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oberliner

(58,724 posts)
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 02:20 PM Aug 2018

Breaking Big: How Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand Became a Warrior for Women

It took 10 years of working on other people’s campaigns before Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand worked up enough confidence to run herself. That’s typical for a lot of women, she says. But Gillibrand grew up surrounded by strong women — her grandmother, Polly Noonan, was a secretary in the New York State Legislature in Albany — who influenced her political ambitions.

After law school, Gillibrand went into corporate law but quickly felt lost. Searching for more meaning in her life, she found inspiration when she heard Hillary Clinton call for more women to help make decisions in Washington, D.C. Running in a very red district in Albany, Gillibrand officially launched her political career by defying the odds and getting elected to the U.S. Congress in 2006. In 2008, she became a New York senator, filling the vacancy left by Clinton when she was appointed U.S. secretary of state.

Today, Gillibrand continues to work tirelessly as an advocate for women’s rights. She’s seen as a fearless leader, unafraid to challenge the status quo, and her name is high on the list for possible 2020 presidential contenders.

https://www.ozy.com/true-story/breaking-big-how-sen-kirsten-gillibrand-became-a-fearless-leader-for-women/88455
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Breaking Big: How Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand Became a Warrior for Women (Original Post) oberliner Aug 2018 OP
Gillibrand pamdb Aug 2018 #1
I encourage you to reconsider that perspective oberliner Aug 2018 #4
We seem to have this ongoing problem... yallerdawg Aug 2018 #65
Problem here is zentrum Aug 2018 #84
"Problem here is" you are peddling misinformation and falsehoods. yallerdawg Aug 2018 #87
Franken was run out on a rail. pangaia Aug 2018 #102
Franken was taken out by the REPUBLICANS. Hortensis Aug 2018 #124
I'm always amenable zentrum Aug 2018 #112
It's no rumor. Leeann tweeden is a RWNJ BannonsLiver Aug 2018 #106
Should men, then, also vote for her? question everything Aug 2018 #101
+1 EffieBlack Aug 2018 #52
You are correct. My husband and I have the exact same feelings as you. beaglelover Aug 2018 #72
Do you are blaming a woman for the bad behavior of a man? all american girl Aug 2018 #90
Right on target. Blue_true Aug 2018 #98
Blah blah blah BannonsLiver Aug 2018 #107
Not the facts. lark Aug 2018 #113
Franken on that picture: yallerdawg Aug 2018 #122
+1000! nt USALiberal Aug 2018 #92
This message was self-deleted by its author SharonClark Aug 2018 #155
By going after Al Franken? dem4decades Aug 2018 #2
Please consider having an open mind and getting to know more about her oberliner Aug 2018 #3
I'll give her as much of a fair hearing as she gave Al. dem4decades Aug 2018 #8
She is a Democrat who has fought for the causes promoted by DUers since she got to the Senate oberliner Aug 2018 #11
So did Al sdfernando Aug 2018 #67
But how can I ever trust her on anything important? lark Aug 2018 #50
Just spitballing here, but how about looking at her voting record? brooklynite Aug 2018 #53
Being a senator is about more than votes EffieBlack Aug 2018 #60
People are more than just policies, there's character and she's badly lacking IMO. lark Aug 2018 #61
...along with 99% of the other Democratic Senators? brooklynite Aug 2018 #68
I wish she'd shown an open mind before leading the fight to drum of our best senators out of office EffieBlack Aug 2018 #58
Nope, I know all I need to know! nt USALiberal Aug 2018 #93
Agreed. At the very least, Senator Gillibrand showed very poor judgment Vogon_Glory Aug 2018 #6
I think he should go long and run for President janterry Aug 2018 #82
She screwed my state out of its best senator since Paul Wellstone, The Velveteen Ocelot Aug 2018 #5
That seems unfair oberliner Aug 2018 #7
So did Al Franken. The Velveteen Ocelot Aug 2018 #9
Does what happened with Franken negate all the good work she has done? oberliner Aug 2018 #13
Do you live in New York? Then vote for her. MineralMan Aug 2018 #14
THANK YOU!!! Raster Aug 2018 #28
LOL --good one.. And I live in NY. pangaia Aug 2018 #103
It negates the good work Al Franken was doing and would have continued to do. The Velveteen Ocelot Aug 2018 #15
You can say the same thing about Al Franken's good work EffieBlack Aug 2018 #64
Amen! No, No, and Hell no! DFW Aug 2018 #78
Kinda where I am, but of course, it depends on who's still in the running when voting in the primary InAbLuEsTaTe Aug 2018 #48
Exactly. Owl Aug 2018 #120
I saw her on Stephen Colbert. GeorgeGist Aug 2018 #10
That's my problem with her, she just seems too "politician-y" unitedwethrive Aug 2018 #132
So what? I mean, most of us don't vote where she's running. MineralMan Aug 2018 #12
I'm with you. I can't vote for or against her at this point, The Velveteen Ocelot Aug 2018 #16
I'm sure there will be plenty of great candidates for the 2020 primaries. MineralMan Aug 2018 #18
The point is Drahthaardogs Aug 2018 #104
At this stage, none of it matters. MineralMan Aug 2018 #114
I hope Amy Klobuchar runs RhodeIslandOne Aug 2018 #20
I could support Amy as a presidential candidate, although MineralMan Aug 2018 #22
Even though she asked Franken to step down as well... brooklynite Aug 2018 #55
As I said, there are others I prefer over Amy. MineralMan Aug 2018 #63
Wrong RhodeIslandOne Aug 2018 #99
I never said she did publicly. brooklynite Aug 2018 #117
Then it was not the same.... RhodeIslandOne Aug 2018 #118
"repeatedly and without pause"..."with zeal" brooklynite Aug 2018 #119
See, I really don't need to RhodeIslandOne Aug 2018 #127
You realize I was a supporter of Al Franken, right? brooklynite Aug 2018 #128
Meh. I've never been all that impressed with her. The Velveteen Ocelot Aug 2018 #24
