General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhat is the appropriate punishment for Aaron Schlossberg's actions?
Last edited Thu May 17, 2018, 08:46 PM - Edit history (1)
For those who are not following, he is the lawyer who went on a racist rant that went viral.
What do folks think would be the most appropriate consequences for his behavior?
Downtown Hound
(12,618 posts)And I don't mean for a day or a week or a month, I mean life. Don't let him think there will ever be an end to it, because for the people he bashes, there isn't.
SharonAnn
(13,778 posts)Hamlette
(15,412 posts)so anyone who googles his name sees the story in the restaurant.
TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)XRubicon
(2,212 posts)No punishment.
But... people are not compelled to hire him, associate with him or not humiliate him on the internet, etc.
He is self branded now, I think he punished himself.
PJMcK
(22,050 posts)Arkansas Granny
(31,532 posts)brush
(53,871 posts)as the business center in Manhattan where he held office space has terminated their agreement with him.
He's out on his ass.
He exercised his freedom of speech but it caused him swift consequences.
Woohoo!
These racist, sumpremacists think they are so much smarter than their targets but seem to forget about the ubiquity of cell phones.
But their targets don't forget and know how to video their racist ass rants and put them online.
Who's really the smart ones?
XRubicon
(2,212 posts)SeattleVet
(5,479 posts)I would have waited until after the Mariachi band and taco truck had their opportunities to be present; there would have been some very fine media coverage and additional publicity as he seeks out new (Klan? Nazi? White Supremacist?) clients.
The organizers delayed the band and taco truck because they found that some of the deplorables (very fine people, you know) on 4chan were planning to attend with intent to disrupt.
https://upload.democraticunderground.com/100210624296
Snackshack
(2,541 posts)He has every right to be what he is.
Gothmog
(145,567 posts)These incidents will not help
marble falls
(57,246 posts)The right to free speech means no prior restraint. He couldn't be silenced before his speech but well be sanctioned for making unprotected free speech. Think, "Fire!"
Why couldn't he be charged with some sort of harassment/hate speech with his freely made speech threatening to call ICE?
I wouldn't be surprised if the ironically named "Project Veritas" or some cheetolinista of the ilk of the pizza shop/child molesting basement shooter isn't casing that cafe right now.
Its happened before.
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)He publicly berated multiple people for their ethnicity, threatened to call ICE on them, and shoved another man because he thought he was in his way and thought he was foreign.
At the very least, he could be brought up on harassment charges.
hatrack
(59,592 posts)Anon-C
(3,430 posts)... rebuked by his professional associations or licensing bodies. Businesses should terminate their relationship with him.
PSPS
(13,614 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)When you refer to "the bar" generally, as in someone is admitted to "the bar", then it means they are licensed by the relevant authority (generally, the highest court) of that state or court system to practice there.
When someone refers to a "bar association", then they are referring to a professional organization, membership in which has NOTHING to do with being licensed as an attorney.
No, one does not have to be a member of a bar association to practice law. One does need to be admitted to the bar.
It's like the difference between having a license to practice medicine in Alabama, and being a member of the American Medical Association. The AMA doesn't license doctors. It is a professional organization OF doctors.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)jeopardise his license to practice law?
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Are there grounds for a non-frivolous complaint? Ill say yes on that one.
There is something of a general conduct rule. Im on my phone and dont feel like looking up and citing the section.
Would disbarment be on the table? Possibly, but unlikely.
We had a guy in Philadelphia who was something of a curious fellow. Among his various and numerous incidents was a habit he had of whipping out a pistol and threatening drivers who encroached on the crosswalk while he was crossing the street. I mean, this guy pretty much had a hobby of doing that, and claiming self defense.
The more normal course when an attorney exhibits unusual behavior is a requirement for appropriate psychological therapy, and possibly a suspension for a number of months. The guy mentioned above was eventually required to take anger management classes. He became a frequent flyer, and one of his first rodeos is summarized at the top of this report: https://www.pabar.org/pdf/disciplinelm/Disciplineseptoct04.pdf
I should mention that while I have appeared in four or five cases in NY federal courts, I am not admitted in New York. So in terms of general public conduct, I am more directly familiar with the public conduct of attorneys in the greater Philadelphia area. While I am thus not competent to opine on what might be considered ordinary conduct among New York attorneys, I can say on the basis of my limited experience and observation of them that if there were to be sanctions for something as broad as acting like an asshole, this would be a matter of concern to a numerous and substantial portion of the New York bar.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Some attorneys practically relish the fight of a disciplinary process as they do other litigation.
