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DonViejo

(60,536 posts)
Sun Apr 29, 2018, 12:03 PM Apr 2018

Democrats need to stop believing this myth about Trump's base

By Julian Zelizer, CNN Political Analyst

Updated 2:28 PM ET, Sat April 28, 2018

(CNN)The big myth about the 2016 presidential election was that economic suffering drove most of Donald Trump's "base" directly into his hands in states such as Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Michigan. The story goes that while Democrats were tied in knots about identity politics, Trump's attacks on China, free trade and open-ended immigration appealed to struggling workers who believed he could bring back their jobs.The problem with the narrative is that we keep learning it is not true.

Some Democrats have responded to the widely circulated misconception about why Clinton lost by insisting that the party needs to move away from identity politics -- issues revolving around gender equality and racial justice -- and focus in on economic issues.

Instead, Democrats should be basing their 2020 election strategy on what is actually true.

A just-published study in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences by the political scientist Diana Mutz found that white, Christian, male voters were attracted to Trump out of fear that their social status keeps dwindling. It was, in fact, Trump who was focused on identity politics, not simply the Democrats.

more
https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/28/opinions/trump-base-economy-myth-opinion-zelizer/index.html

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Democrats need to stop believing this myth about Trump's base (Original Post) DonViejo Apr 2018 OP
Trump's Base is Based on White Male Supremacy dlk Apr 2018 #1
The survey also showed that about the same percentage of white WOMEN voters felt similarly. Texin Apr 2018 #21
He plays on fears for personal security Kolesar Apr 2018 #2
I think a lot of people would prefer it to be about Bettie Apr 2018 #3
So what does that tell us? The people that voted for him for this reason ooky Apr 2018 #4
Damn straight... besides, we can focus on identity politics AND economic issues at the same time!!! InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2018 #5
+1! KPN Apr 2018 #12
My sample base is small and certainly NOT scientific, but based on dozens of dameatball Apr 2018 #6
My anecdotal evidence is the same. BLM was not recieved well at all. bitterross Apr 2018 #15
Its the same old same old. People don't recieve these notions at all if you don't actually JCanete Apr 2018 #36
True. It actually goes a bit beyond that with people I know and knew then. dameatball Apr 2018 #42
I was texting a friend from my childhood GWC58 Apr 2018 #53
What LBJ said dalton99a Apr 2018 #7
Thanks for that LBJ quote. I passed it on to a couple of people. dameatball Apr 2018 #45
As true now as it was then jes06c Apr 2018 #54
I believe his base MFM008 Apr 2018 #8
White power/nationalism is white identity politics based on the belief that white skin Solly Mack Apr 2018 #9
This message was self-deleted by its author NCTraveler Apr 2018 #10
Keep in mind that there's a difference between his actual base and the entirety of KPN Apr 2018 #11
EVERYONE who voted for trump either did so BECAUSE he promised to shit on LuvLoogie Apr 2018 #17
I don't fully agree with that. Sorry. KPN Apr 2018 #27
Do you think anyone who voted for Trump was unaware of his abject racism, misogyny and xenophobia? Garrett78 Apr 2018 #31
I don't think everyone who voted for him KPN Apr 2018 #32
To be honest, I'm not sure which is worse.... paleotn Apr 2018 #34
Good question. Together, they both created KPN Apr 2018 #47
Uhmm... LuvLoogie Apr 2018 #35
OK. I may have misinterpreted; I didn't KPN Apr 2018 #48
My point exactly mercuryblues Apr 2018 #56
I totally disagree GulfCoast66 Apr 2018 #46
Still, nobody who voted for Trump was dissuaded by his abject racism, sexism and xenophobia. Garrett78 Apr 2018 #18
The hate factor! BlueJac Apr 2018 #25
If hate applies to status quo as well, then yes, the hate factor KPN Apr 2018 #30
That's true. But I believe some weren't KPN Apr 2018 #29
Ha! Called it!!! Initech Apr 2018 #13
This is *the* defining moment for our party. Garrett78 Apr 2018 #14
rather than trying to appease the cultural anxieties of white male voters, Democrats should instead progressoid Apr 2018 #20
Democrats already do just that, and a majority of working class people already vote Dem. Garrett78 Apr 2018 #23
I'd like to thank you for these posts. PatrickforO Apr 2018 #38
Thanks for the kind words. Garrett78 Apr 2018 #50
Trump's 'base' is in Russia Obvious85 Apr 2018 #16
Hate sells pecosbob Apr 2018 #19
1 word: Racism Duppers Apr 2018 #22
What kind of fool believes in a simple answer to a complex problem Bucky Apr 2018 #40
K&R BlueJac Apr 2018 #24
It's still the economy. stupid ollie10 Apr 2018 #26
But drop the stupid Bucky Apr 2018 #41
that was a clinton campaign theme....remember? ollie10 Apr 2018 #49
2016 was lost by left wing idealoges who would not vote beachbum bob Apr 2018 #28
They didn't vote, voted third party, or wrote in Bernie. Blue_true Apr 2018 #44
K & R SunSeeker Apr 2018 #33
Indeed it was. PatrickforO Apr 2018 #37
Trump's base was mostly white Republicans. But there was a Swing Vote Bucky Apr 2018 #39
Yup...people might want to look at how Obama won by 10 million votes in 2008 BeyondGeography Apr 2018 #51
The swing was around 80,000 voters in key states who were individually targeted on the Internet. rzemanfl Apr 2018 #52
The only person pushing that "message" is Bernie Sanders. Blue_true Apr 2018 #43
My Take jes06c Apr 2018 #55

