What Happens If Sikhs Start Open-Carrying?

[Paladin]

Mull this over, resident DU Gun Enthusiasts: What if, in reaction to the latest mass murder involving firearms, we start seeing Sikhs sporting pistols and assault-style weapons in plain view? What are subhuman types like Michele Bachman and Ted Nugent going to say about a bunch of olive-skinned, turban and veil wearing people---people who look a lot like Muslims, to the untrained eye---exercising their precious Second Amendment rights? How enthusiastic do you think the guys at the shooting range are going to be if something like that happens? Would these armed-and-ready Sikhs be risking life and limb by taking the sort of action that DU Gun Enthusiasts have been advocating for years?

Extra points for honest answers........

[cthulu2016]

1. More flame-bait than an invitation to discussion

[UnrepentantLiberal]

66. No it isn't.

It's a legitimate question.

[ret5hd]

2. They would probably have the same experience as the Black Panthers...

they would be killed, one or two at a time, by the cops.

[socialist_n_TN]

60. Great minds and all. That was my first thought........

People of color open carrying rifles and shotguns has already happened. And the cops killed them. Or a lot of them anyway.

[Zalatix]

61. And infiltrated by the FBI, no less.

[sinkingfeeling]

3. The women do not wear veils. Most dress in either Western or Indian styles.

[jberryhill]

4. They are already required to carry a weapon, btw

Every one of the Sikhs who was shot, was carrying a knife.

[spin]

18. Knifes are extremely effective at close range ...

but not worth anything at a distance.

Had just one of the members of the church been legally carrying a firearm he might have been able to stop the shooter. Hard to say.

[nichomachus]

33. And if one less person in the building had had a gun

There would not have been a massacre.

[spin]

39. The shooter might have just used gasoline or explosives ...

and killed far more people.

[2on2u]

54. I'd be almost as scared if they started driving with open containers. n/t

[Hoyt]

37. No, it's easy to say. It would not have helped, and more guns in society won't help either.

[spin]

41. I understand your opposition to victim rights laws ...

and you have every right to that opinion as misguided and possibly foolish as it is.

[Missycim]

42. well if only

they had a bike tire or magical can of beans or something

[ProdigalJunkMail]

48. are you aware that most of the knives you mention

are in many cases ceremonial and some cannot even be withdrawn from the sheath?

sP

[jberryhill]

49. Yes

But I had been waiting for the kneejerk "if they had been armed" thing.

I am familiar with the kirpan.

It's just that the one other thing for which Sikhs regularly make the news are issues that arise from carrying one.

[Edweird]

57. It's ceremonial not an actual fighting knife.

[jberryhill]

59. Just like my response

[Egalitarian Thug]

65. Touche.

[The Straight Story]

5. Like I said elsewhere - only rich white men in power/govt should be trusted with guns

Because me, you, and other citizens are not to be trusted. Someday folks will get their wish and before you know it all our rights we have now will be taken away so that we don't make mistakes like having abortions, smoking in bars, eating at olive gardens, having pit bulls as pets, etc.

We now see each other as the enemy and the people in power who purchased their office we see as our saviors from one another.

We need a thread "If DU ran America":

No more guns. Some words would be banned. Smoking would be banned (yes, even at home in case a neighbor might smell it). We would only be allowed to have bikes that were made in a way that did not involve coal or gasoline (or even wind mills since a bird might die). Cows would roam free and we would all be smoking pot and eating vegetables we had to grow ourselves (no doritos, the plant closed down because it's carbon footprint was too high). Churches would be taxed and any religious symbols that can be seen from a public highway would have to be covered so as not to scare anyone.

Fast food places would be shut down and women would not be allowed to have as many kids as they want. We would all have health care but if you are overweight you are reported by your doctor and sent to counseling. Football would be banned because people get hurt playing it (trust us, we know best for you) and that affects the cost of health care (however - if you are rich and can pay for your own injuries you will be allowed to play).

All Steve Irwin re-runs would be off the air and a new show called 'Dancing with the stars on graves' would be a national hit......

Got to make fun of ourselves sometimes....

