I was disappointed in Rachel Maddow last night

[gopiscrap]

she kept on saying nice things about Barbara Bush.....just because she's dead doesn't change the republican, arrogant pig she was in life

[wasupaloopa]

1. She was not a Republican arrogant pig. You should delete your post

[CentralMass]

51. I agree with you.

[politicaljunkie41910]

81. I saw lots of ugly posts about her last night until finally I had to leave the website. The woman

lived 92 years and a lot of people want to reduce those 92 years to a few nasty soundbites which I personally never heard attributed to her, before last night. Now just like I'm sure no one here would want their entire life to be reduced to a 30 second soundbite, I think people here should give her that same courtesy. I'm a political junkie and have been since grade school and have followed all the presidents and their spouses when they were on television, regardless of party. So while I don't recall her ever coming across as mean spirited and one who would purposely say something nasty, hurtful, or denigrating, I saw many interviews over the past 24 hours of friends and reporters who said or implied that she was capable of 'speaking her mind' or 'not holding her tongue' and based on that, she sounds to me like the average person here on DU.

Also, even though I don't have many thousands of posts like many here, I've been coming to this website for a very long time. Back then, while working for the federal government, I would keep up with the breaking news and the political discussions during my lunch hour, but because we were not allowed to log in to any websites that required a User ID's and Passwords so while I could read what was going on, I never could post anything during the daytime. At the end of my workday, I went home to my three children and my husband (when he wasn't working overtime) and between cooking, laundry, cleaning and homework, that left little time for anything else. So after the kids were settled in for the night, I could catch up on the political news, but there still wasn't a lot of time for me to participate in on-line discussions. But I still read my daily local newspaper (LA Times) and I watched the national and local evening news while cleaning up late into the evening, so I regularly stayed informed on the most prominent national, state, and local news stories.

[wasupaloopa]

89. I worked for county government and could not post unless I used my phone.

[EffieBlack]

2. Wow.

Grace is a bad thing worthy of criticism?

Wow.

[LuckyCharms]

3. Yeah, why have a kind word for someone who just passed on?

[Fullduplexxx]

11. Yea Better to pretend she was something she wasnt so others dont feel bad

[LuckyCharms]

13. Let he who is without sin...

[Fullduplexxx]

15. It isnt a judgement it's who she was

[LuckyCharms]

17. Oh.

[marble falls]

14. Opps, wrong guy!

[gopiscrap]

24. because she was a nasty republican

do you remember eher words for the huricane victims at the Astrodome?

[bearsfootball516]

4. Yikes. That is not an accurate way to describe her.

[wellst0nev0ter]

28. Taking shelter in the Astrodome

worked out for the black Katrina victims, because they were underprivileged anyway.

That's her quote, look it up.

[EffieBlack]

33. Youd better hope that you never do or say anything wrong or offensive ever in your life

so that you are not adjudged to be a pig on the day you die.

[unitedwethrive]

50. Maybe people would live better lives if they knew that obituaries would be honest.

By normalizing bigots, you risk:
1) Sending a message to those who agree with these beliefs that this is a valid opinion to hold, and one that prominent people share.
2) Teaching those who do not have clearly defined beliefs that being hateful during ones life is not something that will be held against them when judging their legacy.

[byronius]

60. +1

Flat truth is not grave-dancing, and post-mortem praise is disingenuous and damaging to truth.

A mother who spurned a daughter for 'weakness' and refused to show up at her funeral (she went golfing) raised sons who actively damaged their nation for the pure pursuit of power. Her comments about Katrina were more than harmful -- they were revelatory. She finally spoke her true self after pretending to be honorable all her life.

But people get angry about flat truths. This thread is revelatory.

[mythology]

96. Except it's not flat truth. It's picking specific moments

You let your own bias mislead into thinking you have some objective truth. Someday somebody will be saying similar things about the Obamas with just as much certainty they are right.

[byronius]

97. History is built on specific moments.

And conservatives will trash every good democrat and grave-dance long into the night no matter what I say. They are the expression of primate tribalism, drenched in brutal philosophy that rests upon insect logic.

I'll remember Barbara Bush for the sting of her words about those people in New Orleans, the incredible depth of arrogance and insensitivity she displayed about fellow Americans who had just lost their homes, and who were being shot to death for being black. Those words were not an accident. They were an unironic window into her soul.

We all commit harm. Towering public figures who commit harm are written into history for it. Neville Chamberlain had a good heart and an uncommonly bright soul; his single moment of deep foolishness defines him forever.