dlk

(11,574 posts)
1. Trump's Base is Based on White Male Supremacy
Sun Apr 29, 2018, 12:06 PM
Apr 2018

This crowd votes their values despite the fact it has harmed their economic best interest for decades. They are not likely to change.

Texin

(2,596 posts)
21. The survey also showed that about the same percentage of white WOMEN voters felt similarly.
Sun Apr 29, 2018, 02:00 PM
Apr 2018

This is about a large percentage of white voters - the majority of them, in fact - who wanted to maintain control of their historical supremacy over minorities. The anglo settlers of South Africa did the same thing for over a century there with apartheid until they couldn't any longer. This is really what's at the heart of the trump effect, coupled with the sick and twisted identity cultists who follow the no-talent, no-nothing, know-nothing Kardashians and others like them.

Kolesar

(31,182 posts)
2. He plays on fears for personal security
Sun Apr 29, 2018, 12:09 PM
Apr 2018

Conservatives have phobias about disease, so he plays up this hyped concern about lowly people. He calls them names like breeding offspring from shithole countries. It works for him. We have these biases in our culture and he knows how to play them.

Bettie

(16,117 posts)
3. I think a lot of people would prefer it to be about
Sun Apr 29, 2018, 12:14 PM
Apr 2018

economics.

It is hard to face that a much larger segment of our population than we thought are so hateful.

I always knew that there were a bunch of hate-filled people (racism, homophobia,misogyny, and too many other versions of hate to list without forgetting some).

But the election showed how many there are and then, following the election, they stopped hiding it. They now flaunt it, they wear their ignorance as some kind of twisted badge of honor..."I hate (fill in the blank) and I'm proud of it!".

If it were about economics, I know I'd understand, but if it were about economics, Clinton would have won every freaking state, because these people (most of them) voted against their economic interests.

ooky

(8,926 posts)
4. So what does that tell us? The people that voted for him for this reason
Sun Apr 29, 2018, 12:22 PM
Apr 2018

will do it again in 2020. We need to forget that base and remember they can't do it if they are alone. The strategy needs to be on identifying who voted for him for other reasons, the swing voters, and on getting our own voters to the polls to vote for our candidate.

