Migrant Caravan is almost here. Why is this getting so little attention on DU?

[lunamagica]

Last edited Wed Apr 25, 2018, 02:36 PM - Edit history (1)

I posted this as a reply in another thread, but that thread is not getting attention, so I thought I'd post it as an OP

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I have been following their (migrant caravan) seemingly endless plight on Univision which is doing nightly reports.

I don't know how they do it. This would be an odyssey for a young, healthy person traveling alone, but there are people of all ages an physical shape who find a way to climb on the beast, carrying their few possession and their children on their backs.

The women walk miles carrying their babies, from almost newborns to toddlers. Many of the children have been getting sick.

One has to imagine the desperation for someone to drag children so young and making them endure such a dangerous and harrowing journey. Some have commented that they realized they faced all kind of dangers, even death by joining the caravan, but at least they see hope at the end of the journey.

The thing that breaks my heart is that it will probable be in vain. When they are interviewed and say that they hope that trump will be moves by their story, and he has children and must understand how they feel...oh, my, I can't take it.





https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/ixyidgd4WUhuy_bJpqstBA--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9ODAwO2lsPXBsYW5l/

?w=696

https://estaticos.efe.com/efecom/recursos2/imagen.aspx?lVW2oAh2vjPc8AzG-P-2bc-P-2bakf4o5hY03D1fQ4TncnkXVSTX-P-2bAoG0sxzXPZPAk5l-P-2fU5UdwlYWmaMRDS1h1KYOr-P-2fz-P-2bA-P-3d-P-3d

https://i.cbc.ca/1.4628000.1524220274!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/16x9_1180/usa-immigration-caravan.jpg?imwidth=100

[brooklynite]

1. Do you think the United States should take in every economic immigrant?

Yes, there are jobs Americans won't take. But if there are NO limits to immigration, eventually they'll start taking jobs from, or pushing wages down for, working class Americans.

[lunamagica]

3. You obvously have no idea what is going on. These people fear for their lives

They are escaping violence, especially gang violence from MS-13 members which were created here and then deported. There are women who are running from me who raped them and when they tried to get justice nothing was done and now they fear they will be murdered. Domestic violence victims. Mother's with children who the gangs demanded to become members, and if they refuse, they will die.

Do you have any idea of the fear and desperation that would force anyone to do this? Do you really believe they'd risk their lives, and their children's lives this way just to come to the land of milk and honey?

[MichMan]

35. Why not seek asylum in Mexico then?

[lunamagica]

37. Right, because people aren't fleeing from Mexico

[MichMan]

38. I deal with dozens of customers and coworkers in Mexico at work

Not one has indicated they want to flee Mexico for asylum.

You make it sound like the entire country wants to leave because Mexico is too violent and everyone fears for ther life

[lunamagica]

41. What? What are you talking about?

"You make it sound like the entire country wants to leave because Mexico is too violent and everyone fears for ther life"

What entire country? Mexico? Where did I say Mexico is too violent and everyone fears for their life?

"

[MichMan]

51. "Right, because people aren't fleeing from Mexico"

You stated that they feared for their lives in Central America and were fleeing gang violence and rapists

When I asked why they just didn't seek asylum in Mexico (the neighboring country), you replied "Right, because people aren't fleeing from Mexico"


That was the only conclusion I could make from your own words was that you think Mexico is also life threatening with gang violence and rape. If you didn't mean that Mexico was also violent and life threatening, what exactly did you mean?

[lunamagica]

54. Oh, what convoluted logic.

Despite the dozens of Mexican clients you have, thousands of people flee from Mexico every year. You know that very well. I never said anything remote resembling that "the entire country" is fleeing due to violence. You arrived to that conclusion from thin air.

The fact is that Mexicans flee the country by the thousands annually for whatever reason. It doesn't makes sense to want to satay in a country in which so many of its own citizens feel the need to leave.

The reason the people of the migrant caravan will ask for asylum here is because they feel they have a better chance for a safe, productive life here.

[Blue_Tires]

59. I get that they're desperate...

But they do know who the current occupant is in the White House, and which way the political winds have been blowing in Washington in reference to people of color and immigrants/migrants, right?

[lunamagica]

60. I can't really answer that. It's hard to know how much they knew about trump before embarking on

their journey.

But we know that most Americans really don't follow politics and many don't get how evil trump is. I'd be surprised if people from Central America would know more about him and his character.

[stonecutter357]

5. Do you think the United States should take in every economic immigrant? YES ......

[mr_lebowski]

6. I hope you're not writing the Dem platform because that'd be electoral suicide for our party ..

Obviously you're very kind to feel this way ... personally I disagree, and also disagree with the 1st post hide, but oh well.