I don't hate Barbara Bush. But I've spent much of my adult life bearing the consequences of her actions and words.

Donald Trump's calvacade of moments will carry a body count far beyond hers. When he passes shall we praise him lovingly?

[gopiscrap]

67. exactly

[obnoxiousdrunk]

63. She wasn't perfect

like us DU'ers.

[gopiscrap]

66. exactly

[kentuck]

5. When we lose all our humanity....

...then, we can become Republicans.

[Fullduplexxx]

12. Holy hyperbole batman .. Recognizing her for what she was is not losing our humanity

[gopiscrap]

68. thank you

[leftynyc]

86. Focusing on the positive

things in her life - the 73 year marriage, her children and their children, her commitment to literacy - the day after she dies is the DECENT thing to do. I certainly hope people don't focus on my mistakes when my family is looking for comfort. Good for Rachel. Ms. Bush will have karma to answer to for the rest.

[Ferrets are Cool]

6. I wasn't disappointed...however

I wish she had not been so effluent with her praise. Ok, I guess I was disappointed.

[byronius]

7. Grave-dancing is wrong in all cases, but I have to agree -- she was an awful human being.

Tangentially responsible for an enormous tide of human suffering.

Rachel should just have said nothing at all, or merely reported on it.

[gopiscrap]

25. I agree...I felt that she should have just reported that she died and (with a smile on her face)

and then left it that

[RhodeIslandOne]

42. Ugh

I mean if only the world were as creepy as you, right?

[John Fante]

49. Get the hate out of your heart. It's not good for you.

[democrank]

9. I'm ashamed of what you wrote.

[Demsrule86]

23. I have to agree.

[EffieBlack]

34. This is disgusting

[Demsrule86]

54. Yep...no person is all bad or all good...she was pro-choice and pro LGBTQ she loved

her husband and her kids...She reminds me of my Mom who we also called the enforcer or sgt Mom or on some occasions. Karate tongue!

[EffieBlack]

75. I wonder how many of the people calling our former First Lady a pig, a harpie and worse

were lecturing us a few weeks ago about the need to tiptoe around Trump supporters, to tell the truth about them because, you know, they might get offended.

[Demsrule86]

87. Same people I think...they only say such things because Sen. Sanders says we have to reach out to

Trump voters.

[bdamomma]

10. Don't speak

ill of the dead. She's gone.....she had her downfalls.

[BlueTsunami2018]

37. I never understood this reasoning.

You can say anything you want about a person who’s alive but the second they kick the bucket they become untouchable and deserve respect?

An asshole is an asshole. Except dead they can’t hurt anyone anymore.

[gopiscrap]

72. yup, I agree

[smirkymonkey]

95. I haven't said anything negative about her since her death, but don't expect me to hold my tongue

when Trump kicks the bucket. I will be cheering in the streets.

[hlthe2b]

18. I challenge you to read a comprehensive unbiased review of her life, both good and bad and

apply a more balanced assessment to her life. I'd bet money you'd find some things that surprise you. I know I did several years ago under a similar challenge. Yes I remember her entitled clueless comments, especially after Katrina, but that is not all there is to discuss.


Now when Cheney shuffles off his mortal coil, you'll hear not a peep from me, no matter what you say.

[gopiscrap]

26. just by bein g a republican is enough to

totally write her off to me

[bdamomma]

40. Yea, Cheney

Rumsfeld and the rest of the Bush regime. I will not say a word either.

[Mike Nelson]

19. Somewhat agree...

...I tuned out, but I don't hold it against Rachel for revealing she was saddened by Barbara Bush's death. The First Lady was not one of my favorites... still, she was pro-choice and for marriage equality. She did not think highly of the Donald. I'd give Rachel a pass on this...

[GWC58]

41. I didnt watch MSNBC last night.

Instead I watched some movies on Firestick. I knew it was going to be praise Barbara Bush Night, so I thought “I’ll pass.” Nothing against the onetime First Lady, either. I will say many Texans, suffering from chronic pain, PTSD, etc., etc. could have had some of their suffering elevated with mmj. I can remember a commercial with Mrs Bush talking about the subject. She said something like “there’s some that believe marijuana is medicine. It is not! It’s a dangerous, addictive gateway drug.”

[marble falls]

20. What elective office did she hold? What real effect on national poilcy did she have, she certainly..

wansn't as involved with the Presidency as much as say, Nancy Reagan or Hillary Clinton.

Really, that was over the top, at least edit your OP.

