BRILLIANT move by Harry Reid

[scheming daemons]

Stating that a Bain investor told him that Romney hasn't paid taxes in 10 years.

Romney camp is now in a box.

They can't call Reid a liar, because then they would have to prove it by releasing 10 years worth of returns.

They can't ignore it, because that validates Reid's claim.

This is dirty pool by Reid, but the good kind. And the fact that it comes from a fellow mormon makes it juicier.


Bravo, Harry.

[Berlum]

1. Youbetcha

[truebrit71]

2. I have to agree...

...

[Rosco T.]

3. I don't care what people say.. I LIKE Harry :)

he's quiet, reserved.. the worst kind of person you want to piss off.. and Mitten's has

[Greybnk48]

20. I do too.

he's tough as nails and chooses his battles wisely. I don't agree with him 100%, but I truly admire him.

[PatrynXX]

68. cant remember the political name to FU he said on the floor of the senate the other day

but give em hell hairy. certainly rings true.... many things about harry I don't like, but he tends to be a great moderator.

[Robb]

4. I agree. I could only have liked this any better if it had come from Biden.

[SunSeeker]

44. Nah, it's better coming from fellow Mormon Harry Reid.

Plus, Biden is too close to being like your crazy uncle; he's said some wacky things (remember his quote about Obama?) so people tend to take what he says with a grain of salt. When Reid whispers something, you know it's not just bluster.

[Sheepshank]

51. Reid may lose his Mormon membership over this

He is already on their shit list for being a Democrat. Now he's pissing on their most wonderful darling the Royal Romney....the most wonderful noble white horse (prophecy) knight they have ever witnessed.

[jaysunb]

57. You're wrong about Biden being akin to

someones "crazy uncle." I think most "regular" people see him as a "regular" type guy who can't be bullshitted and says so.
Only the media types and politcal junkies think that going off script makes a politician some sort of gaff prone idiot. The people of Delaware sent him to the U S Senate 6 times (most in their history and they were one of the 13 Colonies) where he rode the train to work every day w/ regular people.

I don't mean to scold, but, we can't continue to play the name game w/ the media and their Republican masters. Joe Biden is one of their biggest worries and foe because, he connects w/ the very people they need to keep them in power.

[SunSeeker]

64. Relax. I didn't say Biden was crazy. Just that he's said some wacky things.

The guy does not seem to have much of a filter between his brain and mouth. Fortunately, he has a heart of gold, so he never says anything mean-spirited or hateful. Which is what makes him lovable. He's perfect as V.P. and has been an asset to the ticket.

But for purposes of dropping this tax bomb, Reid was the better messenger, no?

[jaysunb]

71. Absolutely agree !

None better than a fellow Mormon and a man known for being a quiet storm.

[heaven05]

131. more

bout time. he's been more like the absent storm for last four years

[vlyons]

124. I love Joe Biden!

He was my first choice in the 2008 primaries; yes even b4 Hilary. Loved his debate performances b4 he dropped out. And his many years on the Foreign Affairs committee made him a very wise man. And unlike Romney, Biden instilled his son with a sense of the serving his country, I believe in the Reserves and served a tour in Iraq. You might also remember that is was Biden who advised to only commit enough resources to do a police action in Afghanistan, not a big surge.

[Ruby the Liberal]

65. Outgoing Joe vs meek, reserved, fellow LDS Harry?

Harry doesn't shoot from the hip like Joe does. He was the perfect one to drop this - just like when he hinted it a few weeks ago when he said they wouldn't confirm Willard as dog catcher due to "not paying taxes".

This was just a followup to that.

NOW, Joe can speak to it - but having it come from Reid was a stroke of genius, IMO.

[riverbendviewgal]

5. Will the MSM be putting this out?

Last edited Wed Aug 1, 2012, 01:01 PM - Edit history (1)

Will the Romney team respond? What will happen to Harry Reid saying this?

[GoCubsGo]

31. It's trickling out.

It's on at Huffington Post, and I am hearing it on lefty talk radio. I suspect that it's only a matter of time before the MSM picks it up.

[annabanana]

6. So maybe he was cheating on his Church as well!

That would be 10% of WHAT, Bishop?

[kentuck]

36. I think that is a very important point.

How much did he tithe to his church in those years??

