Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
128 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
So... **TWO** GODDAMNED MINUTES?? (Original Post) Blue_Tires Apr 2018 OP
Well...seriously...it was the middle of the afternoon... CincyDem Apr 2018 #1
That manager must have Spidey Sense or something... Blue_Tires Apr 2018 #3
Otherwise Starbucks' black female COO would have Hortensis Apr 2018 #123
No worries Blue_Tires JustAnotherGen Apr 2018 #2
Thanks for the Green Book comment.. disillusioned73 Apr 2018 #12
These times JustAnotherGen Apr 2018 #21
I hear ya.. disillusioned73 Apr 2018 #23
For black travelers in the '40s - '70s BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #34
Wealthy / Affluent black folks in Cadillacs JustAnotherGen Apr 2018 #38
This is why my mother STAUNCHLY REFUSED BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #47
Oh my goodness! JustAnotherGen Apr 2018 #54
My mom used to talk about "Chicken Bone Beach" BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #59
This is fascinating history- dawg day Apr 2018 #125
Not just "where to sleep" BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #127
Ruth and the Green Book mia Apr 2018 #62
Thank you for posting. madaboutharry Apr 2018 #64
You're welcome! mia Apr 2018 #67
Thank you for posting! BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #65
I didn't know about "The Green Book" until today. mia Apr 2018 #68
When I was growing up in the '60s and '70s BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #71
I had a gay version of this when I was in college dsc Apr 2018 #94
It's pretty sad BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #98
It was mostly for eateries and clubs dsc Apr 2018 #101
Geez. I had no idea what a Green Book was until I Googled it. PatrickforO Apr 2018 #33
After the Emancipation in the mid-late 1860s post-Civil War BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #40
Reconstruction is what caused the KKK to happen FakeNoose Apr 2018 #73
Correct BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #76
New Green Book would be a great idea. nt Anon-C Apr 2018 #35
+1,000 malaise Apr 2018 #61
She's a dumb bigot, too Blue_Tires Apr 2018 #86
Publish one online or on an app, Ilsa Apr 2018 #89
Jeez. It takes me 5 minutes to decipher their damn menu. TheSmarterDog Apr 2018 #4
same here before i say the standard...just get me a cup of coffee dembotoz Apr 2018 #25
Yeah, I've loitered at the cash register longer than that catrose Apr 2018 #29
They look like typical office attired millennials MaryMagdaline Apr 2018 #5
And they are TRULY millennials BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #56
Yep! MaryMagdaline Apr 2018 #102
They also said the cops just came up and ordered them to leave ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #6
Police have no choice. If owner wants you off property they have to oblige MaryMagdaline Apr 2018 #11
She's not even the owner JustAnotherGen Apr 2018 #18
I'm not saying it would not otherwise have ended in a removal ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #22
The cops also radioed for a supervisor to show up. n/t PoliticAverse Apr 2018 #66
Police have a responsibility to assess the situation and ask relevant Witnesses uponit7771 Apr 2018 #44
They DO "have a choice" BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #63
I call massive BS... lame54 Apr 2018 #81
That doesn't apply to premises open to the public EffieBlack Apr 2018 #95
the police have a choice in making the arrest which in this case was without probable cause. MaryMagdaline Apr 2018 #99
They can't remove the person unless they are actually trespassing, regardless what the owner/manager EffieBlack Apr 2018 #106
Thank you! This is good information MaryMagdaline Apr 2018 #108
No problem! EffieBlack Apr 2018 #110
+1. nt tblue37 Apr 2018 #117
The Philly police should look bad. That Police Commissioner should be ashamed... Anon-C Apr 2018 #45
Not sure what was actually said ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #49
I know you won't see this but this is for other posters here BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #77
I can only hope this is the event that opens up the long-needed national discussion. Boomerproud Apr 2018 #7
If a white supremacist mercuryblues Apr 2018 #14
I'm looking for the JustAnotherGen Apr 2018 #20
Yeah, there's that. mountain grammy Apr 2018 #46
Are those the actual guys? Cracklin Charlie Apr 2018 #8
Good one! mcar Apr 2018 #28
I have a 4 yr old and gdaughter and you are sooooo right. efhmc Apr 2018 #60
Holy shit. mercuryblues Apr 2018 #9
Something was very wrong with that manager. She is obviously a hateful racist bigot. OregonBlue Apr 2018 #10
The fact that she has not come forward with any evidence of MaryMagdaline Apr 2018 #15
There seemed to be other customers in the coffee shop Grammy23 Apr 2018 #31
My husband's ex-wife was Native American, liberalhistorian Apr 2018 #37
"she'd have been out numbered by the customers who knew otherwise." BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #79
I think there were customers heard on the video Grammy23 Apr 2018 #116
The guy who they were meeting BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #120
I've ready very similar stories by African Americans MaryMagdaline Apr 2018 #103
In other words... BigMin28 Apr 2018 #26
I wonder if this is the tip of her iceberg. zentrum Apr 2018 #41
See my post #118 below. nt tblue37 Apr 2018 #119
Just look at the interview she did. No answers. JI7 Apr 2018 #43
Something was very wrong with the police too. hunter Apr 2018 #58
Her black co-workers say she harassed them (the co-workers) and that she had also thrown other tblue37 Apr 2018 #118
Horrendous. zentrum Apr 2018 #124
Racist shitheads are everywhere arent they? ismnotwasm Apr 2018 #13
They've always been there, they just all started coming out in the open ooky Apr 2018 #19
It makes me so mad and so sad. I am shocked to discover how many hateful bigots there are in America OregonBlue Apr 2018 #88
And cellphone cameras EffieBlack Apr 2018 #96
Daily News Article for the non Twitter folks JustAnotherGen Apr 2018 #16
And the cops did NOT read them their Miranda Rights per that interview BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #17
And the Constitution EffieBlack Apr 2018 #97
Here is the latest BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #100
"There was no specific policy regarding the crime of Defiant Trespass" EffieBlack Apr 2018 #109
Here is what should be included in any "new policy" BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #126
That woman was probably a marshmallow Baitball Blogger Apr 2018 #24
2 minutes? 2 fcking minutes? mcar Apr 2018 #27
Oh my God I did not know the woman never spoke to them MaryMagdaline Apr 2018 #30
"I remember Rizzo" BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #52
One of the most evil people in my lifetime MaryMagdaline Apr 2018 #115
Since it's apparent this was an isolated, racist person... Chakaconcarne Apr 2018 #32
I agree. While I never go to Starbucks, but only because of personal preference, Stonepounder Apr 2018 #51
Guess you missed this other "isolated racist person" BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #53
It wasn't isolated, this is sad really I think Starbucks is a company that tries uponit7771 Apr 2018 #92
I am floored if that timeline is accurate blake2012 Apr 2018 #36
FFS...nt SidDithers Apr 2018 #39
The manager probably mistook them for someone else that had been there awhile Blue_Adept Apr 2018 #42
That neighborhood (Rittenhouse Square) is only 3% black BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #74
OK, no Starbucks coffee for me. lark Apr 2018 #48
that's them? are you sure there weren't some crips or bloods standing behind them? kaotikross Apr 2018 #50
In defense of the store manager... mark67 Apr 2018 #55
Even if it was five minutes or ten minutes, that manager wasn't aware of Starbucks' policy.... George II Apr 2018 #57
Starbucks policy is different depending on the store location oberliner Apr 2018 #69
Problem is, none of these "policies" get posted in these Starbucks BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #82
never heard of the paper bag test fescuerescue Apr 2018 #114
These two should end up owning their own Starbucks location. BobTheSubgenius Apr 2018 #70
That's not even time enough to figure out what to order. MineralMan Apr 2018 #72
Take the damn locks off the door. Have some humanity Pepsidog Apr 2018 #75
Sigh. You haven't encountered the people who smash toilets and paint the walls with shit. hunter Apr 2018 #83
Yea I get it and feel bad for the small owner but Starbucks is a big boy and can handle vandals Pepsidog Apr 2018 #85
Not only that, here in Canada, one cannot use Starbucks restroom if you are akbacchus_BC Apr 2018 #122
"No way a paying customer will vandalise the facilities!" BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #128
The friend they were meeting told cops theyd go somewhere else, cops said No, too late EffieBlack Apr 2018 #78
+1 uponit7771 Apr 2018 #93
These men acted with class and dignity in the face of ignorance. Pepsidog Apr 2018 #80
Figured as much. Afromania Apr 2018 #84
Yeah, when you frame it that way. But they did hang around griloco Apr 2018 #87
Like dog years differ from human ones, evidently racist minutes are different from regular ones. betsuni Apr 2018 #90
oh I thought this would be about Stormy Daniels and Trump milestogo Apr 2018 #91
No, in that case, the headline would have liberalhistorian Apr 2018 #105
So. Does this mean if I walk into a Starbucks Horse with no Name Apr 2018 #104
Are you black, brown or white? EffieBlack Apr 2018 #111
The timeline blows any claim the former manager makes out of the water. Blue_true Apr 2018 #107
A perfect illustration of why cops don't "have to" arrest people just because the manager says so EffieBlack Apr 2018 #112
Yep. Blue_true Apr 2018 #113
This is so horrible. Those two guys were waiting for a friend akbacchus_BC Apr 2018 #121