As the various clips of this guy indicate, he is an asshole for all occasions, which he would characterize as expressing his opinions and beliefs. He behaves like a xenophobic dick, but the party he appears to have principally harmed in any tangible sense is himself.
Consider that Rudy Giuliani is a member in good standing, for example.
Response to jberryhill (Reply #82)
NCTraveler This message was self-deleted by its author.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)A complaint has been filed. So there is no need to speculate about the result.
What happens when a non-English speaking US citizen walks in his office?
As his website indicates, he is fluent in Spanish, so if they speak Spanish, then one assumes he converses with them. Are you asking whether he can be disbarred over the hypothetical consequences of that happening?
Until this guy, no lawyer in New York ever expressed xenophobic disdain for persons of foreign origin. So, since this sort of behavior has simply never happened before, I guess well see what the disciplinary board makes of it.
riversedge
(70,306 posts)PSPS
(13,614 posts)Gothmog
(145,567 posts)One cannot be licensed without being a member of the state bar in Texas. I will check but I think that NY is the same.
Member of the bar and member of the bar association mean two entirely different things.
I am a member of the Pennsylvania bar. I am not a member of the Pennsylvania Bar Association.
This guy is a member of the bar in NY.
Gothmog
(145,567 posts)Everyone has to be a member of the state bar association to be licensed in Texas. There are separate city or county bar associations that are voluntary. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Bar_of_Texas
The NY is one of 18 states that has a voluntary bar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_State_Bar_Association
The NY courts control attorney discipline http://www.nycourts.gov/attorneys/grievance/ As noted in this article, a complaint has been filed on this lawyer https://www.rawstory.com/2018/05/ny-lawmakers-call-disbarment-lawyer-aaron-schlossberg-racist-attack-workers/
The egregiousness of bold-faced racism, in all its ugliness, must be rejected and replaced with the kindness, solidarity and sense of togetherness that has made this great American experiment in democracy a shining example for all the world to see and admire for over two centuries, they wrote.
We are sending this grievance to say that you cannot engage in xenophobia, bigotry, hate and get away with it. Such behavior should never be tolerated, Espaillat added.
KY_EnviroGuy
(14,494 posts)The IEEE for example, which is a professional electrical engineer's organization, is highly professional in nature. Although they do have monthly meetings, occasional dinners and cookouts, one of their prime purposes is to research and write standards for many aspects of electronics and communications. Members can participate in those committees.
Do bar associations perform similar professional services and do they interact with government to improve the system of justice?
----------
LOL, the discussion triggered my curiosity - what the hell does "bar" mean? For us dummies.....
Bar (legal) - Wikipedia
---
The origin of the term bar is from the barring furniture dividing a medieval European courtroom, similar to the origin of the term bank for the bench-like location of financial transactions in medieval Europe.[citation needed] In the USA, Europe and many other countries referring to the law traditions of Europe, the area in front of the barrage is restricted to participants in the trial: the judge or judges, other court officials, the jury (if any), the lawyers for each party, the parties to the case, and witnesses giving testimony. The area behind the bar is open to the public. This restriction is enforced in nearly all courts. In most courts, the bar is represented by a physical partition: a railing or barrier that serves as a bar.
---
License and certification
The bar may also refer to the qualifying procedure by which a lawyer is licensed to practice law in a given jurisdiction.
Thanks for helping us learn....
Gothmog
(145,567 posts)Most states have mandatory bar associations.
It does not matter in that a complaint has been filed with the appropriate state agency to discipline this idiot
Link to tweet
KY_EnviroGuy
(14,494 posts)the typical function of these bar associations?
From what you implied, it sounds as if this guys punishment for his misbehavior will be directly from the community and his peers. He's also receiving quite a walloping nation-wide on news and social media, for what that's worth.
Thanks.