[stillcool]

21. I'm disappointed..

that I clicked on this post. You must be disappointed by life an awful lot.

[Demsrule86]

22. I don't agree with that. I liked Barbara Bush. Most people are not all good or bad.

She did much for literacy and helped make aids people less radioactive (such hysteria) by visiting aids hospitals and hugging babies and others.

[Kirk Lover]

29. Nope Barbara said some stupid shit from time to time so she was a bad person through and through.

I'm so glad everybody is so damn perfect around here too. I mean pa lease.

[EffieBlack]

35. Given their standard, half the people on DU will be eulogized as pigs when they die

[Demsrule86]

58. haha...I would hate for some of my comments to be made public!

[gopiscrap]

73. the difference being that you are not famous

and you and your spouse don't set the tone of the nation

[Demsrule86]

88. Oh please. She was a good first lady in my opinion...worked in literacy and helped with the aids

crisis to by visiting the hospitals and stemming the hysteria. I think the posts I have read here calling her names are disgraceful. What is she Jack the Ripper?

[gopiscrap]

92. no but she was a republican and as far as I am concerned

if you're a republican, you're scum of the earth...I have inlaws who are gop we have not spoken to them in 30 years and they have never met their grandchildren

[Kirk Lover]

27. I was waiting for this post. Lawrence too was very kind...there were more positive things to

cover than bad. Y'all acting like she was the next coming of Satan...keep shit in perspective....geesh.

[Ilsa]

30. I think there has been a lot of stomach-turning excessive and

unbelievable praise of BPB in the last 24 hours.

That being said, when it cranks up on tv, I just change the channel. A family has lost its mom and wife. There is no need for me to praise or diss the woman. She cannot defend herself and there is nothing in the past that can be changed.

[bdamomma]

43. That's correct

about not being able to defend herself, she was a hard ass woman, but she doesn't even come close to Rose Kennedy.

[Ilsa]

53. ITA. Not anywhere close to RK. nt

[Exultant Democracy]

31. Compassion isn't earned it is a gift we give ourselves .

Not to mention a bedrock of any liberal/progressive philosophy I can think of. She is a grandma, my grandmothers had issues too and I would still give anything to hug either of them again. When an actual war criminal dies that is different story but it take nothing from us to act classy in the instance of this particular woman's death.

[peggysue2]

32. Could we please stop bashing Barbara Bush?

It's unseemly and stoops to the lowest common denominator. I hated when Republicans did this after Ted Kennedy died. Let the dead rest in peace.

Whether you liked her or not, Barbara Bush was a historical figure, a First Lady and the mother of a President of the United States. She shares that with only one other--Abigail Adams.

I expected this site to be better than this. It really diminishes the quality of posting at DU to read this sort of on-going ugliness.

[EffieBlack]

36. This place is becoming an ugly cesspool.

It’s embarrassing.

[peggysue2]

39. I agree, Effie

It's getting pretty putrid.

[grantcart]

45. there has always been this element here Effie. I am sure RM wouldn't miss this listener.

[bdamomma]

46. Yea,

we are getting off on a bad tangent here. We have other things to focus on.

[bdamomma]

48. .............

[gopiscrap]

70. actually as Democrats we shouldn't ever be praising any repuke

we lose elections because we let ourselves be demonized with out fighting back...we need to be as ugly as the repukes, it's only when we win that we can set the agenda, otherwise we're fucked

[peggysue2]

74. Never said anyone was required to praise Barbara Bush

If you don't like her fine. But why relentlessly bash someone once they're dead? Unless they're some heinous criminal. Which Barbara Bush was not. The whole thing is just petty and in poor taste. And it certainly has nothing to do with winning elections. If anything, it just makes Dems and this site look bad, as in really bad. And it's not just your post. I've read at least a half dozen in the last 24 hours.

Besides, there's plenty of ugly sitting in the White House, someone who actually has the power to make a lot of lives miserable and is threatening our national security. Hating on a dead person, someone who never held office herself is simply counterproductive and unseemly.

[meadowlander]

77. Yes, the loss of a truly beautiful mind

Being married to someone famous and giving birth to someone famous isn’t an actual accomplishment.

I’ve kept my mouth shut to date since I don’t see the point of going after someone like Barbara Bush but let’s not pretend she was a saint just because she’s dead either.

[peggysue2]

80. LOL!!

Whoever said she was a saint? Frankly, I've have yet to meet one. I also never said being married to a president and being the mother of a president was an 'accomplishment.' But it is a distinction shared by only one other American woman.