CincyDem

(6,363 posts)
1. Well...seriously...it was the middle of the afternoon...
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 09:38 AM
Apr 2018


...how much longer could it take for the manager to know these guys are black.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
3. That manager must have Spidey Sense or something...
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 09:42 AM
Apr 2018

It does explain why Starbucks corporate has been very proactive in getting out in front of this incident... They knew this was coming out sooner or later.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
123. Otherwise Starbucks' black female COO would have
Fri Apr 20, 2018, 07:02 AM
Apr 2018

buried the whole thing because, hey, trendy urban-clientele Starbucks is really just a redneck Denny's at heart?

Maybe give them some credit? Whether this took 2 minutes or 20 and whether it came out or not (and that entirely predictably happened in about "two minutes" itself), once upper management heard what happened (but 2 minutes???!!!), that shop manager's ass was grass.

Wonder what kind of job she'll be able to get after this. Employers google names these days.

JustAnotherGen

(31,828 posts)
2. No worries Blue_Tires
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 09:40 AM
Apr 2018

Someone will be along any minute now to dodge, deflect, and defer but for the record?

Yeah - two minutes equals 'loitering'?

Two minutes equals that manager 'don't like the black folk' and fucked up. That's what two minutes tells me.

Now they will say - their word against hers.

Well yeah - I take their word for it. I don't take hers. She's a lying bigot and they are the good guys and I will not back down from that. Oh - and a business meeting. A business meeting. Really?

This is why we need a new Green book. For real. I'm on it.

 

disillusioned73

(2,872 posts)
12. Thanks for the Green Book comment..
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 09:46 AM
Apr 2018

it prompted me to the google - i was not aware of such a thing.. very interesting, will definitely read up on it..

 

disillusioned73

(2,872 posts)
23. I hear ya..
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 09:57 AM
Apr 2018

I was deluded in my younger years.. my parents kept me & my brother fairly shielded - but I learned in the real world pretty quickly in the 90's.. although I am not black, I'd venture to guess hispanics probably benefited from the "green book" as well..

BumRushDaShow

(129,096 posts)
34. For black travelers in the '40s - '70s
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 10:11 AM
Apr 2018

it was really a survival guide.

vimeo.com/146908911



Growing up, my next door neighbor (who would have been in his 100s now) was originally from Tennessee and he would drive down there several times a year. He also loved new cars and would get a new one every 3 years (e.g., the last one before he died was I think an '80s model Chrysler LaBaron with landau roof). Whenever he drove below the Mason-Dixon line however, he said he kept a chaffeur's cap in his glove compartment as he would regularly be stopped for driving a late model car.

JustAnotherGen

(31,828 posts)
38. Wealthy / Affluent black folks in Cadillacs
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 10:18 AM
Apr 2018

My grandfather was one - and it was necessary for road trips. He needed to be able to sleep in the car.

My dad and his older brother were Green Book users while in the Army - my dad in particular the first time he was stationed at Fort Dix. The NJ 'places' to go were invaluable to a black Military Officer. The only thing in that copy that wasn't there was 'chicken bone beach' in atlantic city - but folks learned that via word of mouth.