That is one of my problems with her, too DFW Aug 2018 #83
She betrayed a wonderful fellow Democrat....Franken. Gillibrand can go pound sand. Rene Aug 2018 #17
Folks: When you saw the headline, was there any doubt who posted it? RhodeIslandOne Aug 2018 #19
What's the deal there. I recognized the thread was familiar dem4decades Aug 2018 #30
nope heaven05 Aug 2018 #32
Nope Meowmee Aug 2018 #54
I wish it wasn't true uponit7771 Aug 2018 #62
I am waiting for Casprings to show up. That poster loved to stir this pot. rzemanfl Aug 2018 #69
Haha. Nope. Crunchy Frog Aug 2018 #74
Nope! nt USALiberal Aug 2018 #94
No surprise at all. And there also appears to be a "no-doubter" twin. Maybe I'm wrong, but... VOX Aug 2018 #143
I was totally shocked!!! tavernier Aug 2018 #145
Gambling in this establishment! VOX Aug 2018 #148
On another subject, your link goes to a site MineralMan Aug 2018 #21
Thanks for the interesting reply. nt USALiberal Aug 2018 #95
She overreacted to Franken. I wouldn't support her in a primary and would have to hold Vinca Aug 2018 #23
that's the very reason she heaven05 Aug 2018 #39
You really think so? ProudLib72 Aug 2018 #51
I wouldn't mind if she did. NCTraveler Aug 2018 #42
oyz.com, what a bullshit source tenderfoot Aug 2018 #25
No, thanks. PubliusEnigma Aug 2018 #26
I am having a hard time forgiving her for forcing out our greatest warrior for us Al Franken kimbutgar Aug 2018 #27
Greatest warrior?. Trumpocalypse Aug 2018 #71
I guess you don't remember how he made Sessions skittish during his confirmation hearing kimbutgar Aug 2018 #97
Ok that's one thing Trumpocalypse Aug 2018 #100
Really like her. NCTraveler Aug 2018 #29
Yes. He did say that, didn't he? MineralMan Aug 2018 #33
Lots and lots of people did. NCTraveler Aug 2018 #37
No, not only one is faulted. Not at all. MineralMan Aug 2018 #43
You make a great point. nt NCTraveler Aug 2018 #46
She led the charge BannonsLiver Aug 2018 #108
Nothing difficult about it at all. NCTraveler Aug 2018 #111
This too uponit7771 Aug 2018 #45
Al Franken workinclasszero Aug 2018 #31
This.nt NCTraveler Aug 2018 #40
LOL !!! stonecutter357 Aug 2018 #34
Sad thing is she doesn't seem to believe in due process MoonRiver Aug 2018 #35
She never denied anyone due process. At all. nt NCTraveler Aug 2018 #38
She led the movement forcing Franken to resign before he got the due process he requested. MoonRiver Aug 2018 #41
She did not deny him due process. NCTraveler Aug 2018 #44
She had no power to deny him due process. MoonRiver Aug 2018 #47
"She had no power to deny him due process." NCTraveler Aug 2018 #49
"Denying due process" can also amount to massive political pressure, MoonRiver Aug 2018 #57
Point to the "facts" that support your claim that "most Democrats will not support her". brooklynite Aug 2018 #59
JMHO MoonRiver Aug 2018 #66
Gilli is damaged goods poetshepherd Aug 2018 #36
And so when was it in her "fearless" march to power elfin Aug 2018 #56
Thank you for posting Trumpocalypse Aug 2018 #70
She threw Al Franken into a ditch, and we lost our most cogent, hard-hitting House Democrat. VOX Aug 2018 #73
How so? Trumpocalypse Aug 2018 #115
Honestly? YES, they did. No one, including those three, even heard Franken's side of the story. VOX Aug 2018 #129
One question Trumpocalypse Aug 2018 #130
Jesus H. Christ, what's he gonna do, take on fellow Democrats AND the right wing ALONE? VOX Aug 2018 #133
He apologized several times Trumpocalypse Aug 2018 #139
You just keep playing the same note, in this and other threads. DONE. VOX Aug 2018 #142
Yes I keep bringing up the same facts. Trumpocalypse Aug 2018 #144
No, that's not what you're doing. You are fomenting discord and ill-will with a fellow DUer. VOX Aug 2018 #149
Speak for yourself Trumpocalypse Aug 2018 #151
FRESH FACT: WELCOME TO IGNORE. n/t VOX Aug 2018 #152
OK Trumpocalypse Aug 2018 #153
Great post! tavernier Aug 2018 #146
Thank you! VOX Aug 2018 #147
Post removed Post removed Aug 2018 #75
Oh, snap! MineralMan Aug 2018 #77
Just taking one for the team if it gets deleted. Crunchy Frog Aug 2018 #79
No thanks. Her previous career as an attorney defending big tobacco was all I needed to know. jalan48 Aug 2018 #76
Another anti Al Franken victory lap I see. Kingofalldems Aug 2018 #80
As opposed to the monthly "I miss Al Franken" posts? brooklynite Aug 2018 #85
I can also comment on them. Kingofalldems Aug 2018 #88
You may certainly comment... brooklynite Aug 2018 #89
I know, you know her Staff, Etc, Etc, Etc! We get it. nt USALiberal Aug 2018 #96
Actually, I have no contact with Gillibrand at all... brooklynite Aug 2018 #116
Don't forget the rubbing of noses BannonsLiver Aug 2018 #123
I see, you'd prefer to have our candidates underfunded? brooklynite Aug 2018 #131
"Huuuuuuh? What are you talking about?" RhodeIslandOne Aug 2018 #105
They're also fishing OPs BannonsLiver Aug 2018 #109
What does "Breaking Big" mean in the context of this article? OilemFirchen Aug 2018 #81
She does not appear on my list of candidates that I would vote for in the primary CentralMass Aug 2018 #86
LOL, Nice try!! nt USALiberal Aug 2018 #91
Will voter for her in a General but never in a primary Power 2 the People Aug 2018 #110
No thanks. Owl Aug 2018 #121
I agree jcgoldie Aug 2018 #125
KG won't get my vote during the primary. KPN Aug 2018 #126
She's not going to be my first, second or third choice Horse with no Name Aug 2018 #134
What did you think of the video? oberliner Aug 2018 #135
Not interested in watching KG propaganda Horse with no Name Aug 2018 #136
She is a Democrat oberliner Aug 2018 #137
So is Manchin. Luckily neither need my vote. Horse with no Name Aug 2018 #138
What about Harris, Warren and Sanders? Trumpocalypse Aug 2018 #140
Too anxious to be seen as holding the moral high ground during the Roy Moore debacle Ligyron Aug 2018 #141
What is the point of this thread other than division? Demsrule86 Aug 2018 #150
Perhaps StuckInTexas Aug 2018 #154