We cannot just throw open the doors to take in and grant citizenship to every single poor person worldwide, I'm sorry. NO COUNTRIES do that. That includes all of Europe, much of which many of us quite idolize/appreciate the governments thereof.

You don't even HAVE 'A Country' ... if you do that, basically.

It's nice to 'wish that we could do that' but from a practical standpoint it's a total non-starter.

That said I'd love to allow these folks in ... after vetting. They are refugees ...

[lunamagica]

7. They are not trying to sneak in. They are planning to ask for asylum

[mr_lebowski]

45. I am making that distinction ... but the post I'm referring to did not seem to be making the same ..

I think we're duty-bound to accept our fair share of legitimate refugees (esp. when our countries own policies like the WoD is largely responsible for the situation in the first place), but that's not the same as throwing our borders open to the entire world's economically disadvantaged, which is what the post I responded to seemed to imply supporting.

I WISH we could, I really do. It's a laudable sentiment. But to do so would mean you don't really have 'a country' anymore. And there's a VERY precious few of the voting bloc that would cotton to that notion.

[Amishman]

9. This, we need a better system but unlimited immigration is not the answer

I really like Canada's model which strikes a nice balance between compassion and fiscal responsibility.

I've posted about it before but I worry about the changes to the labor market over the next ten years as automation eliminates a lot of jobs. There will be a lot of people out of work and desperate; both here and abroad.

[sinkingfeeling]

20. I'm right this minute in a very small, Muslim country, Jordan that has taken in

over 2 million Syrian refugees. A far more 'christian' act than that of the USA.

[lunamagica]

25. I didn't know that. I did a little research after reading your post, and I found out that

Jordan has a population of 9,864,598, and the US is 110 times bigger than Jordan

http://www.mylifeelsewhere.com/country-size-comparison/united-states/jordan

It is like the tip of FL

You are right. They sure practice "Love thy neighbor as yourself"

[mr_lebowski]

44. Legitimate Refugees is different from The Whole World's Economically Disadvantaged ...

That's all I'm saying. And I agree with the point you're making in this post

[S.E. TN Liberal]

27. We should take them in. America is the cause of many of their problems at home.

America needs to stop interfering with duly elected governments.

Americans need to understand that supporting the rights of workers in other countries to have Unions helps stabilize the economies in those countries. More people would stay home if they can live there decently.

[wellst0nev0ter]

32. It did when it was white immigrants

n/t

[mr_lebowski]

47. To be fair, it was also a very different time with regards to resources ...

The era in which basically 'everyone was welcome' (though that really was never entirely true) was a time when our national resources seemed unlimited, and there was empty land/acreage as far as the eye could see in most regions of the country ... the entire time prior to roughly 1940, it must've GENERALLY seemed to US citizens that the more people that came here to grow the population and exploit the resource base & grow the infrastructure ... the better.

Of course, there were still 'unwelcome' folks ... for example, the Irish. Who were ethnically IDENTICAL to the English, but Ireland was 'poor', so they were seen as 'not bringing value to the economy', not like the Brits and French.

The notion that there was EVER a time in our country's past when there were not sizable contingents of 'natives' who weren't 'looking down on certain immigrants' that they saw as burdensome and 'out to take natives jobs' ... rather than productive contributors ... due to nationality/ethnicity ... is kinda laughable.

It's just worse now because every single square mile of the USA is now 'owned', and an awful lot of people can be manipulated via the RW propaganda network into being fearful that every additional 'mouth to feed' ... is a threat to their own 'next meal'.

[bigtree]

50. the economic pie is actually greater today

...there are actually more ways to manage our economy today with regard to the population.

[bigtree]

49. It's disgusting to me that you raised this red herring in response to this post

...who asked for unlimited immigration?

I wonder to what degree admitting more immigrants to the U.S. would affect you personally? What possesses you to raise these points in response to the op? Am I missing something here? An economically privileged person with an apparently ad hominem complaint about too many immigrants ... wtf?

[stonecutter357]

2. K&R

[lunamagica]

4. Thank you

[Me.]

8. KR

Off to the greatest with you

[lunamagica]

10. Thank you

[MineralMan]

11. Many years ago, a man I knew told me that he hated Mexican

immigrants. He used a common slur to describe them. He said, "They're taking our jobs. They're just coming here for money."

The man was someone who had a good job, a wife, children, a home, a couple of cars, and all that stuff. He worked hard and did all the right things to help his family thrive.

I asked him to imagine himself living in Mexico with his family, fighting hard to keep any food at all on the table and living in a two-room shack. I asked him if he wouldn't try to get across the border to find work and give his family a somewhat better chance and way of life.

To my surprise, he got it. He thought about it for a minute and said, "You know what? You're right. That's exactly what I'd do."

I never heard him attack Mexican immigrants again.