BumRushDaShow

(129,096 posts)
47. This is why my mother STAUNCHLY REFUSED
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 10:31 AM
Apr 2018

to go anywhere "below the Mason-Dixon Line". We had to sortof drag her on the plane to go to a cousin's wedding in Atlanta but then she said she would be willing to "fly over it". My father had family in Chattanooga and would go down there occasionally but always flew.

The only place we would do long-distance driving was up to NH where my mother's sister lived with my uncle and cousins.

And yes, it's funny but I have an old pic of my mom on Chicken Bone Beach from ~1932! One of my uncles (my father's sister's husband) had family who lived in AC for a couple generations.

JustAnotherGen

(31,828 posts)
54. Oh my goodness!
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 10:47 AM
Apr 2018

My parents met in 1967 - my mom's dad got her a gig at the officers club for the summer. My parents met there (dad's second time at Fort Dix)- and they went to CB Beach a lot(mixed couple). Asbury Park was 2nd. It's truly a 'jersey' thing that I was surprised to learn about after my dad died. I 'knew' they went to AC a lot that summer - I did not understand WHY.

Yeah - my dad was a 'Bama born and raised. They - well - 'they endured'.

BumRushDaShow

(129,096 posts)
59. My mom used to talk about "Chicken Bone Beach"
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 10:57 AM
Apr 2018

and one of the times we were in AC, we asked what streets it was near (since we laughed about recognizing the "Monopoly" street names). Eventually found out it was around Missouri Ave.

They have a whole historical society devoted to it - https://www.chickenbonebeach.org/black-history

I remember in the early-'70s after my father died, my aunt (his sister) made sure to rent a cabana near our hotel, mainly as a reminder for when they could not do so back in the '40s, including not being allowed on the beach anywhere near where we were staying at the time.

dawg day

(7,947 posts)
125. This is fascinating history-
Fri Apr 20, 2018, 09:13 AM
Apr 2018

How resilient and thoughtful they were then! It's sad they had to be that way over "where to sleep tonight".

BumRushDaShow

(129,096 posts)
127. Not just "where to sleep"
Fri Apr 20, 2018, 09:32 AM
Apr 2018

but where to buy gas, where to eat, where to go to the bathroom, where to sit in a theater (in many movie theaters even in the north, blacks had to sit up in the balcony in the old-style movie theaters), what beach you were allowed on, and even what cemetery you could be buried in (yes, cemeteries were segregated).


<...>

Until the 1950s, about 90 percent of all public cemeteries in the U.S. employed a variety of racial restrictions. Until recently, to enter a cemetery was to experience, as a University of Pennsylvania geography professor put it, the “spatial segregation of the American dead.” Even when a religious cemetery was not entirely race restricted, different races were buried in separate parts of the cemetery, with whites usually getting the more attractive plots.

Some white Americans did fight against this policy. Abolitionists, such as Thaddeus Stevens, a radical Republican and chair of the House Ways and Means Committee during the Civil War, insisted on being buried in a nonsegregated burial ground. Stevens chose to be buried in an interracial cemetery in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, after his death in 1868. The issue of interracial eternal repose was so important to him that he wrote it into his own epitaph. His tombstone read: “I repose in this quiet and secluded spot, not from any natural preference for solitude; but, finding other cemeteries limited as to race, by charter rules, I have chosen this that I may illustrate in my death, the principles which I advocated through a long life, equality of man before the Creator.”



From the 1920s through the 1950s, courts did not consider cemeteries to be “public accommodations,” so cemeteries did not qualify for special civil rights protections. But in May 1948, the Supreme Court ruled in Shelley v. Kraemer that state enforcement of racially restrictive covenants in land deeds violated the equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment. This had a major impact on the ability of blacks to buy houses in white neighborhoods, but it also affected the de-segregation of cemeteries. Whites-only restrictions on cemetery plots could no longer hold up in court. As a sign of the slowly changing times, several interracial cemeteries appeared in the 1950s. Charles Diggs Sr., a black undertaker and florist in Detroit, bought land to create an interracial cemetery just outside the city in 1953. Mount Holiness Cemetery in Butler, New Jersey, also promoted itself as an interracial cemetery in black newspapers like the New York Age in the 1950s.

But since blacks and whites continued to live and worship separately, such initiatives were few and far between.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/atlas_obscura/2017/01/16/america_s_segregated_cemeteries_are_important_troves_of_forgotten_black.html

mia

(8,361 posts)
67. You're welcome!
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 11:23 AM
Apr 2018

Thank you for sharing my delight at finding the book.
I'm going to share it with my grandchildren.

BumRushDaShow

(129,096 posts)
65. Thank you for posting!
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 11:23 AM
Apr 2018


I had stumbled on that last year I think but never had chance to sit and listen to the whole thing. Explains why my parents always had us look for Essos when doing road trips.

mia

(8,361 posts)
68. I didn't know about "The Green Book" until today.
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 11:29 AM
Apr 2018

I was glad to find this children's book on the subject.

BumRushDaShow

(129,096 posts)
71. When I was growing up in the '60s and '70s
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 11:36 AM
Apr 2018

we never drove down south (my mother refused to go below the Mason Dixon line) so I don't recall having one in the house but had heard about it.

dsc

(52,162 posts)
94. I had a gay version of this when I was in college
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 08:35 PM
Apr 2018

seeing one of them in the Civil Rights Museum while holding a gay version of the book was rather jarring.

PatrickforO

(14,577 posts)
33. Geez. I had no idea what a Green Book was until I Googled it.
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 10:10 AM
Apr 2018

That just sucks. Not the book, but the fact there had to be a book in the first place.

Quite a ways yet to go to achieve the dream, and we seem to be walking backwards now.

BumRushDaShow

(129,096 posts)
40. After the Emancipation in the mid-late 1860s post-Civil War
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 10:22 AM
Apr 2018

blacks could generally move freely, buy land, and even run for office - including Congress and back then there were black congressmen. That was "Reconstruction".

Then OMG that couldn't be!!!! So up pops Jim Crow and that was the end of that. Until the '50s/'60s. We make progress again, can buy land, sit in a restaurant, run for congress and mayor or whatever, and then OMG that couldn't be!!!! Back to modern Jim Crow except now he's "James Crow Jr., Esq", Lee Atwater style.