[HappyMe]

8. +1

That's funny, but you did hit the nail right on the head.

[Douglas Carpenter]

13. exactly - if Page or Holmes had only a screw driver or knife they would have killed just as many

people - guns had nothing to do with it,

[The Straight Story]

14. they could create poisons from household chemicals

or explosives from fertilizers and such. Remove one method and someone will come up with another.

The problems of killing others dates to 6000 years ago with cain and abel (yes, I kid about the 6k years...)

Maybe we should do something that takes work and not laws and solve the issues leading people to do these things.

But it has always been easier to try to control and legislate.

[Douglas Carpenter]

16. you're right - guns are not even a part of the equation

In fact the more we all have the less violence there will be

[The Straight Story]

17. Guns don't affect whether or not there is violence

People have proven that since forever.

We need to shift focus from material items we humans can manipulate and focus on causes (mental illness, alcohol, hate, etc).

Controlling the tool has not stopped the action through all of history, and it never will.

[Douglas Carpenter]

20. exactl!! the availability of guns have no affect whatsoever on violence

What I resent most is the way second amendment rights are denied to kids in our public schools. If children are not raised with the ability to protect this unalienable right - what kind tyranny are we living under? Armed children will never be slaves!

[friendly_iconoclast]

50. True. That's why Chicago has twice the murder rate of Houston, the nearest city in size...

[The Straight Story]

63. Free speech, abortion, voting rights, etc

How do those map to children?

Nice try, but rights are rights. Again, maybe you only want those rights to be available to a few, select, rich folks.

Me I tend to like freedom and tend to rebel against people who want to try and control me and others and I refuse to buy into the whole idea that everyone around me is the boogeyman or a terrorist.

[Douglas Carpenter]

64. no reason why children should be denied this human right to be armed either. That will put a stop to

Last edited Tue Aug 7, 2012, 12:11 PM - Edit history (1)

bullying and child abuse. Besides there are no end to the ways in which children are already attacking each other; scissors, pens, pencils, poisons and everything else. Children who are prone to homicide already find plenty of other ways to do it. Guns won't make it any worse. They will just offer more protection for weak and powerless children. With all that goes on these days, how could ANY responsible parent even think of sending their children to school unarmed? The more guns the better. That is why America has a far, far lower homicide rate and is a far more socially just society than those tyrannies like Canada, France, the UK or Sweden.

[mysuzuki2]

32. this is of course why the militaries of many countries are giving

up arming their soldiers with firearms and giving them knives and swords instead. Because they are just as deadly. My apologies in advance if your post was meant as sarcasm.

[spin]

21. While there is some truth to your post ...

many here support individual liberties and the right to make decisions in their own life some of which might be foolish.

That's what makes this forum interesting.

[bongbong]

24. True!

> omeday folks will get their wish and before you know it all our rights we have now will be taken away

YES! I was waiting for this idea to be posted!

It's just like when they introduced speed limits of 25 in cities, and pretty soon that was the maximum speed everywhere. I long for the days when I could drive 55 on the interstate.

[The Straight Story]

44. Well in the case you presented, how about this

There is already a law that says you cannot use guns to harm others.

So there is a 'speed limit' already in place.

Some want to ban the car though so folks cannot go over the speed limit. No cars, no speeders.

[tblue]

28. I am not rich, white, a man, or in power and I don't own a gun.

Dang. Maybe I'm in the wrong country.

[Trunk Monkey]

30. smoking pot and eating vegetables do NOT go together just sayin' NT

[spin]

43. The King of New York City, Mayor Bloomburg agrees with you. (n/t)

[canEHdian]

67. Self-Mockery doesn't come easily to Rs-Holes

And, yes, that should be pronounced "arseholes," which most of your current Republicans clearly are!

[-..__...]

6. They're already allowed to "open carry" Kirpans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirpan#United_States_of_America

If they (or anyone else), choose to open carry a firearm... I wouldn't have a problem with that.

Bachman and/or Nugent?

How would I know or even fucking care?

