General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsBreaking Big: How Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand Became a Warrior for Women
After law school, Gillibrand went into corporate law but quickly felt lost. Searching for more meaning in her life, she found inspiration when she heard Hillary Clinton call for more women to help make decisions in Washington, D.C. Running in a very red district in Albany, Gillibrand officially launched her political career by defying the odds and getting elected to the U.S. Congress in 2006. In 2008, she became a New York senator, filling the vacancy left by Clinton when she was appointed U.S. secretary of state.
Today, Gillibrand continues to work tirelessly as an advocate for womens rights. Shes seen as a fearless leader, unafraid to challenge the status quo, and her name is high on the list for possible 2020 presidential contenders.
https://www.ozy.com/true-story/breaking-big-how-sen-kirsten-gillibrand-became-a-fearless-leader-for-women/88455
pamdb
(1,332 posts)I will never forgive her for pushing Al Franken out. I would vote for her if she got the nomination, but I really hope she doesn't. I'm not the only one who feels this way.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)She is awesome.
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)holding the woman more accountable than the action of the man.
This seems to be just one more barrier for women in politics.
zentrum
(9,865 posts)...that one of the women he allegedy harrased (in the photo) said she was in on the joke and not at all harrassed.
Another issue is the on-going rumor that one of the women was a rightwing shill.
The women who worked in his Senate Office describe it him as running the safest-for-women office in Washington.
We needed a well-aired, due process investigation, which he asked for. It didn't really do a damn thing for the Democrats and is now a story that will do nothing but harm her should she care to mention it during her climb to the Presidency. It had no effect whateveron Repugs and their agenda.
Meanwhile we've lost one of the best Democrats in the Senate.
What good was it?
This rush to oust Al upsets me and all the other women I know. I'm haviing a really hard time getting over it.
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)Franken resigned. That was his decision.
Holding another woman accountable for what a man does is the real problem here.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/photographer-said-franken-image-was-staged/
pangaia
(24,324 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)You guys should stop helping keep their fire stoked for them. That's stupid. Once Al had 8 accusers, all the party's leaders and all his colleagues couldn't save him, and the vast majority really wanted to.
As for Gillebrand, she's conservative by nature. Her state's Democrats elected her, and I'm fine with her in the senate because she has adopted more liberal positions. And because she's probably fairly moderate, certainly not one of those hatemongering social conservatives who'd destroy our nation if that's what it'd take to destroy the liberalism it was founded on.
But I don't want Gillebrand as a top senate leader because she is conservative, and I question the motives of some who are pushing that idea. Adopting liberal positions because she has to run for election in a blue state doesn't alter her basic nature.
zentrum
(9,865 posts).....to the facts.
But am still suspicious of the fact that Tweeden's radio co-host is a right winger and pal of Roger Stone who is an arch political operative, as I'm sure you know.
Have often thought Franken was not funny. I think a stunt like that done in full view for a camera, while it shows he needs consciousness raising, is not worth the price we paid---losing a fantastic Democrat in this dire time.
A due process procedure could have been useful for the public, cleared up all the Tweeden rumors, still shown the difference between the Democrats and the Repugs, allowed him to apologize and possibly---possibly---we could have kept one of our best.
If she wanted to make her point, Gillibrand could have done it by leading the due process investigation. If he had to go after that---after a full airing---and apology---then so be it.
It has gained Gillibrand nothing. It was a blip. Many Dems are now furious at her. The Me Too movement is unstoppable and not improved by taking out Franken.
Hope he'll run for Governor of Minn. Though we need him desperately in the Senate. Facing the Kavanaugh confirmation without Al is frigthening.
As a life-long feminist, I'd still take Franken in the Senate over Gillibrand any day.
BannonsLiver
(16,396 posts)And Roger Stone accolyte.
question everything
(47,486 posts)Yes, being an advocate for women is great, but this is still a single issue politician.