[JBoy]

94. That was my speculation a couple weeks ago

The tax returns will show he's not been a good Mormon.

[LiberalFighter]

101. Likely not more than 3%.

But he will still say it is a lot of money. Just like he said about the taxes he paid. But so what if the taxes is a lot of money. That is because he received a lot of taxable income that still should be taxed at higher rates.

[musiclawyer]

7. I have always thought that POTUS' camp knows it all.

Reid is the perfect messenger. Frankly I think there are several more shoes to drop. They probably have a timetable established.

[hifiguy]

13. Yep. My speculative guess is that someone from Grampy's camp

leaked Mittwit's taxes to the Obama campaign, that they know everything, and that Harry knows exactly what the WH knows. Harry doesn't gamble unless he has drawn the fourth ace. There are crates of shoes that are going to fall, but only when the POTUS and his peeps decide to drop them.

[hughee99]

22. What's the gamble on Harry's part?

All he's said is that he heard it from someone. There's no way to prove he didn't and he's not even up for election for another 4 years (I believe).

[hifiguy]

35. I don't see how he would say this unless he has

something to back it up. Which I am nearly certain he does. He's not the kind of guy to throw a match into the gas can just to see if there's anything in it.

[hughee99]

37. He doesn't have to back it up, all he would have to to is give the name of a guy

who was a Bain Investor. That person can either take the heat or deny it, either way it doesn't matter to Harry, it will not hurt his position in the Senate or his re-election chances.

[The Wielding Truth]

85. That's right. He just heard it from a reliable source.A Bain investor said it.

[hughee99]

87. I'm not sure why a Bain investor would be a reliable source as to what Romney's

personal tax returns look like, but he didn't claim any more than that.

[Astazia]

38. Sharon Angle's 2nd amendment solution didn't sell in 2010

Yep, four more years...2016. Mitch McTurtle was pulling for her hoping to be majority leader then & now. We gotta hang onto Senate this election.

[Chemisse]

133. That's why this is so perfect.

He's just throwing it out there. It would be quite easy for Romney to clear up the rumor (although I am betting this rumor is very close to the truth).

[Astazia]

30. I agree

Posted something like it yesterday. Someone has a Sept surprise...looks like it's starting sooner to develop. ''Give him heck Harry''

[jaysunb]

60. +1

Nver any doubt in my mind .

[lpbk2713]

8. Cue the GOP pissing and moaning in 3 ... 2 ... 1 ...

[big] "WAAAH!! No fair using the truth against us!!" [/big]

[phantom power]

9. Like LBJ said -- "make them deny it"

[aquart]

134. Yes. Make them sue you. If they dare.

I once worked for an insouciant madman who taught me that.

[hifiguy]

10. "Lyndon, you know that isn't true.

You know he isn't a pigfucker."

"Ah know it ain't true. Ah just want to make the sumbitch deny it."

[lumberjack_jeff]

75. Exactly. n/t

[Blue Meany]

11. The fact that this comes from a fellow Mormon lends some credibility

because Reid would likely be in some of the same social networks as Romeny. Bain was a largely Mormon-run company (or at least that is what non-Mormon executives complained about) and it had quite a few early investments in Mormon-owned Utah-based companies before it turned to predatory capitalism. It's not at all far-fetched that Reid might be friends with someone connected with Bain.

[d_b]

12. Nice

[KarenS]

14. Why do you call this "dirty pool"?

If it's true, then it's simply "the truth".

If it's a lie or speculation, then I guess I'd call it "dirty pool" to force his hand.

Just curious,,,, I like it tho =) Give'em hell, Harry!!

[grasswire]

15. Sting like a bee, Harry!! n/t

[backscatter712]

16. PWN3D!!!

I used to completely bash Harry Reid, but like Nancy Pelosi, he's seriously improved his game as of late!

[Lint Head]

17. All is fair in love and politics.

[greytdemocrat]

19. That's very true!!! nt

[RedStateLiberal]

18. Thank you Harry!

Glad someone is still putting the heat on Rmoney for refusing to release more tax returns.

This may be a Repub-type tactic but sometimes ya got to fight fire with fire!

[ChairmanAgnostic]

21. that means for a decade, he also screwed the Mormon Church out of its blood money.