[Dokkie]

9. +1000

[slampoet]

31. BINGO!! stole my post and i'm glad .

[Neutralator]

52. It is not a real weapon

Kirpan is usually a small ceremonial dagger. Not all sikhs carry it. Only the most pious and religious positive sikhs carry. It may not a real weapon with intention of killing someone. It would take a lot for a man to kill someone with it.

[eShirl]

7. Sikhs are already armed.

Just not with a gun.

[Dokkie]

10. I dont know how many people saw 60 minutes last night

Last edited Mon Aug 6, 2012, 03:53 PM - Edit history (1)

But just like the Oak Creek incident, sometimes you just need to carry a weapon to protect yourself from a bunch of racist thugs. Wait for the police and you end up dead

[Spitfire of ATJ]

26. "sometimes you just need to carry a weapon to protect yourself from a bunch of racist thugs"

Ya wanna know what's really funny? When I was growing up there were people in Europe who saw our Westerns and thought America still had Indian raids. Some thought we had gangsters in the cities like Jimmy Cagney even into the 60s.

Now it seems the gun nuts are the ones who think like that,....even WANT it.

[kelly1mm]

11. Veils??? WTF are you talking about? Sikhs don't wear veils regularly. The only time I saw a Sikh

woman wearing a veil is at a wedding I attended in Amritsar.

As for your question about what a bunch of "subhuman types" (actually that phrase bothers me A LOT - a bit to ubermench sounding to me) think? Could not care less.

If Sikhs want to open carry that is fine by me.

[ileus]

12. Maybe OC would catch on...

As a gun owner, I wouldn't be more pleased than to see fellow citizens taking advantage of the right to OC.


As for me and my family we welcome anyone who desires to legally carry (OC or CC) to do so. There's always room for progress when it comes to empowering the 99%.

[Fumesucker]

19. You do know that Dodge City back in the day had gun control, right?

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/09/02/opinion/l-dodge-city-believed-in-strict-gun-control-237490.html

You compare the wanton death by gunfire in New York City to the heyday of Dodge City, Kan. (column, Aug. 6). It is important to point out that Dodge City's cornerstone laws dealt with gun control.

The reputation of Dodge as a hell on earth with an overflowing Boot Hill dated from its time as the rowdy end of the track of the westward-building Santa Fe railroad. When things got out of hand, a city government was organized. Laws were drawn up banning livestock on the sidewalks; horses above the ground floor; public drunkenness and disorderly conduct; the carrying of guns within the town limits (all who entered had to place their weapons on pegs provided in most public places), and the discharge of firearms within the city limits except on such holidays as the Fourth of July and New Year's Day.

The gun toter was subject to being shot on sight by the town police. Strict gun control was vital for public safety. During the cattle boom of the 1870's and 80's, Dodge was the largest cattle market in the world. Cattle were brought up the trail from Texas to be loaded onto trains or driven north. The cowboys who drove the cattle had been on the trail for two or three months. They were paid their back salary and, as the movies would you have believe, they instantly spent it on whisky, women and cards.

The businessmen of Dodge understood the potential for violence in a town full of drunken cowboys who had just blown three months wages, Rebs in a Yankee town. This is why there had to be gun-control laws. Men like Wyatt Earp, Jim and Ed Masterson, Bill Tilgman and Mysterious Dave Mather had a reputation, and their presence on the police force made these laws stick.

[rad51]

68. what does that have to do with anything today?

I open carry in KS all the time.

[CBGLuthier]

38. You want to live in a world where everyone straps a gun on?

I don't. That is why we have a problem.

Seriously OC is the stupidest most regressive immature fucking concept ever. Fucking cowboy wannabees.

[Ikonoklast]

47. Well, you never know when bears might jump out and eat you.

Bears.

They're everywhere.

Be afraid.

[Reasonable_Argument]

56. Well

I generally prefer concealed to open carry because it's less hassle but I really wouldn't care if everyone started to do it. Then again, I don't go into a state of shock if I see someone with a weapon like some here do. My first reaction is normally more along the lines of, "huh, wonder what that cost"?