Gothmog
(145,567 posts)The Bar Association works with the Texas supreme court to regulate the practice of law. The Texas Supreme Court has delegated to the Texas Bar Association and the Board of Law Examiners the responsibility for becoming a lawyer and the regulation of the practice of law. The Board of Law Examiners administers the bar exam in Texas. To take the bar, one has to file a declaration of intent to study law.. I remember having to meet with a member of the committee prior to taking the bar exam. One has to attend an accredited law school and graduate to take the bar. Once one passes the bar exam, they have to be admitted to the bar by swearing in and getting their license to practice law. To maintain the right to practice, one must take the required amount of continuing legal education courses, pay dues to the bar and an occupation tax to the state.
The Bar has a set ethical rules that all attorneys have to comply with. Failure to comply with these rules can result in discipline. The Bar has a division or committee to handle attorney discipline and that committee can suspend or disbar lawyers if they fail to comply with the rules. Each major county has a committee that hears and deals with complaints about lawyers. This committee is composed of senior lawyers selected by the State Bar. NY has an agency that deals with lawyer discipline.
Neither of my two older children had to meet the bar examiners before taking the bar. Now, one only has to file the declaration of intent to study law and then fill out the forms to take the bar exam.
In addition to the state bar, there are voluntary bar associations. Each major city has a local bar association that helps with CLE course. Membership in the local bar associations is not mandatory. There is also the American Bar Association which is voluntary. The ABA used to have great deals on car rentals and CLE. I am also member of a Democratic Lawyers Association that is purely political and we we work with the county party on issues such as voter protection.
Since the Texas Bar is a quasi state agency, it undergoes sunset review with the Texas legislature every ten years. The state legislature is composed of mainly lawyers and so this is an interesting process. The president of the State Bar is elected by the members. There is a board of directors. We just had elections for state bar president and on Friday I voted for a member of the board . We can vote online for these offices. A friend of Juanita Jean just announced that she is running to be state bar president. This is a long process. I will no doubt be asked to help in this effort.
KY_EnviroGuy
(14,494 posts)From your description of Texas' system and those described for other states (from other posts herein), I can see why confusion exists in us non-legal folks over the term "the Bar". I assume in states where the Association does not execute discipline, the courts perform that duty directly, whereas in Texas that duty is delegated. And, I can understand why your State Bar President position is quite powerful and revered.
It's good too, to know that attorneys are required to do CLE and I'm sure it's a constant challenge to keep track of changes in laws and regulations, especially in a complex state like Texas.
Three other questions if would, and then I will quit bugging you:
1. If you need to defend a case in another state, do you have to pass the Bar in that state?
2. Approximately how many hours do you typically spend in CLE each year?
3. How does a judge in a Texas court know that any attorney before him is a valid Bar member?
Thanks again for helping with our Democratic Underground amateur CLE.......
Gothmog
(145,567 posts)Let me try to answer your questions. You asked
1. If you need to defend a case in another state, do you have to pass the Bar in that state?
2. Approximately how many hours do you typically spend in CLE each year?
3. How does a judge in a Texas court know that any attorney before him is a valid Bar member?
1. This is a two part answer.
a. Transaction law. I am a deal attorney. I do deals across the country. So long as I live in Texas, I do not have to be licensed to practice law in any other state. My son is a senior associate at a national firm. He can only spend a certain number of days a year in the New York office without having to withhold for NY state income tax. His firm keeps track of this. My son is considering getting licensed in NY. This is comparatively easy. If I moved to another state, I may have to get licensed in that state. At a prior firm, a senior partner moved to Texas from NY and had to take the Texas bar again. My son has been told that he does not need to take the NY bar to be licensed in NY. My son works on large deals that use NY law and so this may be helpful to him.
b. Litigation. In many cases, a lawyer gets admitted to the bar of another state on a pro hac vice basis which means that they can appear in the courts of that state for that one case. This done all of the time. Normally, the court will admit an attorney from another state to appear in a particular case if that attorney is in good standing.
2. Texas requires 15 hours of CLE a year of which five may be self study. 3 hours have to be in ethics on which one hour can be self study. In 2016, I taught a course on being a poll watcher that was given CLE credit. I got credit for preparing for and teaching that course. We are still in the planning stages for this cycle's voter protection efforts. I am hoping that they group that got the CLE certification does it again this year.
3. When you sign a pleading, you have to put your bar number on the pleading. The court can check to see if the attorney bar number is active. There are cases of courts not checking the bar number and people practicing law illegally but they are rare. Again, court administrators can check a bar number online.
