film. After all, the guy was a hospital orderly in Surrey, and not a show biz icon.

His answer was, "I was just sittin' around the hospital all day. Wasn't nothin' else to do, was there?"

I get the impression that some people have little more to occupy their time than Mr. Mayhew had back in his hospital in Surrey prior to his casting.

[SHRED]

54. Wow

The longest ad hominem I've ever received.

[DFW]

67. And the most misunderstood, apparently

I meant the subject of your post, with which I agreed completely, not you personally.

[erronis]

27. Thanks. Let's get back to the business of winning some seats.

Leadership roles are up to the chambers to decide.

Strange how many people on this thread are stirring the stew. My recommendation: STFU and GOTV.

[Hulk]

31. Amen

Putting the cart before the horse.

Thanks to Russian trolls/dRumpf fan KKKlub.

[Doodley]

32. We need to focus on key values

A fairer society, in which all people are respected no matter what color or sexuality they are.

Healthcare as a basic right, no matter what your income and no matter what your existing health conditions.

A president, congress and senate that represents the ordinary people and not special interests that fund their campaigns.

These are the values we must fight on that over 90% of Americans agree on.

[RandySF]

34. The NYT needs a 'Dems in Disarry" story.

[Eko]

35. Because we have finally found our morals

and also now understand the political ramifications of income inequality!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Yonnie3]

37. I was just ranting about this to my SO.

Even the orange rectum has weighed in on this. Why are we letting those a-holes make this an election issue. The GOP traitors, racists and thieves are the issue! Let's take the House and then in the normal course of affairs select a leader. WTF is so hard about that.

[tiredtoo]

40. Republicans found Nancy Pelosi is a motivator for their base.

So they want us to argue about it, keep it in the news. Drop it, it does us no good!

[shanny]

41. There could be a message

and an aim--by /from the non-incumbent candidates. I'm just guessing but there is an issue of timing: a new Speaker is officially chosen on the first day of the new session but, at least among Democrats, the House minority leader is elected the previous November, before the new members are seated.

[H2O Man]

43. Recommended.

There's no good reason to discuss this now. There's one bad reason to, though -- it's a republican attempt to divide our party. All Democrats running for Congress should refuse to bite on this shit, and instead pivot directly to the issues important to the American people. And people here should follow that lead, as well.

[dalton99a]

55. +1. It is a Republican litmus test to divide

[elleng]

46. Feels like sabotage to me.

[Hekate]

49. Squirrel! That and misogyny, ageism, etc. Nancy P wasn't plunked into her job at age 30...

...with no experience, like some of the entitled youngsters who want to replace her. She worked damn hard her whole life for the Democratic Party, and when she was made Speaker she called her grandchildren up to the dais to share the moment.

[Me.]

50. It's Just So Easy, Isn't It?

and then certain Dems take up the meme and boom we have the Nancy must go imperative.

It's all fear driven...Con afraid they will lose the House...Dems afraid they won't get elected

[radical noodle]

51. Excellent question

Let's just think about Jim Jordan as speaker if we want a good reason to go vote for Democratic candidates.

[IronLionZion]

52. It's so easy to divide Dems against each other

we tend to be very susceptible to trolling on divisive issues.

[democratisphere]

56. United we will progress, divided we will repeat 2016.

Time to get smart.

[Historic NY]

57. Because Republicans talk about Nancy as a parasite.

so Democrats have to follow suit.

[George II]

60. More often than not, though, those "Democrats" really aren't.

[woundedkarma]

58. Russia continues to try to divide us ...

And a whole lot of DUers fall right into the trap on a daily basis.

Haha.. even my post divides rather than unites. See?

[displacedtexan]

59. Because Repukes do the same to Harry Reid when they need a carrot to dangle.

Otherwise, their voters wouldn't know why they should vote if it's not for president.

[Initech]

62. It's the "SQUIRREL!!!!!" effect.

Just more bullshit to keep us distracted and fighting with each other.

[Wounded Bear]

64. Agreed...lot of work to do yet, before we worry about that...

[LiberalFighter]

66. Totally agree.

We need to focus on winning elections before they decide who will be the speaker. Personally, I want someone with experience and knows what the hell goes on. Freshman need to respect the leadership and learn their jobs.