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left-of-center2012

(34,195 posts)
Sun Aug 5, 2018, 11:46 AM Aug 2018

Rare nickel worth millions up for auction

PHILADELPHIA — A rare nickel is going up for auction in Philadelphia and officials say it could fetch $3 million to $5 million. The Eliasberg 1913 Liberty Head Nickel is one of only five ever produced.

The Stack’s Bowers Galleries is offering the coin for auction Aug. 15 during the American Numismatic Association’s World’s Fair of Money. The fair will be held at the Pennsylvania Convention Center Aug. 14-18.

The coin is named for financier Louis E. Eliasberg, who bought the coin in 1948 and amassed one of the greatest coin collections in U.S. history.

A collection of vintage U.S. paper money also is up for auction, and could fetch up to $900,000. Some bills in the Joel R. Anderson Collection include 1880s certificates for $500 and $1,000 in silver.

https://triblive.com/state/pennsylvania/13926756-74/rare-nickel-worth-millions-up-for-auction-in-philadelphia

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sandensea

(21,639 posts)
3. Sold American!
Sun Aug 5, 2018, 12:32 PM
Aug 2018

Reminds me of the old joke about about Dan Quayle.

"I'm rich!" one man exclaims.

"How'd you manage that, what with this recession?"

"Simple," he says. "I asked Dan Quayle for two tens for a five - and kept doing it, until I got rich."

exboyfil

(17,863 posts)
4. It is amazing that stolen property
Sun Aug 5, 2018, 01:08 PM
Aug 2018

would command such prices. At the end of the day these five nickels were stolen from a US Mint.

DFW

(54,412 posts)
13. Stolen? From "a" U.S. Mint (it could only have been Philadelphia, FYI)? That's a new one.
Sun Aug 5, 2018, 03:52 PM
Aug 2018

From a 1996 article by one of America's foremost numismatic researchers:

BACKGROUND: The circumstances surrounding the issuance of the 1913 Liberty Head nickel are not known today. It is believed that Samuel W. Brown, who worked at the Philadelphia Mint and was a numismatist (for example, he attended the 1908 American Numismatic Association convention), was involved. Years later in 1919 he offered to buy some 1913 Liberty Head nickels via an advertisement in The Numismatist. By that time Brown lived in North Tonawanda, New York. After his advertisement appeared, he made known that he had acquired five 1913 Liberty Head nickels, but did not say how he obtained them. The presumption is that he acquired them at the Mint when he worked there, quite possibly via engraver George T Morgan, who produced rarities upon occasion for sale to dealers (in particular, Henry Chapman) and collectors (Cleveland industrialist Ambrose Swasey is an example). The five 1913 Liberty Head nickels were displayed at the 1920 ANA convention.

In early January 1913 it was perfectly legal to make a 1913 Liberty Head nickel at the Mint. As Lee E Hewitt,founder of the Numismatic Scrapbook Magazine and no-nonsense observer of the numismatic scene, said a number of times, under practices then in effect at the Mint, all one had to do was to exchange another date of five-cent piece for a 1913 Liberty Head. Although none had been made in quantity for circulation, in early 1913 the Liberty Head motif was the standard design in use, the "Buffalo" nickel not yet having been either perfected as to design or issued for circulation. The first "experimental" Indian-Buffalo nickels were struck on January 7, 1913, but production for circulation did not take place until after February 15, as there were problems with the design.1 For someone in the Medal Department of the Mint to have struck a few 1913 Liberty Head nickels for cabinet purposes early in January 1913 would have been neither unusual nor illegal. The Liberty Head motif was the official design until it was replaced with the Indian-Buffalo motif, and this did not happen until well into February 1913.

Had not the design problems with the Indian-Buffalo design been straightened out, Liberty Head nickels might have been made in large quantities for circulation in 1913. As it was, the Mint had been told to do nothing with the nickel denomination until the new Indian-Buffalo design was perfected.

Alternatively, the 1913 Liberty Head nickels could have been struck as test pieces in autumn 1912 when dies for thecoinage were being made, and before it was decided not to use the design.

-------------------------------------------
By the way, patterns, i.e. coins struck as trials but later not used, have been struck for over 150 years by the US Mint, some of them unique (only one example struck), and yet they reside in collections around the country. Not once has the mint called them stolen or tried to recover them. This "accusation" sounds like someone read the story of the 1933 $20 gold pieces, and is trying to extrapolate.