I hope that this helps
KY_EnviroGuy
(14,494 posts)It sounds like your credentials are quite transportable, depending on states involved. That was interesting regarding your bar number, which I assume would remain with you for life.
We all are very saddened by the recent tragedy Texas has suffered. It will be interesting to see the results of the Governor's claim that a commission is set up and that it will somehow bring an end this type of event.
Have a good weekend.......
Gothmog
(145,567 posts)One of the partners are the first firm that I worked at was a former state bar president. He got a special bar number due to being to being president of the state bar.
This former state bar president also was the first to find out my bar exam results. This was in the olden days. Now you get your bar results online. I remember refreshing the webpage for these results for both of my older two children. In my day, you could have a clerk at the Texas supreme court check or you had to wait for the results to arrive by mail. I heard that result were out and drove to my apartment to check. Before I could get back to the office, the managing partner who was a former state bar president had sent out a paper memo (this was before the internet or e-mail) and everyone in the firm knew that I had passed and was the high grade from my law school. Again, this was by paper memo that was physically circulated to everyone at the firm. When I came back into the office, the receptionist congratulated me and that was the first time that I learned that I had the high grade from my law school.
As for Santa Fe, this town is near Houston. We are all sad at this tragedy. This is from the state party
Link to tweet
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)(I was an electrical engineer and IEEE member before becoming an attorney)
Exactly like the IEEE. The bar associations have specialty journals (like the IEEE interest sections), general interest magazines (like IEEE Spectrum), provide continuing education courses, and participate in legal reform, advocacy, etc. (like the standards and lobbying efforts of IEEE).
And, yes, discount programs, group health insurance, etc..
Apparently a number of states require association membership as a condition for bar membership. The analogy would be along the lines of requiring IEEE membership for a PE license.
KY_EnviroGuy
(14,494 posts)Sounds like it does typically carry good professional prestige and represents active participation in the legal community. We appreciate you and others of that community sharing your knowledge here because it helps correct some of the misinformation that floats around about our system of justice.
Good also to hear from someone familiar with the good work of our IEEE. Most folks don't know they set standards for products and processes they use every day!
......
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)He's banned from his own office building. Security won't let him in. They want him disbarred.
If he just apologized in his "fluent Spanish" the next day everyone would move the fuck on. All he would have to do is say "hey I'm sorry, I had a shitty day and said the meanest thing I could think of."
But he's slinking around and not saying anything.
MissB
(15,812 posts)As he seems to be a repeat offender. There is another video floating around of him being the same way to some random person walking on a sidewalk back in 2016.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)I don't think he could pull off a sincere apology at this point.
yonder
(9,676 posts)This fellow has some issues, and I wouldn't be surprised if he has a whole history of these provocations -- not all caught on tape. As for 1st amendment rights, he's basically a nut shouting "fire" in a theater, running the risk of getting himself or an innocent bystander hurt or killed, IMO.
I'm guessing also, that he's violating some sort of "rules of professional responsibility" or "code of conduct" in whatever professional associations he might be affiliated with.
Learning "Would you like fries with that?" in whatever languages he claims to speak, may be a worthy endeavor.
msongs
(67,443 posts)financial penalties
SoCalNative
(4,613 posts)and hopefully loss of income leading to financial and personal ruin.
mcar
(42,376 posts)public shaming and humiliation might teach him a lesson.
Phentex
(16,334 posts)but as others have said, he's having consequences for his actions already.
BigmanPigman
(51,630 posts)He already is kicked out of his office building. Today he was caught hiding under an umbrella and ski cap and whining. Where is his tough bravado now?
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-lawyer-big-mouth-shut-racist-rant-viral-article-1.3994773
PSPS
(13,614 posts)BigmanPigman
(51,630 posts)Last edited Thu May 17, 2018, 09:02 PM - Edit history (1)
"Rep. Adriano Espaillat (D-Manhattan) and Bronx Borough President Ruben Diaz Jr. filed a complaint Thursday with the disciplinary committee of the state court system about Schlossberg."
"Racism and hate have no place in New York state, and certainly no place in our justice system," said Diaz, calling for a review of Schlossberg's law license "for possible revocation."