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,122 posts)
5. Damn straight... besides, we can focus on identity politics AND economic issues at the same time!!!
Sun Apr 29, 2018, 12:22 PM
Apr 2018

It's not like the two are mutually exclusive... DOH!!

dameatball

(7,399 posts)
6. My sample base is small and certainly NOT scientific, but based on dozens of
Sun Apr 29, 2018, 12:22 PM
Apr 2018

co-workers and also members of my family (and a few neighbor types) it seemed like I heard "Black Lives Matter" a lot more than I should have. There is indeed a lot of previously hidden racism out there than I realized prior to the past two years or so.

 

bitterross

(4,066 posts)
15. My anecdotal evidence is the same. BLM was not recieved well at all.
Sun Apr 29, 2018, 01:42 PM
Apr 2018

There were a lot of people I deal with who took offense to the BLM movement and, now to Kaepernick and kneeling than I expected.

I guess the fact that an intelligent, well-spoken black man could be President scared the shit out of the racists. The overt and the latent ones. Probably affected Hillary's votes as well. The thought of a successful woman right after a successful black man really set them on edge.

 

JCanete

(5,272 posts)
36. Its the same old same old. People don't recieve these notions at all if you don't actually
Sun Apr 29, 2018, 03:08 PM
Apr 2018

put them in their face to see. The first reaction is certainly not going to be welcoming and Trump and the GOP of course(because they think this way but also because they know their base), knew how to tap into the reactionary nationalism and bigotry. That it is brought up with us (presumably because I'm white and "safe&quot is an opportunity to undermine their preconceptions and diffuse their rankor. I've heard more than once that BLM should have just done it a different way, to which I asked..."What way is that? If there is another way to get you to be aware of this issue, then what is it? Would you be talking about BLM today if they had done something less demanding of your attention? Would remaining invisible to you solve anything?"

To which of course, there was no answer because there is no good answer. It takes more than that, and I doubt that people wanting to hold onto their version of the world will be totally evangelized by an occasional challenging of their assumptions, but it is still a start.

dameatball

(7,399 posts)
42. True. It actually goes a bit beyond that with people I know and knew then.
Sun Apr 29, 2018, 04:34 PM
Apr 2018

BLM was born out of a need to point out some terrible injustices and outright crimes going on and get them out where not just black people would see the issues (my take). But I actually had a few people tell me that they thought Obama was behind it. I found that mind boggling. Obama did have some positive commentary on BLM but come on. He had a lot more on his plate in any event.

But.....even if it was true......which it wasn't........his comments were infinitely less inhospitable or devisive than what comes out of every Trump rally. But that gets a pass.

GWC58

(2,678 posts)
53. I was texting a friend from my childhood
Mon Apr 30, 2018, 11:03 PM
Apr 2018

and was telling me he stopped watching NFL games last year after the first kneel. Didn’t watch the playoffs, or Super Bowl. He said he’ll never watch again. Said they’re pampered, overpaid athletes playing where tickets are overpriced. His words were “Fuck the NFL!” Now I don’t know if he supports Trump, didn’t ask. I have to believe many of Trump’s followers feel the same.

dalton99a

(81,558 posts)
7. What LBJ said
Sun Apr 29, 2018, 12:29 PM
Apr 2018

"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

Solly Mack

(90,778 posts)
9. White power/nationalism is white identity politics based on the belief that white skin
Sun Apr 29, 2018, 12:39 PM
Apr 2018

makes a person superior to all others, and that having white skin means the world, and everyone else in it, owes obedience to a system that favors white skin.

Racism is the epitome of identity politics.

When someone says to move away from supporting equality for people of color, women, the LGBT community so that fragile white people who do not favor equality for all can feel better about themselves, they are saying - embrace the identity politics of racists and bigots.

Well, screw that.

Response to DonViejo (Original post)

KPN

(15,647 posts)
11. Keep in mind that there's a difference between his actual base and the entirety of
Sun Apr 29, 2018, 01:22 PM
Apr 2018

those who voted for Trump.

