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Recursion

(56,582 posts)
Thu Aug 2, 2018, 06:43 PM Aug 2018

So, doesn't every Catholic now have a legal right not to cooperate with the prison system?

Pope Francis has now decreed that capital punishment is "absolutely inadmissable", as a doctrinal question. No faithful Catholic can support it anymore.

I wonder if the GOP has really thought through what these "religious freedom" laws will mean, in situations like these.

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So, doesn't every Catholic now have a legal right not to cooperate with the prison system? (Original Post) Recursion Aug 2018 OP
opens the door to jury nullification lapfog_1 Aug 2018 #1
How is someone going to 'insist' upon that? B2G Aug 2018 #6
Insist was too strong a word lapfog_1 Aug 2018 #7
That's not the way it works. B2G Aug 2018 #8
they can't insist and in point of fact if a juror states s/he is against the death penalty dsc Aug 2018 #10
Thought it through? They haven't thought, really, at all gratuitous Aug 2018 #2
Yes , they've thought it through, and it's simple really marylandblue Aug 2018 #3
Ain't that the damn truth (nt) Recursion Aug 2018 #4
I actually volunteer with the NETWORK Lobby (aka Nuns on a Bus), lapucelle Aug 2018 #5
I love that. Thank you so much Recursion Aug 2018 #9

lapfog_1

(29,218 posts)
1. opens the door to jury nullification
Thu Aug 2, 2018, 06:47 PM
Aug 2018

commit a murder and insist on getting a catholic on the jury and the prosecutor to charge with a death penalty outcome.

 

B2G

(9,766 posts)
6. How is someone going to 'insist' upon that?
Thu Aug 2, 2018, 07:32 PM
Aug 2018

I'm sure it will he asked during the jury interview process, but a defendant doesn't get to say the jury must consist of people of a political religious persuasion.

And lawyers already ask about opinions on the death penalty during voir dire.

lapfog_1

(29,218 posts)
7. Insist was too strong a word
Thu Aug 2, 2018, 07:43 PM
Aug 2018

But the defense lawyers would be remiss if they didn't ask enough questions to ensure that at least one catholic is seated.

Of course, it would be a gamble... you might get the odd catholic who doesn't follow church cannon.

 

B2G

(9,766 posts)
8. That's not the way it works.
Thu Aug 2, 2018, 07:52 PM
Aug 2018

For a trial where the death penalty is an option upon conviction, that's already a prime topic during jury selection. A prosecutor would never allow a juror to be seated if they couldn't render that verdict.

dsc

(52,166 posts)
10. they can't insist and in point of fact if a juror states s/he is against the death penalty
Thu Aug 2, 2018, 08:46 PM
Aug 2018

then s/he can't be seated. What will be interesting is if Catholic jurors state that they can vote for the death penalty but prosecutors start using their challenges to eliminate Catholics. I have no idea how courts will react to that.

gratuitous

(82,849 posts)
2. Thought it through? They haven't thought, really, at all
Thu Aug 2, 2018, 06:48 PM
Aug 2018

The whole thing is a pander to their poor, oppressed, put-upon fans who believe they're under constant and existential attack from their fellow citizens. The reality is infinitely worse: We don't think about them very much, if at all. The only time their retrograde philosophy breaks the surface is when they're perpetrating some atrocity and blaming God for them having to be such flaming jerks.

But it might be interesting to see what effect the Pope's statement has on the Supreme Court, which is chock full of Catholics.

marylandblue

(12,344 posts)
3. Yes , they've thought it through, and it's simple really
Thu Aug 2, 2018, 07:08 PM
Aug 2018

Religious freedom ends at your exit from the uterus.

lapucelle

(18,303 posts)
5. I actually volunteer with the NETWORK Lobby (aka Nuns on a Bus),
Thu Aug 2, 2018, 07:27 PM
Aug 2018

and we've called (generally Republican) Catholic legislators en masse (they love to start with Paul Ryan) to remind them that if they are pro-death penalty, they cannot claim to be "pro-life"; they are, in fact, merely "anti-abortion".

We made calls every Wednesday in Lent in 2017 (starting with Paul Ryan on Ash Wednesday) to shame Catholics in office into walking the walk concerning health care and this year to shame them concerning immigration policy.

I've never been asked by the Sisters to call over abortion or federal or Supreme Court appointments. My guess would be that they vote D down the line. (It's the priests who seem to be generally Republican.)

Nuns are amazingly radical, and this Pope seems to be paying attention.

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