Where does she stand on foreign policy? domestic? economic?
beaglelover
(3,486 posts)And we're not alone.
all american girl
(1,788 posts)Smells like misogyny. You do realize that standing up for those how have sexually assaulted and harassed has been her work, right? You do know that others in the Sen also told Franken he needed to step down, right? I'm tired of people constantly blaming a woman when a man gets busted for grabbing women's asses and tits...but you go ahead and blame her because you like Franken....
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)As I like to say, if she took out a US Senator with 46 other colleagues able to block her, make her President now!!!
BannonsLiver
(16,396 posts)lark
(23,105 posts)Tweeden is a rwnj, worked with Stone & Hannity to coordinate this hit job. The photographer and others in the room said she lied, Franken absolutely didn't grope her. I am a former rape counselor, so there is no one more committed to women's safety than me. However, his one accuser is a liar and has a definite political agenda to stop Franken from his pointed questioning of drumpf & co. treachery. One of the others complained because he put his arm around her waist when posing for a picture she requested, sorry, that's not an attack. Franken has not been proven to do anything wrong, so we are not blaming a woman for his bad behavior, that's just spin. I dislike her because she spearheaded the effort to get rid of him, for her own personal gain only. I do dislike that other dems jumped on this train and I really distrust them as well. When the going got tough, they refused to stand up for the truth and sold out one of our most effective Dems and helped drumpf & co. immensely. If Franken actually assaulted anyone, I would feel 100% different, but so far there is zero evidence that happened, yet he still got pushed out.
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)"But I want to say something else, too. Over the last few months, all of usincluding and especially men who respect womenhave been forced to take a good, hard look at our own actions and think (perhaps, shamefully, for the first time) about how those actions have affected women.
"For instance, that picture. I don't know what was in my head when I took that picture, and it doesn't matter. There's no excuse. I look at it now and I feel disgusted with myself. It isn't funny. It's completely inappropriate. It's obvious how Leeann would feel violated by that picture. And, what's more, I can see how millions of other women would feel violated by itwomen who have had similar experiences in their own lives, women who fear having those experiences, women who look up to me, women who have counted on me.
"Coming from the world of comedy, I've told and written a lot of jokes that I once thought were funny but later came to realize were just plain offensive. But the intentions behind my actions aren't the point at all. It's the impact these jokes had on others that matters. And I'm sorry it's taken so long to come to terms with that.
I guess we can't say the woman in the picture "was asking for it" when she's wearing a flak jacket, helmet and fatigues - but saying "she's a RWNJ" is pretty much the same thing, isn't it?
I'll take Al Franken's word for it he was responsible for his own actions. And responsible for his own resignation.
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)Response to pamdb (Reply #1)
SharonClark This message was self-deleted by its author.
dem4decades
(11,296 posts)You say Kirsten, I say Al.
You say Gillibrand, I say Franken.
And if i get in trouble for missing Al Franken, then so be it.
I love that guy.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)She truly has done a lot of great things and will hopefully do a lot more in the future.
dem4decades
(11,296 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)Literally a "dem4decades" in every respect.
sdfernando
(4,935 posts)And he seemed to do it so much better...,so whats your point?
lark
(23,105 posts)She also backstabbed the Clintons, who were her mentors, It seems to be part of her dna, hurting others, even her friends, just to make herself look good, and not caring about what the truth is. I would never vote for her in a primary, although I would in the general. I'm praying hard she is not our candidate in 2020 because I believe she will hurt our cause.
brooklynite
(94,591 posts)Name a POLICY position she's stated that she reigned on?
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)lark
(23,105 posts)I can name you 2 people she backstabbed for her own gain, that shows a bad lack of character. There are so many better people with equally good, if not a lot better, progressive policies that are also interested in running. I will vote for one of them in the primaries. Others may not feel this way and are free to vote for whoever they approve of in the primary, although I do want everyone to vote for the person with a D behind their name in the general and will do that myself 100%.
brooklynite
(94,591 posts)EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)USALiberal
(10,877 posts)Vogon_Glory
(9,118 posts)by assuming and acting as if that right-wing political hit job on Al Franken was true. She should have known better, and theres little evidence that shes learned from the experience.
janterry
(4,429 posts)I really like Al. I think he has 'another act' left in him - if he's willing to climb that mountain. I would vote for him in a heartbeat!