While I believe there is great truth to the conclusions drawn in this study, I don't believe everyone who voted for Trump did so fully or even in part because of the fears attributed to his base by this study. It is not incomprehensible that the two are mutually exclusive subsets of Trump voters.

LuvLoogie

(7,020 posts)
17. EVERYONE who voted for trump either did so BECAUSE he promised to shit on
Sun Apr 29, 2018, 01:54 PM
Apr 2018

the gays, the minorities, the liberals, the immigrants--or because they didn't give a shit if he did as long as it wasn't them and they got a tax cut or a coal job.

Garrett78

(10,721 posts)
31. Do you think anyone who voted for Trump was unaware of his abject racism, misogyny and xenophobia?
Sun Apr 29, 2018, 02:25 PM
Apr 2018

Do you think anyone who voted for Trump could have possibly been ignorant of the horrendous things upon which he built his campaign, including Birtherism?

If so, I'll gladly sell you some bridges.

The "birther" thing alone should have ruled him out as a candidate.

KPN

(15,647 posts)
32. I don't think everyone who voted for him
Sun Apr 29, 2018, 02:36 PM
Apr 2018

was racist, misogynistic or xenophobic. I don't think everyone who voted for him was ignorant of "the horrendous things ion which he built his campaign". I don't believe the two are the same. I think some voted for what they thought would be change in status quo -- without a lot of thought about those other things. In that regard they were ignorant, but not necessarily racist, misogynist or xenophobic.

Sorry. That's my view.

paleotn

(17,937 posts)
34. To be honest, I'm not sure which is worse....
Sun Apr 29, 2018, 02:55 PM
Apr 2018

...blindly voting out of ignorance in order to change the status quo to something.....different.....in some way..... or being racist, misogynist and / or xenophobic.

KPN

(15,647 posts)
47. Good question. Together, they both created
Sun Apr 29, 2018, 06:00 PM
Apr 2018

the national nightmare we are contending with. I do see some opportunity for redemption, some ability to vote against the bloated moron among the anti-status quo voters at least. His base on the other hand will never forsake him.

LuvLoogie

(7,020 posts)
35. Uhmm...
Sun Apr 29, 2018, 02:56 PM
Apr 2018

KPN: " I think some voted for what they thought would be change in status quo -- without a lot of thought about those other things."

LuvLoogie: or because they didn't give a shit if he did as long as it wasn't them and they got a tax cut or a coal job.

KPN

(15,647 posts)
48. OK. I may have misinterpreted; I didn't
Sun Apr 29, 2018, 06:05 PM
Apr 2018

View a vote against status quo without a lot of thought as not giving a shit. But I guess I can see how that's essentially what you meant.

mercuryblues

(14,537 posts)
56. My point exactly
Mon Apr 30, 2018, 11:23 PM
Apr 2018

They saw all this and said That's the man I'm gonna vote for!

There is no way around it. there is no way anyone who voted for him was unaware of his racism, misogyny and xenophobia, It was the central point of his campaign. Everything else was "trust me, it's gonna be the best" He had absolutely no policy plans other than build a wall and deport them all. He tossed out a tax cut policy that increased their taxes and lowered his own.

You know what the unemployment rate was the day he took office? 4.9%. Today it is 4.1% and his fans are cheering that he got it down to historic lows. WTF He has ridden the wave of Obama policies and taking credit for the economy. The UE has dropped .8% in 16 months. Economic anxiety my ass.

Now that the tax cut bill has been signed, we will see what trump policies will do.




KPN

(15,647 posts)
29. That's true. But I believe some weren't
Sun Apr 29, 2018, 02:24 PM
Apr 2018

thoughtful about those things either. Being not thoughtful about doesn't make one a participant or proponent in my book though. However, I think I'd agree that it does make them ignorant.

Initech

(100,091 posts)
13. Ha! Called it!!!
Sun Apr 29, 2018, 01:26 PM
Apr 2018

The GOP is playing identity politics. The difference is that we incorporate the ideas of many different backgrounds. They incorporate the ideas of just one - straight white males.