Like Jurassic Park's imploring about how "Life finds a way...", in America, "Racism finds a way...".

FakeNoose

(32,645 posts)
73. Reconstruction is what caused the KKK to happen
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 11:46 AM
Apr 2018

The white people got scared and said "Holy shit, what are we gonna do about these uppity POCs?"

Southerners who joined the KKK after the Civil War, didn't consider themselves racists before the war. Things were different then, in the old days a white person couldn't be convicted of harming a POC. So during Reconstruction they found it necessary to wear hoods and keep their identities secret. It's not right, but that's how it happened.

That same fear occurs nowadays when a retail manager sees 2 POCs walking into the store together. He thinks "It must be a hold-up or something. I'd better call the police, just in case."

BumRushDaShow

(129,096 posts)
76. Correct
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 11:56 AM
Apr 2018

And that's when the Jim Crow laws came into effect - just like the stuff you see happening now with ALEC "laws" promoted by the teabaggers - i.e., the KKK in suits and ties.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
86. She's a dumb bigot, too
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 03:11 PM
Apr 2018

ironically she could have waited a bit longer then called 911 and told the cops that they were being vulgar, lewd or she thought she saw one of them flash a weapon... She would have gotten a MUCH wider benefit of the doubt like Zimmerman...

catrose

(5,068 posts)
29. Yeah, I've loitered at the cash register longer than that
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 10:08 AM
Apr 2018

trying to figure out which 9 adjectives I want in my small--no, now I have to figure out what they call their sizes--coffee.

Being from the South, I immediately went to RACISM on hearing the story, but the kicker for me was that their friend arrived while the cops were there. That should have diffused the situation--Oh see, they were waiting for somebody, and here he is [and he's white!]. But it didn't. And now 2 minutes of loitering?

Wishing these guys much future prosperity.

BumRushDaShow

(129,096 posts)
56. And they are TRULY millennials
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 10:48 AM
Apr 2018

and dress just like my millennial nephews who are around their age. It's a "uniform".

ExciteBike66

(2,358 posts)
6. They also said the cops just came up and ordered them to leave
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 09:44 AM
Apr 2018

instead of asking what happened, etc.

Makes the police look bad.

MaryMagdaline

(6,855 posts)
11. Police have no choice. If owner wants you off property they have to oblige
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 09:46 AM
Apr 2018

The arrest, however, is inexcusable.

ExciteBike66

(2,358 posts)
22. I'm not saying it would not otherwise have ended in a removal
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 09:54 AM
Apr 2018

I understand trespass very well (you should see my other thread, almost 500 posts!).

That said, my point is that the men are saying the cops didn't bother asking them any questions, but just started off with an order. This is not "community policing" as I would understand it.

Before these two men spoke out, I was under the impression that the cops asked them the situation before starting to give orders. That is why now I think this article makes the cop's initial response look bad. The resulting arrest might have legally been valid for trespass, but I would think the cops would actually ask questions prior to just arresting people.

That said, the cops did stand around talking to the guys for 6-7 minutes. Perhaps a more complete record of the conversation will surface.

uponit7771

(90,347 posts)
44. Police have a responsibility to assess the situation and ask relevant Witnesses
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 10:28 AM
Apr 2018

Last edited Thu Apr 19, 2018, 08:41 PM - Edit history (1)

BumRushDaShow

(129,096 posts)
63. They DO "have a choice"
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 11:12 AM
Apr 2018

Supposedly "Community Policing" had been instituted here in Philly after President Clinton setup block grants for it in the '90s (this is what funded the "bike cops" that you see in the Starbucks video), and then folks might recall when our former Police Commissioner (Charles Ramsey, who was Commissioner in other cities like D.C. as well) was on President Obama's Policing Task Force back ~2014, and that group took a look at the situation provided recommendations for change.





Sadly, a few years later, Ramsey pretty much threw up his hands.

lame54

(35,293 posts)
81. I call massive BS...
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 12:16 PM
Apr 2018

"They don't have a choice"
I hear that excuse all the time
It's a fallacy

Cops don't HAVE to do anything

They make choices ALL the time

They arrest some and give others warnings

They put some in the back of their car and for others they pour their weed out on the side of the road(or keep it) and let them go

Their job is to be peace keepers not arresting robots




 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
95. That doesn't apply to premises open to the public
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 08:36 PM
Apr 2018

Under the trespass law the men were charged with breaking, a manager does not have the right to eject people for any reason. If the premises is open to the public, if a person complies with all of the lawful conditions imposed on the general public to enter or remain, they are not trespassers and may stay, regardless what the manager says.

In this case, the men had not violated any lawful condition - the no buy no sit thing wasn't a lawful condition since it was not store policy, no one else in the store seemed to be aware of it and it had not been applied to anyone else.

And the police DID have a choice. Not only were the police required to determine they had probable cause to believe the men had committed a crime before making an arrest - which they did not do - they also have wide discretion not to make an arrest even if they find probable cause. In this instance the police did not make any effort to find probable cause. Because the manager said so doesn't count.

MaryMagdaline

(6,855 posts)
99. the police have a choice in making the arrest which in this case was without probable cause.
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 09:00 PM
Apr 2018

Do they have a
choice not to remove someone when the owner (owner's rep) says she wants them out? I (sadly) know people who have been given no trespass notices by (mostly) bars.

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
106. They can't remove the person unless they are actually trespassing, regardless what the owner/manager
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 09:54 PM
Apr 2018

Last edited Thu Apr 19, 2018, 10:24 PM - Edit history (1)

wants them to do.

Under Pennsylvania trespass law (which is consistent with the laws of most other states), a person is guilty of defiant trespassing if, "knowing that he is not licensed or privileged to do so, he enters or remains in any place" after being given notice that he is trespassing by direct communication to him, a posted notice, or a fence or other barrier designed to exclude visitors. HOWEVER, if the premises are open to the public and the person has complied with "all lawful conditions imposed on access to or remaining in the premises," the person is NOT trespassing.

This means that if a person is in an establishment open to the public and follows all of the rules that the establishment has set regarding access and use of the premises, they have a right to enter and stay there and the owner/manager has no right or authority to eject them. If the person is not trespassing under the law, the police are not required - and, in fact, are not allowed - to remove them, regardless how much the owner or manager wants them gone.