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,732 posts)so to hell with her. Since she isn't from my state I can't vote for her or against her, but if she does run for president I'll vote for whoever runs against her in the primaries. If she is nominated, which I doubt will happen, I'll vote for her but only because I won't vote for a Republican.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)She has done some very good work in Congress and is a champion of many important Democratic causes.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,732 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)MineralMan
(146,317 posts)If you do not, then it's not really your issue, is it?
Raster
(20,998 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,732 posts)He was the best advocate this state has had in many years, as well as one of the most forceful members of the Senate Judiciary Committee. He was also a very effect fundraiser for Democrats. Gillibrand will pay a price for kneecapping him, and she deserves it.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Gillibrand didnt seem to think Al Frankens excellent work mattered when she decided he should be run out of office. And, funny thing - many of the people who supported her in that effort sneered at those of us who tried to get them to balance his good work against his supposed wrongdoing, insisting that one did not obviate the other.
But now you expect us to suddenly start balancing her other work against something she did that we find reprehensible?
No.
DFW
(54,403 posts)If she enters the race for president in 2020, I will vote for her if she is the nominee, but I would only support her the nomination if no better Democrat runs, something I figure to be a near impossibility.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Owl
(3,642 posts)GeorgeGist
(25,321 posts)She was weak on answering the questions he asked ie., her canned responses didn't fit.
unitedwethrive
(1,997 posts)Too many memorized responses. But I'd rather have her than any repub any day of the week!
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)I leave each state and district to its own devices when it comes to candidates and elections. Unless one lives in New York, she's not really an issue, is she?
Why are you pushing this, I wonder? Are you planning to champion her as a Presidential candidate in 2020? If so, I can assure you that I'll be supporting someone else in the primaries. I promise.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,732 posts)but I'll sure as hell support someone else in the primaries if she runs. She isn't going to get many votes out of Minnesota, that's for sure.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)I'll choose one to support when there's a list.
I don't think the OP lives in NY, either, so I'm not sure what the point of this is, actually.
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)She wants a woman in the White House and sees Gillibrand's gambit (tossing Al under the bus) as the start of her campaign.
Gillibrand's thought her actions would showcase her as a champion of women who will stand up to her own party because she is self righteous and stuff like that.
She fucked up because she wasn't smart enough to pick a real sleeze to make her spectacle. Instead she picked poor old Al, too kind to call her accusers liars (even though we all figured it out).
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)Potential presidential primary candidates will shake themselves out, starting next year.
RhodeIslandOne
(5,042 posts)One Minnesota Senator may still spoil Ms Gillibrands plans.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)she probably wouldn't be my first choice. I like her. I've met her. She does a good job for Minnesota in the Senate. I'm not sure she would be the best Democratic Presidential choice, though.
brooklynite
(94,591 posts)I guess there's no need to be consistent.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)I would vote for Gillibrand if she became the Democratic Nominee, too. I vote for the Democratic nominee for President. Every last freaking time.
I'm very consistent that way.
RhodeIslandOne
(5,042 posts)Klobuchar did not jump out publicly and call for and only said he should after a private meeting and it was obvious he was going to anyway.
brooklynite
(94,591 posts)The point is that she agreed with virtually every other Senator, male and female. But apparently we only need one villain.
RhodeIslandOne
(5,042 posts)She did not beat the drum in public repeatedly and without pause like Gillebrand did with zeal.
brooklynite
(94,591 posts)Feel free to provide evidence for your embellishments.
RhodeIslandOne
(5,042 posts)Instead Im just gonna lie back and wait until you or one of her cheerleaders posts another article about her where running Al Franken out of office is a high point for her. For all the gaslighting nonsense that she was one of many we know deep down how proud you are about it.
brooklynite
(94,591 posts)I contributed large amounts to his campaign (feel free to check my FEC records), and spoke to him 2-3 times a year. I thought he should step down AFTER he apologized for his behavior the first time, because as much as I supported him, the new accusations were going to make his political future untenable in the #me-to era. Feel free to remind me that he didn't get "due process", but it was his ultimate choice to step down; nobody forced him to, and having already apologized once, the "it's all lies" defense that was so popular here was never going to be viable.