pamdb

(1,332 posts)
1. Gillibrand
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 02:23 PM
Aug 2018

I will never forgive her for pushing Al Franken out. I would vote for her if she got the nomination, but I really hope she doesn't. I'm not the only one who feels this way.

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
65. We seem to have this ongoing problem...
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 03:40 PM
Aug 2018

holding the woman more accountable than the action of the man.

This seems to be just one more barrier for women in politics.

zentrum

(9,865 posts)
84. Problem here is
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 04:46 PM
Aug 2018

...that one of the women he allegedy harrased (in the photo) said she was in on the joke and not at all harrassed.

Another issue is the on-going rumor that one of the women was a rightwing shill.

The women who worked in his Senate Office describe it him as running the safest-for-women office in Washington.

We needed a well-aired, due process investigation, which he asked for. It didn't really do a damn thing for the Democrats and is now a story that will do nothing but harm her should she care to mention it during her climb to the Presidency. It had no effect whateveron Repugs and their agenda.

Meanwhile we've lost one of the best Democrats in the Senate.

What good was it?

This rush to oust Al upsets me and all the other women I know. I'm haviing a really hard time getting over it.







yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
87. "Problem here is" you are peddling misinformation and falsehoods.
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 04:56 PM
Aug 2018

Franken resigned. That was his decision.

Holding another woman accountable for what a man does is the real problem here.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/photographer-said-franken-image-was-staged/

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
124. Franken was taken out by the REPUBLICANS.
Sat Aug 4, 2018, 01:15 PM
Aug 2018

You guys should stop helping keep their fire stoked for them. That's stupid. Once Al had 8 accusers, all the party's leaders and all his colleagues couldn't save him, and the vast majority really wanted to.

As for Gillebrand, she's conservative by nature. Her state's Democrats elected her, and I'm fine with her in the senate because she has adopted more liberal positions. And because she's probably fairly moderate, certainly not one of those hatemongering social conservatives who'd destroy our nation if that's what it'd take to destroy the liberalism it was founded on.

But I don't want Gillebrand as a top senate leader because she is conservative, and I question the motives of some who are pushing that idea. Adopting liberal positions because she has to run for election in a blue state doesn't alter her basic nature.

zentrum

(9,865 posts)
112. I'm always amenable
Sat Aug 4, 2018, 09:00 AM
Aug 2018

.....to the facts.

But am still suspicious of the fact that Tweeden's radio co-host is a right winger and pal of Roger Stone who is an arch political operative, as I'm sure you know.

Have often thought Franken was not funny. I think a stunt like that done in full view for a camera, while it shows he needs consciousness raising, is not worth the price we paid---losing a fantastic Democrat in this dire time.

A due process procedure could have been useful for the public, cleared up all the Tweeden rumors, still shown the difference between the Democrats and the Repugs, allowed him to apologize and possibly---possibly---we could have kept one of our best.

If she wanted to make her point, Gillibrand could have done it by leading the due process investigation. If he had to go after that---after a full airing---and apology---then so be it.

It has gained Gillibrand nothing. It was a blip. Many Dems are now furious at her. The Me Too movement is unstoppable and not improved by taking out Franken.

Hope he'll run for Governor of Minn. Though we need him desperately in the Senate. Facing the Kavanaugh confirmation without Al is frigthening.

As a life-long feminist, I'd still take Franken in the Senate over Gillibrand any day.

question everything

(47,486 posts)
101. Should men, then, also vote for her?
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 09:42 PM
Aug 2018

Yes, being an advocate for women is great, but this is still a single issue politician.

Where does she stand on foreign policy? domestic? economic?

all american girl

(1,788 posts)
90. Do you are blaming a woman for the bad behavior of a man?
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 06:48 PM
Aug 2018

Smells like misogyny. You do realize that standing up for those how have sexually assaulted and harassed has been her work, right? You do know that others in the Sen also told Franken he needed to step down, right? I'm tired of people constantly blaming a woman when a man gets busted for grabbing women's asses and tits...but you go ahead and blame her because you like Franken....

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
98. Right on target.
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 08:02 PM
Aug 2018

As I like to say, if she took out a US Senator with 46 other colleagues able to block her, make her President now!!!

lark

(23,105 posts)
113. Not the facts.
Sat Aug 4, 2018, 09:19 AM
Aug 2018

Tweeden is a rwnj, worked with Stone & Hannity to coordinate this hit job. The photographer and others in the room said she lied, Franken absolutely didn't grope her. I am a former rape counselor, so there is no one more committed to women's safety than me. However, his one accuser is a liar and has a definite political agenda to stop Franken from his pointed questioning of drumpf & co. treachery. One of the others complained because he put his arm around her waist when posing for a picture she requested, sorry, that's not an attack. Franken has not been proven to do anything wrong, so we are not blaming a woman for his bad behavior, that's just spin. I dislike her because she spearheaded the effort to get rid of him, for her own personal gain only. I do dislike that other dems jumped on this train and I really distrust them as well. When the going got tough, they refused to stand up for the truth and sold out one of our most effective Dems and helped drumpf & co. immensely. If Franken actually assaulted anyone, I would feel 100% different, but so far there is zero evidence that happened, yet he still got pushed out.

