Simple question: Is anybody above the rule of law in our country?

[kentuck]

I think the sooner the Court can decide that, the better for all of us.

Which direction is this investigation going?

Are they going to indict and convict Donald Trump?

If Trump is not found guilty of anything, except being an asshole, then has the rule of law worked for us?

It does seem to me that it is being severely challenged.

[CanonRay]

1. Years back I would have shouted "No".

Now I'll just say we'll see....

[Gothmog]

2. No

Link to tweet

[Gothmog]

3. From Prof. Tribe

Link to tweet

[kentuck]

5. And some say Commander in Chief only during time of war?

Commander in Chief Powers. Article II Section 2 of the U.S. Constitution, the Commander in Chief clause, states that "[t]he President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States."

From our Constitution:

[former9thward]

13. The military is always in the service of the U.S.

Nothing to do with war and that is not mentioned in your quote. That section was written when the U.S. had no regular standing army. We do now.

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

10. Hmm. A rambling.

The military made up of our COUNTRYmen and women. We are Countrymen at birth by being Americans as a "superceding condition" to then joining the military if you can qualify, when you grow up. Meaning by definition...they made it 18 years under a govt and institutions that kept him alive on some level to be able to enlist. We as nation of individuals collectively have bought in on that person. We have made a social investment almost 2 decades long at this point.
I say this only to illustrate one of many ways I hope a soldier could rationalize not doing something a madman is telling them to do. Especially here at home. I mean, if a soldier were faced with making a decision, would they shoot somebodies neighbor, or mom on behalf of dt? Where do we think the country stands on stuff like that? What IS the reality in a soldiers mind, when the order is to shoot on protesting Americans that are lawfully there as the the Loyal Opposition? Anyone here in the military who would know the pulse of how that's going over in the ranks?
We have inalienable rights. It's on our birth certificate...(imagine the overlay of the constitution w your birth certificate in Americas boundries etc......heh heh). That's one of thousands of reason why it means something to be Born In The USA...we are bound to each other to support and encourage and defend each other to develop a better nation each time a generation hands it to the next.
If you follow all this madness to it's final conclusion a this rate, as sons and daughters of this country, we will be forced to act. What in the world would that even look like?
At this pace, inertia is going to make this a runaway chain reaction that we can't stop.
When do we as Americans know that it's time to defend the Country and the idea behind the Statue of liberty and everything else we hold so true? Especially when every days madness in Washington seems like it alone would've stopped every other president in their tracks. Are we being duped right now? And if we are, how do we collectively wake up?
Congress is complicit not on principle...but something(s) else. That's very disturbing. Myself I think it's that they knew the NRA was giving Russian money for starters. They took it knowingly and Paul Ryan confirmed the shady nature at a gop conference "In the catskills" or some such place. They have a hidden camera video of it. And they didn't care bc it was all about money and winning from a dying party. and achieving their goals at any costs...namely cheating in elections. Screw what they claim to have been. Purist, Christlike, fair. Compassionate and thoughtful and enlightened bc they were the "sworn christian patriots of good". (by their own description the last 25 years.) The moral majority etc.
They lied. And there's no reason to believe they're going to stop. gop.
We are being lulled in a unusually, in a reckless manner.
i dunno tho. Just rambling. sigh.

[Hortensis]

16. Good quotes. For the president to be above the law

would be antithetical to representative democracy. As a prominent constitutional expert said, it would mean this was not the nation we thought we had.

Something not mentioned is how that would affect the balance of powers. We worry these days about the SCOTUS conservatives' commitment to principles rather than faction, a shocking thing in itself, but it still seems unlikely SCOTUS would rule that the president could act beyond its authority to check.

Thanks, Former9thward. Always learning something.

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

4. Hmm

"All men are created equal." "Inalienable Rights" "THESE TRUTHS WE HOLD TO BE SELF EVIDENT"

[Gothmog]

6. Prof. Tribe cites this analysis

Link to tweet

[kentuck]

7. It should never have to go before a judge to decide.

It should be a given. No man is above the law. It is disturbing, to say the least, that we are even debating it.

[Gothmog]

8. From Steve Schmidt

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[bluestarone]

9. NO i don't think

The supreme court wants the President of the U.S.A. to EVER have that kind of power!! If so then the next president (Democrat) will ALSO have that unlimited power!!!!!

[demosincebirth]

11. I'd say yes...if you have lotsa money and good lawyers

[Solly Mack]

12. Evidence would suggest that yes, there are those who are above the law.

People can view the Bush presidency through whatever jacked up haze they feel the need to but the man is a war criminal.

More to the point - a war criminal who was never held accountable for his crimes against humanity.

And he wasn't the only one that got away with it either.

The office of president isn't so sacred that a president won't commit crimes - so why is it too sacred to prosecute and imprison a president?

I don't mythologize (as in create or promote an exaggerated or idealized image of) the office of the presidency.

Presidents are not placed into office through some divine right bullshit. A citizen is elected - a citizen. One who is just as obligated as the next to obey the laws, and one who does not deserve special treatment when they do break the law.

All this chosen by god sickness is one of the things that allow atrocities to be committed.

Bush said god chose him to lead America. But I'll wager few remember that. Don't have to believe me - look it up.

Same is being said about Trump.

[smirkymonkey]

14. So far, the answer appears to be "yes".

As long as the spineless republicans in congress refuse to do anything about this loose cannon of a president, he seems to be above the law.

[Cha]

15. Rep Adam Schiff says No..

Link to tweet

[Gothmog]

17. No, Trump can't pardon himself. The Constitution tells us so.

From Prof. Tribe and others https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/no-trump-cant-pardon-himself-the-constitution-tells-us-so/2017/07/21/f3445d74-6e49-11e7-b9e2-2056e768a7e5_story.html?utm_term=.a066d8b411f4

Can a president pardon himself? Four days before Richard Nixon resigned, his own Justice Department’s Office of Legal Counsel opined no, citing “the fundamental rule that no one may be a judge in his own case.” We agree.

The Justice Department was right that guidance could be found in the enduring principles that no one can be both the judge and the defendant in the same matter, and that no one is above the law.

The Constitution specifically bars the president from using the pardon power to prevent his own impeachment and removal. It adds that any official removed through impeachment remains fully subject to criminal prosecution. That provision would make no sense if the president could pardon himself.

The pardon provision of the Constitution is there to enable the president to act essentially in the role of a judge of another person’s criminal case, and to intervene on behalf of the defendant when the president determines that would be equitable. For example, the president might believe the courts made the wrong decision about someone’s guilt or about sentencing; President Barack Obama felt this way about excessive sentences for low-level drug offenses. Or the president might be impressed by the defendant’s subsequent conduct and, using powers far exceeding those of a parole board, might issue a pardon or commutation of sentence.....

President Trump thinks he can do a lot of things just because he is president. He says that the president can act as if he has no conflicts of interest. He says that he can fire the FBI director for any reason he wants (and he admitted to the most outrageous of reasons in interviews and in discussion with the Russian ambassador). In one sense, Trump is right — he can do all of these things, although there will be legal repercussions if he does. Using official powers for corrupt purposes — such as impeding or obstructing an investigation — can constitute a crime.

But there is one thing we know that Trump cannot do — without being a first in all of human history. He cannot pardon himself.