The trespass notices you've seen probably involved someone violating some rule of the establishment - drinking too much, fighting, disorderly conduct, etc.


http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/LI/CT/HTM/18/00.035.003.000..HTM

Anon-C

(3,430 posts)
45. The Philly police should look bad. That Police Commissioner should be ashamed...
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 10:28 AM
Apr 2018

...when he tried to justify horrible policing by talking about these men's attitude upon arrest and the fact they slighted the cops by suggesting they make about $40K a year.



ExciteBike66

(2,358 posts)
49. Not sure what was actually said
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 10:33 AM
Apr 2018

since the two men don't mention the $40k" thing in any article I have read.

That said, never a good idea to try to insult the police, even if they are being dicks.

Boomerproud

(7,955 posts)
7. I can only hope this is the event that opens up the long-needed national discussion.
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 09:45 AM
Apr 2018

The more information, the worse those employees and officers look.

mercuryblues

(14,532 posts)
14. If a white supremacist
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 09:47 AM
Apr 2018

walking into a church and killing 9 black people didn't open up a discussion, this won't.

mountain grammy

(26,623 posts)
46. Yeah, there's that.
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 10:30 AM
Apr 2018

The "forgiveness angle" always gets white publicity so we can "move on," and that shuts down further discussion. Forgiveness doesn't erase the terror and savagery of the murders, and all insults and abuses committed in the name of white supremacy. I'm not saying victims shouldn't forgive, they should do whatever gets them through it, but the rest of us should remain outraged until real solutions are offered and put in place.

A Most American Terrorist.

https://www.gq.com/story/dylann-roof-making-of-an-american-terrorist

Cracklin Charlie

(12,904 posts)
8. Are those the actual guys?
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 09:45 AM
Apr 2018

They look less scary than my three year old granddaughter when she needs a snack.

Good grief.

mercuryblues

(14,532 posts)
9. Holy shit.
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 09:45 AM
Apr 2018

It takes me longer than that to find a table, get my coat off and decide what I want to order before getting in line.

Black men in a coffee shop = loitering and arrested.

the white woman who said she had been there for 2 hours without ordering = valued customer

OregonBlue

(7,754 posts)
10. Something was very wrong with that manager. She is obviously a hateful racist bigot.
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 09:45 AM
Apr 2018

I do however think Starbucks has done the right thing.

MaryMagdaline

(6,855 posts)
15. The fact that she has not come forward with any evidence of
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 09:48 AM
Apr 2018

Wrongdoing by the two young men is all we need to know. She's got nothing.

Grammy23

(5,810 posts)
31. There seemed to be other customers in the coffee shop
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 10:09 AM
Apr 2018

Who were witnesses to the whole event who were equally mystified why the two young men were arrested. So if she had tried to claim that they were ‘Disorderly’ or some other made up charge, she’d have been out numbered by the customers who knew otherwise. Thank goodness.

This is just another incident to add to a long list of things that happen to “people of color” in this country all the time. If you’re white, it has probably never happened to you. I remember hearing Damon Johns (of Shark Tank fame and wealthy black entrepreneur) speak about being watched suspiciously by store clerks as he shopped in Barney’s in NYC. This guy could have bought out the store with no problem, but his skin tones were the wrong hue so the clerks assumed he was a thief about to shoplift. He told the story to illustrate no matter who you are, if you are black, you may encounter unfair and racist treatment.

We have a lot to account for in the USA. We proudly claim we’re the Land of the Free, but that is just a slogan for many. We have a long ways to go before that is truly our gift to all who live here.

liberalhistorian

(20,818 posts)
37. My husband's ex-wife was Native American,
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 10:17 AM
Apr 2018

he's white; they lived in South Dakota. He said the only time he was ever followed around and asked for extra ID for a check was the time he was in his favorite health store in Rapid City, SD (in the Black Hills) with his ex-wife. He'd been going there for years with no issues, they'd never followed him or asked for extra ID. But when he went in with his ex, suddenly they were both followed around even when walking separately in the store, and they demanded extra ID for the check.

He left 200 bucks worth of merchandise on the counter and walked out, telling them exactly why. He was one of their regular, loyal customers, and their ignorant bigotry lost them probably hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars in future sales. Then again, most of the businesses in that state are the same way, especially in the Black Hills where anti-non-white racism is practically spoon-fed to whites from birth.

BumRushDaShow

(129,096 posts)
79. "she'd have been out numbered by the customers who knew otherwise."
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 12:03 PM
Apr 2018

And that is why the cops didn't take their statements, despite the Philadelphia Police Directive to do so, and manufactured a "charge" on the spot. And the cops never read them Miranda Rights either (per the GMA video) so that is also probably why the D.A.'s office threw the shit out.

Grammy23

(5,810 posts)
116. I think there were customers heard on the video
Fri Apr 20, 2018, 12:07 AM
Apr 2018

Asking over and over, “What did they do?” So the people who witnessed the incident knew something didn’t seem right. There were many irregularities about this whole incident apparently. Thankfully, the men were not charged but the trauma must have been terrible.

BumRushDaShow

(129,096 posts)
120. The guy who they were meeting
Fri Apr 20, 2018, 06:11 AM
Apr 2018

actually came in and asked what was going on and what did they do wrong? And then he got flustered and exclaimed that what the cops were doing was "discrimination". And he even offered to solve the situation on the spot by saying that he can will take them elsewhere and be done with it and the cop spat out that they were no longer "free to leave" and it was "too late".

EVERY move, from initially taking the call and asking for no other info about the "urgency" of the situation (which is what 911 is for, not for whining callers), to the sudden escalation by a dispatcher who takes "2 men not buying something" and transforms that into "a group of men causing a disturbance" (which implies a potential flash mob), to the 6-7 cops and a supervisor swarming the place, and then cops manufacturing a charge to make an arrest - THIS is a textbook case of FAIL.

MaryMagdaline

(6,855 posts)
103. I've ready very similar stories by African Americans
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 09:07 PM
Apr 2018

This is all too common. The evilness in calling police when she KNOWS how dangerous that is.

zentrum

(9,865 posts)
41. I wonder if this is the tip of her iceberg.
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 10:22 AM
Apr 2018

How often has this happened before at this Starbucks? These men are only being validated because someone caught the whole thing on camera. Without that, they would still have this arrest record.