At the end of the day, these were NOT stolen from the Philadelphia mint (or the Denver Mint or the San Francisco Mint), and the article clearly lays that out. They were first publicly displayed 98 years ago, and have traded hands many times since. If the U.S. Government has been in no rush to seize them in all that time, what's yours?

exboyfil

(17,863 posts)
15. Thanks for the correction
Sun Aug 5, 2018, 04:16 PM
Aug 2018

Still I feel that any employee removing company (ie government) property without authorization is wrong and even criminal. The fact that the original "owner" worked at the mint and then so happened to receive the coins from an unknown party after his advertisement has to raise questions.

My company, as a side business, markets and sells toys of our products. We would not tolerate our employees or an employee of our supplier intentionally making a limited edition of these toys for personal profit. In fact my company does not allow us to remove any materials including scrap materials.

I just find it ironic that an employee can make his own limited edition of an item for personal gain, and collectors eat it up. Of course the Philadelphia US Mint sat upon their rights in this case and no recovery would be possible nearly a century later. Would the US Mints tolerate such behavior today? Do they attempt to guard against it today? Why or why not?

DFW

(54,412 posts)
16. The policy of the mint has evolved over time
Sun Aug 5, 2018, 04:37 PM
Aug 2018

The director of the Mint was almost certainly involved at the time of the making of the 1913 nickels. Don't forget, there was no fortune involved at the time, it was just a bunch of guys at the mint nostalgic that the old design in use since 1883 was being phased out and they had a few with the new date made up. With World War I looming, Woodrow Wilson rightly focused his attention elsewhere.

The Trade Dollar, a US silver coin made by the millions for use to compete with Mexican silver coins trading in the Orient at the time, was made regularly from 1873 to 1878, and then only as a collector issue from 1879 through 1883,between 500 to 100 coins (roughly) per year. For some reason, they struck 10 more in 1884 and then 5 pieces in 1885. The reason for them aren't clear, either, but as they were obviously done with the acquiescence of the Mint at the time, no one has ever tried to seize them, either. Today, the 1884 and 1885 coins are six figure items.

By the time the Second World War came, we decided that copper was needed for the War effort, and cents were to be struck in zinc-coated steel instead for the year 1943. A few of the old bronze planchets got used in error. They (the 1943 bronze cents) are now worth hundreds of thousands as rare mint errors, as are the few 1944 cents mistakenly struck on leftover Steel planchets. The government has been perfectly cool with that since the error was first discovered. The coins weren't worth anywhere near that at the time of production, and were just considered a curiosity that escaped notice at the time.

In the meantime, the government decided to return to production of silver dollars in 1964, and had a bunch of them produced at the Denver mint, handing out samples to mint employees. Then they decided, no they weren't going ahead with it after all, and told all the mint employees to return the coins they had been handed out for re-melting. Rumors have flown ever since that a few employees substituted old silver dollars for the ones dated 1964, and that a few survived, but I have no knowledge of one ever been offered for sale. There hasn't been a test case that I'm aware of, but it is assumed that any such piece would be seized, as this was a case where the government specifically DID say please return them, something they didn't make clear about the 1933 $20 coins at the time.

sandensea

(21,639 posts)
10. Don't give'em any ideas!
Sun Aug 5, 2018, 02:45 PM
Aug 2018

If that fat bastard has a heart attack, gets pushed out a window by Putin, or whatever, you can bet our GOPee friends will wail and howl, demanding Trump coinage, Trump on a $1000 bill, Trump on Mt. Rushmore, etc.

They'll go full third-world despot.

dawg

(10,624 posts)
11. Why can't I ever find one of those in the Coinstar reject bin?
Sun Aug 5, 2018, 03:00 PM
Aug 2018

Just sticky pennies and dead flat cell batteries for me.

NCjack

(10,279 posts)
12. Trump coin solution. Move Lincoln from the penny to a new bill. Put Trump on the penny.
Sun Aug 5, 2018, 03:21 PM
Aug 2018

And, finally, discontinue the penny.

DFW

(54,412 posts)
17. Well, that was an unexciting non-event
Thu Aug 16, 2018, 07:33 AM
Aug 2018

The whole thing appeared to be a staged publicity stunt with the owners "thrilled" to have bought the coin back for themselves. This is a fancy way of saying that no sale took place, without actually admitting it outright.

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