We do agree on this, however: I also don't see the point of going after someone like Barbara Bush. It's tasteless, pointless. Better to vent our spleen on the real ugly, the one sitting in the White House.

[Raine]

38. Disappointed in Rachel because she has class

that's sad.

[MrScorpio]

44. You know, sometimes it's best to say nothing at all...

[elleng]

62. Yes, I'm encouraged that's the way to go,

in this regard.

[Enoki33]

64. Correct. Leave the lack of humanity to the tRump supporters.

[NCTraveler]

47. Im a pig.

Haven’t been a saint.

Thanks for reminding me.

[S.E. TN Liberal]

52. Michelle Obama said it well...

"When they go low, we go high.

Rachel Maddow is a decent person who chooses to go high.

[CentralMass]

78. The Obama's condolences to the Bush family

http://time.com/5244260/barbara-bush-death-obamas-condolences/

"We’ll always be grateful to Mrs. Bush for the generosity she showed to us throughout our time in the White House but we’re even more grateful for the way she lived her life — as a testament to the fact that public service is an important and noble calling; as an example of the humility and decency that reflects the very best of the American spirit.”

“She’ll be remembered for passing those American values on to her children, her grandchildren, her great-grandchildren — and to the countless citizens whom she and George inspired to become ‘points of light’ in service to others.”

[CentralMass]

55. Feel better ?

[JI7]

56. She voted for Hillary Clinton, she was prochoice

[still_one]

57. Are you getting your talking points from Roger Stone?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

59. I did not care much for Mrs. Bush, or, for that matter, for the rest of that family.

But I will not dance on her grave or call her a pig or evil, because she was not. Very few people are truly evil; most are capable of acts of decency and love. Barbara Bush was obviously liked and even loved by many people, and she clearly loved her family. She also did some affirmative good by promoting literacy while she was FL. IMHO, anyone who is capable of love and has been loved is not evil. While it's true that she said some things that were, to put it mildly, elitist and pretty deplorable, those bad things she said are not the sum total of her life. I had no problem with Rachel Maddow and other liberals saying nice things about her because there were aspects of her life that justified those nice things.

When Donald Trump goes, however, I might be tempted to dance on his grave, at least figuratively, because Trump shows no signs of being able to love, or empathize, or care about anyone but himself. He's a sociopath and I don't think it's unfair to say that he really is one of those rare evil people. If anyone outside his family said nice things about him if he died, I'd think she'd lost her mind. Barbara Bush is not like Trump.

[Dreamer Tatum]

61. I would worry that DU is becoming a flat out nasty place, but

you're over the top in everything you ever say, so no one should take you seriously anyway.

[Docreed2003]

65. Would we also be disappointed in the Clinton's ??

Both Hillary and Bill have posted heartfelt messages about Barbara Bush on Twitter. Would we also condemn them for their empathetic words? No, we wouldn't, nor should we.

[Iggo]

69. "...she kept on saying nice things about Barbara Bush.....just because she's dead..."

Read that over and over until it clicks.

[gopiscrap]

71. exactly

[Inkfreak]

85. ..guess it didnt click. keep trying.

[Gothmog]

76. I disagree

Attacking the dead is poor form

[gopiscrap]

93. so it would have been ok if I critized

her a week ago?

[Lil Missy]

79. Rachel did the appropriate thing. Otherwise she would be petty.

[diane in sf]

82. She was arrogant and raised a pack of criminals. She also supported Planned Parenthood

Like most humans she was a mixed bag of good and evil.

[Snackshack]

83. Mrs. Bushs

Comment about not wanting to waste her beautiful mind on thinking about body bags and the deaths of soldiers in Desert Storm did not win her any fans. RM did fawn a bit much on her but that’s her prerogative, no body is perfect.

R.I.P. Mrs. Bush.

[MFM008]

84. BB could get very prickly

I think when criticism hit her family.
So do a lot of people.

[disillusioned73]

90. With all the Bush..

protectionists out enForce.. makes on wonder what will be said when the Trumpster goes 6 ft under around here...

[LanternWaste]

91. I absolutely get reserving the right to hold negative opinions about someone.

I absolutely get reserving the right to hold negative opinions about someone.

What I don't get is criticizing someone else simply because they don't.

[alarimer]

94. People are clutching their pearls over what is said about Barbara Bush

And then criticizing others for merely pointing out the truth. She was a fairly horrible person (maybe not as horrible as the rest of her family but still).

Many of the pearl-clutchers also routinely post lies about Bernie Sanders and others. I find that quite interesting.