Garrett78

(10,721 posts)
14. This is *the* defining moment for our party.
Sun Apr 29, 2018, 01:28 PM
Apr 2018
I've written about this repeatedly.

And the most thorough, impressive piece I've read on this topic was posted just recently here on DU.

Those from Bernie Sanders to George Lakoff to Sam Harris need to knock it off with the "move away from identity politics"/economic anxiety argument.

This is a defining moment for our party and for the oppressed. Those in denial about why people voted for Trump need to wake the fuck up, and now.

Raise hell about race-based voter suppression and gerrymandering. Talk about what the United Nations' Working Group of Experts on People of African Descent had to say following their visit to the US in 2016.

Incorporate the platform of TM4BL.

Don't shy away from those things. Embrace them...over and over and over again. Scream it from the rooftops. Again and again and again. Instead of taking persons of color for granted, reward persons of color for saving us all from disasters such as Roy Moore. And do so because it's the right thing to do. Do so because we believe in justice. Do so because we know injustices that are seemingly of the past continue to haunt us, continue to impact the present. Do so because we recognize the truth in James Baldwin's words: "History is not the past. It is the present. We carry our history with us. We *are* our history. If we pretend otherwise, we literally are criminals."

And keep talking about the systemic nature of what led to the Me Too movement. These are not isolated incidents carried out by a few bad apples. This is a systemic, cultural problem that requires us to ask questions such as, "How do we need to change the way we raise boys in this society, so as to best address toxic masculinity and objectification?"

And, of course, push for single-payer health insurance, fight to reverse wage stagnation and the growing wealth disparity, promote unionization and labor rights, equal pay for women, increased paid family leave, etc. Remind people that the Democratic Party platform is the cure for economic anxiety.

And talk about toxic science denial. Talk about the desperate need to stop anthropogenic global warming.

And push for media reform. Talk about how the bullshit "liberal media" campaign of the last several decades, as well as a misplaced prioritization of ratings, has successfully resulted in an infotainment industry that promotes false equivalencies and treats all statements as equally valid opinions (as if there are no facts and there are no falsehoods). Advocate for media literacy to be taught in schools.

Forget about going out of our way to win over so-called Reagan Democrats or Trump voters. If they wake up, great. But Democrats need to focus on the above points, GOTV and win. Win. Win. Win. Otherwise, we're all screwed.

progressoid

(49,992 posts)
20. rather than trying to appease the cultural anxieties of white male voters, Democrats should instead
Sun Apr 29, 2018, 01:59 PM
Apr 2018

From the article,

So, rather than trying to appease the cultural anxieties of white male voters, Democrats should instead focus on offering them economic solutions to their challenges...


Economic solutions? Hmmm...what politician is regularly chided for focusing too much on economic solutions? I can't recall his name. Flanders? Standers?

Garrett78

(10,721 posts)
23. Democrats already do just that, and a majority of working class people already vote Dem.
Sun Apr 29, 2018, 02:07 PM
Apr 2018

People often bemoan the fact that millions vote against their economic interests. But the reason why is clear. They are voting *for* their perceived cultural/social interests.

Absent racism, the Republican Party would cease to be viable. The Democratic Party message is infinitely better on every issue that should matter to working people.

In Ohio, Rob Portman (a major advocate of NAFTA) outperformed Trump. So much for the issue of trade being oh so important to Trump voters.

As I've written before:

It's been postulated that social injustices are caused by wealth or income disparities. So, if we address the latter, we'll address the former. That reflects a fundamental misunderstanding of the relationship between social and economic justice.

I'm sympathetic to what many dismiss as "far left" points of view, but this is one major issue that many leftists get wrong. In fact, you might even say people who make the above claim have it completely backwards. The fostering and exploitation of bigotry (along with race-based voter suppression and gerrymandering) is what enables Republicans to win political victories, which leads to right wing economic policies being enacted. Those policies hurt more than anyone those who are already most oppressed. Then, the wealth gap between white individuals and persons of color is justified using various stereotypes.