Is having a law license different? This isn't my area of expertise.
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-lawyer-big-mouth-shut-racist-rant-viral-article-1.3994773
Response to PSPS (Reply #14)
GusBob This message was self-deleted by its author.
llmart
(15,553 posts)but in some states you are not required to be a bar member to practice law.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)llmart
(15,553 posts)and have now read your response. Thanks. I worked at a law school and remember that there was a movement by some group to stop requiring Michigan lawyers to be a member of the Michigan Bar Association, but I never found out if anything came of that. I think it went to the Michigan Supreme Court. I stopped following the issue because I guess I didn't care enough after I left that job for another.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)"And here's some other bunch of jackasses you have to pay fees to."
Bleah.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)In New York, where Schlossberg practices, your explanation is correct, as I set forth in excessive detail here. New York has what the Wikipedia article on "Bar association" calls a voluntary bar association, so Schlossberg needn't be a member to practice.
According to that article, however:
In some states, like Wisconsin, the mandatory membership requirement is implemented through an order of the state supreme court, which can be revoked or canceled at any time at the court's discretion. In others, like Oregon, the state legislature passed a law and created a government agency. California went farther than any other state and wrote the State Bar of California into its constitution.
The first state to have an integrated bar association was North Dakota in 1921.[5]
So now you have a list of states not to move to.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)This creature remains a member in good standing in California:
I mean... California? The requirement is obviously not doing them any good.
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)donald's legal team? Of course she could be the White House Physician as well.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Because, yeah, a dentist is pretty much just a highly specialized medical doctor.
And she comes with Barack Obamas real Kenyan birth certificate.
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)I lost a filling the day before I took the bar exam. I had no end of trouble with that tooth, and eventually just told them to take it out.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)Maybe she gives a discount to fellow attorneys.
I'm glad you were able to surmount your eve-of-exam problem. IIRC some people haven't been so lucky, and in New York, at least, there's absolutely no wiggle room and no make-up exam for medical reasons. People just have to wait until the next regular administration of the exam.
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)not want those fingers in my mouth regardless of how many sterile gloves were on them. Not to mention you could wind up getting a root canal when you came in for a cleaning.
treestar
(82,383 posts)The grounds for disbarment would involve dishonesty and misuse of client funds, but not dumbfuckery.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)Racist speech (like other forms of dumbfuckery speech) is constitutionally protected. If New York State tried to disbar Schlossberg over this, I hope and predict that he would sue the state and be promptly reinstated.
Gothmog
(145,567 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)I wonder how did they manage that? Maybe they just gave him 60 days or whatever days notice is required?
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)The way these things work is that there is no lease.
It's a service agreement. For $X you get the services of a reception area, conference room, use of office space, internet, telephone, etc.. What you don't get is a "lease" in any property.
It's the difference between Uber and renting a car.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Provide either side can terminate at will?
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)One of the leaders in this field of office sharing is WeWork. It is typical of these sorts of services. A lot of solo lawyers use them in order to have prestigious addresses like "Beverly Hills" etc.:
https://www.wework.com
Whether you need a desk, office suite, or entire HQ, we create environments that increase productivity, innovation, and collaboration.
Sounds great, right? You can get whatever workspace you need, and it's chockablock full of neat furniture, hipsters, and cool people.
This is their termination clause:
26.Account termination. If you fail, or if we suspect that you have failed, to comply with any of the provisions of these Terms, or at any other time when we in our reasonable discretion see fit to do so, we may, at our sole discretion, restrict your access to your account and the Services and/or terminate your account with immediate effect and possibly without prior notice to you. In addition, we may decline to renew your subscription for any or all Services at the end of your subscription period for any reason or for no reason. We may also at any time terminate your account, We Membership and/or Hot Desk if we discontinue the We Membership and/or Hot Desk program at a particular premises or at all premises. You can cancel your account at any time, by submitting a request at weworkcm.zendesk.com. Please note that if your individual account was created by a Company, (a) an authorized representative of such Company may at any time terminate your individual account by contacting us, and (b) we may terminate your account, even if the Companys account remains active, and even if you continue to be employed or engaged by such Company. Cancellation will be effective immediately upon our receipt of notice of cancellation. We do not provide refunds upon termination or cancellation of your account with respect to amounts already paid. You will remain liable for past due amounts, and we may exercise our rights to collect due payment, despite termination or expiration of your We Membership and/or Hot Desk. Sections 10 (to the extent any payment amounts are outstanding), 11-13, 19, 20, 22-25, 28-39, 31-48 shall survive any termination or expiration of these Terms.