It was an incredibly important business meeting for them—their whole life would have spun away if this thing had not been caught on that happenstance camera.

I think she needs more than firing. She needs to sit down opposite these two men and hear what they have to say, face to face.

tblue37

(65,403 posts)
118. Her black co-workers say she harassed them (the co-workers) and that she had also thrown other
Fri Apr 20, 2018, 12:56 AM
Apr 2018

black customers out in the past.

IOW, her bigotry was not a secret. But this time there was video, posted by a white woman, as well as a white friend who arrived during the arrest, and a bunch of outraged white customers as witnesses. Otherwise, it would have been ignored, just as her bigoted behavior had been ignored all along.

zentrum

(9,865 posts)
124. Horrendous.
Fri Apr 20, 2018, 09:02 AM
Apr 2018

Starbuck's is really being given a pass despite their "bias training day". The fact that she was kept on reveals a much larger corporate culture that can now be shown.

Hope this part of the story gets coverage too. Thanks of the info.

ismnotwasm

(41,989 posts)
13. Racist shitheads are everywhere arent they?
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 09:47 AM
Apr 2018

As are racist shithead apologists for racism who think they are all sub rosa.

ooky

(8,924 posts)
19. They've always been there, they just all started coming out in the open
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 09:52 AM
Apr 2018

when Trump validated their hatred.

OregonBlue

(7,754 posts)
88. It makes me so mad and so sad. I am shocked to discover how many hateful bigots there are in America
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 07:31 PM
Apr 2018

I thought we were past so much of this but it was just simmering under the surface. Thanks to Trump it has boiled to the surface. I guess in some ways it's better to know so that we can start dealing with it instead of pretending like it didn't exist but it's still shocking how many people feel this way. It really makes me feel so bad for my country.

BumRushDaShow

(129,096 posts)
17. And the cops did NOT read them their Miranda Rights per that interview
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 09:51 AM
Apr 2018

which violated the Philadelphia Police Department directive (pg.2) -

B.
Custodial Interrogation:
Express questioning, initiated by law enforcement officers, after a person has been taken into custody or otherwise deprived of their freedom of action in any significant way about a crime or suspected crime as well as any words or actions on the part of the law enforcement officers that are reasonably likely to elicit an incriminating response. All custodial interrogations shall be preceded by the issuance of the Miranda warning.


http://www.phillypolice.com/assets/directives/D5.23-InterviewsAndInterrogations.pdf

BumRushDaShow

(129,096 posts)
100. Here is the latest
Thu Apr 19, 2018, 09:01 PM
Apr 2018
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210515087#post55

The Mayor's recent statement this evening included this -

Updates:

  • The Police Advisory Commission is continuing to work with the PPD to arrange for interviews with officers involved and to access the data requested. PAC is also working with PCHR to identify and move forward on shared priorities throughout this process.

  • PPD: The Internal Affairs Division investigation should be completed by the middle of next week. The policy review determined that there was no specific policy regarding the crime of “Defiant Trespass,” aside from the PA Crimes Code and the PA Rules of Criminal Procedure. A policy regarding police response to calls for “Defiant Trespass” has been drafted, and is in the final stages of review. That process should be completed by the end of next week.

  • The Philadelphia Commission on Human Relations is in the early stages of its investigation. The Commission has issued a formal request for a series of documents from Starbucks regarding its policies and practices. The PCHR will analyze the information to see if there are intentional or unintentional discriminatory consequences to those policies and practices, and to determine what improvements can be made to ensure that such an incident does not happen again.


  • ###


    https://beta.phila.gov/2018-04-19-mayors-statement-on-the-starbucks-incident/


    Note the remarks about the "Defiant Trespass" and lack of policy regarding use of that.
     

    EffieBlack

    (14,249 posts)
    109. "There was no specific policy regarding the crime of Defiant Trespass"
    Thu Apr 19, 2018, 10:24 PM
    Apr 2018

    Interesting - this sounds like a dodge. I assume that the policy regarding police response to calls for "Defiant Trespass" is the same as the response expected on any call. But perhaps they are going to just be more specific and - this would be great - give the cops a higher duty to ensure that people are not being subjected to harassment and discrimination under the guise of being "trespassers."

    BumRushDaShow

    (129,096 posts)
    126. Here is what should be included in any "new policy"
    Fri Apr 20, 2018, 09:22 AM
    Apr 2018

    This is taken from the city's "Human Relations Commission" website (and they are one of the parties currently directed to review this incident) - http://www.phila.gov/HumanRelations/pages/default.aspx

    Public Accommodations Discrimination

    Philadelphia law protects an individual's basic right to fair and equal treatment by public accommodations.

    Public accommodations discrimination may happen when services are denied outright, such as when someone is refused admission to a public place.

    Discrimination may also occur in other ways, such as when someone is offered less favorable service than others or when a physical barrier or other issue makes services inaccessible to someone who has a disability.

    Examples of public accommodations include:

  • Hotels, motels, inns and other places of lodging;

  • Restaurant, bars and other places where food and/or drinks are served;

  • Casinos, theaters and other places of entertainment;

  • Stores, banks, barber/beauty shops and retail establishments;

  • Colleges, universities and educational institutions;

  • Medical clinics, homeless shelters and other social service providers;

  • Parks, health clubs and other centers for recreation or fitness centers; and

  • Museums and other places of public display.


  • All people are entitled to the full and equal enjoyment of services and facilities without discrimination or segregation because of:

  • Ancestry

  • Color

  • Disability

  • Domestic or Sexual Violence Victim Status

  • Ethnicity

  • Familial Status

  • Gender Identity

  • Marital Status

  • National Origin

  • Race

  • Religion

  • Retaliation

  • Sex

  • Sexual Orientation


  • http://www.phila.gov/HumanRelations/DiscriminationAndEnforcement/WhatIsDiscrimination/Pages/PublicAccommodationsDiscrimination.aspx


    Here is a table that explictly shows applicability (PDF) - http://www.phila.gov/HumanRelations/PDF/ChartOfLegalProtections.pdf

    There have been a multitude of incidents involving LBTGQ patrons (and notably Trans) as well, in downtown establishments, and particularly those who are POC, who get the double & triple wammy. I have a cousin who is in an inter-racial marriage and he and his husband experience all sorts of hassles.