This has been the case since the founding of the US on the genocide of one people and the enslavement of another. Remember, race is a social construct. And "whiteness" (along with its supposed superiority) was an invention borne out of the need to prevent a united front by all poor, oppressed people. Whites would be indentured servants with light at the end of the tunnel, while Negroes would be kept in bondage. Poor whites would be thrown a bone (and a whole lot of propaganda), enough to make them feel superior, enough to make them feel like they had more in common with their oppressors than their fellow oppressed.

Social Security (initially), the GI Bill, access to housing and other investment opportunities, the right to vote, access to higher education, access to employment with a decent wage, access to a fair trial and so much more was essentially denied to persons of color and women. Those injustices (even those that were seemingly resolved) continue to impact the present, including the wealth gap between white households and black and brown households, between men and women. Therefore, a rising tide has not historically lifted all boats. Ta-Nehisi Coates makes "The Case for Reparations."

This is why social justice victories (legalizing gay marriage) and breaking barriers (first Black POTUS, first woman POTUS, first transgender state legislator, etc.) constitute more than mere symbolism. They are cracks in the facade, and crucial steps toward addressing economic injustice.

Much has been made of the *white* working class, or even white working class men. Democrats already do better than Republicans among the working class. In saying Democrats shouldn't go out of their way to appeal to *white* working class men, the point isn't to denigrate that subset of the population. The point is that the Democratic Party platform should already appeal to the working class. And, for the most part, it does, based on exit polls following every election.

Why speak specifically of *white* working class folks? We all know why. Either it's because there's this assumption that only white people work or experience economic anxiety (horribly racist and obviously false), or it's because a certain portion of *white* working class folks are voting based on factors that have nothing to do with candidate positions on wage stagnation, workplace safety, health care, equal pay, paid family leave and all of the other issues that should matter to the working class.
If that's the case, and I think we all know that it is, what does one suggest Democratic candidates do?

Should Democratic candidates not talk about criminal injustice, the race-based "War on Drugs," race-based voter suppression, a path to citizenship and the fact that US policy has been a driver of immigration all around the world, reproductive rights, equal pay, a culture that suggests sexual assault is tolerable, and so on? If not talking about those things, or - worse - taking the opposite position is what it will take to win over a certain subset of the population, then that's just too bad. As Dr. King said, "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Just as some rich folks recognize the danger of extreme economic disparity, we should all want less disparity (in terms of wealth, criminal justice, medical care, housing, etc.) between white folks and persons of color, between men and women, between gay and straight. Get on board with Democrats or lose, because ultimately "the arc of the moral universe bends toward justice."

So, in summary, going back to the invention of race/whiteness, the fostering and exploitation of bigotries has enabled economic disparities in the US. Economic disparities aren't what enable racism and sexism, though economic disparities are used - after the fact - as justification for social/cultural wealth disparities (again, stereotypes are used to justify the wealth gap between black and white households, for instance). Racism and sexism are what enable economic disparities. Whiteness and patriarchy had to be invented as a means to divide and conquer.

We must address racism (including xenophobia) and sexism head-on. If we don't, there's no hope of substantially redistributing wealth or opportunity. A common response to what I’ve written is that “we must fight for both economic and social justice” or that “it’s not an either-or situation.” Of course it isn’t. Of course Democrats and all people of conscience should be fighting for progressive taxation and closing tax loopholes, paid family leave, universal health care, ending imperialism, and so on. My point, though, is that right wing economic viewpoints survive and prosper precisely because of bigotry. Absent racism alone (to say nothing of other forms of bigotry), the Republican Party would cease to be viable.

Liberals often lament that millions "vote against their economic interests." Lament no more, as the reason has always been quite clear. The reason is those millions are voting *for* their perceived cultural/social interests.

And we must recognize that a rising tide is not sufficient. Measures must be taken to reverse history, so to speak. A good place to start: https://policy.m4bl.org/platform/.