Sorry if that doesn't fit your "prideful" stereotypes...
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,732 posts)She's always been inclined to be wishy-washy and evasive when faced with controversial issues. She does seem to be developing the rudiments of a spine lately but I think there are much better possible candidates out there.
DFW
(54,403 posts)We don't need a one trick pony as our nominee.
None less than Howard Dean told me early in 2015 to watch Gillibrand if Hillary decided not to run, as he saw her as someone with potential. But Howard knows better than anyone how even someone with potential can fizzle out.
Rene
(1,183 posts)Will never get my vote.
RhodeIslandOne
(5,042 posts)dem4decades
(11,296 posts)And from the same author.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)Al Franken was railroaded by the poster's hero. An important vote was lost because the people who did this to him would not let the process for violations like the ones alleged to continue. Just ran him out of town on a rail. Fuck that. Democrat jealous of another Democrat is more like it.
Meowmee
(5,164 posts)😹 same people here as usual as well defending kg etc.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)rzemanfl
(29,565 posts)I wonder what time it is there?
Crunchy Frog
(26,587 posts)USALiberal
(10,877 posts)VOX
(22,976 posts)They often appear together, and share the same "voice" -- brief, blunt, reflexive, both gliding up and down their OPs, picking out the dissenters, and then wearing them down with repetitive one-sentence questions, etc. It's almost like they're the same person.
tavernier
(12,392 posts)VOX
(22,976 posts)MineralMan
(146,317 posts)that pops up a full screen video ad almost immediately. I do not stay on such sites, so I didn't read your article. I don't do click-bait.
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)Vinca
(50,276 posts)my nose to vote for her in a general election. I hope she doesn't run for POTUS.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)"overreacted" She did not want the competition she would have lost to. Period. That's the real deal, the elephant in our room.
ProudLib72
(17,984 posts)I saw it as grandstanding to garner attention, not necessarily to get rid of competition. But now that you mention it, I have a new reason to be pissed. That's just insidious.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Still, I would not vote for her in a primary except under very specific circumstances.
She has a long history of having a really good voice.
tenderfoot
(8,437 posts)eom
PubliusEnigma
(1,583 posts)kimbutgar
(21,157 posts)Just dont feel warm and cozy about her. Eck!
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)How so? What where Frankens legislative accomplishments that made him the greatest warrior? And its not that I dont think Franken was a good Senator. But just that the cult of personality that has been built up around him doesnt reflect reality.
kimbutgar
(21,157 posts)Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)and makes him the greatest warrior? Got anything else?
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Wish she wouldn't have had her name at the top of the "Franken Resign" list.
Wonder why she gets all of the flack.
Link to tweet
?lang=en
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)Hmph!
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Only one is faulted. And the one faulted has a really good track record.
Again, I don't agree with her role.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)It's just that we have someone posting again and again about that one. It's becoming tiresome, really.
I disagreed with Sanders, too, when he said that. Very short-sighted of him. Very short-sighted of them all, really.
Bring up some others and I'll fault them, as well. But we keep seeing Kirsten Gillibrand's name this week in posts by the same person. So, that's who's being faulted just now.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)BannonsLiver
(16,396 posts)But you knew that already. So again, for the umpteenth time, thats why she gets blamed. Not sure whats so difficult about that.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Senator after senator on our side went public calling for his resignation. No difficulty with comprehension. Thanks.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)I'll see myself out....