    Baitball Blogger

    (46,736 posts)
    24. That woman was probably a marshmallow
    Thu Apr 19, 2018, 09:58 AM
    Apr 2018

    Marshmallow: A white woman who has an adverse learned behavior to minorities and loses their shit like marshmallows do when you apply a little heat.

    mcar

    (42,334 posts)
    27. 2 minutes? 2 fcking minutes?
    Thu Apr 19, 2018, 10:06 AM
    Apr 2018

    I've waited 20 for my friends to meet me at a restaurant and no one called the cops on me.

    Hmm, what could the difference be?

    MaryMagdaline

    (6,855 posts)
    30. Oh my God I did not know the woman never spoke to them
    Thu Apr 19, 2018, 10:08 AM
    Apr 2018

    They were just suddenly confronted by police! Doubly frightening, especially in a town like Philadelphia. I remember Rizzo

    BTW socially unacceptable to order before your meeting partner arrives. The manager does not know good manners when she sees it?

    Chakaconcarne

    (2,454 posts)
    32. Since it's apparent this was an isolated, racist person...
    Thu Apr 19, 2018, 10:09 AM
    Apr 2018

    The talk of boycott was a complete overreaction and stupid idea.

    Stonepounder

    (4,033 posts)
    51. I agree. While I never go to Starbucks, but only because of personal preference,
    Thu Apr 19, 2018, 10:35 AM
    Apr 2018

    many members of my extended family do. Seems to me that Starbucks has been in the forefront of coming down hard and fast on managers and/or employees who exhibit racist or other non-customer centric behavior toward customers.

    BumRushDaShow

    (129,096 posts)
    53. Guess you missed this other "isolated racist person"
    Thu Apr 19, 2018, 10:46 AM
    Apr 2018


    TEXT

    Shaun King

    @ShaunKing

    Here we go again.

    Meet Brandon Ward. He was @Starbucks - about to make a purchase - and needed to use the restroom.

    They denied him the code.

    He then finds a white man, Weston, who came out of the restroom.

    He had not made a purchase but they gave HIM the code.

    RACISM.
    11:05 AM - Apr 16, 2018

    http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-starbucks-bathroom-20180418-story.html


    Remember - these are just "snapshots" that made it on the news.

    Expect now that there will be "testers' out there in force to continue to establish how pervasive this is.

    Blue_Adept

    (6,399 posts)
    42. The manager probably mistook them for someone else that had been there awhile
    Thu Apr 19, 2018, 10:23 AM
    Apr 2018

    Under the guise of "they all look alike anyway."

    BumRushDaShow

    (129,096 posts)
    74. That neighborhood (Rittenhouse Square) is only 3% black
    Thu Apr 19, 2018, 11:54 AM
    Apr 2018

    so chances are.... Well you get my drift.

    Blacks more likely stop-and-frisk targets in Rittenhouse Square

    John N. Mitchell Tribune Staff Writer 22 hrs ago

    The neighborhood at the heart of last week’s Starbucks controversy is notorious for its high incidents of stop-and-frisks that have long targeted African-American men, according to a national organization dedicated to defending and expanding individual rights and personal freedoms.

    Just 3 percent of the residents in the tony Rittenhouse Square neighborhood that includes the Starbucks at 18th and Spruce streets are African American. However, 67 percent of the stops by police in that area in the first half of 2017 were of African Americans, according to the American Civil Liberties Union of Pennsylvania.

    The two other police service areas in that district, known as District 9, showed equally dissimilar stoppage rates. In one of the bordering police service areas, a staggering 84 percent of the stops took place in a neighborhood where African Americans represent just 16 percent of the residents.

    In 2010, the ACLU of Pennsylvania sued the city, contending that the Philadelphia Police Department’s use of stop-and-frisk was discriminatory. ACLU data showed that African Americans were far more likely to be stopped and frisked than whites. According to the ACLU, those stops were often without justifiable cause.

    http://www.phillytrib.com/news/blacks-more-likely-stop-and-frisk-targets-in-rittenhouse-square/article_7ad7af27-4e0e-5677-bffb-e6e990483c95.html

    lark

    (23,105 posts)
    48. OK, no Starbucks coffee for me.
    Thu Apr 19, 2018, 10:33 AM
    Apr 2018

    I won't even buy it at the grocery store anymore. I'm glad they are giving their ee diversity training, though.

    kaotikross

    (246 posts)
    50. that's them? are you sure there weren't some crips or bloods standing behind them?
    Thu Apr 19, 2018, 10:34 AM
    Apr 2018

    I expected 6IX9INE and Lil' Wayne. The guy on the left looks about as scary as Neil Tyson Degrasse. Dude on the right looks like he's somebody's Big Brother after school two nights a week. Ridiculous. If I were to see either one of these guys on TV doing "reading Rainbow" I wouldn't bat an eye. Wayne Brady is scarier on that Chappelle sketch.

    mark67

    (196 posts)
    55. In defense of the store manager...
    Thu Apr 19, 2018, 10:47 AM
    Apr 2018

    ...black folks are a scary bunch. Not like the rest of us.



    (Yeah, that's sarcasm...)

    George II

    (67,782 posts)
    57. Even if it was five minutes or ten minutes, that manager wasn't aware of Starbucks' policy....
    Thu Apr 19, 2018, 10:54 AM
    Apr 2018

    ....and promotion of their stores as quasi-internet cafes, where people sit for a LONG time surfing the internet.

    I told my wife about this story, and she said the last time she was at Starbuck's with her friends there was a guy at a table using his laptop and drinking DUNKIN' DONUTS coffee! DD is right across the street from them. He wasn't hassled, but he was white.

     

    oberliner

    (58,724 posts)
    69. Starbucks policy is different depending on the store location
    Thu Apr 19, 2018, 11:29 AM
    Apr 2018

    Each store is given their own discretion with regard to sitting without purchasing and the like. Stores in big cities often have restrictions that other stores do not.

    That said, there was no excuse for her actions.