Lastly, a message for the young folks and others who are hoping for a viable left wing alternative to the Democratic Party in this 2-party system of ours. The first step is ending the viability of the Republican Party. And we do that by significantly diminishing racism, sexism, heterosexism and xenophobia (because that, and not right wing economic policy, is what's keeping the GOP alive). In the meantime, you need to support the only viable party that stands in the way of fascism. And you need to recognize that addressing social injustice is key to addressing economic injustice.

PatrickforO

(14,585 posts)
38. I'd like to thank you for these posts.
Sun Apr 29, 2018, 03:30 PM
Apr 2018

They are the most thoughtful exposition on social and economic justice I've seen. I was a big Bernie supporter in 2016, and still smart because of the meme that made him out a racist because he was after economic justice while social justice was more important.

But I see your point now. I carry around white privilege every day, so I can never understand what it might be like being without that. That's why I genuinely thought that if we embraced Sanders' platform, it would make life measurably better for all Americans. Unfortunately, as you say, until we overcome the false cultural/social 'interests,' we really won't get much further as a species.

In fact, we may well go extinct, with this earth continuing to circle the sun as a smoking cinder upon which nothing can live.

Garrett78

(10,721 posts)
50. Thanks for the kind words.
Mon Apr 30, 2018, 09:17 PM
Apr 2018

I'm more than a little sympathetic to what some dismiss as "far left" points of view. I wasn't wild about either of our options in the 2016 primary and I think Sanders is right about a good number of things, and I don't think he's racist--just ignorant. However, his contribution to the misunderstanding of the relationship between social justice and economic justice (and his serious downplaying of the role racism played in Trump's rise to power) is more than just a little problematic (since he has a large following--largely young, white people).

And that's why I continue to - and support others doing the same - point out just how wrong the "white working class/economic anxiety" argument is. As I stated above, that argument itself is racist (which is not to say everyone pushing that argument is racist). Few seem to realize they are suggesting that only white people have economic anxiety or that the working class consists of just white people, completely disregarding the fact that a majority of working class folks vote Dem (and that Democratic Party policy is and has for a long time clearly been better for...well, pretty much everyone).

pecosbob

(7,542 posts)
19. Hate sells
Sun Apr 29, 2018, 01:58 PM
Apr 2018

Very simply they used hate to get him elected...along with the whole cookbook of election fraud, voter suppression and ratf*ckery. The Democratic Party needs a message stronger than hatred.

Bucky

(54,039 posts)
40. What kind of fool believes in a simple answer to a complex problem
Sun Apr 29, 2018, 03:37 PM
Apr 2018

If every single person who voted for Trump is a racist, the country is already lost. Just move to Canada. But the fact that Obama won a clean majority both times tells me you're wrong.

Bucky

(54,039 posts)
41. But drop the stupid
Sun Apr 29, 2018, 03:41 PM
Apr 2018

It's the economy, but that economy is complicated. It's good for some people. It's good overall. But Trump won because are still pockets of Despair because of overall negative trends.

Obama took care of many short-term problems. But the long-term problem of growing income inequality is part of what works so good for Trump among swing voters.

Yes, his identity politics helped him with his base among Republican voters, but his economic message is what won him the swing vote and put him over the top with the Electoral College.

 

beachbum bob

(10,437 posts)
28. 2016 was lost by left wing idealoges who would not vote
Sun Apr 29, 2018, 02:19 PM
Apr 2018

Or voted 3rd party because of their "can't support the lesser of 2 evils".....trumps base and supporters did not get him elected. Stein voters did.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
44. They didn't vote, voted third party, or wrote in Bernie.
Sun Apr 29, 2018, 04:41 PM
Apr 2018

After viciously attacking Hillary and ignoring the rancid racism and rampant misogyny of Trump.

PatrickforO

(14,585 posts)
37. Indeed it was.
Sun Apr 29, 2018, 03:11 PM
Apr 2018

Excellent post and thank you.