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)stonecutter357
(12,697 posts)MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)when people are accused of sexual harassment. I won't support her in a Democratic primary, but will vote for her if she were to win the nomination.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)Them's the facts. Can't rewrite history.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)She politically put him in an untenable position, where he felt forced to resign. You can massage the facts all you want, but most Democrats will not support her in a presidential primary.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)We just came upon a fact.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)which is what Gillibrand used against Franken. Sorry NCTraveler there are way too many of us who don't like KG for her to secure the nomination.
brooklynite
(94,591 posts)MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)poetshepherd
(37 posts)If she had truly cared about 'me too' she would have INSISTED Franken AND his accusers all testify under oath. He-said vs she-said is why we have trump.
Franken was willing to testify, his accusers--no. Why? And why did Franken 'grope' women only in public, in front of many witnesses [typical predator behavior, huh]?
Gillibrand did what she did to eliminate a foe and draw attention to herself. Now she will never be on any Dem national ticket. And that is a good thing.
elfin
(6,262 posts)that she learned about 'Due Process?" Oh, right, she didn't.
She is dead to me now and forever.
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)It is unfortunate so many have made their minds about her, and no number of actual facts will change it. The whole Franken thing has become a cult of personality. Somehow hes become the most effective, most progressive, most anti-Trump Senator who ever lived. The way some react to the situation you would think Gillibrand paid the women to accuse Franken, then took his family hostage to get him to apologize and held a gun to his head to force him to resign.
VOX
(22,976 posts)She revealed her true character with that maneuver.
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)Did Harris, Warren and Sanders also reveal their true character by calling for Franken to resign?
VOX
(22,976 posts)It was a coordinated, political divide-and-conquer hit by the right, nothing more. The stories told to right-wing media were quite likely just that, calculated embellishments (or outright falsehoods) aimed like torpedoes at one of our best liberal senators.
And, unlike Republicans, who defend their own walking travesties with fang and claw (Franken's "misdeeds" come nowhere close to the twisted perverts on the right, a la Roy Moore, etc.), these "rush-to-purity judgement" Democrats shoved Franken out the door all too swiftly, in a reflexive attempt to claim some moral high ground amid the chaos.
And that ill-advised action is emblematic of Democrats/progressives' frustrating knack for poor strategy. In these god-awful times, when the perception of reality itself is thrown into question, the superior tactic would have been to fight for Franken, give him fair process, and reveal the true nature of the right-wing hit-job that Democrats actually enabled by surrendering before a fight. It's also important to remember that Franken himself wanted a Senate Ethics inquiry regarding his alleged behavior. Democrats (and Sanders) should have at least given him that chance.
My views are hardly on the fringe: Some 75,380 individuals have signed a "We Support Al Franken" petition on change.org: https://www.change.org/p/charles-schumer-we-support-al-franken
https://www.thedailybeast.com/senator-al-frankens-resignation-is-deeply-unfair
Senator Al Frankens Resignation Is Deeply Unfair
As the senator is expected to officially resign Tuesday, many Minnesotans dont believe he should have stepped downand he never got a fair process with the harassment allegations.
<snip>
https://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/story/news/politics/2017/12/18/leahy-regrets-calling-franken-resign/962194001/
Leahy regrets calling for Franken to resign
Sen. Patrick Leahy now says he was too hasty in calling for Sen. Al Franken to resign following allegations of sexual harassment.
The senior Vermont senator said Monday that his fellow Democrat should have been allowed to go through an ethics investigation.
<snip>
https://www.salon.com/2017/12/19/democratic-senators-ask-al-franken-to-reconsider-his-resignation/
Some Democratic Senators want Al Franken to reconsider his resignation.
Democratic Senators are torn on whether Frankens quick ouster was the right move.
<snip>
https://newrepublic.com/article/146255/backlash
Backlash: The implications of sending Al Franken packing are starting to become clear on Capitol Hill. And they are troubling.
<snip>
Members of Congress have been speaking uneasily among themselves ever since Al Franken was drummed out of the Senate by many of his Democratic colleagues in early December. Nobody wants to talk about it on the record, but politicians in both parties and in both chambers remain disturbed by how Franken was dealt with by some of his Senate colleagues. In particular, a number of Senate Democrats were bothered by how Franken was treated, as was a large but unmeasurable portion of citizens. And some of the unfortunate implications are already becoming clear.