[pscot]

24. Did he?

It would be interesting to know how much he gave the church for each of the last 10 years.

[awoke_in_2003]

42. I guarantee he gave the church...

a hell of a lot more than he did the IRS.

[SunSeeker]

45. Agreed. The Mormon church doesn't buy into that off-shore account crap.

If you're making money, you give 10%, or you're going straight to hell.

[JDPriestly]

117. Something along that line may be what he is hiding.

Anyway, trying to guess is fun. And gives us lots of opportunities to have a few laughs. At Romney's expense, which makes the whole situation funnier for us and uglier for him.

[LynneSin]

23. Harry Reid was boxer when he was younger

And he's still a scrappy 'boxer' today as a senator!

[BeyondGeography]

27. Yup...dude was born with cowbell

[otohara]

25. Give Him He'll Harry!

Check mate!

[The Wizard]

26. The Mormon Church

is really just a business network and venue for making and possibly laundering money. Now that this is out there, it will serve to make Romney slowly go nuts. There's really something wrong when a hobby nets a $77,000 tax right off.

[malaise]

28. Harry is not the same as his quiet voice

Ask that lunatic Sharon Angle.

[calimary]

29. Dirty pool? They have to understand - they MUST be willing to play dirty.

I hope our Dems are not naive anymore about how hard and ruthless and, okay, yeah, DIRTY, they're going to have to fight to prevail against these bastards. We have to meet them, dirty for dirty. Preferably MORE dirty for dirty (the MORE part being from OUR side).

We continue playing nice guy - and WE WILL GET ROLLED.

[kentuck]

33. and the important thing is...

that the Repubs have to respect the fight in the Democrats. Only then, will we ever get them to the table to compromise to make decisions that are in the best interests of the country. When they see that their methods no longer work, they will then change.

[kentuck]

32. Reid wouldn't have to play that card if...

Romney was a straight shooter. He's not.

[Fozzledick]

34. Great timing! Welcome home, how was your trip?

[DemocracyInaction]

39. when did you stop beating your wife

moment! !!! Gee, Mitt, why do you hate America?

[RagAss]

40. Harry showed up to a knife fight with a fucking hand grenade !!!!

About time !!! I Love it !!

[MrMickeysMom]

41. Kick!

Highly recommended to MSM...

[graywarrior]

43. The Reverend is gonna cover this in a few minutes

[Ruby the Liberal]

46. If there was only a way for someone to prove they paid taxes!

*thinking*

[randome]

54. Think harder!!!

[Snarkoleptic]

47. Harry is a brute and I'm loving it!

His soft spoken demeanor belies his pugilists instincts.
He's like a velvet covered sledgehammer!

[Rozlee]

72. Three years ago...

I never thought I'd be hearing anyone say that about Harry Reid.

[freshwest]

107. 'You always gotta watch out for the quiet ones.' That applies to him.

The blowhards aren't into things for the long haul, just the quick deal and they run away with their winning. Long-term thinking always wins, but makes no loud splashes.

[rocktivity]

48. And Romney can't call out Reid to reveal his "source"

because of everybody HE can be called out to reveal in return!

P.S. I had Reid tagged years ago!


rocktivity

[Llewlladdwr]

97. Why do you think that?

I can't see anything preventing Romney from demanding to know who is making the accusation. Hell, he can even play this for sympathy, claiming to be the target of malicious, anonymous, and false attacks.

[Plucketeer]

49. Checkmate Mittens

Your move!

[Vinca]

50. This will go down as the day Harry hit the hornet's nest.

[Zalatix]

113. With a flame thrower.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

52. Score one for our side!

Way to bring this back front and center in the media and with double the pressure.

Harry was the perfect one to make the statement, too.

[scheming daemons]

53. 2010 was a very difficult election year to be Dem leader in senate

... especially in a purple state.



.... and Reid won.



Don't fuck with Harry Reid

[ehrnst]

55. The wild card is McCain - who's seen his tax returns.

The only way around this is if McCain states that Romney paid taxes.

If no word from McCain - then Romney is pretty much guilty.

Then again, MCain hates Mitt...