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
122. Franken on that picture:
Sat Aug 4, 2018, 12:46 PM
Aug 2018
"I respect women. I don't respect men who don't. And the fact that my own actions have given people a good reason to doubt that makes me feel ashamed.

"But I want to say something else, too. Over the last few months, all of us—including and especially men who respect women—have been forced to take a good, hard look at our own actions and think (perhaps, shamefully, for the first time) about how those actions have affected women.

"For instance, that picture. I don't know what was in my head when I took that picture, and it doesn't matter. There's no excuse. I look at it now and I feel disgusted with myself. It isn't funny. It's completely inappropriate. It's obvious how Leeann would feel violated by that picture. And, what's more, I can see how millions of other women would feel violated by it—women who have had similar experiences in their own lives, women who fear having those experiences, women who look up to me, women who have counted on me.

"Coming from the world of comedy, I've told and written a lot of jokes that I once thought were funny but later came to realize were just plain offensive. But the intentions behind my actions aren't the point at all. It's the impact these jokes had on others that matters. And I'm sorry it's taken so long to come to terms with that.
https://www.cnn.com/2017/11/16/politics/al-franken-apology/index.html

I guess we can't say the woman in the picture "was asking for it" when she's wearing a flak jacket, helmet and fatigues - but saying "she's a RWNJ" is pretty much the same thing, isn't it?

I'll take Al Franken's word for it he was responsible for his own actions. And responsible for his own resignation.

Response to pamdb (Reply #1)

dem4decades

(11,296 posts)
2. By going after Al Franken?
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 02:24 PM
Aug 2018

You say Kirsten, I say Al.

You say Gillibrand, I say Franken.

And if i get in trouble for missing Al Franken, then so be it.

I love that guy.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
3. Please consider having an open mind and getting to know more about her
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 02:28 PM
Aug 2018

She truly has done a lot of great things and will hopefully do a lot more in the future.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
11. She is a Democrat who has fought for the causes promoted by DUers since she got to the Senate
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 02:35 PM
Aug 2018

Literally a "dem4decades" in every respect.

lark

(23,105 posts)
50. But how can I ever trust her on anything important?
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 03:27 PM
Aug 2018

She also backstabbed the Clintons, who were her mentors, It seems to be part of her dna, hurting others, even her friends, just to make herself look good, and not caring about what the truth is. I would never vote for her in a primary, although I would in the general. I'm praying hard she is not our candidate in 2020 because I believe she will hurt our cause.

brooklynite

(94,591 posts)
53. Just spitballing here, but how about looking at her voting record?
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 03:32 PM
Aug 2018

Name a POLICY position she's stated that she reigned on?

lark

(23,105 posts)
61. People are more than just policies, there's character and she's badly lacking IMO.
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 03:37 PM
Aug 2018

I can name you 2 people she backstabbed for her own gain, that shows a bad lack of character. There are so many better people with equally good, if not a lot better, progressive policies that are also interested in running. I will vote for one of them in the primaries. Others may not feel this way and are free to vote for whoever they approve of in the primary, although I do want everyone to vote for the person with a D behind their name in the general and will do that myself 100%.

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
58. I wish she'd shown an open mind before leading the fight to drum of our best senators out of office
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 03:34 PM
Aug 2018

Vogon_Glory

(9,118 posts)
6. Agreed. At the very least, Senator Gillibrand showed very poor judgment
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 02:31 PM
Aug 2018

by assuming and acting as if that right-wing political hit job on Al Franken was true. She should have known better, and there’s little evidence that she’s learned from the experience.

 

janterry

(4,429 posts)
82. I think he should go long and run for President
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 04:45 PM
Aug 2018

I really like Al. I think he has 'another act' left in him - if he's willing to climb that mountain. I would vote for him in a heartbeat!

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,732 posts)
5. She screwed my state out of its best senator since Paul Wellstone,
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 02:30 PM
Aug 2018

so to hell with her. Since she isn't from my state I can't vote for her or against her, but if she does run for president I'll vote for whoever runs against her in the primaries. If she is nominated, which I doubt will happen, I'll vote for her but only because I won't vote for a Republican.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
7. That seems unfair
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 02:32 PM
Aug 2018

She has done some very good work in Congress and is a champion of many important Democratic causes.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,732 posts)
15. It negates the good work Al Franken was doing and would have continued to do.
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 02:41 PM
Aug 2018

He was the best advocate this state has had in many years, as well as one of the most forceful members of the Senate Judiciary Committee. He was also a very effect fundraiser for Democrats. Gillibrand will pay a price for kneecapping him, and she deserves it.

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
64. You can say the same thing about Al Franken's good work
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 03:39 PM
Aug 2018

Gillibrand didn’t seem to think Al Franken’s excellent work mattered when she decided he should be run out of office. And, funny thing - many of the people who supported her in that effort sneered at those of us who tried to get them to balance his good work against his supposed wrongdoing, insisting that one did not obviate the other.

But now you expect us to suddenly start balancing her other work against something she did that we find reprehensible?

No.

DFW

(54,403 posts)
78. Amen! No, No, and Hell no!
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 04:37 PM
Aug 2018

If she enters the race for president in 2020, I will vote for her if she is the nominee, but I would only support her the nomination if no better Democrat runs, something I figure to be a near impossibility.

GeorgeGist

(25,321 posts)
10. I saw her on Stephen Colbert.
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 02:35 PM
Aug 2018

She was weak on answering the questions he asked ie., her canned responses didn't fit.

unitedwethrive

(1,997 posts)
132. That's my problem with her, she just seems too "politician-y"
Sat Aug 4, 2018, 08:52 PM
Aug 2018

Too many memorized responses. But I'd rather have her than any repub any day of the week!