The whole thing happened with startling speedno deliberations, no process, and no pause for thought, it seemed. The main actors against him got increasingly worked upand they struck at the first opportunity. The entire episode, from when the first complaint about Franken was aired to when he announced unhappily that hed leave the Senate, took three weeks; his self-appointed prosecutors turned on a dime, at first supporting and then throwing process (consideration by the Senate ethics committee) to the wind. There wasnt even a meeting of the party caucus to deliberate and discuss. (Male Democratic senators with misgivings didnt want to get in the way of the women.) A group of Democratic women senators got up a head of steam; its ringleader, Senator Kirsten Gillibrand of New York, declared, a doctrine of zero tolerance. Enough is enough! became not just an expression of exasperation but a policy.
With this precedent members of Congress (and others as well) became vulnerable to the acts of people not of good will. What is the protection against someone or several people deciding to gang up on a member of Congress by inventing incidents?
<snip>
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)Why did Franken repeatedly apologize instead of fighting back?
VOX
(22,976 posts)He was a politician, and to paraphrase John Lennon, "Love [or being a politician] means saying you're sorry every fifteen minutes." That he didn't have solid backing from fellow Democrats (and Bernie), and that they tossed him to the wolves on a purity basis, what's he supposed to do? Say he "grabbed 'em by the pussy"? (And that didn't hurt the Orange Asshole one bit, as his fellow Republicans circled the wagons around their cult-figurehead, much to our frustration. Hell, even being a total Putin-tool doesn't get them to turn against him.)
And as a politician, he had to ruffle down the feathers of his constituents, probably figuring (erroneously) that he'd soon have his day in court with an ethics inquiry.
But it's not like he was, or is, down on his hands and knees, begging forgiveness:
http://time.com/5057462/al-franken-resignation-sorry/
I of all people, Franken said on the Senate floor, am aware that there is some irony in the fact that I am leaving while a man who has bragged on tape about his history of sexual assault sits in the Oval Office, and a man who has repeatedly preyed on young girls' campaigns for the Senate with the full support of his party.
<snip>
https://www.vox.com/2018/5/21/17352230/al-franken-accusations-resignation-democrats-leann-tweeden-kirsten-gillibrand
<snip>
Franken didnt get his day in front of the Ethics Committee
When Franken admitted the Tweeden photo was real, he apologized and called for an ethics investigation into his own behavior. When other women came forward with similar accounts of being groped during a photo, he apologized repeatedly but couldnt seem to remember whether he did the thing the woman claimed.
Since the matter wasnt settled, progressives argue, Franken deserved a full investigation before Democrats determined his fate. The Ethics Committee started an initial inquiry, but they never completed their work because Franken agreed to leave before they could.
In hindsight, a set of Democrats felt hustled. Gillibrand, who led the charge against Franken, is widely assumed to be setting up a run for the presidency in 2020. She forced her colleagues hands in a deft public maneuver that made it hard for them not to go along with her. Some Democrats have since name-checked her with a tinge of resentment. Other liberals openly called her the type of names aggressive women who want to run for president get called. Michael Tomasky at the Daily Beast compared her to the Queen of Hearts, Lewis Carrolls unhinged monarch who screams, Off with their heads!
Even a number of senators who pressured Franken to leave have regrets. Maybe they were too hasty. I think we acted prematurely, before we had all the facts, an anonymous senator told Politico. In retrospect, I think we acted too fast.
<snip>
- - - - - - -
And with that, I am DONE with the subject of Al Franken. Peace.
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)before any said a word against him. Why didnt he fight back instead? Maybe if he did more Dems would have stuck him.
VOX
(22,976 posts)"Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?"
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)including that Franken kept apologizing.
VOX
(22,976 posts)I clearly stated that I was through with this pointless back-and-forth three posts ago. You have your "facts," and I have mine, which I have documented with numerous published sources. But neither of us is going to convince the other of anything.
So let's simply agree to disagree, and save our powder for Republicans, proto-nazis, Russian trolls, Trumpists, and the like.