----
I don't know if he specifically used WeWork (I can track it down by the address most likely), but these shared workspace arrangements provide you with as much entitlement as a seat in a movie theater.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)These folks provide flexible space arrangements and services on the 14th floor, where his "office" is located.
https://www.corporatesuites.com/office-locations/new-york/275-Madison-Avenue-NY-NY
Need a virtual office? Madison Avenue provides a prestigious mailing address located in the heart of New York City, minutes from Grand Central and a short walk from Port Authority and Penn Station, making it the perfect location to meet with your clients in tastefully decorated meeting rooms with the best in teleconferencing technologies. An attractive reception area with professional staff to greet you, your employees and your clients, offering phone answering services and mail handling, giving your business the look and feel of a Manhattan headquarters without the associated costs. When youre ready to expand, our furnished, dedicated offices provide the perfect environment in which to grow and maintain your business.
---
Look at the pricing plans. For $109 bucks a month, you get phone, mail, desk, and, lol.....
https://www.corporatesuites.com/new-york-city/virtual-office
Bilingual Receptionist Representing & Supporting Your Business
But, yes, these things are all service contracts terminable at will. Nobody is going to go into this business on the proposition that if some asshole uses their service, then everyone else is going to have to put up with him or the unwanted attention this location received.
treestar
(82,383 posts)I was not really familiar with that kind of arrangement; had heard of it, but it did not pop to mind.
Now that this Deplorable made himself infamous; there could be a lot of disturbances for the other customers - the Mariachi band for starters.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Dumbfuckery is simply unheard of among New York lawyers.
treestar
(82,383 posts)WhiskeyGrinder
(22,442 posts)smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)NYC, I have a feeling he is going to regret ever opening his big mouth. He might have gotten away with it in the deep south or the midwest, but New Yorkers are not going to let him forget it.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)We just love people like him in the south.
Bless your heart.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)But there are just too many people in certain parts of the country who do put up with this shit and even support it. Sorry, but it's reality.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)And trump got votes in New York, then I would assume there are people in New York who put up with this shit, and even support it.
And why dump on the south. Western PA is lots closer. They are every bit as bigoted as we southerns except their population is not 20-40% African Americans.
But hey, the south.
brer cat
(24,610 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)There's a gofundme page soliciting contributions to hire a Mariachi band to play outside that building and hire a taco truck to park there, too.
fierywoman
(7,694 posts)it's closed now but they raised twice what they wanted, so there's enough for a taco truck AND piñatas!:
https://www.gofundme.com/mariachisforaaron
George II
(67,782 posts)fierywoman
(7,694 posts)Gothmog
(145,567 posts)Uanita Jean will enjoy this http://juanitajean.com/oh-yall-5/
I never spent $10 that felt so good
Link to tweet
fierywoman
(7,694 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)A lot of parents have it done when their kids are just babies.
treestar
(82,383 posts)MicaelS
(8,747 posts)We have enough of our own in Texas.
DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)so if he ruined his rep by shouting and grabbing in public, no tears.
Kirk Lover
(3,608 posts)joshcryer
(62,276 posts)And everyone has a video recorder in their pocket.
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)Solly Mack
(90,787 posts)3. In a public place, he uses abusive or obscene language, or makes an obscene gesture;
240.26 Harassment in the second degree. A person is guilty of harassment in the second degree when, with intent to harass, annoy or alarm another person:
3. He or she engages in a course of conduct or repeatedly commits acts which alarm or seriously annoy such other person and which serve no legitimate purpose.
Aaron Schlossberg has been captured by phone video more than once engaging in the above behaviors.
Brother Buzz
(36,466 posts)playing La Cucaracha on their horns at at 118 decibels!
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)The endgame here is kinda obvious, try subtlety next time.
Kingofalldems
(38,485 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)hating a bigot. Every friggging day is right.
RhodeIslandOne
(5,042 posts)"What????? Me??????" post.
elleng
(131,129 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Such a meanie you are! LOL.
elleng
(131,129 posts)I want this guy OUT of the city my father, mother, their brothers and sisters, and my brother and I were born and grew UP IN!