[maindawg]

56. but Macain is an honest man

a dim witted tool who stumbled through life has but one honorable trait. He speaks his mind, sometimes.And when he does, he tells the truth. He knows right from wrong. He will reveal the truth. Or he will defer to reveal the truth while revealing the truth.

[NYC Liberal]

62. Didn't McCain already say "there's nothing in them"?

Nobody cared, nobody bought it.

[Ruby the Liberal]

66. McCain seeing his taxes is a misnomer.

He hired a consulting firm to vet his candidates. "McCain" wouldn't have seen the first 1040. First, he isn't going to wade through 23 years of 500+ page returns. Second, plausible deniability is in place, and NDAs would have been signed.

[ehrnst]

122. He did state that the tax returns "were not the reason he didn't pick Romney."

So he has publicly commented on what was in them.

[SlimJimmy]

125. McCain has already addressed this.

(CNN) – Sen. John McCain, whose 2008 presidential campaign reviewed Mitt Romney's tax records as they considered him to be the vice presidential running mate, said Tuesday he can "personally vouch" that there was "nothing disqualifying" in the tax returns of the presumptive GOP presidential nominee.

...

"We're getting into areas now that are improper for me to talk about," McCain added. "Because when people gave us all those records we agreed to confidentiality. The only reason I'm saying what I'm saying now is because of the scurrilous, scurrilous Chicago style sleaze intimations with no basis in fact that there might have been something wrong with his tax returns, which is disgraceful."

Asked again if he knew if Romney had in fact paid taxes over the years, McCain responded, "Oh please. I am not going to get into that kind of conversation. All I can tell you, and I will tell you again, there was nothing disqualifying in his tax returns. And that is a fact."

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/07/17/mccain-says-nothing-disqualifying-in-romneys-tax-records/

[Ruby the Liberal]

130. Disqualifying and distasteful are two different things.

No question that Romney's taxes are legal. (Right down to the Amnesty in 2009, if he chose it - thats what "Amnesty" means). Romney pays more than I make in a decade for the team of tax attorneys and CPAs that manage this and ensure no loophole is left behind.

That said, there is a difference between "disqualifying" (illegal) and "impolitic" (just a really, really bad idea if you want to be POTUS).

Just ask Anthony Weiner and Rep (name escapes me, R-NY) who both had to resign the US House for semi nekkid pictures on Twitter and Craigslist, respectfully. Not illegal, but career killers due to bad judgment.

In Rmoney's case, that judgment was greed, not skin.

McCain was given the assessments from his team and he chose Palin.

[SlimJimmy]

132. That's not what Sen Reid is implying though. He is saying that Romney didn't pay taxes for ten

years. I think McCain tried to address that in his remarks. He had to be careful how he worded it because of the nondisclosure agreement. I don't think Romney is clean on this issue, but I'm not convinced this has legs. I guess we'll see what happens in the next few weeks.

[nanabugg]

137. One Republican looking at the tax returns of another Republican?? Yeah, right. nt

[B Calm]

58. Now if we can persuade the news

to talk about it!

I think the press wants a close election. . .

[hue]

59. Fantastic move!! K&R

[libodem]

61. That'll show 'em a thing or two

Thank you Harry, for standing up and speaking out.

[longship]

63. Of course Reid knows the rope-a-dope

He was a golden gloves boxer in his youth.

Poor Romney. On this, he's screwn, no matter what.

[Raine]

67. Pure Genius! nt

[mucifer]

69. There will be many republicans who will be impressed with the greed

and give him even more support. There are a lot of people out there who love the idea of being wealthy beyond belief, not pay any taxes and watch others suffer.

Yes, I am very cynical.

[scheming daemons]

79. Those people were going to vote for Romney no matter what. They're not the ones we're after.

[TheMadMonk]

88. And many of those have not a pot in which to piss. /nt

[SleeplessinSoCal]

70. He'd be in a box IF we had a reliable free press. We don't. I fear that money trumps truth.

[rustydog]

73. The old Fox news trick: "Some people say...!"

[ProSense]

74. It was a

twofer: Bain and tax returns.

Really beautiful!

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

76. K&R

[geckosfeet]

77. But - Harry did not claim that he knew that - just that he heard it.

Heard it from someone who would be very likely to have been bragged to by the miTT.

You know - it's a variant of "some people say..."