[lunamagica]

12. Thank you. It's too bad that so many lack the emphaty you possess

[MineralMan]

13. Yes, it's very sad. It's such a simple thing to understand, really.

Some people simply don't get it.

[mr_lebowski]

48. It's one thing to simply 'prefer they don't come' ... but a whole other thing to hate them just for

having to have the audacity to WANT to come, and for taking actions pursuant to that goal.

[ehrnst]

14. K&R

[lunamagica]

17. Thank you

[The Polack MSgt]

16. Kicking for visibility...

[lunamagica]

18. Thank you

[lpbk2713]

19. Many of the children are smiling because they think they are going to a better life.

The parents don't have the heart to tell them in all likelihood they will be turned back at the border. And they will surely be victims of crime and exploitation on the Mexican side of the border.

[lunamagica]

26. Their innocence and hopefulness is heartbreaking

[Demovictory9]

21. thanks for posting. some of us have been following this.

[lunamagica]

28. Thank you for replying

[ancianita]

22. You're right. I say we can't turn them back. DU can remember that courts of this country

Last edited Wed Apr 25, 2018, 07:00 PM - Edit history (2)

know that the founders were undocumented aliens, too. The writers and the ratifiers of the U.S. Constitution. All our ancestors from 1507 to 1776. Until the first immigration law fourteen years after that, nothing about new settlers was declared illegal or unconstitutional.

America, before and after its first immigration law, had been a sanctuary for 283 years. By its self-promoting, culture building and founding stories. Unlike most other countries.

Yes, there have been immigration laws, frequently repealed along the way.

The very first Naturalization Act of 1790 established rules for naturalized citizenship, (as per Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution) but placed no restrictions on immigration. Citizenship was for white men, with no other restriction on non-whites or women... Oh wait..

Then, since the Louisiana Purchase, white rangers scalped and killed Indians in a slow roll genocide westward, while 3-5% of Southern growers owned slaves and wrecked theirs and their descendants' lives for over a hundred years after, while women and children "loved" to survive by all the rules and laws.

That's why I take the stance that, given America's cruel past, all the greater is our moral imperative to assert that when people need asylum, coming from violent countries, our constitution supports the human right to life here -- human rights -- whether one's entry is "legal" or not.

Not just those 283 years of unlimited entry, but there's MLK's moral distinction between just laws and unjust laws; the Christian imperative to live by Jesus' Second Great Commandment.

My belief is that we have to keep evolving to live up to our best beliefs.

[lunamagica]

30. Thank you for this post. I agree with everything

[sheshe2]

23. The photo's and their story is heartbreaking.

Thank you for posting it here, lunamagica. I can only pray for a miracle.

[lunamagica]

31. Yes, I'm afraid it will take a miracle. Thank you Sheshe

[brer cat]

24. Thank you for sharing this, luna.

It is heartbreaking to think of the desperation that led them to undertake such a dangerous journey. They should be met with compassion and empathy.

[lunamagica]

33. I can't even imagine, brer. Thank you for replying

[Cha]

29. They're strong and they have a

worthy goal.. they're very lives may depend on it.

Gracias for reporting on this at DU.

[lunamagica]

34. They are risking everything, even their children's lives because they don't have another way out

I was surprised at how little interest DU has shown over this. It is constantly on my mind, wondering how it will end for them.

[Cha]

36. I'm hoping for the very best, Luna..

I know people care about them

[yardwork]

39. This is heartbreaking. We give billionaires tax cuts but we can't help these babies?

[lunamagica]

42. It is just cruel

[SunSeeker]

40. K & R

[lunamagica]

46. Thank you

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

52. Thank you for bringing this to my attention...

I didn’t know about their plight. My grandparents came to this country from Poland and Lithuania under some of the same circumstances, not quite as bad though. Religious and political persecution. It was hard for them also, they were not accepted by a large segment of America at that time. But, here I am still fighting for the freedoms that they instilled in our family.

[lunamagica]

55. Thank you. Here's a link to pictures of them on "The Beast", a train they ride most of the way

I can't post them here, so I'm providing the link:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/gallery/2017/dec/13/mexico-central-american-migrants-la-bestia-pictures

[Tarc]

53. "that they hope that trump will be moved by their story"

These people are in for some serious disappointment , then.

If you can stomach it, check out some of the right-wing discussion boards, they're calling for armed mobilization to make sure these people don't get in.

[lunamagica]

56. I know. I read them. But they are unaware of the kind of hatred that awaits them

[lpbk2713]

57. Kick for visibility.

Many families are being turned back to a hopeless life right at this moment.

[lunamagica]

61. Yes they are. Thank you

[a la izquierda]

58. Every American should watch...

Which Way Home and then read Devil’s Highway.

Perhaps sympathy towards migrants would then be more forthcoming.

[lunamagica]

62. I hope they do.