OUT OUT OUT!!!
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Free speech enthusiasts, LOL. Thats the point of this BSOP.
Nevernose
(13,081 posts)People have the right to say whatever they want (within reason).
However, I know that if my family were looking to hire a lawyer, a racist with poor judgment and poorer impulse-control would be very low on my list of potentials. Is that the same thing as punishment?
Should he be punished? No. Are there natural consequences for peoples behavior? Often there are. Its like jumping off a building. Hitting the ground isnt a punishment, but it is definitely a foreseeable natural consequence.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)offended by racist assholes like this dude. If you suggest he ahut up, or any punishment before he gets due process, no matter how glibly its done.... youll be accused of facism- just as bad as Trump.
MaryMagdaline
(6,856 posts)Even though we've seen the whole ugly rant on video.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)MaryMagdaline
(6,856 posts)Response to MaryMagdaline (Reply #88)
miyazaki This message was self-deleted by its author.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Then invite the populace to come by to throw rotten fruit at him, point fingers, and sneer.
Like they did back in the day.
arthritisR_US
(7,299 posts)Kingofalldems
(38,485 posts)Not fooled.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)consequences?
I don't want to assume - it looks like that from this and your earlier threads, but I could certainly be wrong. What kind of consequences do you think someone who behaves like that should face?
ms liberty
(8,599 posts)TrollBuster9090
(5,955 posts)...with customers who get pissed off at him whenever he speaks ENGLISH to a customer who clearly speaks English.
Maybe send him to a fast food restaurant in Mexico City?
I spent part of my college years working in a restaurant, and it was hot, backbreaking labor, working for people who thought you were worthless, and who paid you pocket change for your (unskilled) labor. THAT WAS BAD ENOUGH, and I was a white kid from a privileged background. I went home at night to a nice house, and I didn't have assholes telling me to 'go home' to my own country.
Sheesh...anybody who works in fast food FOR A LIVING, instead of just for amusement money, deserves a damned medal.
LisaM
(27,832 posts)There's something really fishy about his behavior...
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)And by that I mean afflicted with some form of mental illness.
I've found its surprisingly common. Perfectly normal attorney, and one day, boom, it's like some switch was flipped in their head and they go full on bonkers with some kind of odd fixation.
One of the leading examples of this is Brud Rossman - a once highly-qualified and accomplished lawyer - who has taken to filing lawsuits against "The Jews" in various federal courts:
https://abovethelaw.com/2017/09/federal-lawsuit-filed-against-the-jews/
LisaM
(27,832 posts)Look at Dershowitz.
shanny
(6,709 posts)MineralMan
(146,331 posts)Loss of business may also occur, due to the extensive news coverage.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)Trump got 19% of the vote in New York City. For Trump, it's a pitiful share. For Schlossberg, though, if 19% of the prospective clients in New York City see the news coverage and decide that they've found their soul mate, he could do very well off this episode.
Put not your trust in karma.
democratisphere
(17,235 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)If it doesn't work, send him back for more.
By the way - I'm not joking. IMHO, bringing back the old stocks and rotten vegetables (properly administered and regulated to avoid serious physical injury) would be a good idea for certain social offenses which do not rise to the level of crimes.
For each count of "aggravated assholery", as determined by a jury of community representatives of some kind, the offender is taken to a place like, say, a park or school playground, and put into the stocks.
The community sets up a stand where one can purchase, at a price and numerical limit set by the jury, one or more over-ripe tomatoes. These may be donated from community merchants for a tax write-off.
The money raised goes toward programs to promote good manners and decent behavior.
A clock is set to measure how often persons are throwing tomatoes. When the rate goes below 1 tomato in the span of five minutes, then the community is deemed to have gotten it out of their system, and the offender is released from the stock.
Thereafter, anyone who commits an offense against the offender is themselves sent to the stock, to make it clear that "we deal with this as a community using the stock, and not freelance efforts".
I mean, sure, we can quibble over the exact implementation details, but as a general concept, I can't see why we couldn't just give it a try.
ProudLib72
(17,984 posts)THAT should be enough punishment for ten lifetimes!
muntrv
(14,505 posts)Initech
(100,104 posts)I hear that's the place where criminal attorneys find new careers.