[pnwmom]

118. Right. So he's not a liar, no matter what happens. n/t

[geckosfeet]

136. Zactly

[ecstatic]

78. Hopefully the MSM will pick this up

I'm a little behind, but haven't heard it mentioned on MSNBC yet.

[applegrove]

80. Could be that Reid is being baited by the GOP. Stranger things have happened.

[scheming daemons]

81. It'll force the returns to see the light of day...

Even if they're legal, they'll show whatever it is he's been trying to hide all this time.

[applegrove]

82. I agree we should see them. I somehow doubt that they are filled with bad stuff for Romney. He

wanted to be president back when he ran against Kennedy for the Senate in the 1990s. I think the gop has been trying to bait Democrats into insisting that their is something untoward in those tax returns. Other than paying a lower rate of tax than his secretary - I really doubt there is anything there. So I hope the Dems don't bite hard. Sure he should put his tax returns out there. But the Democrats should be staid about how they ask him to do it.

[scheming daemons]

84. It will show this:

At a minimum:

- He made a LOT of money

- He paid less in taxes (percentage wise) than most middle-class Americans

- He put his money into offshore accounts, instead of American banks.



And while that won't matter to right-wing voters, it will matter to independent voters.


And keep in mind, that is the bare MINIMUM that it will show.


At the VERY LEAST, it will reinforce the "Richie Rich" image for Romney. At the other end, it might be a veritable treasure trove of goodies for our side.

[DeYanko]

83. Morman Church Tithing

Along with not paying any taxes, I suspect he has been shorting the Morman Church as well.........

[protect our future]

86. FYI: Mormons are encouraged to

give more than 10 percent. Members can specify how their contributions over 10 percent are to be used; for example, for humanitarian aid, temple construction, etc.

And as for Harry Reid: Give 'em Hell, Harry! This Mormon vs. Mormon action must be having an impact on LDS leadership. Not that I would want any Mormon heads to explode or anything, but I relish picturing a little chaos and confusion occurring in Mormon VIP circles.

[Kalidurga]

89. Excellent..

The more speculation the better. Get people asking questions. "Is he lying?" "Do I pay more in taxes than a rich guy?" "What is he hiding?" The only person that can answer those questions is Romney and the only way he can do it is to release the returns.

It is never good politically when people are questioning if you are lying or not. Yes we expect promises to be made and broken. But, no one expects a politician to be lying about if they paid taxes or not.

[Skip Intro]

90. Reid used Romney's dead father to attack him?

I'm sorry. That's just wrong.

Hello gutter.

[scheming daemons]

91. George Romney had integrity. Mitt Romney does not. That's the point.

He is such a lesser man than his father.

[Skip Intro]

92. Unbelieveably offensive to use his dead father as a means of attack.

Pretty callous if you think about it for like a few seconds. Imagine Boehner attacking Obama by referencing Obama's dead father.

Just wrong, no matter the party.

Again, hello gutter.

[scheming daemons]

104. No, not really. Holding a candidate up to the ideals of his father is not callous.

"Your father was a great man. You should try to be like him."

[Skip Intro]

110. No. Reid isn't giving advice, he seeks political gain from this.

Maybe to throw Romney off, or try to enrage him, I don't know.

But he's not trying to give advice to Romney, not via the press.

He's using Romney's dead father to achieve some political advantage.

And it is wrong. It crosses a line. Dead parents should be off limits in political warfare. Period.

[veganlush]

119. he's dead,

That's not Reid's fault. your "dead" hang-up is a non issue.

[Capt. Obvious]

121. Your concern trolling is funny

Dead people now out of campaigns.

Founding fathers - out.

Kennedy - out

Reagan - out.

Nixon - out.

Jesus - out.

[scheming daemons]

127. you're responding to a PUMA who never got over it

He thinks we forgot who he was.

Some of us haven't.

[protect our future]

93. More FYI: The LDS Church would have

records showing how much Romney gave to the church for the years in question but I don't believe it would have copies of Romney's tax returns. The tithe that a member pays -- the 10 percent -- is based on whatever that member deems fair, as I understand it. There is no set rule stating that a member must pay 10 percent of gross income, or net income, or trust income that goes directly to a third party by check from the trust, or whatever, etc. Some members probably give 10 percent of their gross and others 10 percent of their net. Others might give 10 percent of what's left after deductions and after every possible loophole has been utilized. Which category might Romney fall into? Just a thought, but anyone curious enough and persistent enough and capable enough might want to do some digging.