I'm tired of walking on eggs, apologizing for my progressive ideals for the sake of a bunch of white guys afraid to lose what little they have left after decades of the degeneration of the American middle class.

It isn't the fault of minorities, LGBTQ people, disabled people, women or immigrants that these white men's wealth and status seems to be running through their fingers like so much sand.

It is the fault of billionaire parasites such as the Koch brothers and the Mercers. These people have systematically robbed ALL OF US year after year, decade after decade. ALEC writes legislation that their Republican shills duly introduce in state legislatures, and we get further and further away from democracy.

The best definition I've ever heard of democracy was spoken by my friend Dan. I'm not sure where he heard it, but here it is:

Democracy is when people have a say in policies that affect them.


And, you know what? It doesn't hurt me as a white man in the least to share the table with all people. We have plenty of money to ensure that everyone in the world has enough. It is just in too few hands.

Over 20,000 people per day on this, our earth, die of starvation. Starvation. How can we possibly hold our heads up when people are dying of starvation? How can we hold our heads up when people around us, right here in the USA, go hungry? When they die because they cannot afford health care? When they are gunned down in mass shootings because weapons manufacturers want higher profits? When our children's schools languish without the resources they need because money has been bled off so wealthy people can use our taxes to send their children to private schools? When prisoners are denied medical treatment and die in agony?

Let us wake up! This is OUR world. Let us make it a place worth living in for EVERYONE, not just the few.

And..........please don't tell me that I have my head in the clouds. Unless we start reorganizing ourselves along these distinctly non-capitalist lines, our species may well go extinct. We only have one world and these turds in power now are fucking it up so fast it makes our heads spin.

Bucky

(54,039 posts)
39. Trump's base was mostly white Republicans. But there was a Swing Vote
Sun Apr 29, 2018, 03:33 PM
Apr 2018


And there were swing votes that Trump picked up. That was his winning margin in those swing States. That's who matter here. Not traditional Republican voters. We're never going to win traditional Republican voters. It's the swing voters that we have to be concerned about.

BeyondGeography

(39,377 posts)
51. Yup...people might want to look at how Obama won by 10 million votes in 2008
Mon Apr 30, 2018, 09:38 PM
Apr 2018

He got 43 percent of the white vote, HRC got 37 percent. He also won 26 percent of the evangelical vote; HRC got 19 percent. A lot of it was younger voters. Granted, there were extenuating circumstances besides the candidates themselves. We were in the middle of a GOP-led crisis and HRC was trying to extend an 8-year Democratic WH run which is always difficult. But there is such a thing as persuadable independents and they shouldn’t be lumped in with base voters.

rzemanfl

(29,565 posts)
52. The swing was around 80,000 voters in key states who were individually targeted on the Internet.
Mon Apr 30, 2018, 10:01 PM
Apr 2018

By Cambridge Analytica, Russia and Project Alamo.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
43. The only person pushing that "message" is Bernie Sanders.
Sun Apr 29, 2018, 04:38 PM
Apr 2018

Bernie seems to think that if a racist, mysogonist gets $150 more per month in his pay slip, that he is going to sprinkle good will and good tidings on those he hate for no reason.

jes06c

(114 posts)
55. My Take
Mon Apr 30, 2018, 11:22 PM
Apr 2018

Mainstream media did their damndest to normalize Trump and make it acceptable for people to vote for him. When Trump said or did something too heinous to ignore, justify, or explain away, then they'd manufacture a controversy about Clinton, or dig up something from decades ago, claim both sides are bad, and call it a day.

I say this as a Sanders supporter. I've heard a lot of my fellow Sanders voters claim Clinton was a flawed candidate, and that Sanders would have mopped the floor with Trump. Bull. The media is so scared of being accused of having a "liberal bias" that they would've done the exact same thing with Sanders. Or any Democrat. And they'll do the same in 2020. Trying to find the perfect, squeaky clean candidate is a fool's errand. They'll run with something, ANYTHING, so they can give Trump voters the comfort that their guy is no worse than the other guy.

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