    BumRushDaShow

    (129,096 posts)
    82. Problem is, none of these "policies" get posted in these Starbucks
    Thu Apr 19, 2018, 12:19 PM
    Apr 2018

    (some other types of stores post notices like - "Cash Only" or "No Solicitations" or "No Pets" and whatnot). So black people have to "guess" what the rules are because "rules" are always applied to us. But that's how we live anyway.

    And people want to know why we talk about the "1-drop" rule or "The paper bag test" or other such nonsense because THAT is what happens to us.

    Arbitrary rules get manufactured and applied because some people feel "uncomfortable" and call the cops. And the cops take their word against the customer despite the oft-used "The customer is always right" business mantra (although thankfully the Secaucus cops didn't take the bait in the LA Fitness case).

    BobTheSubgenius

    (11,564 posts)
    70. These two should end up owning their own Starbucks location.
    Thu Apr 19, 2018, 11:35 AM
    Apr 2018

    This story is unbelievable....or should be. It should be far outside anyone's experience.

    MineralMan

    (146,317 posts)
    72. That's not even time enough to figure out what to order.
    Thu Apr 19, 2018, 11:40 AM
    Apr 2018

    This was so clearly an incident of racism. Once again, I'm glad I don't patronize Starbucks at all.

    Pepsidog

    (6,254 posts)
    75. Take the damn locks off the door. Have some humanity
    Thu Apr 19, 2018, 11:55 AM
    Apr 2018

    I like Starbucks and their general corporate philosophy and having locks on the bathroom is counterintuitive to their corporate ethos. Now if someone has a need to use their bathroom even without purchasing an item what’s the big deal about allowing people who need to perform a basic human function going #1 or #2? Starbucks invites customers who are transitory so they should accommodate the public by opening their bathrooms to all. Putting locks on the bathroom sends a bad message. In so far as these gentleman in Phila are concerned, shame on the police and the store manager. Starbucks has acted responsibly by starting racial sensitivity training which is a good start. Next REMOVE THE DAMN LOCKS!!

    hunter

    (38,317 posts)
    83. Sigh. You haven't encountered the people who smash toilets and paint the walls with shit.
    Thu Apr 19, 2018, 01:25 PM
    Apr 2018

    That's another failure of our society -- how we dump people with severe mental illnesses out onto the streets.

    Another annoyance is gangsters who carve graffiti into mirrors and sinks with diamond engraving tools.

    Years ago my brother owned a small restaurant and I'd do occasional repairs there. It wasn't his policy to lock the bathroom doors so we saw everything... holes punched in the walls, paper towel dispensers forced open, toilets clogged with clothing...

    Keeping the bathrooms locked and giving a key or key code to anyone who asks is a reasonable response to vandalism.

    akbacchus_BC

    (5,704 posts)
    122. Not only that, here in Canada, one cannot use Starbucks restroom if you are
    Fri Apr 20, 2018, 06:30 AM
    Apr 2018

    not a paying customer. Same goes for Subway. No way a paying customer will vandalise the facilities!

    BumRushDaShow

    (129,096 posts)
    128. "No way a paying customer will vandalise the facilities!"
    Fri Apr 20, 2018, 10:04 AM
    Apr 2018

    And what if someone wanders in from a bar slurring drunk and orders a coffee to "sober up" and goes into the bathroom and not only pukes all over it, but rips a paper towel unit from the wall because he couldn't focus enough to pull a few towels out?

     

    EffieBlack

    (14,249 posts)
    78. The friend they were meeting told cops theyd go somewhere else, cops said No, too late
    Thu Apr 19, 2018, 12:02 PM
    Apr 2018

    and arrested them anyway.

    So there goes the “Why didn’t they just leave?” argument, too.

    Pepsidog

    (6,254 posts)
    80. These men acted with class and dignity in the face of ignorance.
    Thu Apr 19, 2018, 12:14 PM
    Apr 2018

    Shame on cops but I really think the majority of the fault lies with the store manager. What I don’t get is that Philly is majority black residents and while Rittenhouse Sq is high society area it’s not like they never seen a black person before. There are tons of black people in and around that area which begs the question, what in the hell was so scary about these two gentlemen that warranted calling the police? There are scary looking people of all races but these 2 men are in no way scary or intimidating. And this manager had to have seen many many blacks people in the store so what set her off? This incident says a lot more about this particular store manager than anything else. I think she must have a screw or two loose or watches too much Cops on Tv.

    griloco

    (832 posts)
    87. Yeah, when you frame it that way. But they did hang around
    Thu Apr 19, 2018, 04:41 PM
    Apr 2018

    for 120,000 milliseconds without buying anything....

    betsuni

    (25,537 posts)
    90. Like dog years differ from human ones, evidently racist minutes are different from regular ones.
    Thu Apr 19, 2018, 08:16 PM
    Apr 2018

    Things happen very very quickly.

    Horse with no Name

    (33,956 posts)
    104. So. Does this mean if I walk into a Starbucks
    Thu Apr 19, 2018, 09:19 PM
    Apr 2018

    And don’t have my purchase in my hand in two minutes...that I can call the cops and have the barista arrested for forcing me to loiter?

    Blue_true

    (31,261 posts)
    107. The timeline blows any claim the former manager makes out of the water.
    Thu Apr 19, 2018, 09:57 PM
    Apr 2018

    2 minutes? She had it in for them as soon as they walked in the door.

     

    EffieBlack

    (14,249 posts)
    112. A perfect illustration of why cops don't "have to" arrest people just because the manager says so
    Thu Apr 19, 2018, 10:27 PM
    Apr 2018

    akbacchus_BC

    (5,704 posts)
    121. This is so horrible. Those two guys were waiting for a friend
    Fri Apr 20, 2018, 06:21 AM
    Apr 2018

    when the asswipe starbucks degenerate called the police. Are they so scared of two black guys. The police are just as retarded like the starbucks employees.

    I shudder to think how a mom has to teach her boys to be complacent, they get an education, buy a nice car, but good ness gracious, do not drive after dark. That is something no one wants to address! Racism is well and alive after 50 years when Martin Luther King was assassinated!

    On the lighter side, how many trump supporters will reject the dollar bill with Rosa Parks picture on it?

    Latest Discussions»General Discussion»So... **TWO** GODDAMNED M...