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
12. So what? I mean, most of us don't vote where she's running.
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 02:36 PM
Aug 2018

I leave each state and district to its own devices when it comes to candidates and elections. Unless one lives in New York, she's not really an issue, is she?

Why are you pushing this, I wonder? Are you planning to champion her as a Presidential candidate in 2020? If so, I can assure you that I'll be supporting someone else in the primaries. I promise.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,732 posts)
16. I'm with you. I can't vote for or against her at this point,
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 02:44 PM
Aug 2018

but I'll sure as hell support someone else in the primaries if she runs. She isn't going to get many votes out of Minnesota, that's for sure.

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
18. I'm sure there will be plenty of great candidates for the 2020 primaries.
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 02:47 PM
Aug 2018

I'll choose one to support when there's a list.

I don't think the OP lives in NY, either, so I'm not sure what the point of this is, actually.

Drahthaardogs

(6,843 posts)
104. The point is
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 10:31 PM
Aug 2018

She wants a woman in the White House and sees Gillibrand's gambit (tossing Al under the bus) as the start of her campaign.

Gillibrand's thought her actions would showcase her as a champion of women who will stand up to her own party because she is self righteous and stuff like that.

She fucked up because she wasn't smart enough to pick a real sleeze to make her spectacle. Instead she picked poor old Al, too kind to call her accusers liars (even though we all figured it out).

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
114. At this stage, none of it matters.
Sat Aug 4, 2018, 09:22 AM
Aug 2018

Potential presidential primary candidates will shake themselves out, starting next year.

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
22. I could support Amy as a presidential candidate, although
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 02:53 PM
Aug 2018

she probably wouldn't be my first choice. I like her. I've met her. She does a good job for Minnesota in the Senate. I'm not sure she would be the best Democratic Presidential choice, though.

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
63. As I said, there are others I prefer over Amy.
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 03:37 PM
Aug 2018

I would vote for Gillibrand if she became the Democratic Nominee, too. I vote for the Democratic nominee for President. Every last freaking time.

I'm very consistent that way.

 

RhodeIslandOne

(5,042 posts)
99. Wrong
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 09:19 PM
Aug 2018

Klobuchar did not jump out publicly and call for and only said he should after a private meeting and it was obvious he was going to anyway.

brooklynite

(94,591 posts)
117. I never said she did publicly.
Sat Aug 4, 2018, 10:56 AM
Aug 2018

The point is that she agreed with virtually every other Senator, male and female. But apparently we only need one villain.

 

RhodeIslandOne

(5,042 posts)
118. Then it was not the same....
Sat Aug 4, 2018, 11:26 AM
Aug 2018

She did not beat the drum in public repeatedly and without pause like Gillebrand did with zeal.

 

RhodeIslandOne

(5,042 posts)
127. See, I really don't need to
Sat Aug 4, 2018, 02:10 PM
Aug 2018

Instead I’m just gonna lie back and wait until you or one of her cheerleaders posts another article about her where running Al Franken out of office is a high point for her. For all the gaslighting nonsense that she was “one of many” we know deep down how proud you are about it.

brooklynite

(94,591 posts)
128. You realize I was a supporter of Al Franken, right?
Sat Aug 4, 2018, 03:03 PM
Aug 2018

I contributed large amounts to his campaign (feel free to check my FEC records), and spoke to him 2-3 times a year. I thought he should step down AFTER he apologized for his behavior the first time, because as much as I supported him, the new accusations were going to make his political future untenable in the #me-to era. Feel free to remind me that he didn't get "due process", but it was his ultimate choice to step down; nobody forced him to, and having already apologized once, the "it's all lies" defense that was so popular here was never going to be viable.

Sorry if that doesn't fit your "prideful" stereotypes...

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,732 posts)
24. Meh. I've never been all that impressed with her.
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 02:57 PM
Aug 2018

She's always been inclined to be wishy-washy and evasive when faced with controversial issues. She does seem to be developing the rudiments of a spine lately but I think there are much better possible candidates out there.

DFW

(54,403 posts)
83. That is one of my problems with her, too
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 04:45 PM
Aug 2018

We don't need a one trick pony as our nominee.

None less than Howard Dean told me early in 2015 to watch Gillibrand if Hillary decided not to run, as he saw her as someone with potential. But Howard knows better than anyone how even someone with potential can fizzle out.

Rene

(1,183 posts)
17. She betrayed a wonderful fellow Democrat....Franken. Gillibrand can go pound sand.
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 02:44 PM
Aug 2018

Will never get my vote.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
32. nope
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 03:13 PM
Aug 2018

Al Franken was railroaded by the poster's hero. An important vote was lost because the people who did this to him would not let the process for violations like the ones alleged to continue. Just ran him out of town on a rail. Fuck that. Democrat jealous of another Democrat is more like it.

rzemanfl

(29,565 posts)
69. I am waiting for Casprings to show up. That poster loved to stir this pot.
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 03:43 PM
Aug 2018

I wonder what time it is there?

VOX

(22,976 posts)
143. No surprise at all. And there also appears to be a "no-doubter" twin. Maybe I'm wrong, but...
Sun Aug 5, 2018, 05:22 AM
Aug 2018

They often appear together, and share the same "voice" -- brief, blunt, reflexive, both gliding up and down their OPs, picking out the dissenters, and then wearing them down with repetitive one-sentence questions, etc. It's almost like they're the same person.

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
21. On another subject, your link goes to a site
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 02:51 PM
Aug 2018

that pops up a full screen video ad almost immediately. I do not stay on such sites, so I didn't read your article. I don't do click-bait.