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)Im just bringing up the verifiable facts of the matter. Franken apologized several times and didnt fight back long before any other Democrat said a word against him. That is a fact. And there were over 30 Senators who called for him to resign including Harris, Warren and Sanders. Again a fact. As progressives we should embrace facts even those that are uncomfortable for us to acknowledge.
VOX
(22,976 posts)But that does seem a bit extreme.
tavernier
(12,392 posts)Very clearly explains why most of us feel the way we do about how the Franken thing was handled. Sadly it tarnished a number of Democrats in all of our eyes. I didnt know much about KG, but Sanders and Warren really disappointed me when they were part of stirring the tar and plucking the feathers.
VOX
(22,976 posts)As you can see, I'm being trolled like crazy for my statement. So I genuinely appreciate your back-up!
Response to oberliner (Original post)
Post removed
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)Be careful, though. As the midterm election is drawing near, there's a new group posting here again. A lot of threads got hidden the last time, a couple of years ago. Exercise due caution.
Crunchy Frog
(26,587 posts)Anyway, I try not to get involved in primary fights. I do have strong feelings about Franken, though.
jalan48
(13,870 posts)Kingofalldems
(38,458 posts)brooklynite
(94,591 posts)Gillibrand is a sitting US Senator. Articles about her are relevant for discussion.
Kingofalldems
(38,458 posts)Or do I need your permission?
brooklynite
(94,591 posts)...but perhaps impugning the motives of the poster is uncalled for.
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)brooklynite
(94,591 posts)She doesn't need my help to safely get re-elected in New York.
BannonsLiver
(16,396 posts)In the amount of money donated each cycle. Thats always my personal fave.
brooklynite
(94,591 posts)Just an observation - before the Bernie or Bust folks decamped to JPR, they could spoon out MUSCH better insults.
RhodeIslandOne
(5,042 posts)Just asking questions
BannonsLiver
(16,396 posts)Every time they are posted with the intent (we can only assume) of winning converts for KG and it ends up being the same rejection of her every single time. Its like Charlie Brown and Lucy with the football at this point.
OilemFirchen
(7,143 posts)Can it break bigger? Or is it already broken?
CentralMass
(15,265 posts)Last edited Fri Aug 3, 2018, 05:59 PM - Edit history (1)
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)Power 2 the People
(2,437 posts)[link:|]
Owl
(3,642 posts)No thanks to Gillibrand too conservative and spearheading the charge against Franken was ridiculous. Moreover its a little confusing what she actually stands for she had 100% rating from the NRA and took a hardline on immigration in the house then pretty much reversed all of that when she ran for Senate. There are MUCH better options than Gillibrand.
KPN
(15,646 posts)After she led the Dem reaction to the GOPs smear campaign against perhaps our most effective voice (all for self gain it seems), no way. I used to like her a lot, but she really lost my trust on that one big time.
Horse with no Name
(33,956 posts)After her attack on Franken.
That being said, I would hold my nose and vote for her if she is the last one standing.
But. As a woman, she doesnt speak for me.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Horse with no Name
(33,956 posts)Im a pretty firm believer when someone shows you what they are...you believe them.
I dont need her to tell me what she wants me to think of her.
My opinion of her is rock solid.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Might be good to learn more about her.
Horse with no Name
(33,956 posts)I only hope that in her aspirations for higher office that she doesnt take out any more of the Democrats I support.
We have some potentially great candidates out there.
IMHO, she isnt one of them.
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)Is your mind made up about them too?
Ligyron
(7,633 posts)the dems threw Al Franken to the wolves. But it was Kirsten G. who got the ball rolling. For that, she'll never make it out of a primary.
Demsrule86
(68,586 posts)StuckInTexas
(66 posts)The OP is a campaign staffer and they're taking the temperature of a 2020 run? All kidding aside, I don't know if anyone other than the OP knows the point of this post. KG is permanently damaged goods though. She has multiple instances now of throwing allies under the bus in attempts to further her career. She is done as a national candidate.