[Llewlladdwr]

95. I'm not so sure.

How does Reid reply when the Romney campaign says he's a liar and demands he produce his source?

If Reid refuses it looks bad for him, right? He almost has to name names.

And once the source is identified he or she will be destroyed credibility-wise.

I just don't see this as a game-changer.

[Ruby the Liberal]

96. "some people say"

Check and mate.

[Llewlladdwr]

98. I think it's gonna take more than that for this to grow legs.

I mean cripes, there's already a twitter tag about Reid being a pederast.

One of the most popular tweets is along the lines of "some people say Harry Reid is..."

YMMV.

[Ruby the Liberal]

99. Thanks for your concern.

[Llewlladdwr]

100. We'll know one way or the other in a couple of weeks, eh?

This is gonna be a long Autumn...

[ehrnst]

123. YEP - that's how FoxNews does it. Give them some of their own medicine. (nt)

[scheming daemons]

105. Simple. "My source asked for anonymity to protect him. He can come forward if he wishes. However..

... you can put this all to bed by releasing your tax forms."

[Llewlladdwr]

106. The reply to which would be "you don't have a source..."

"...and you're a liar. If you aren't lying produce your source."

Kinda "he said, he said", don't you think?

[Marr]

109. Eh... no? The man is refusing to release his tax returns.

How can he indignantly insist that Reid reveal his source, when he could (supposedly) just prove him a liar by releasing his tax returns?

[Llewlladdwr]

111. Because Reid is making the accusation. He's going to have to back it up for this to have legs.

Romney doesn't have to prove Reid is a liar. All he has to do is make the accusation. Reid is going to have to prove that he isn't lying.

That means he'll have to reveal his source. Who will then be destroyed by the media.

Or this just turns into "he said, he said" and drops off the radar by this weekend.

[DearAbby]

116. Romney is asking for this speculation

he made a calculated decision...There is nothing we can imagine, than what is actually in those Returns...otherwise Romney would release them and get it over with....If there wasn't anything damaging..Reid doesn't have to name anyone...Romney expected this when he made his decision.

[Ruby the Liberal]

129. You are missing something pretty critical here.

Exhibit A - this is a pile of papers.

Person 1 says the papers say ABC.

Person 2 says the papers say XYZ.

It matters not who person 1 and person 2 are. Rmoney isn't stupid enough to play this hand with "who said that rumor" because it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if 1 person says it or 20 say it.

All that matters is what Exhibit A actually has in them.

[drm604]

102. Has Romney denied this?

If not, why not?

[Coyotl]

103. Unless, of course, it is a dirty trick played on Harry

Of course, in politics, there are no liars

[Pryderi]

112. I'm not sure how it could be a dirty trick, unless Willard releases the returns to prove it. If

Romney releases his tax returns from 2002-2012 and it shows he did pay taxes, Harry can say, "Oh, he must have meant the other 10 years from 1992-2002.

[krispos42]

108. Well, there's a headline I thought I'd never see.

About damn time, too!

[DallasNE]

114. This Is Lose-Lose For Romney

Even if the story ends up being flawed because Romney had a number of years where he paid less than 10% but more than zero those years would be very hurtful anyway. And what would happen if Romney had even a single year where he "paid" a negative rate due to using tax credits.

[Zyzafyx]

115. Mormon trumps Moron

, Harry!

[rrHeretic]

120. When I saw your title

I thought you were going to say Reid went into the hospital to get a set of balls.

[leftyohiolib]

126. you forget these are republicons not people. mitt will refuse to show them SAY it's a lie and the

republicon base will cheer him for it, for being tough on dems when they lie

[scheming daemons]

138. you forget that the republican base doesnt matter

What they think doesn't matter because they are voting for Romney no matter what.

This is about independent voters

[EC]

128. He did exactly what the repubs

did with "He's not American" well, he can prove it by showing his Birth Certificate BS. Rmoney can prove he paid taxes by showing his returns.

[Zyzafyx]

135. Jon isn't getting it

Kick!