Vinca

(50,276 posts)
23. She overreacted to Franken. I wouldn't support her in a primary and would have to hold
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 02:55 PM
Aug 2018

my nose to vote for her in a general election. I hope she doesn't run for POTUS.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
39. that's the very reason she
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 03:16 PM
Aug 2018

"overreacted" She did not want the competition she would have lost to. Period. That's the real deal, the elephant in our room.

ProudLib72

(17,984 posts)
51. You really think so?
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 03:31 PM
Aug 2018

I saw it as grandstanding to garner attention, not necessarily to get rid of competition. But now that you mention it, I have a new reason to be pissed. That's just insidious.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
42. I wouldn't mind if she did.
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 03:18 PM
Aug 2018

Still, I would not vote for her in a primary except under very specific circumstances.

She has a long history of having a really good voice.

kimbutgar

(21,157 posts)
27. I am having a hard time forgiving her for forcing out our greatest warrior for us Al Franken
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 03:07 PM
Aug 2018

Just don’t feel warm and cozy about her. Eck!

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
71. Greatest warrior?.
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 04:14 PM
Aug 2018

How so? What where Franken’s legislative accomplishments that made him the greatest warrior? And it’s not that I don’t think Franken was a good Senator. But just that the cult of personality that has been built up around him doesn’t reflect reality.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
29. Really like her.
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 03:09 PM
Aug 2018

Wish she wouldn't have had her name at the top of the "Franken Resign" list.

Wonder why she gets all of the flack.


?lang=en

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
37. Lots and lots of people did.
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 03:15 PM
Aug 2018

Only one is faulted. And the one faulted has a really good track record.

Again, I don't agree with her role.

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
43. No, not only one is faulted. Not at all.
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 03:18 PM
Aug 2018

It's just that we have someone posting again and again about that one. It's becoming tiresome, really.

I disagreed with Sanders, too, when he said that. Very short-sighted of him. Very short-sighted of them all, really.

Bring up some others and I'll fault them, as well. But we keep seeing Kirsten Gillibrand's name this week in posts by the same person. So, that's who's being faulted just now.

BannonsLiver

(16,396 posts)
108. She led the charge
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 10:58 PM
Aug 2018

But you knew that already. So again, for the umpteenth time, that’s why she gets blamed. Not sure what’s so difficult about that.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
111. Nothing difficult about it at all.
Sat Aug 4, 2018, 12:47 AM
Aug 2018

Senator after senator on our side went public calling for his resignation. No difficulty with comprehension. Thanks.

MoonRiver

(36,926 posts)
35. Sad thing is she doesn't seem to believe in due process
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 03:14 PM
Aug 2018

when people are accused of sexual harassment. I won't support her in a Democratic primary, but will vote for her if she were to win the nomination.

MoonRiver

(36,926 posts)
41. She led the movement forcing Franken to resign before he got the due process he requested.
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 03:17 PM
Aug 2018

Them's the facts. Can't rewrite history.

MoonRiver

(36,926 posts)
47. She had no power to deny him due process.
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 03:23 PM
Aug 2018

She politically put him in an untenable position, where he felt forced to resign. You can massage the facts all you want, but most Democrats will not support her in a presidential primary.

MoonRiver

(36,926 posts)
57. "Denying due process" can also amount to massive political pressure,
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 03:33 PM
Aug 2018

which is what Gillibrand used against Franken. Sorry NCTraveler there are way too many of us who don't like KG for her to secure the nomination.

 

poetshepherd

(37 posts)
36. Gilli is damaged goods
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 03:15 PM
Aug 2018

If she had truly cared about 'me too' she would have INSISTED Franken AND his accusers all testify under oath. He-said vs she-said is why we have trump.

Franken was willing to testify, his accusers--no. Why? And why did Franken 'grope' women only in public, in front of many witnesses [typical predator behavior, huh]?

Gillibrand did what she did to eliminate a foe and draw attention to herself. Now she will never be on any Dem national ticket. And that is a good thing.

elfin

(6,262 posts)
56. And so when was it in her "fearless" march to power
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 03:33 PM
Aug 2018

that she learned about 'Due Process?" Oh, right, she didn't.

She is dead to me now and forever.

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
70. Thank you for posting
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 04:08 PM
Aug 2018

It is unfortunate so many have made their minds about her, and no number of actual facts will change it. The whole Franken thing has become a cult of personality. Somehow he’s become the most effective, most progressive, most anti-Trump Senator who ever lived. The way some react to the situation you would think Gillibrand paid the women to accuse Franken, then took his family hostage to get him to apologize and held a gun to his head to force him to resign.

VOX

(22,976 posts)
73. She threw Al Franken into a ditch, and we lost our most cogent, hard-hitting House Democrat.
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 04:23 PM
Aug 2018

She revealed her true character with that maneuver.

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
115. How so?
Sat Aug 4, 2018, 10:05 AM
Aug 2018

Did Harris, Warren and Sanders also reveal their true character by calling for Franken to resign?

VOX

(22,976 posts)
129. Honestly? YES, they did. No one, including those three, even heard Franken's side of the story.
Sat Aug 4, 2018, 07:21 PM
Aug 2018

It was a coordinated, political divide-and-conquer hit by the right, nothing more. The stories told to right-wing media were quite likely just that, calculated embellishments (or outright falsehoods) aimed like torpedoes at one of our best liberal senators.

And, unlike Republicans, who defend their own walking travesties with fang and claw (Franken's "misdeeds" come nowhere close to the twisted perverts on the right, a la Roy Moore, etc.), these "rush-to-purity judgement" Democrats shoved Franken out the door all too swiftly, in a reflexive attempt to claim some moral high ground amid the chaos.

And that ill-advised action is emblematic of Democrats/progressives' frustrating knack for poor strategy. In these god-awful times, when the perception of reality itself is thrown into question, the superior tactic would have been to fight for Franken, give him fair process, and reveal the true nature of the right-wing hit-job that Democrats actually enabled by surrendering before a fight. It's also important to remember that Franken himself wanted a Senate Ethics inquiry regarding his alleged behavior. Democrats (and Sanders) should have at least given him that chance.