Texasgal
(17,048 posts)works for me. I have no problem with him being publicly shamed. Fuck his racists rants!
Gothmog
(145,567 posts)I am ashamed that this asshole is a member of the bar. This may be remedied https://www.rawstory.com/2018/05/ny-lawmakers-call-disbarment-lawyer-aaron-schlossberg-racist-attack-workers/
The egregiousness of bold-faced racism, in all its ugliness, must be rejected and replaced with the kindness, solidarity and sense of togetherness that has made this great American experiment in democracy a shining example for all the world to see and admire for over two centuries, they wrote.
We are sending this grievance to say that you cannot engage in xenophobia, bigotry, hate and get away with it. Such behavior should never be tolerated, Espaillat added.
Response to oberliner (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
flibbitygiblets
(7,220 posts)What goes around comes around. Act like an asshole, society will correct you. Usually.
Gothmog
(145,567 posts)greyl
(22,990 posts)tenderfoot
(8,438 posts)tonedevil
(3,022 posts)you were just asking for a "friend" weren't you?
JNelson6563
(28,151 posts)We have acceptable standards in our society and he vuilated that. He is now a social outcast. What more should be done that isn't?
Gothmog
(145,567 posts)JustAnotherGen
(31,906 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)His being publicly outed as a vile racist will have deserved longstanding negative consequences on his life.
Gothmog
(145,567 posts)The bar needs to take some action as to this asshole
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Which is confusing to me since he presumably practices law.
Gothmog
(145,567 posts)Please read the material posted on this thread. New York state has a voluntary bar association but this asshole is still a member of the bar in that he is licensed by the state of New York to practice law. The New York bar association is voluntary and does not regulate attorneys. Here is a link to the agency that regulates attorney conduct http://www.nycourts.gov/attorneys/grievance/ and http://www.nycourts.gov/attorneys/grievance/complaints.shtml
As a member of the bar, this asshole is still subject to discipline. As noted on other posts on this thread, complaints have been filed against this asshole and I hope that this asshole is sanctioned.
Here is a link to the code of ethics for NY attorneys. http://www.nycourts.gov/rules/jointappellate/NY-Rules-Prof-Conduct-1200.pdf
Such code includes
Reporting Professional Misconduct
(a) A lawyer who knows that another lawyer has committed a violation of the Rules of Professional Conduct that raises a substantial question as to that lawyers honesty, trustworthiness or fitness as a lawyer shall report such knowledge to a tribunal or other authority empowered to investigate or act upon such violation.
and
MISCONDUCT
A lawyer or law firm shall not:
.....(h) engage in any other conduct that adversely reflects on the lawyers fitness as a lawyer.
Again, there are a number of posts on this thread about complaints being filed against this asshole. Since New Yorkers filed these complaints, I have no doubt that these complaints were filed with the correct committee. As a member of the bar (i.e., a duly license attorney who has agreed to abide by the ethical standards of the profession), I find the conduct of this asshole to be sufficient to justify an investigation in the fitness of this idiot to practice law.
Again, New York state has a voluntary bar association and that bar association is not responsible for regulating or disciplining attorneys. This asshole is still subject to being sanctioned by the appropriate state agency or committee and complaints have been filed with that state agency.
ornotna
(10,807 posts)All will be forgotten if no real punishments are doled out.
BritVic
(262 posts)Generic Other
(28,979 posts)Money was raised to hire a mariachi band to follow him singing "La Cucaracha."
MontanaMama
(23,337 posts)little black heart.
MicaelS
(8,747 posts)I am pretty much ok with anything else.
Bluesaph
(703 posts)We cant stop shaming him. Make others afraid to be like him. Make the racists crawl back under rocks from where Trump liberated them!
Make racists go back into closet status by making this guy the example.
Gothmog
(145,567 posts)tazmaniac
(114 posts)Gothmog
(145,567 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)definitely, for a lawyer to have a nonpaying client who never listens.
no_hypocrisy
(46,193 posts)lapfog_1
(29,226 posts)as a warning to other wypipo.
Just kidding... I'd probably just execute him... but then I think there are waaay too many people on the planet.
no just kidding again...
publish his views on race and then... maybe nobody will give him a job or use his services.