[spin]

15. In my experience at the ranges I shot at in the Tampa Bay area ...

we welcomed all shooters despite race, gender, sexual orientation or religious affiliation.

I personally have introduced Blacks and Hispanics to the shooting sports and was more than willing to help anyone improve their shooting if they expressed interest.

If an individual with a turban had arrived at the ranges I shot at, I would have had absolutely no problem helping him become a better shooter.

I also firmly support "Shall Issue" concealed carry as is the law in Florida. Any honest citizen who meets certain reasonable requirements is granted a license to carry in Florida. The law is unbiased and color blind.

Of course I can only speak for the ranges that I personally attended.

That's an honest answer. Do I get extra points?

Edited to add:

One time a member of a militia showed up at the range and made some comments that other members and I felt were inappropriate. We largely ignored him and made him feel uncomfortable. He never returned.

[RZM]

22. Most gun enthusiasts wouldn't have a problem with Sikhs or anybody else carrying a gun

I'm not a gun owner myself and I rarely wade into gun discussions here. But this OP seems to be barking up the wrong tree.

I'm sure there are many Sikhs who are already carrying. I'd guess that you could find a gun behind the counter at plenty of businesses run by Sikh families.

Sikh culture is quite martial and they are already required to carry knives anyway.

If anybody sought Ted Nugent's reaction to this shooting, he would almost certainly say that the people in that temple had every right to shoot down that nutcase who attacked them.

[HappyMe]

25. I'm sure many of them do carry.

So what?

I'm sure that some go to gun ranges -- again, so what?


Who gives a crap what those two clowns think?

[hack89]

27. What if Hispanics like Zimmerman start carrying? Oh wait... nt

[aikoaiko]

29. The racist and prejudiced wouldn't like it at all, I'm sure, but tough shit for them.

Its their civil liberty too. And those of us who support the 2nd Amendment as a true civil liberty would be fine with it.

And no, they wouldn't be risking life or limb any more than they do already by exercising their first amendment rights to assemble and practice their religion.

[Ikonoklast]

34. These people exercising their 2nd Amendment rights got Gov. Reagan to sign legislation against them

in one quick hurry.

St. Ronnie made Open Carry illegal in California.





And I would suspect many supporters of both the 2nd and Ronald Reagan still have no problem with that.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

46. Man, that brings back memories --

American collectively shit Her britches when the "brown" men and woman started packing.

[Ganja Ninja]

35. "What are subhuman types like Michele Bachman and Ted Nugent going to say"

Who the fuck cares? And since when did "DU gun enthusiasts" start advocating open carry of assault weapons?

[MineralMan]

36. Sikh Women Do Not Wear Veils

From http://realsikhism.com/index.php?subaction=showfull&id=1248209393&ucat=7

Q: What is the appropriate head covering for Sikh women?


A: The most common head covering for Sikh women is the chunni. Sikh women also wear round turban but mostly wear a chunni. The Sikh girl in the picture at right is wearing a white turban covered by a black chunni. Some Sikh women wear both, while some wear either turban or chunni. The choice is up to the individual.

You can see the chunni worn by the Sikh girls at the bottom left of the picture below:

[Aerows]

40. They will

help the homeless eat at gunpoint to their own heads, and make followers help build shelters for them. That's about as violent as Sikh's have ever gotten. They stand up for egalitarian causes, and we need people doing it here, but Sikh's do it so peacefully, we won't get the full effect.

[jeff47]

45. If they did, Congress would pass gun control legislation in about 20 minutes. (nt)

[zbdent]

51. They would be hunted down as terrorists ...

[RKP5637]

53. Probably so ... White People = Patriots. Brown-colored People = Terrorists. That's the

logic the RW uses.

[braddy]

55. Who says American Sikhs don't own guns, or get CCLs, or hunt, or anything else like other people?

For all I know Sikhs fish, go boating, play sports and all kinds of regular stuff.

[onehandle]

58. Cue our Rightists to resist their true feelings. It would blow their 'covers.' nt

[friendly_iconoclast]

62. "our Rightists"? You need a better grade of *this* stuff for your chapeaus...