My views are hardly on the fringe: Some 75,380 individuals have signed a "We Support Al Franken" petition on change.org: https://www.change.org/p/charles-schumer-we-support-al-franken

https://www.thedailybeast.com/senator-al-frankens-resignation-is-deeply-unfair
Senator Al Franken’s Resignation Is Deeply Unfair
As the senator is expected to officially resign Tuesday, many Minnesotans don’t believe he should have stepped down—and he never got a fair process with the harassment allegations.
<snip>

https://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/story/news/politics/2017/12/18/leahy-regrets-calling-franken-resign/962194001/
Leahy regrets calling for Franken to resign
Sen. Patrick Leahy now says he was too hasty in calling for Sen. Al Franken to resign following allegations of sexual harassment.
The senior Vermont senator said Monday that his fellow Democrat should have been allowed to go through an ethics investigation.
<snip>

https://www.salon.com/2017/12/19/democratic-senators-ask-al-franken-to-reconsider-his-resignation/
Some Democratic Senators want Al Franken to reconsider his resignation.
Democratic Senators are torn on whether Franken’s quick ouster was the right move.
<snip>

https://newrepublic.com/article/146255/backlash
Backlash: The implications of sending Al Franken packing are starting to become clear on Capitol Hill. And they are troubling.
<snip>
Members of Congress have been speaking uneasily among themselves ever since Al Franken was drummed out of the Senate by many of his Democratic colleagues in early December. Nobody wants to talk about it on the record, but politicians in both parties and in both chambers remain disturbed by how Franken was dealt with by some of his Senate colleagues. In particular, a number of Senate Democrats were bothered by how Franken was treated, as was a large but unmeasurable portion of citizens. And some of the unfortunate implications are already becoming clear.

The whole thing happened with startling speed—no deliberations, no process, and no pause for thought, it seemed. The main actors against him got increasingly worked up—and they struck at the first opportunity. The entire episode, from when the first complaint about Franken was aired to when he announced unhappily that he’d leave the Senate, took three weeks; his self-appointed prosecutors turned on a dime, at first supporting and then throwing process (consideration by the Senate ethics committee) to the wind. There wasn’t even a meeting of the party caucus to deliberate and discuss. (Male Democratic senators with misgivings didn’t want to get in the way of the women.) A group of Democratic women senators got up a head of steam; its ringleader, Senator Kirsten Gillibrand of New York, declared, a doctrine of “zero tolerance.” “Enough is enough!” became not just an expression of exasperation but a policy.

With this precedent members of Congress (and others as well) became vulnerable to the acts of people not of good will. What is the protection against someone or several people deciding to gang up on a member of Congress by inventing incidents?
<snip>

VOX

(22,976 posts)
133. Jesus H. Christ, what's he gonna do, take on fellow Democrats AND the right wing ALONE?
Sat Aug 4, 2018, 09:06 PM
Aug 2018

He was a politician, and to paraphrase John Lennon, "Love [or being a politician] means saying you're sorry every fifteen minutes." That he didn't have solid backing from fellow Democrats (and Bernie), and that they tossed him to the wolves on a purity basis, what's he supposed to do? Say he "grabbed 'em by the pussy"? (And that didn't hurt the Orange Asshole one bit, as his fellow Republicans circled the wagons around their cult-figurehead, much to our frustration. Hell, even being a total Putin-tool doesn't get them to turn against him.)

And as a politician, he had to ruffle down the feathers of his constituents, probably figuring (erroneously) that he'd soon have his day in court with an ethics inquiry.

But it's not like he was, or is, down on his hands and knees, begging forgiveness:
http://time.com/5057462/al-franken-resignation-sorry/
“I of all people,” Franken said on the Senate floor, “am aware that there is some irony in the fact that I am leaving while a man who has bragged on tape about his history of sexual assault sits in the Oval Office, and a man who has repeatedly preyed on young girls' campaigns for the Senate with the full support of his party.”
<snip>

https://www.vox.com/2018/5/21/17352230/al-franken-accusations-resignation-democrats-leann-tweeden-kirsten-gillibrand
<snip>
Franken didn’t get his day in front of the Ethics Committee
When Franken admitted the Tweeden photo was real, he apologized and called for an ethics investigation into his own behavior. When other women came forward with similar accounts of being groped during a photo, he apologized repeatedly but couldn’t seem to remember whether he did the thing the woman claimed.

Since the matter wasn’t settled, progressives argue, Franken deserved a full investigation before Democrats determined his fate. The Ethics Committee started an initial inquiry, but they never completed their work because Franken agreed to leave before they could.

In hindsight, a set of Democrats felt hustled. Gillibrand, who led the charge against Franken, is widely assumed to be setting up a run for the presidency in 2020. She forced her colleagues’ hands in a deft public maneuver that made it hard for them not to go along with her. Some Democrats have since name-checked her with a tinge of resentment. Other liberals openly called her the type of names aggressive women who want to run for president get called. Michael Tomasky at the Daily Beast compared her to the Queen of Hearts, Lewis Carroll’s unhinged monarch who screams, “Off with their heads!”

Even a number of senators who pressured Franken to leave have regrets. Maybe they were too hasty. “I think we acted prematurely, before we had all the facts,” an anonymous senator told Politico. “In retrospect, I think we acted too fast.”
<snip>
- - - - - - -
And with that, I am DONE with the subject of Al Franken. Peace.

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
139. He apologized several times
Sat Aug 4, 2018, 09:55 PM
Aug 2018

before any said a word against him. Why didn’t he fight back instead? Maybe if he did more Dems would have stuck him.

VOX

(22,976 posts)
142. You just keep playing the same note, in this and other threads. DONE.
Sun Aug 5, 2018, 05:13 AM
Aug 2018

"Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?" "Harris, Warren and Sanders?"

VOX

(22,976 posts)
149. No, that's not what you're doing. You are fomenting discord and ill-will with a fellow DUer.
Sun Aug 5, 2018, 06:58 PM
Aug 2018

I clearly stated that I was through with this pointless back-and-forth three posts ago. You have your "facts," and I have mine, which I have documented with numerous published sources. But neither of us is going to convince the other of anything.

So let's simply agree to disagree, and save our powder for Republicans, proto-nazis, Russian trolls, Trumpists, and the like.



 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
151. Speak for yourself
Mon Aug 6, 2018, 07:19 AM
Aug 2018

I’m just bringing up the verifiable facts of the matter. Franken apologized several times and didn’t fight back long before any other Democrat said a word against him. That is a fact. And there were over 30 Senators who called for him to resign including Harris, Warren and Sanders. Again a fact. As progressives we should embrace facts even those that are uncomfortable for us to acknowledge.

tavernier

(12,392 posts)
146. Great post!
Sun Aug 5, 2018, 08:18 AM
Aug 2018

Very clearly explains why most of us feel the way we do about how the Franken thing was handled. Sadly it tarnished a number of Democrats in all of our eyes. I didn’t know much about KG, but Sanders and Warren really disappointed me when they were part of stirring the tar and plucking the feathers.

VOX

(22,976 posts)
147. Thank you!
Sun Aug 5, 2018, 06:24 PM
Aug 2018

As you can see, I'm being trolled like crazy for my statement. So I genuinely appreciate your back-up!

Response to oberliner (Original post)

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
77. Oh, snap!
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 04:33 PM
Aug 2018

Be careful, though. As the midterm election is drawing near, there's a new group posting here again. A lot of threads got hidden the last time, a couple of years ago. Exercise due caution.

Crunchy Frog

(26,587 posts)
79. Just taking one for the team if it gets deleted.
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 04:39 PM
Aug 2018

Anyway, I try not to get involved in primary fights. I do have strong feelings about Franken, though.

brooklynite

(94,591 posts)
85. As opposed to the monthly "I miss Al Franken" posts?
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 04:49 PM
Aug 2018

Gillibrand is a sitting US Senator. Articles about her are relevant for discussion.

brooklynite

(94,591 posts)
116. Actually, I have no contact with Gillibrand at all...
Sat Aug 4, 2018, 10:55 AM
Aug 2018

She doesn't need my help to safely get re-elected in New York.

BannonsLiver

(16,396 posts)
123. Don't forget the rubbing of noses
Sat Aug 4, 2018, 01:00 PM
Aug 2018

In the amount of money donated each cycle. That’s always my personal fave.

brooklynite

(94,591 posts)
131. I see, you'd prefer to have our candidates underfunded?
Sat Aug 4, 2018, 08:42 PM
Aug 2018

Just an observation - before the Bernie or Bust folks decamped to JPR, they could spoon out MUSCH better insults.

BannonsLiver

(16,396 posts)
109. They're also fishing OPs
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 11:02 PM
Aug 2018

Every time they are posted with the intent (we can only assume) of winning converts for KG and it ends up being the same rejection of her every single time. It’s like Charlie Brown and Lucy with the football at this point.

OilemFirchen

(7,143 posts)
81. What does "Breaking Big" mean in the context of this article?
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 04:43 PM
Aug 2018

Can it break bigger? Or is it already broken?

CentralMass

(15,265 posts)
86. She does not appear on my list of candidates that I would vote for in the primary
Fri Aug 3, 2018, 04:52 PM
Aug 2018

Last edited Fri Aug 3, 2018, 05:59 PM - Edit history (1)

jcgoldie

(11,631 posts)
125. I agree
Sat Aug 4, 2018, 01:32 PM
Aug 2018

No thanks to Gillibrand too conservative and spearheading the charge against Franken was ridiculous. Moreover its a little confusing what she actually stands for she had 100% rating from the NRA and took a hardline on immigration in the house then pretty much reversed all of that when she ran for Senate. There are MUCH better options than Gillibrand.

KPN

(15,646 posts)
126. KG won't get my vote during the primary.
Sat Aug 4, 2018, 01:59 PM
Aug 2018

After she led the Dem reaction to the GOPs smear campaign against perhaps our most effective voice (all for self gain it seems), no way. I used to like her a lot, but she really lost my trust on that one big time.

Horse with no Name

(33,956 posts)
134. She's not going to be my first, second or third choice
Sat Aug 4, 2018, 09:20 PM
Aug 2018

After her attack on Franken.
That being said, I would hold my nose and vote for her if she is the last one standing.
But. As a woman, she doesn’t speak for me.

Horse with no Name

(33,956 posts)
136. Not interested in watching KG propaganda
Sat Aug 4, 2018, 09:30 PM
Aug 2018

I’m a pretty firm believer when someone shows you what they are...you believe them.
I don’t need her to tell me what she wants me to think of her.
My opinion of her is rock solid.

Horse with no Name

(33,956 posts)
138. So is Manchin. Luckily neither need my vote.
Sat Aug 4, 2018, 09:39 PM
Aug 2018

I only hope that in her aspirations for higher office that she doesn’t take out any more of the Democrats I support.
We have some potentially great candidates out there.
IMHO, she isn’t one of them.

Ligyron

(7,633 posts)
141. Too anxious to be seen as holding the moral high ground during the Roy Moore debacle
Sat Aug 4, 2018, 10:23 PM
Aug 2018

the dems threw Al Franken to the wolves. But it was Kirsten G. who got the ball rolling. For that, she'll never make it out of a primary.

 

StuckInTexas

(66 posts)
154. Perhaps
Mon Aug 6, 2018, 06:47 PM
Aug 2018

The OP is a campaign staffer and they're taking the temperature of a 2020 run? All kidding aside, I don't know if anyone other than the OP knows the point of this post. KG is permanently damaged goods though. She has multiple instances now of throwing allies under the bus in attempts to further her career. She is done as a national candidate.

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